What is going on with Disney parks?

[Tiki Birdland]

Great episode!

What's the likelyhood that any Disney exec is going to take ANY of that list to heart?

 

[EmJ]

For people that are new, they dont even know what ADR stands for, so although it does get easier after your first trip, it still definitely requires a certain level of planning to properly setup ur trip. Yea u can just show up and wing it but I think that is more for folks that live close enough and decide to just pop in and enjoy being at Disney and not caring about any reservations or waiting in long lines. I know some will argue that yea, other people also just show up and wing it but I am referring to the majority. You even said yourself that you have no problem shuffling and making changes to ur ADR's right up to the day of, which means you had to make changes for some reason. This is the point everyone is trying to make, the fact you have to make plans so far in advance it creates conflict with other activities and plans that can't be made until later. This is probably fine and even great for the ultra planner's that setup a spread sheet with an itinerary breaking down their entire trip hour by hour but for those that just want to be able to setup their favorite FP in the same park on the same day at the same time as their ADR, can be extremely frustrating to say the least. The opinion I'm seeing from everyone doesn't seem like they mind the intial planning but it's more the extent of it that everyone dislikes. It seems most would prefer to be able to just get online and setup their entire trip all at once and not have to worry about going back later to try and finish the 2nd half of their trip and hope it lines up with the first half that was setup months earlier. Yes, I know people dont have to do all this planning, they do have the option to wait until everything is available and then do it all together but we all know for a fact if u do this, u will not get hardly any signature/character meals.

Last year, a coworker of mine gave her 7 year old daughter a trip to the Magic Kingdom for Christmas. The trip wasn’t until March, so the little girl had to wait a looooong time to go. They had two days and were staying on property (I don’t know where). She said it was the worst, most miserable trip they ever had. She said when they got there, her daughter was SO EXCITED to see Cinderella’s Castle. So that was good. But after that, all the lines for the rides her daughter wanted to do were 60 minutes +, the food and souvenirs were too expensive, the sit down restaurants were all booked, and even then character lines were horrendous. They went on three rides the whole day, and left. The next day they didn’t even bother. They stayed at the hotel and used the pool.

I asked, did you have FP? 60 days in advance? Booked your ADRs? Rope drop? She had no clue what I was talking about. The last time she was at Disney was 20 years ago. She loved it and didn’t know how much it had changed. I think it’s easy to assume that everyone who goes to Disney are like the people on this board—type A super planner/researchers who are committed enough to participate in a forum devoted just to that! But I’m guessing we are actually in the minority. At the moment, I’m actively discouraging another friend from taking her child to WDW in February for her fifth birthday. They haven’t booked or planned anything yet, so probably too late. I’ve suggested DL instead.

 

[tlmadden73]

Last year, a coworker of mine gave her 7 year old daughter a trip to the Magic Kingdom for Christmas. The trip wasn’t until March, so the little girl had to wait a looooong time to go. They had two days and were staying on property (I don’t know where). She said it was the worst, most miserable trip they ever had. She said when they got there, her daughter was SO EXCITED to see Cinderella’s Castle. So that was good. But after that, all the lines for the rides her daughter wanted to do were 60 minutes +, the food and souvenirs were too expensive, the sit down restaurants were all booked, and even then character lines were horrendous. They went on three rides the whole day, and left. The next day they didn’t even bother. They stayed at the hotel and used the pool.

I asked, did you have FP? 60 days in advance? Booked your ADRs? Rope drop? She had no clue what I was talking about. The last time she was at Disney was 20 years ago. She loved it and didn’t know how much it had changed. I think it’s easy to assume that everyone who goes to Disney are like the people on this board—type A super planner/researchers who are committed enough to participate in a forum devoted just to that! But I’m guessing we are actually in the minority. At the moment, I’m actively discouraging another friend from taking her child to WDW in February for her fifth birthday. They haven’t booked or planned anything yet, so probably too late. I’ve suggested DL instead.

I can't imagine going to WDW now as a "first time" .. I started going again regularly in 2014 after the advent of FP+ .. and I was able to navigate that pretty well because I was familiar with the parks/rides and found a site like this one.

