What Would You Do? (Fender Bender) Update Post #133

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Lol,OP did the right thing when she hit it. Was told no don’t worry about it.
The person who contacts her 2 MONTHS later and won’t give her an itemized bill ( keep in mind he didn’t contact her before wirk was started) he is the one who is sketchy.

I think we all agree it's likely not the most stand up people given how dodgy they've been acting about paperwork which means their story could be made up completely are they are inflating the amount or they don't take detailed invoices but there's a smidgen of truth to tvguy's comments.

You really can't trust to say "don't worry about it". People should also look to see if their insurance companies explicitly tell you the insured to not admit fault which is designed to protect you. Most of the companies I've been with on my ID card says this. Presently I'm with Progressive and this is what my ID says


Now for my state police notification is mandatory to be called if there's xyz conditions of which case for the OP it wouldn't have been required had it happened in my state. And like I said earlier in my state it's required to exchange far more information that the OP gave.

Sometimes it falls to what your duties are after an incident which depend on state law (really everyone should be looking this stuff up you may be surprised), sometimes it's unknown damage at the time of the incident found later on (which doesn't necessarily preclude someone from seeking reimbursement 2 months down the road), and sometimes they are just hoping to get more out of you than is really necessary (and it may not even be necessary at all if the damage was there before and not increased in severity due to the incident).

However, just because in the moment they said don't worry about it and played it off, contacted back 2 months later does not mean there isn't legal responsibilities or insurance responsibilities that could fall on the OP. Not at least by the virtue of it, depends on any applicable laws and as far as court stuff if it's anything I've learned over time on court stuff people file for the tiniest thing, for some it really is worth their time, who knows why though.

 

[EACarlson]

Well, the legal burden is on the OP unfortunately.

Why would the legal burden be on the OP? The legal burden is on the party bringing the claim.

Not pointless because in small claims court if the OP is found liable, OP will have to pay the trailer people's legal costs.
Again, I can't speak to how legitimate a $900 repair is, but I can't believe how unethical folks are here suggesting OP just ignore a situation that OP is responsible for.

If OP if found liable, they MAY be held liable for attorney's cost for the other side. In practice, at least in my state, you would only get those awarded if the losing party was egregious in some respect.
I believe the OP is acting ethically in this situation, they didn't drive away, they admitted fault. I believe the other party is behaving unethically by not discussing this matter until they were seeking payment, what seems to me to be an absurdly long time after the incident. I also find it interesting that they are seeking $900, in my state and the state I lived in previously, a police report is required for anything over $1,000.

 

[kymom99]

Why would the legal burden be on the OP? The legal burden is on the party bringing the claim.

If OP if found liable, they MAY be held liable for attorney's cost for the other side. In practice, at least in my state, you would only get those awarded if the losing party was egregious in some respect.
I believe the OP is acting ethically in this situation, they didn't drive away, they admitted fault. I believe the other party is behaving unethically by not discussing this matter until they were seeking payment, what seems to me to be an absurdly long time after the incident. I also find it interesting that they are seeking $900, in my state and the state I lived in previously, a police report is required for anything over $1,000.

I thought the amount might have some significance too

 

[SandyinMonterey]

Many years ago, I "tapped" the back end of the car in front of me." There was a lot of traffic, really just coasting if that. No damage to either car, not even a scratch. I was young , scared, didn't know what to do. Exchanged information and left. Didn't wait for police or file a report at the time. But after speaking to my parents telling them what happened, I went to the police station the next day and filed a report. About a month later the man called, I forgot exactly what he said but I knew along the lines that he's looking for some compensation. I immediately told him I filed a police report and he hung up on me. Never heard from him again.

 

[Pink Partridge]

Small Update:

I have decided I am done speaking over the phone with these people. I want a paper trail.

I sent a note to the email address listed on the invoice with the subject Invoice *******

It was short and sweet. Explaining that I won't pay without an itemized bill.

