What's 'wrong' with Catholicism (dare we try to discuss without debate?)

[Anne34]

I know a lot of Protestant people that have been married in a Catholic church. (Both my brother and sister married people from other religions.) THey can get married in the church, but they usually don't have communion -- mass is exactly the same except for that. I also think it depends on the priest -- ours is very progressive.

 

[ead79]

I apologize for not using the correct wording. No offense intended. I just believe very differently about the need for priests in terms of confession than the Catholic church. I was just giving an example of why I choose a different denomination (in response to the OP’s question). My interpretation of the Scripture that Jenny quoted is very different from the Catholic church’s interpretation.

This has been a great discussion.

 

[JennyMominRI]

I). My interpretation of the Scripture that Jenny quoted is very different from the Catholic church’s interpretation.

.

I figured it would be

 

[bananiem]

This is my thought on confession- We have been told since we were small that "God is everywhere." (And people wonder why Catholics are guilt-ridden. ) So my thoughts are why can't I just have a heart-to-heart with God every night? Why do I have to tell somebody else first?
Yes, I've heard it all from the priest, deacon and anybody else I've told this to.

 

[scubamouse]

This is my thought on confession- We have been told since we were small that "God is everywhere." (And people wonder why Catholics are guilt-ridden. ) So my thoughts are why can't I just have a heart-to-heart with God every night? Why do I have to tell somebody else first?
Yes, I've heard it all from the priest, deacon and anybody else I've told this too.

my blasphemous ex-Catholic view of this is that priests live vicariously through parishoners

 

[golfgal]

my blasphemous ex-Catholic view of this is that priests live vicariously through parishoners

 

[Buckalew11]

This is my thought on confession- We have been told since we were small that "God is everywhere." (And people wonder why Catholics are guilt-ridden. ) So my thoughts are why can't I just have a heart-to-heart with God every night? Why do I have to tell somebody else first?
Yes, I've heard it all from the priest, deacon and anybody else I've told this to.

This is what I believe also. I don't believe you have to go to a priest to confess. I don't think that neccessarily makes Catholics "wrong" or anything because they do because I think it is fine if you want to share your sins with someone else. But I don't want him to think he has to be the one to forgive me or say "you're forgiven" -- that is between me and God. The reason I believe the way I do is because the Bible tells us that Jesus became our High Priest so we don't have to go through a human now.

I don't think Catholics are "unChristian" people but I do know some people who do believe that. If they are all about the Church itself and not about God and Christ I believe you know it pretty quickly when you talk with them.

Communion is probably my biggest obstacle with Catholicism.

And really, the early church after Christ was hardly like any churches today. We're all fancy-shamcy and rich within our churches of all kinds today. Jesus christ didn't even have a building.

 

[sodaseller]

Two things I would add to Jenny's excellent work. First, I think one concept that is not sufficiently fleshed out in the excerpt is Apostolic Succession - the concept that Holy Orders, the Ordained, are true successors to the Apostles that Christ originally commissioned to lead his Church through an unbroken line of ordinations through the laying on of hands. When you confess to a priest, you are not confessing to that priest as human, but in his role in personam Christ, as Christ's representative on Earth Priests do not absolve you - they are merely representatives and instruments of Christ's power as with any sacrament. As all believers are Baptized in his name, the pastor acts in the name of the Divine, not with any personal power of his/her own. I appreciate that it is hard to get into the issue of apostolic succession as that gets into all that "one true Church" stuff, which I appreciate can sound offensive, but please understand that Catholics do not believe that the priest has any individual power of his own to forgive, merely that the he, through ordination, is specially charged to act in Christ's place. But his power is no more than your minister's power when you were baptized.

Regarding the role of tradition vs. scripture. I am firm believer that Luther's reforms were much needed, as clerical abuses were widespread and Bishops and priests were justifying all manner of misdeed in the name of their authority, justifying unjustifiable acts that the laity were powerless to counter both as function of hierarchy and ignorance as to the Word. In that context, Luther's reliance on Scripture made great sense, and the insistence that the Laity learn scripture was also a true reform. But plainly Christ founded a Church and invested apostles with the power to act in His name. Also, a key point to recall with respect to the Bible vs.. hierarchal authority debate is that is was that hierarchy that choose the Bible. It was a group of Bishops that got together and decided what books were "official" (canonical) and which weren't (heretical or quasi-heretical). If you trust the Bishops and the earthly authors to act through the Holy Spirit in that instance, why is it so hard to believe that they still can, albeit in select instances