The best way I've given "help" to first times is I just go myself with them and "guide" them while there.
In November, my parents joined us and I just took care of all the planning and they were happy with doing whatever we chose. I reserved Hoop de Doo, Fast Passes, etc. It started off rough with a day at Epcot .. a lot of walking, and "hurrying up" to meet FP or ADR times. Every day got a bit better as they got used to the pace and realized what that scheduling was doing for us. Having a "day off" in the middle helps all that though. Even though there were some things we had to skip (just no time) .. they had a good time.

In March, my sister's family (4) joined us. (Well .. we joined them). I sorta took planning by the horns and guided them throughout the two days we were together. We had a great time at MK and she was amazed at all the stuff we did. I had a good efficient plan and purposely chose attractions I knew wouldn't have long waits (Country Bars, Tom Sawyer Island, etc). They just let me pick the next thing to do and it worked out well. It was amazing how much we did that day (and we didn't stay late). The second day at Hollywood Studios was okay -- the FP tiering prevented us from going on Slinky Dog, but they still had a fun day. There just wasn't much to do at DHS for little kids. We left before they did and they had one day to themselves and it sounded like it went fine because I made sure they had Fast Passes all in the same area around the same time (Tomorrowland).

If either of my families tried that trip on their own, probably would have not been as good .. and that's a shame.

My sister-in-laws family is going in February and I worry about that one. They are getting a travel agent to help them plan things (not sure why they didn't ask me *shrug*) .. so that should help with the planning, but I have seen some familes who get a travel agent get WORN DOWN by the very aggressive plans travel agents make. Sometimes they know TOO much and try and help families cram it all in with multiple ADRs a day and FPs for the "big" attractions (even though it may involve walking back and forth across the parks)>

I know my sister-in-law's husband enjoys a laid back vacation .. doesn't want to get up early or stay late .. and I fear he may get frustrated at the lack of things they can do with that mindset.

 

[ChipnDale79]

Signs of bookings down? For the first time in a very long time, I got a pin code last night.

The promo is for $150 a night at Coronado Springs from November - December 20th.

I was shocked at that rate, i also passed on it.

 

[SaintsManiac]

Signs of bookings down? For the first time in a very long time, I got a pin code last night.

The promo is for $150 a night at Coronado Springs from November - December 20th.

I was shocked at that rate, i also passed on it.

That's less than what I am paying for Pop Thanksgiving week WITH an AP discount.

 

[SaintsManiac]

Last year, a coworker of mine gave her 7 year old daughter a trip to the Magic Kingdom for Christmas. The trip wasn’t until March, so the little girl had to wait a looooong time to go. They had two days and were staying on property (I don’t know where). She said it was the worst, most miserable trip they ever had. She said when they got there, her daughter was SO EXCITED to see Cinderella’s Castle. So that was good. But after that, all the lines for the rides her daughter wanted to do were 60 minutes +, the food and souvenirs were too expensive, the sit down restaurants were all booked, and even then character lines were horrendous. They went on three rides the whole day, and left. The next day they didn’t even bother. They stayed at the hotel and used the pool.

I asked, did you have FP? 60 days in advance? Booked your ADRs? Rope drop? She had no clue what I was talking about. The last time she was at Disney was 20 years ago. She loved it and didn’t know how much it had changed. I think it’s easy to assume that everyone who goes to Disney are like the people on this board—type A super planner/researchers who are committed enough to participate in a forum devoted just to that! But I’m guessing we are actually in the minority. At the moment, I’m actively discouraging another friend from taking her child to WDW in February for her fifth birthday. They haven’t booked or planned anything yet, so probably too late. I’ve suggested DL instead.

Eh I don't have pity on people who don't do any research. Would these same people go to New York without at least checking out some websites? There are a zillion guide books on Disney World. There are a zillion blogs, sites, YouTube channels. Heck, Disney sends an email about making FPs. I just don't understand why anyone would spend thousands on ANY destination without doing an hour of research.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Signs of bookings down? For the first time in a very long time, I got a pin code last night.

The promo is for $150 a night at Coronado Springs from November - December 20th.