It's Sunday, so I doubt I will hear back today.

Will keep you all posted.

 

[tvguy]

Small Update:

I have decided I am done speaking over the phone with these people. I want a paper trail.

I sent a note to the email address listed on the invoice with the subject Invoice *******

It was short and sweet. Explaining that I won't pay without an itemized bill.

It's Sunday, so I doubt I will hear back today.

Will keep you all posted.

Perfectly reasonable.

 

[tvguy]

Why would the legal burden be on the OP? The legal burden is on the party bringing the claim.

If OP if found liable, they MAY be held liable for attorney's cost for the other side. In practice, at least in my state, you would only get those awarded if the losing party was egregious in some respect.
I believe the OP is acting ethically in this situation, they didn't drive away, they admitted fault. I believe the other party is behaving unethically by not discussing this matter until they were seeking payment, what seems to me to be an absurdly long time after the incident. I also find it interesting that they are seeking $900, in my state and the state I lived in previously, a police report is required for anything over $1,000.

The OP has the burden of proof because their actions created the situation. They have admitted guilt. Court costs are normally awarded to a winning Plaintiff.
From the latest post from OP they are moving forward requesting a breakdown of the costs. That is entirely reasonable and responsible. They may not owe the victim $900, but they DO owe they money for damages.
And while I did a very casual search on reporting accidents to your insurance, not reporting a potential claim situation to your insurance appears to be a violation of almost every insurance companies policies and can lead to your policy being canceled.

 

[mylilnikita]

Small Update:

I have decided I am done speaking over the phone with these people. I want a paper trail.

I sent a note to the email address listed on the invoice with the subject Invoice *******

It was short and sweet. Explaining that I won't pay without an itemized bill.

It's Sunday, so I doubt I will hear back today.

Will keep you all posted.

You might want to add an extra email asking for a pic of the new parts on the trailer since you can compare any new work done .

 

[sam_gordon]

Small Update:

I have decided I am done speaking over the phone with these people. I want a paper trail.

I sent a note to the email address listed on the invoice with the subject Invoice *******

It was short and sweet. Explaining that I won't pay without an itemized bill.

It's Sunday, so I doubt I will hear back today.

Will keep you all posted.

I hope you didn't paint yourself into a corner. If a reasonable person can read your email as "If I get an itemized bill, I'll pay", they could easily give you a bill that says "Parts: $20, labor: $880".

The OP has the burden of proof because their actions created the situation. They have admitted guilt. Court costs are normally awarded to a winning Plaintiff.
From the latest post from OP they are moving forward requesting a breakdown of the costs. That is entirely reasonable and responsible. They may not owe the victim $900, but they DO owe they money for damages.
And while I did a very casual search on reporting accidents to your insurance, not reporting a potential claim situation to your insurance appears to be a violation of almost every insurance companies policies and can lead to your policy being canceled.

They VERBALLY admitted guilt. Just like the workers VERBALLY said "don't worry about it". So if this went to court, you're still down to a "he said/she said" scenario. And I believe the burden of proof is on the person filing the claim. So the company would have to A) prove the OP caused the damage B) that the damages actually cost $900.

Another thing to think about (playing devils advocate)... I *THINK* the OP would be on the hook for as long as the trailer is out of service. At an event, one of my company's workers broke a piece of equipment that belonged to the site. Not only do we have to replace that equipment, but we also have to pay for rental of another piece of equipment while waiting on the new one to ship. So how much of the $900 is rental of another trailer (assuming it can be proven that the trailer couldn't be used while waiting on it to be fixed)?

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

So if this went to court, you're still down to a "he said/she said" scenario.

The OP would be lying if they went to court and said they didn't admit guilt it doesn't fall under he said/she said. It's precisely why, again, people need to look at their insurance ID cards and policies. Many companies expressedly tell you not to admit guilt and that is before the police are called but is still if the police are there. You say what happened but do not say "It's my fault" or some variation. Insurance companies tell you this, again, to protect you.