 

[tmt martins]

Just remember what BIBLE stands for

B asic
I nstuctions
B efore
L eaving
E arth

It was written by humans and interpided by many I'm Catholic / I believe in GOD and CHRIST so I'm Christian .I don't go to church I do on a daily basis what I think GOD wants of me and when I mess up I ask for his forgiveness right there and then.
My DW ( converted never had religon in her life)& DD go to church every week ( DD must until 18 ) to learn about god.Just because you are of a faith you don't have to agree with everything ,just because your an American doesn't mean you have to agree with everything.
Live and let live I know GOD wouldn't want HATE under any condition .This is the major difference with some other religons that promote HATE.

 

[jodifla]

Well, there are more Catholics in the US then any other denomination, do you feel you have to follow the teachings of the Catholic church? I guess I don't agree with your thinking here. Maybe you could give some specific examples to make your point more clear. Which countries are you talking about and what political power are they using in those countries?

Ireland is the prime example, where the church has had a stranglehold on the country's laws forever. For example, divorce is illegal there, as is abortion (so everyone goes to England for their abortions). As Jenny said, Spain is rolling back some of the Catholic laws as the church's influence there wains.

This article explains...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A42739-2005Apr10.html

The Church is VERY active in supporting laws that restrict everyone in the country to its point of view...they lobby against assisted reproduction, divorce, birth control for women. And in countries that are poorer, like Latin America and Africa, they have more influence.

See this article:
http://www.feminist.org/news/newsbyte/uswirestory.asp?id=6479

http://health.dailynewscentral.com/content/view/0001038/60/

http://www.population-security.org/swom-97-04.htm

Really, it goes on and on and on and on.

 

[beattyfamily]

Ireland is the prime example, where the church has had a stranglehold on the country's laws forever. For example, divorce is illegal there, as is abortion (so everyone goes to England for their abortions).

Actually, divorce has been legal in Ireland since February 1997 and abortion is legal only IF there is a risk to the life of the mother, but it is rare and it's still illegal in all other respects but it's not just Catholics trying to keep it illegal, it's also some Protestant church leaders and a pro-life lobby group called the Pro-Life Amendment Campaign.

 

[AnaheimGirl]

But if you just happen to be a citizen in a Catholic dominated country, you shouldn't have to follow the edicts of a religion in which you do not believe.

I completely agree, but does this happen with Catholicism more so than other religions? Aren't many Muslim countries even stricter about all inhabitants following Muslim law? Even in the U.S., some churches wield political power, although likely not to the same extent, I don't know, I'm not that up on the subject.

 

[rockin_rep]

In response to the OP’s question, it’s not so much what is “wrong” with the Catholic church as why I personally choose to belong to a different Christian denomination. I don’t like the term “wrong.”

I have a problem with the reliance on tradition. I believe that the Bible contains what we need to know to have a relationship with God.

For example, I do not personally believe in confession to a priest. I believe that Jesus is the High Priest, and that His coming negated our need for an intermediary between us and God (Jesus is the intermediary in my belief).

Very well said, Elizabeth. My thoughts exactly.

Its not that i think it's *wrong* (and i don't like that word either!) but my faith is based on my personal *relationship* with Christ and not on *religion* (rules and rites etc).

I was raised by catholic and lutheran parents so i got plenty of *religion* growing up, which was a good foundation i guess, and then i met the Saviour and realized all i needed was a personal *relationship* with Him!

 

[6_Time_Momma]

I've always learned that the couple can get married in the Catholic Church, just that they can't have a full Mass.

A friend of mine from HS went through this -- she married a non-Catholic and their wedding (in her parish's church) simply ended after the marriage vows, with no Communion.

We had a full Mass when we married.

 

[6_Time_Momma]

In answer to the OP, I don't feel anything is wrong with Catholicism (obviously), but I would venture to guess that a fair share of "ill" feelings towards the Church come from misunderstandings about many of the Church teachings, ie we worship Mary, pray to idols, make priests like God, etc.

And, unfortunatley, many people have angry feelings regarding the sex abuse scandals.

Have I mentioned lately that I love my faith?

 

[goofygirl]

I've seen a lot of posts that I don't understand on the subject of Catholicism. Why is there so much animosity toward the religion from other Christians?

FTR - I was raised Catholic but no longer practice. We attend another Christian Church but they are not hostile to the Catholic Church.

I left the Church long before the child abuse scandal and that is the thing I'm personally most angry about. But I respect that the faith has brought tremendous peace to people I love.

