What the Hell is Wrong with DVC?

[Sandisw]

I plead Guilty to that charge your Honor. I have tried to be more precise since that was pointed out.

Sorry, didn’t mean to sound preachy! Thanks for being gracious!

 

[dismedvc]

Sorry, didn’t mean to sound preachy! Thanks for being gracious!

You did not sound preachy, you were correct. We have responded back and forth to each other's posts so often that I am sure we both know exactly where the other stands. As I have posted, I think there are solutions that would benefit both TWDC and DVC members, if TWDC can work out the internal accounting. However, I realize TWDC and DVC can not make/announce a decision until they know how long the resorts will be closed.

ETA: There is a saying that when two people have exactly the same opinion, one of them is unnecessary to the conversation.
Although I may sometimes disagree with you, I thank you, and your sometimes different opininions for being necessary to the conversation,. and also for being cordial in allowing me do the same.

 

[Deploraboo]

For anyone not refunding amounts to those having rented their points here. Those renters may have an immediate need for those funds, like food and rent, possibly medical care as well. May be a good time to pay it forward here.

 

[McCrae]

For anyone not refunding amounts to those having rented their points here. Those renters may have an immediate need for those funds, like food and rent, possibly medical care as well. May be a good time to pay it forward here.

Whilst I do think owners should do what they can to help renters, I don‘t think It is likely that people who decided to spend thousands of dollars on a trip to Disney are the type of people you describe.

 

[Shamus]

For anyone not refunding amounts to those having rented their points here. Those renters may have an immediate need for those funds, like food and rent, possibly medical care as well. May be a good time to pay it forward here.

Whilst I do think owners should do what they can to help renters, I don‘t think It is likely that people who decided to spend thousands of dollars on a trip to Disney are the type of people you describe.

In fact there is a greater likelihood that the Owners who rented their points out were in need of cash and are therefore currently not in the financial position to make such a refund.

 

[tjkraz]

What if they extend everyone’s contract end date a year without dues? I would enjoy that.

The Old Key West extension years ago gave us a little insight into this process. In that case, DVC/DVD unilaterally extended the ground lease for OKW by several years, asking owners to either pay to participate or agree to sign back their rights to the 12 years added.

In theory, they might be able to extend all ground leases by a year. But the extension would apply to ALL owners. Right now, only a small number of points are threatened by this move. Despite a closure that appears destined to last at least 2.5 months (if not much longer), millions of points have been returned without Holding rules applied and are still eligible for baking.

We’re going to lose more than 20% of resort capacity, but even now, far less than 20% of all points are in jeopardy.

The POS provides for “loss of business” insurance, which theoretically would compensate the condo association for any closure. But we don’t know if DVC secured such insurance or if the policy covers a pandemic. If such insurance exists, the proceeds could be used to reimburse owners who lost points or to fund some other initiative.

As many others have pointed out, The Walt Disney Company has very little legal obligation to help here.

My gut feeling is that Disney will do something, but they probably won’t commit to a specific plan until the full impact of the pandemic is known. Offering Disney Collection hotel rooms for points seems like a possibility, without the typical villa offset that normally would occur. A lot may depend on what WDW advance bookings look like leading-up to any reopening.

Any make-good on Disney’s part is likely to cost them money (unless insurance fully covers.) But there’s something to be said for maintaining the reputation of Disney Vacation Club. Many of us understand the nature of a timeshare and realize that Disney’s legal exposure is small. Still, if people lose points over this, it has the chance to stick in people’s minds (and on the internet) for years to come, negatively impacting future sales.

And filling beds which would otherwise sit vacant allows them to earn money thru the parks and restaurants.

 

[DVCPAT]

Which resort POS? My RIV 10.8 says something different. Can you give me an idea of what section that is to see if I can find the comparable one?

My 11.7 discusses interruption of use but doesnt allow for extension.

It’s in my Boardwalk contract. I’ll check my
Wilderness Lodge contract and see if it’s the same.

 

[Royal Consort]

Any make-good on Disney’s part is likely to cost them money (unless insurance fully covers.) But there’s something to be said for maintaining the reputation of Disney Vacation Club. Many of us understand the nature of a timeshare and realize that Disney’s legal exposure is small. Still, if people lose points over this, it has the chance to stick in people’s minds (and on the internet) for years to come, negatively impacting future sales.

And that's the kicker. My assumption would be that Disney would do something; not out of concern for the existing membership but for the long term reputation of the DVC product and sales. Looking after the cash guest while turning their back on DVC members would be the worst imaginable marketing.

 

[Deploraboo]

Whilst I do think owners should do what they can to help renters, I don‘t think It is likely that people who decided to spend thousands of dollars on a trip to Disney are the type of people you describe.

You’re probably right. They’re likely the types that can easily write off a loss of thousands of dollars as if it were nothin. They probably drive Lamborghini’s and sip 500 dollar bottles of wine like it was canada dry, eff em.

 

[starry_solo]

Whilst I do think owners should do what they can to help renters, I don‘t think It is likely that people who decided to spend thousands of dollars on a trip to Disney are the type of people you describe.