I was shocked at that rate, i also passed on it.

I actually have been getting PIN codes for several years. First they came in my husband's name before we even went on our 2017 trip (I'm the primary MDE person though) but since our 2017 trip they've been in our name. I got one last week for up to 30% off for early next year.

I did get Coronado Springs one but I don't know when the price is actually $150 a night because several checks for random nights yielded no availability but I didn't go on a hunting expedition because I'm not going then. Mine was November 29th-December 20th. So pretty limited time frame (roughly 3 weeks worth). And again a quick search yielded no availability but maybe someone else has better luck.

 

[ChipnDale79]

I actually have been getting PIN codes for several years. First they came in my husband's name before we even went on our 2017 trip (I'm the primary MDE person though) but since our 2017 trip they've been in our name. I got one last week for up to 30% off for early next year.

I did get Coronado Springs one but I don't know when the price is actually $150 a night because several checks for random nights yielded no availability but I didn't go on a hunting expedition because I'm not going then. Mine was November 29th-December 20th. So pretty limited time frame (roughly 3 weeks worth). And again a quick search yielded no availability but maybe someone else has better luck.

we used to get them all the time, but i would guess its been 4 or 5 years since we've got one. Maybe its because we don't have a trip booked.

 

[mum22girlz]

Signs of bookings down? For the first time in a very long time, I got a pin code last night.

The promo is for $150 a night at Coronado Springs from November - December 20th.

I was shocked at that rate, i also passed on it.

I also got that code. I won't be able to use it, but just checked some dates for fun. No dates available.

 

[CamilaGS]

Eh I don't have pity on people who don't do any research. Would these same people go to New York without at least checking out some websites? There are a zillion guide books on Disney World. There are a zillion blogs, sites, YouTube channels. Heck, Disney sends an email about making FPs. I just don't understand why anyone would spend thousands on ANY destination without doing an hour of research.

Didn´t follow the whole discussion, but I agree with you. First time I went to WDW, I accompanied my aunt, my cousin and his fiancée - the fiancée was the only one that had been to WDW, multiple times, so we relied on her to do all the planning. Turns out she wasn´t that much of a planner and had a lot of restrictions (doesn´t like coasters and thrill rides) and she also wasn´t that much experienced in traveling with us, so I ended up not seeing and doing much of what I now know I like. I don´t blame her - we shouldn´t have burdened her with the responsibility of planning the whole trip and I should have checked stuff, like what attractions do I want to ride? Where do I want to eat? Do I want to meet characters and which ones? I was younger and less mature and I decided to take that experience as an advice for life: travel, as many things in life, takes planning.
WDW is one of the most planning-heavy destinations, but I plan every trip I make. Even a weekend getaway up in the mountains with my wife is planned: where to go to eat, where to stay, what to do. Heck, it took me and my wife two years to plan our wedding and 15-day-long honeymoon in Europe LOL. I can´t understand scheduling a trip and not doing even a little bit of research. I understand not everyone enjoys planning as I do (it´s half of the fun of traveling!), but even if you find it dull and irritating it saves you a great deal of disappointment on the trip itself.

 

[DisLiss]

Eh I don't have pity on people who don't do any research. Would these same people go to New York without at least checking out some websites? There are a zillion guide books on Disney World. There are a zillion blogs, sites, YouTube channels. Heck, Disney sends an email about making FPs. I just don't understand why anyone would spend thousands on ANY destination without doing an hour of research.

Sounds like my husband. He always says "People walk around with more information in their pocket than one can possibly describe. Why don't they use it?" in response to any time someone is bemoaning how an experience (anything, not just WDW) wasn't what they had hoped it would be due to them not knowing something about it.

In other words, they arrive when a place is closed or after an event ended or without a reservation or not knowing it was an outdoor event, etc., etc.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Last year, a coworker of mine gave her 7 year old daughter a trip to the Magic Kingdom for Christmas. The trip wasn’t until March, so the little girl had to wait a looooong time to go. They had two days and were staying on property (I don’t know where). She said it was the worst, most miserable trip they ever had. She said when they got there, her daughter was SO EXCITED to see Cinderella’s Castle. So that was good. But after that, all the lines for the rides her daughter wanted to do were 60 minutes +, the food and souvenirs were too expensive, the sit down restaurants were all booked, and even then character lines were horrendous. They went on three rides the whole day, and left. The next day they didn’t even bother. They stayed at the hotel and used the pool.