 

[Imzadi]

You might want to add an extra email asking for a pic of the new parts on the trailer since you can compare any new work done .

AND the receipt from the repair shop with full name, phone & address, or place they bought the new part from. And tell them to include their full name, address, phone number, and where the trailer is located now, as your insurance company needs this info when they send out an inspector to assess the changes to the trailer and when and where the repair was done. Mention you hope they kept the old rod to show it was indeed damaged and changed.

OP, the more you sound like you have your ducks in a row, and are going to have your insurance company investigate this, the less likely you may hear from them if they are simply trying to scam you.

 

[Mysterian]

The OP would be lying if they went to court and said they didn't admit guilt it doesn't fall under he said/she said. It's precisely why, again, people need to look at their insurance ID cards and policies. Many companies expressedly tell you not to admit guilt and that is before the police are called but is still if the police are there. You say what happened but do not say "It's my fault" or some variation. Insurance companies tell you this, again, to protect you.

Yet the police were never called, so there is zero police documentation of this incident. Trailer guys have no substantial evidence to demand compensation, especially two months later. There is no documentation that the OP even admitted guilt.

I’m not saying the OP should never go to the insurance company, I just don’t see how a claim can be successfully processed without proper documentation.

I see people keep carping on about the “OP’s responsibility“, while glossing over the trailer guy’s responsibility as well. When I got hit by a truck, I still had to provide a police report to my insurance. The other guy didn’t even have insurance. I couldn’t make a claim without that report. I also provided the receipt from the towing company. I wasn’t at fault, and yet I had responsibility to provide proof.

What do the trailer guys have to give to the OP that she can use to file?

I believe the OP had their heart in the right place from day one, but they are dealing with people who are trying to take advantage.

 

[tvguy]

I hope you didn't paint yourself into a corner. If a reasonable person can read your email as "If I get an itemized bill, I'll pay", they could easily give you a bill that says "Parts: $20, labor: $880".

They VERBALLY admitted guilt. Just like the workers VERBALLY said "don't worry about it". So if this went to court, you're still down to a "he said/she said" scenario. And I believe the burden of proof is on the person filing the claim. So the company would have to A) prove the OP caused the damage B) that the damages actually cost $900.

Another thing to think about (playing devils advocate)... I *THINK* the OP would be on the hook for as long as the trailer is out of service. At an event, one of my company's workers broke a piece of equipment that belonged to the site. Not only do we have to replace that equipment, but we also have to pay for rental of another piece of equipment while waiting on the new one to ship. So how much of the $900 is rental of another trailer (assuming it can be proven that the trailer couldn't be used while waiting on it to be fixed)?

Come on. OP is responsible for the damage. That isn't an issue. At issue is what it cost to repair. Not reporting it to their insurance company is another issue too. The victim could file a report with DMV, and in most states DMV requires you to have proof of insurance on file with them, so DMV will provide OPs insurance information to the victim. Then the victim has to explain why they didn't report it to the insurance.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Yet the police were never called, so there is zero police documentation of this incident. Trailer guys have no substantial evidence to demand compensation, especially two months later. There is no documentation that the OP even admitted guilt.

I’m not saying the OP should never go to the insurance company, I just don’t see how a claim can be successfully processed without proper documentation.

I see people keep carping on about the “OP’s responsibility“, while glossing over the trailer guy’s responsibility as well. When I got hit by a truck, I still had to provide a police report to my insurance. The other guy didn’t even have insurance. I couldn’t make a claim without that report. I also provided the receipt from the towing company. I wasn’t at fault, and yet I had responsibility to provide proof.

What do the trailer guys have to give to the OP that she can use to file?

I believe the OP had their heart in the right place from day one, but they are dealing with people who are trying to take advantage.

If it were me I would call the police because that's how I am but in my state that's not legally required given the situation the OP has given as it doesn't meet the requirements, I don't know what is the legal requirements for the OP's state.

