What is going on with Disney parks?

[snappy]

They always increase prices before major crowd seasons. It's just so expensive already.

And they don’t decrease food prices during the low crowd seasons.

Funny how that works.

 

[Tink-osophy]

Im bummed the great movie ride got taken out, as I think an update and maybe switch to Disney IPs could’ve been preferable to totally fitting it. But the whole backlot tour imo was a waste of space. You were basically going through the hollowed out husks of soundstages that hadnt filmed anything of substance for 20 years. I haven’t agreed with all the changes, and loved some but you have to admit a pivot in the idea of the park had to happen at some point

I don't have to admit anything! (light-hearted, in case that doesn't translate)

Seriously, I didn't say the Backlot Tour didn't need some work (or even replacing), but I did agree with Snoopy352 that Disney could have kept an overall identity for Hollywood Studios. With some imagineering, they could have had created some kind of new and exciting tour of movie-making that would have a really broad appeal.

Plus, if you read through more of this page - no pressure! , but if you do - you'll see that (like many others, I guess) I'm not against the evolution of the parks - it's about the way they're evolving the parks away from the solid quality and unique creativity that used to be the Disney way.

 

[Tink-osophy]

I just watched the beginning of the video, "Walt Disney Imagineering presents the Epcot Experience", which rteetz posted over on the News Round Up thread: -

https://www.disboards.com/threads/news-round-up-2019.3726636/page-825
I definitely got that Disney feeling from it , but, will it translate to the actual guest experience?

It used to be you paid a lot to visit Disney parks and you got a mostly consistent, exceptional experience in return. It wasn't 100%, because nothing is, but it was pretty close. Disney was a leader in the field of customer service. It had an outstanding grasp of the *details* of the guest experience.

Now, with all the cuts, that experience seems much more hit-and-miss -- whether, it's fewer CMs; decreased ride capacity; poorer merchandise quality;, non-policing of line-cutters, pool-crashers and view-blockers(!); removal of photographers and, even, benches; more random CM interactions; unreliable IT; room checks; inconsistent housekeeping; a downturn in food quality etc...

People don't really know what they can rely on for the much higher price they are paying. They're having to compete with each other much more. That's less fun and they're not just less likely to return themselves, they're less likely to encourage others to make a first trip.

 

[tlmadden73]

Another price increase ~ resort mugs have gone up a dollar to $19.99 plus tax for length of stay.

Dont blame them. The amount of people that have those things (for only being able to use them IN the resorts) is amazing to me. I am sure a big percentage of them is via the Dining Plan. But if people are buying them in droves, they can raise the price. Supply/demand.

I have gotten them on a few times, but I think I am done. I will just bring my old ones and use them for water/coffee. Wish there was a refill option .. Disney cracks down on straws to prevent plastic waste, but encourages people to buy a full set of mugs every trip? LOL

 

[Heather07438]

And they don’t decrease food prices during the low crowd seasons.

Funny how that works.

Instead they just lower the staff and hours for low crowds

 

[umichigan10]

I don't have to admit anything! (light-hearted, in case that doesn't translate)

Seriously, I didn't say the Backlot Tour didn't need some work (or even replacing), but I did agree with Snoopy352 that Disney could have kept an overall identity for Hollywood Studios. With some imagineering, they could have had created some kind of new and exciting tour of movie-making that would have a really broad appeal.

Plus, if you read through more of this page - no pressure! , but if you do - you'll see that (like many others, I guess) I'm not against the evolution of the parks - it's about the way they're evolving the parks away from the solid quality and unique creativity that used to be the Disney way.

I think you’re main point of evolving away from unique creativity in favor of IP stuff is valid (that’s how I read it anyway, please correct me it wrong). I just think the studios is a unique case. It was essentially a pet project of Eisner to compete with universal and bring filming to Florida. It didn’t work, and at least there’s finally been something done to address the vacant buildings and the inconsistency in ideology. Just my two cents, but I also feel some of the changes weren’t the best (GMR and taking out the animation academy for example, both needed to be changed and pivot in another direction but not totally gutted imo).

I feel sorta similarly about Epcot. The entire park was based off of corporate sponsorship. In 2019, that’s kinda a waste of advertising for most companies, who can spend far less than on a theme park attraction and reach more people. Not to mention the perspective of corporate America has changed a lot since 1982. Now, does that mean they should throw in the towel and chuck frozen in Norway or guardians of the galaxy in and call it a day? No, but I do think again you have to change the idea behind the park, at least in future world, which clearly wasn’t working.

(Also I’m not offended at all, it’s all in good fun! )

 

[mickeyluv'r]

One thing I'm always super curious about is.. who are these people paying $800-$1000 a night to stay in the deluxe resorts?

WDW is kind of like many clothing stores these days. They have a (near) permanent 'sale.'


"Hurry! Buy NOW before the SALE ends!"

 

[firefly_ris]

WDW is kind of like many clothing stores these days. They have a (near) permanent 'sale.'


"Hurry! Buy NOW before the SALE ends!"

 

[disneyseniors]

I'm really fine with IP's. Disney Parks have had IP presence since their resepctive inception. I wish EPCOT wasn't changing it's direction (I'm fine with a Ratatouille Ride, not so much Guardians), but it's not going to change. So that I'll accept. And tbh, that's fine. It's one of the areas I'm willing to accept cost cutting because it's probably cheaper to make a new attraction based on existing IP than come up with something brand new and original. Would I prefer original? Yes. But I'd also like to see more from one of my favorite Disney movies than fancy bathrooms (that I don't have to travel across the world to see).