I asked, did you have FP? 60 days in advance? Booked your ADRs? Rope drop? She had no clue what I was talking about. The last time she was at Disney was 20 years ago. She loved it and didn’t know how much it had changed. I think it’s easy to assume that everyone who goes to Disney are like the people on this board—type A super planner/researchers who are committed enough to participate in a forum devoted just to that! But I’m guessing we are actually in the minority. At the moment, I’m actively discouraging another friend from taking her child to WDW in February for her fifth birthday. They haven’t booked or planned anything yet, so probably too late. I’ve suggested DL instead.

DLR is going to have the same problems. Will they know about FP period to even get it day of? Do they know what FP is. Do they know/want to purchase MP? Lines won't be walk on either plus the rides that won't have FP (but I usually count that as a plus these days honestly).

Pre-planning is slightly different at DLR but ADR reservations are now 60days in advance (newest change is Oga's rather than being 14 days in advance).

And if you don't know what FP is or how to utilize it at WDW unless you look it up you're not going to know it at DLR despite them working slightly differently.

The food and souvenirs will still be expensive at DLR as they are at WDW. Wonder if they ever utilized Mobile Ordering at WDW because I've found that helps with the lines for the places that take them (which is quite a lot at both parks these days). Do they even have an MDE account?

Disney isn't for everyone but that's not a bad thing like sometimes this Board makes it out to be nor is it because Disney 'requires' this or that. I would argue that someone only going for 2 days is probably not the target style person for WDW anyways. I've seen reviews when people say they rode 3 rides and walked out. Ok but I know you didn't have to do that. The concept of RD is not something I knew about before the DIS. But it's not a poor planning on my part because I didn't know that or that I didn't utilize it.

I'm not negating what you or others are saying but sometimes people take to heart what people's trips are like without looking at what the person didn't do. My in-laws aren't big onto the research and planning. They don't do it for other trips they wouldn't do it for WDW. I'm not going to blame Disney because they are those types of tourists. There might be quite a lot of information you can absorb when it comes to Disney planning but Disney's website does give you a lot of that information. You won't know that BOG is a hard ADR to get but you'll find out what an ADR is and how to book it and when you can book it. You won't know that FOP,SDD and 7DMT are hard to get FPs but you'll find out what a FP is, what comes with your park ticket, and how and when to book it.

 

[Brianstl]

I also got that code. I won't be able to use it, but just checked some dates for fun. No dates available.

This morning December 16-21 was available at $150 Coronado standard room.

 

[gorkt]

My theory is that vacation planners should all marry non-vacation planners.

I LOVE planning vacations - the anticipation is almost as good as the vacation itself. Poring over websites, review, blog posts etc... is my jam. My husband just gets to show up. He literally has no idea of what my plans are for our trip in two weeks and he doesn't want to know. However, part of that is understanding his requests and preferences. He hates the extreme heat, so as you can see, all of our trips are in Nov, Dec. He doesn't like to go, go, go morning and night, so we do 1/2-3/4 days at the park with rest mornings/evenings. He gets headaches, so if he gets one, we slow down or he goes back to take a nap. Otherwise I have carte blanche. I have spent tons of time in the past year planning this trip, and he is oblivious. It works for us.

 

[rteetz]

Signs of bookings down? For the first time in a very long time, I got a pin code last night.

The promo is for $150 a night at Coronado Springs from November - December 20th.

I was shocked at that rate, i also passed on it.

Got the same offer

 

[Heather07438]

I visited right as the Disney dining plan was added and the food was really good. Then a few years later I came back to Disney and did the dining plan again and the food quality was noticeably worse. I think the DDP did not help things and only made the quality go down. They really need to go back to what was working.