Think we can do this without fighting?

Well, I think people of all faiths and even no faith are talking both bad and good about the RCC lately because the RCC has been in the news a lot. 2005 was a busy year for the RCC: sex scandals, the popularity of the DaVinci Code (and Opus Dei, a branch of the RCC, was thrust into the negative spotlight as a result of that book), and of course there was a death and election of a pope.

What's wrong with the RCC? Well, it just seems so out of date. The catechisms regarding birth control, no women in the priesthood, abortion, euthanasia, sex outside of marriage and homosexuality are just not fitting in well with today's world, hence the drop in membership and seminary students. The rules certainly do not coincide with my life choices, so you won't see me converting any time soon.

But I do recognize that without those rules, they would not be the RCC!

I respect a lot about Catholicsm: I like the saints, I like the idea of praying to a woman, or for intercession (to Mary, and the other female saints), Sorry, 6TimeMomma if I'm not saying this right.... I like the idea of confessing your sins, I think saying the Rosary and hearing Gregorian chants are so relaxing and awesome. I admire Mother Teresa for her good works, and Pope John Paul II for recognizing that the Jews are "elder brothers" who should be respected. Pope Benedict has echoed this sentiment too.

 

[Disney Doll]

Think we can do this without fighting?

No I do not.

I happen to be Catholic, so I don't think there's anything wrong with the faith itself. I think some of the leaders have been less-than-stellar and made huge mistakes, behaved badly and even criminally.

But when I go to Mass, I try to remember that faith is about God and not the humans here on earth who run the show.

 

[Disney Doll]

Speaking to the general subject of the thread, I find these boards very hospitable to Catholicism. There are large number of practicing Catholics (the exchanges during the Conclave were enjoyable and edifying), and nearly all non-Catholics on the boards are very respectful - there's just one provocateur who thrives on *******, There are some very knowledgeable Catholics (6 Time Momma, Lisa loves Pooh, septbride2002 - sure I am forgetting some) who add a lot. I have been on other boards that were much less welcoming and very hostile

Really? You find this board hospitable toward Catholics???

That's amazing, because I find just the opposite.

Amazing how different 2 people's perceptions can be, isn't it?

 

[Disney Doll]

That's another good point. I remember when I was looking into wedding options, I discovered that we wouldn't be able to get married in a Catholic church (not that I really wanted a church wedding) because I'm Protestant! It kinda made me feel dirty, like I"m not good enough....

I don't think it's only Catholics who have that kind of restriction on wedding ceremonies, though.

I am amazed at that because I went to a wedding a few years back where the groom was not Catholic and the couple got married in my parish church.

 

[Disney Doll]

I was raised by an Episcopalian and a Catholic which are very similar. My early years were mostly at the Episcopalian church because my Dad hadn't gotten over the indoctrination of 1950's Catholic schooling (his words, not mine). In high school I started going to the Catholic church because Saturday night was easier than Sunday morning for a teenager. That continued into college where there was a wonderful Friar. Now I'm a mom of three and have decided to raise them Episcopalian.

I love Catholicism, but I can't take the rules that come with it. Episcopalianish has rules also, but I don't find them as "in your face".

The Catholic stance on birth control is ridiculous, the idea that one man is infallible is hard for me to believe, and the fact that my dad and step-mother can't be buried in a Catholic cemetary unless my dad gets an annullment really ticks me off. I also grew to dislike confession because I found that it was simply cleaning the slate for the week and going back to the old ways for many people.

Most of my friends are Catholic and they don't believe in much of the Catholic doctrine either. They tell me "just ignore it". I'd love to but how can I teach my kids to believe in something but not really?

Maybe it's not so much the religion as it is the leaders of the Church that bother me. Don't get me wrong, I had great admiration for Pope John Paul II - we should all live like that. I also love Catholic Charities and a small organization near me that houses pregnant girls who don't want to get abortions.

Yet, the church secretary and the Deacon who told me the Catholic church wouldn't recognize my marriage if I didn't get married there (who BTW, left his wife and 5 daughters for another woman) is just one example of the hypocracy I loathe.

I don't think there's anything wrong with the theology of Catholicism. I would really like to go back to that church. But I can't. They would have to change their stance on birth control and divorce first for me to consider.

That's just my opinion. I hope I haven't offended anyone, but that's just my "crisis". For the record, I never heard the "catholics are christians" thing.

But again, you let the "people" separate you from the religion. There is a difference.