Maybe not here on the DIS, but out in the real world, a lot of people save up for years for a once in a lifetime Disneyland (or Disneyworld) vacation

 

[Deploraboo]

And most lambo drivers rent DVC points instead of paying 50% more on Disney direct prices as, you know, a goof.

 

[Shamus]

.......
We’re going to lose more than 20% of resort capacity, but even now, far less than 20% of all points are in jeopardy.
......

Exactly! I think it is important to remember that while many members are being INCONVENIENCED and finding it difficult (but not impossible) to utilize their points, there are others who are shutout and have already lost or stand to lose the ability to use their points in any manner unless DVC Management makes some form of compensation or adjustment.

That being said, I don't believe we a talking a great percentage of the membership that is actually being shutout and potentially losing points with no options. ASSUMING (I know ... but just bare with me) .... Assuming that they reopen June 1st as that is the date Disney is currently focused on, the only people who lost points with no other options are those with April or June Use Years who had reservations during the closure period utilizing Banked (2018) or Current (2019) points. All others have (or at least had) the opportunity to utilize their points in some fashion or another. Granted it may not be when or where they wanted to go, but they are not being totally shutout. So we have two use years and 11 weeks being affected. Since we don't have access to all the data or a crystal ball lets go with the known averages ..... 2/8 and 11/52 that's 5.3%. Still a lot of members but not a high percentage overall. Personally I think that 5.3% is on the high side but still a number management should be able to compensate and accommodate for in some form or another with out much difficulty. Even if it were just to extend the use of the points for 3 months, these members too would suffer some inconvenience, but at least they wouldn't have been fully shutout. JMHO

 

[Sandisw]

Exactly! I think it is important to remember that while many members are being INCONVENIENCED and finding it difficult (but not impossible) to utilize their points, there are others who are shutout and have already lost or stand to lose the ability to use their points in any manner unless DVC Management makes some form of compensation or adjustment.

That being said, I don't believe we a talking a great percentage of the membership that is actually being shutout and potentially losing points with no options. ASSUMING (I know ... but just bare with me) .... Assuming that they reopen June 1st as that is the date Disney is currently focused on, the only people who lost points with no other options are those with April or June Use Years who had reservations during the closure period utilizing Banked (2018) or Current (2019) points. All others have (or at least had) the opportunity to utilize their points in some fashion or another. Granted it may not be when or where they wanted to go, but they are not being totally shutout. So we have two use years and 11 weeks being affected. Since we don't have access to all the data or a crystal ball lets go with the known averages ..... 2/8 and 11/52 that's 5.3%. Still a lot of members but not a high percentage overall. Personally I think that 5.3% is on the high side but still a number management should be able to compensate and accommodate for in some form or another with out much difficulty. Even if it were just to extend the use of the points for 3 months, these members too would suffer some inconvenience, but at least they wouldn't have been fully shutout. JMHO

That type of solution could work. But, you do have to add Aug and Sept UY, because you have owner with those UYs who still hold reservations during the closure.

Aug UY is now beyond banking and if no solution is offered by May 1st, it would include Sept UY.

Even so, it may not be enough to impact a short term solution like you mention.

 

[Shamus]

That type of solution could work. But, you do have to add Aug and Sept UY, because you have owner with those UYs who still hold reservations during the closure.

Aug UY is now beyond banking and if no solution is offered by May 1st, it would include Sept UY.

Even so, it may not be enough to impact a short term solution like you mention.

I disagree in that AUG and SEP should necessarily be included. Staying with a June 1st reopen, both AUG had and SEP still has the opportunity to adjust their plans. If they choose not to do so for April and May plans that is their risk. APR and JUN did not have such an option once closures were announced.

 

[Sandisw]

I disagree in that AUG and SEP should necessarily be included. Staying with a June 1st reopen, both AUG had and SEP still has the opportunity to adjust their plans. If they choose not to do so for April and May plans that is their risk. APR and JUN did not have such an option once closures were announced.

I agree with you, but it will be something that DVCM would have to think about in terms of that solution.

 

[Deb & Bill]

... (I know ... but just bare with me) ....

I don't think you want me to bare with you. It would be ugly. Now I can bear with you to get your thought out, though.

 

[Shamus]

I don't think you want me to bare with you. It would be ugly. Now I can bear with you to get your thought out, though.

LOL!! Correct ... Bear the bare bear!

 

[McCrae]

Maybe not here on the DIS, but out in the real world, a lot of people save up for years for a once in a lifetime Disneyland (or Disneyworld) vacation

I agree. DVC is not though a cheap option to go to Disney. Other much cheaper options are available and you would expect for the people you describe this is a more likely option than DVC.

 

[McCrae]

You’re probably right. They’re likely the types that can easily write off a loss of thousands of dollars as if it were nothin. They probably drive Lamborghini’s and sip 500 dollar bottles of wine like it was canada dry, eff em.

If you are struggling to put food on the table or pay your bills as the poster suggested, do you really think a lot of people in that group would rent DVC points when much cheaper, but good options are available?

 

[Deploraboo]

<Ahem>, as a refresher, we’re only three weeks into this.