The progression of DDP looks like this to me:

Offering DDP helped stimulate interest. An enticement to show that meals can be an integral part of a magical experience. Guests are nudged to up their food game, explore more options and more often. Once people expand their WDW food budget, it's hard to go back to the cheaper meals next trip. Expensive food becomes the norm.

Which is fine but now WDW has exploded food prices to help the $75/day food plan look justified because it can include an $18 burger, a $38 Sizzler steak, two $7 pretzels and two $9 beers. At the same time, WDW systematically cut the higher priced better menu options. There were awesome high quality entrees at some DDP restaurants in the $40-$50 range 3-4 years ago; now they've dumbed down all the 'best' entrees to the $28-$38 range of price/quality. Entrees have become noticeably boring compared to what was offered 4 years ago. And green beans galore everywhere... can't they grow other veggies in Florida?

Without adding alcohol to DDP, the downgraded options and upgraded prices would've been more evident. Plus they probably figure they can make alcohol the new norm as well and get people in the habit of including that expense on a trip.

 

[hertamaniac]

My theory is that vacation planners should all marry non-vacation planners.

Worked for me! Well, at least for 9.62 years.

The complexity of planning out a vacation at WDW has become too laborious. I have zero desire to do predictive eating via an ADR 180 days in advance.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

My theory is that vacation planners should all marry non-vacation planners.

I LOVE planning vacations - the anticipation is almost as good as the vacation itself. Poring over websites, review, blog posts etc... is my jam. My husband just gets to show up. He literally has no idea of what my plans are for our trip in two weeks and he doesn't want to know. However, part of that is understanding his requests and preferences. He hates the extreme heat, so as you can see, all of our trips are in Nov, Dec. He doesn't like to go, go, go morning and night, so we do 1/2-3/4 days at the park with rest mornings/evenings. He gets headaches, so if he gets one, we slow down or he goes back to take a nap. Otherwise I have carte blanche. I have spent tons of time in the past year planning this trip, and he is oblivious. It works for us.

That's a good point.

I'd say both my husband and I love planning but it depends on the vacation.

He's not as big of a Disney person as I am so I did the vast vast majority of the planning for our 2017 WDW trip, and our 2 2019 DLR trips. That said he did still watch YouTube videos of both WDW and DLR for things here and there on his own.

But Vegas? Oh yeah that he has a schedule down of where we were going to eat, shows we were going to see, places that had better poker odds (off the Strip basically), rewards to use from MLife program, etc. I kinda just had to show up for this past June's trip other than I helped find economical places to eat. Heck right now he's playing an app for Wynn Resorts so he can earn 'free' nights (he's up to a couple of nights depending on when you go). He's planning another trip for early next year which he just up and randomly told me about lol. When I went to visit him last month in Long Beach, CA he had a schedule too and places to eat and my portion of planning that trip was the 3 DLR days where he didn't care about any actual plans.

Meanwhile we're also planning a beach vacation for next year (either Hawaii again, Turks & Caicos or Grand Cayman probably) and for those we put the same effort in equally if it all pans out.

More often than not we put in equal work but there are vacations where one takes the big lead and the other is along for the ride in terms of nitty gritty planning.

 

[mickeyfanachey1999]

Signs of bookings down? For the first time in a very long time, I got a pin code last night.

The promo is for $150 a night at Coronado Springs from November - December 20th.

I was shocked at that rate, i also passed on it.

Dang it! I would love to get that pin code...providing I could book the 20th-23rd with it

 

[Jonfw2]

This would be a great business school study on the Law of Diminishing Returns: how much can a company charge more and provide less before the customer has had enough.

The sad part is, Disney doesn't care about park attendance, except as a matter of optics. If the total number of visitors is down 6%, but due to price increases, new fees, and reduced service, the complex's profit rises 10%, then Disney wins. The breaking point is when the profit itself drops. That is when they will re-evaluate.

Galaxy's Edge is a perfect example today. I think off the record, Disney would admit that attendance has been lower than expected (I mean, just look at the "boarding" concept which is almost never used). But, they are getting far, far more demand for the canteen and lightsaber and droid building- which all carry an insane added cost to the consumer. So, despite lower attendance (which, frankly, I think will change when Rise opens), they are likely making a bigger profit than expected.