A police report isn't required for a claim to be filed or investigated by your insurance company in terms of a blanket statement, it's helpful but not required. And police reports don't say who is at fault, that is determined by the insurance companies. It may be considered someone's responsibility according to their insurance company to call the police depending on the company and product they are under but coming from an insurance background there were plenty of claims I saw without ones and from an underwriting perspective for acceptability of new business sometimes police reports weren't available/done and that was one of the documents I would look at.

I don't necessarily disagree with your very last sentence but it's actually for that very reason I would not follow the advice of people here saying the OP needs to get more and more involved directly with these people asking for all this extra information. That may make them back off or it could make them do further harassment and could open up even more can of worms. So I would personally file a claim with my insurance company, provide them with the information I have and documents like the pictures and let them handle the rest.

As far as the time auto is a tad different but people may be surprised that on your home your insurance policy it's not uncommon to have 180 days or 365 days to file a claim. Storm damage is common to file after a time say you're getting your gutters cleaned and they notate damage, you could turn that claim in and your insurance company can look up the weather and determine if it's possible a storm 6 months ago could have caused it. For some of these reasons I'm less concerned about the time than others may be. It doesn't mean I necessarily believe the other party here just that the 2 month timeline is less red flag to me.

There doesn't have to be documentation of OP admitting guilt. A confirmation from the OP "did you admit guilt" should be met with yes, if the other party said "she told us it was her fault" it would then be corroborated by the OP. A police report isn't often going to say the words "Party A admitted guilt" it would be more like "Party A was reversing and made contact with Party B's trailer". Admitting guilt verbally is usually a no no because it can be used against you.

As far as your situation while this varies by state that is what your UM/UIM coverage is for if your state carries this coverage (subject to the restrictions of it) when you're involved in an accident with people who either do not have insurance or enough insurance. Some states allow you to sign paperwork rejecting such coverage (in return for a reduction in premium) and you'd be surprised how many times people still think the insurance company should cover them. I remember a coworker getting a call from a very distressed insured (we normally dealt with agents) because her claim was being denied. She signed rejecting of UM/UIM coverage and thus the insurance company wasn't covering her for that.

Depending on the jurisdictions the police may have their own rules. While probably not the case now in the early pandemic days it was more common for police to request non-emergent things to be walked in at a later time. I would still file a police report but it's possible in some places it's just not viewed as important enough if the issue was minor enough (as viewed by the police).

The reason people are talking about the OP's responsibility is because she can only control herself. You can't make the other party do xyz. It's quite possible if a claim is filed the insurance company would deny the other party's claim due to lack of xyz or it's possible they'll pay it and move on quickly. And while it may be a moot point the OP could have been the one to file a police report, the onus is actually both parties. It's not on just the other party here to have filed a police report. I think naturally people tend to not want to out themselves and thus may be less likely especially in a minor situation like this file a report on themselves as people might assume the injured (not physically but just ones with the more damaged property) should be the ones to get a police report for their vehicle.

 

[tvguy]

If it were me I would call the police because that's how I am but in my state that's not legally required given the situation the OP has given as it doesn't meet the requirements, I don't know what is the legal requirements for the OP's state.

A police report isn't required for a claim to be filed or investigated by your insurance company in terms of a blanket statement, it's helpful but not required. And police reports don't say who is at fault, that is determined by the insurance companies. It may be considered someone's responsibility according to their insurance company to call the police depending on the company and product they are under but coming from an insurance background there were plenty of claims I saw without ones and from an underwriting perspective for acceptability of new business sometimes police reports weren't available/done and that was one of the documents I would look at.

I don't necessarily disagree with your very last sentence but it's actually for that very reason I would not follow the advice of people here saying the OP needs to get more and more involved directly with these people asking for all this extra information. That may make them back off or it could make them do further harassment and could open up even more can of worms. So I would personally file a claim with my insurance company, provide them with the information I have and documents like the pictures and let them handle the rest.

As far as the time auto is a tad different but people may be surprised that on your home your insurance policy it's not uncommon to have 180 days or 365 days to file a claim. Storm damage is common to file after a time say you're getting your gutters cleaned and they notate damage, you could turn that claim in and your insurance company can look up the weather and determine if it's possible a storm 6 months ago could have caused it. For some of these reasons I'm less concerned about the time than others may be. It doesn't mean I necessarily believe the other party here just that the 2 month timeline is less red flag to me.

There doesn't have to be documentation of OP admitting guilt. A confirmation from the OP "did you admit guilt" should be met with yes, if the other party said "she told us it was her fault" it would then be corroborated by the OP. A police report isn't often going to say the words "Party A admitted guilt" it would be more like "Party A was reversing and made contact with Party B's trailer". Admitting guilt verbally is usually a no no because it can be used against you.

As far as your situation while this varies by state that is what your UM/UIM coverage is for if your state carries this coverage (subject to the restrictions of it) when you're involved in an accident with people who either do not have insurance or enough insurance. Some states allow you to sign paperwork rejecting such coverage (in return for a reduction in premium) and you'd be surprised how many times people still think the insurance company should cover them. I remember a coworker getting a call from a very distressed insured (we normally dealt with agents) because her claim was being denied. She signed rejecting of UM/UIM coverage and thus the insurance company wasn't covering her for that.

Depending on the jurisdictions the police may have their own rules. While probably not the case now in the early pandemic days it was more common for police to request non-emergent things to be walked in at a later time. I would still file a police report but it's possible in some places it's just not viewed as important enough if the issue was minor enough (as viewed by the police).

The reason people are talking about the OP's responsibility is because she can only control herself. You can't make the other party do xyz. It's quite possible if a claim is filed the insurance company would deny the other party's claim due to lack of xyz or it's possible they'll pay it and move on quickly. And while it may be a moot point the OP could have been the one to file a police report, the onus is actually both parties. It's not on just the other party here to have filed a police report. I think naturally people tend to not want to out themselves and thus may be less likely especially in a minor situation like this file a report on themselves as people might assume the injured (not physically but just ones with the more damaged property) should be the ones to get a police report for their vehicle.

In California, often police will not respond to a non-injury accident. They consider it a civil matter.

OP, have you thought about taking your photos to a trailer repair place and ask if they can guess what repairs would cost? It might give you an idea if the bill you were given was reasonable and that is something to give you information that you could counter offer the victim.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

In California, often police will not respond to a non-injury accident. They consider it a civil matter.

Yes I've heard that from you. But responding physically and making a police report aren't the same thing. You can (and both parties here could have) walked in and had a police report taken. And you can also do this online depending on the incident for many places. According to my city's police department "Non-Emergencies can also be reported any time of day or night, 7 days a week, by visiting the Police Department lobby". I don't think they are alone in that.

As far as responding physically most of my comments were centered on legal responsibilities after an accident by the state. I stated what I would do because I know my police department while not perfect actually cares by in large about their citizens so if I called them (either 911 or the non-emergent line) they would dispatch someone or they could recommend to just walk it in if I could. I know the same can't be said for CA police as evidenced by all your comments on them and our personal experience on them.

 

[tvguy]

Yes I've heard that from you. But responding physically and making a police report aren't the same thing. You can (and both parties here could have) walked in and had a police report taken. And you can also do this online depending on the incident for many places. According to my city's police department "Non-Emergencies can also be reported any time of day or night, 7 days a week, by visiting the Police Department lobby". I don't think they are alone in that.

As far as responding physically most of my comments were centered on legal responsibilities after an accident by the state. I stated what I would do because I know my police department while not perfect actually cares by in large about their citizens so if I called them (either 911 or the non-emergent line) they would dispatch someone or they could recommend to just walk it in if I could. I know the same can't be said for CA police as evidenced by all your comments on them and our personal experience on them.

That's called a "Counter Report". Doesn't change anything. OP is responsible for damage. The only unresolved issue is how much did that damage amount to.

 

[MICKIMINI]

Your insurance company needs to sort this out. Insurance laws are confusing (ever tried to read your policy?). Don't communicate further with these people. What if they want to come to your home to get the check? Now they will have all your personal information. Will it ever be *settled*? Call your agent.

Explain exactly what has happened and provide copies of all emails, photos and your timeline of communication since the accident. The situation needs to be resolved by your insurance company.

Good luck!

 

[Mysterian]

A police report isn't required for a claim to be filed or investigated by your insurance company in terms of a blanket statement, it's helpful but not required. And police reports don't say who is at fault, that is determined by the insurance companies. It may be considered someone's responsibility according to their insurance company to call the police depending on the company and product they are under but coming from an insurance background there were plenty of claims I saw without ones and from an underwriting perspective for acceptability of new business sometimes police reports weren't available/done and that was one of the documents I would look at.

Not at all saying that OP needs to get more involved, I’m saying the Trailer people are trying to scam her, and they know they have little to go on. They threw out a general $900 invoice in hopes for a bite.

A supposedly $900 value here, and yet the trailer guys verbally told OP not to worry about it. They just changed their mind and sent a bill two weeks later.

If they knew they could get $900 from an honest insurance claim, they would have opted for insurance from the start. Or providing a receipt for repairs would be another honest method, but they didn’t. They had OP’s contact info, but instead of seeking to cooperate with OP on a claim, they sent an generic invoice. Conveniently shirking any involvement with insurance companies.

I wonder if this company is called something like Red Flag Landscapers? How fitting.

The reason people are talking about the OP's responsibility is because she can only control herself. You can't make the other party do xyz. It's quite possible if a claim is filed the insurance company would deny the other party's claim due to lack of xyz or it's possible they'll pay it and move on quickly. And while it may be a moot point the OP could have been the one to file a police report, the onus is actually both parties. It's not on just the other party here to have filed a police report. I think naturally people tend to not want to out themselves and thus may be less likely especially in a minor situation like this file a report on themselves as people might assume the injured (not physically but just ones with the more damaged property) should be the ones to get a police report for their vehicle.

I wholeheartedly agree, responsibility lies with both parties. Which brings me to this:

OP, have you thought about taking your photos to a trailer repair place and ask if they can guess what repairs would cost? It might give you an idea if the bill you were given was reasonable and that is something to give you information that you could counter offer the victim.

TVGUy, you already said the OP “shouldn’t handle this themselves”. Why should they counter offer when you already mentioned going through insurance?

I don’t believe the OP should have to spend their time getting estimates from trailer repair shops. The trailer people are responsible to provide a fair and honest invoice, or a receipt.

And if the trailer people were operating fairly and honestly, the OP wouldn’t be in this situation.

 

[TLSnell1981]

It literally says in the post you quoted that I am NOT saying that. Literally says that. I’m saying your assertion that OP could get in trouble with their insurance company for not filing is very remote because there is zero proof that OP did anything. And let’s be real here. Sounds like this company found a way to get themselves a new trailer and decided to get the OP to pay cash for it. As mentioned in previous posts there’s probably a reason they turned her down in the first place. No one spends $900 in cash themselves hoping to get insurance to pay for it later. They’re not going to file with her insurance because they got nothin. They’re counting on the OP being afraid of their insurance going up. OP says I’m not paying that, chances are the company walks away. Or they ask for insurance in which case the OP can then contact them.

A new trailer costs way more than $900. If one needs the trailer for daily activities ...most certainly would have it repaired and hope to be reimbursed. That said, they need to supply some type of receipts for the repair work before I'd consider giving the, a dime. It's quite possible there was more damage than initially believe. Thus..."don't worry about it.' The claim may or not be legit but I wouldn't automatically think "scam".