Where I will agree with you are cost cutting items like the cameraboxes which are somehow supposed to be "better" than a human but a)can't account for variables or candid shots and b)take up to 48 hours when human photopass photos takes a couple hours at most. These cost cutting ideas are going to get them into more trouble then they realize and I'm not sure how much brand loyalty they'll have left if this continues



I would argue it's a problem of price increase vs value. If price increases were there to accommodate the perceived value Disney has offered in the past, I don't think you would see the complaints. The complaints are coming from cutting costs, which reduce the services guests get for that value and as a result are paying more but getting less in return. You could say "crowds" were Disney's problem, but Bob Chapek himself said regarding SWGE that "crowding is a good problem to have" (paraphrase). The reason they kept getting crowds was because the value in the service they received in getting that intangible, magical experience at a Disney Park outweighed that cost. Everyone understands Disney is a business but forgetting where the value lies in the parks is the exact thing that's going to put them behind the 8 ball. The ship is not going to correct itself soon and I think we're going to see a major shift in crowds in the next year. I'm not even sure they'll have the crowds they're expecting for the 50th if this number crunching penny pinching continues.



That's interesting as I made my trip plans post-WDW SWGE announcement for the first week of December. So sometime in June was when I made my 180-day ADR's. Now, thing is I made sure to calculate my 180 day mark. But MDE was showing me off by one day - a day earlier than I calculated. I was confused but I figured just in case, I'll call to make my reservations. So I called Disney Dining and they also said my day was the next day (same day I had thought it was). However, they decided to try and I got all of my reservations with 0 issues. I had a run of the times I wanted. I chalked up the early day to being a glitch. Now I'm wondering if other people were also able to reserve a day early and if this could have been to inflate ADR numbers.

I don't know about booking a day early for ADRS,, but for our trip in late FEbruary and first week of March, 2020, I was able to get all the restaurants I wanted, on the days I wanted, and at the times I wanted. THAT has never happened before, and I have been a yearly visitor for years. Makes me wonder what's going on? So, no, you and the earlier poster are not alone in this.

 

[tlmadden73]

WDW is kind of like many clothing stores these days. They have a (near) permanent 'sale.'


"Hurry! Buy NOW before the SALE ends!"

Heh. True .. and the more they raise prices the more we will see that. We will see free parking promotions added to hotel reservations or . more of the Mid-Day Magic sales .. which sells the price of an afternoon ticket for the same price as a normal ticket from 6 years ago (yet seems like a steal compared to todays normal prices).

At least they dont emulate these stores (and most fast food restaurants) but running on a bare minimum staff. Disney hire a lot of people to take care of the guests and property. Despite cuts, I feel they still have a good CM to guest ratio.

 

[Tink-osophy]

I think you’re main point of evolving away from unique creativity in favor of IP stuff is valid (that’s how I read it anyway, please correct me it wrong). I just think the studios is a unique case. It was essentially a pet project of Eisner to compete with universal and bring filming to Florida. It didn’t work, and at least there’s finally been something done to address the vacant buildings and the inconsistency in ideology. Just my two cents, but I also feel some of the changes weren’t the best (GMR and taking out the animation academy for example, both needed to be changed and pivot in another direction but not totally gutted imo).

I feel sorta similarly about Epcot. The entire park was based off of corporate sponsorship. In 2019, that’s kinda a waste of advertising for most companies, who can spend far less than on a theme park attraction and reach more people. Not to mention the perspective of corporate America has changed a lot since 1982. Now, does that mean they should throw in the towel and chuck frozen in Norway or guardians of the galaxy in and call it a day? No, but I do think again you have to change the idea behind the park, at least in future world, which clearly wasn’t working. ...

My main point is about the numerous cuts to the reality of the guest's overall experience and the lack of unique creativity in favor of quicker IP fixes is certainly a part of that.

I do take your point that both the 'Studios' and Epcot had lost their way a bit. Interesting point about the corporate sponsorship aspect. too. I hadn't considered that.

The concern though, is the reality of the redirection of HS and, similarly, what might happen at Epcot. What is the new identity? What ties it all together at each park? What's the balance between what they've added and what they've removed? Most importantly, what will the average guest actually experience there?

There's an article on The Dis today about GE: -

"4 Reasons Why Star Wars: Galaxy’s Edge Just Isn’t That Popular"

I want Disney to stay successful. I just think they need to be creative and forward-thinking (whether IP-related or not) without discarding their historic (outstanding) attention to detail in terms of simple guest comfort, as well as entertainment. If anyone can do both, surely it's Disney!

(Also I’m not offended at all, it’s all in good fun! )

 

[umichigan10]

My main point is about the numerous cuts to the reality of the guest's overall experience and the lack of unique creativity in favor of quicker IP fixes is certainly a part of that.

I do take your point that both the 'Studios' and Epcot had lost their way a bit. Interesting point about the corporate sponsorship aspect. too. I hadn't considered that.

The concern though, is the reality of the redirection of HS and, similarly, what might happen at Epcot. What is the new identity? What ties it all together at each park? What's the balance between what they've added and what they've removed? Most importantly, what will the average guest actually experience there?

There's an article on The Dis today about GE: -

"4 Reasons Why Star Wars: Galaxy’s Edge Just Isn’t That Popular"

I want Disney to stay successful. I just think they need to be creative and forward-thinking (whether IP-related or not) without discarding their historic (outstanding) attention to detail in terms of simple guest comfort, as well as entertainment. If anyone can do both, surely it's Disney!

You absolutely won’t hear me argue about guest experience, especially in areas brought up ad naseum in this thread (entertainment and hour cuts, etc)

I think your points and concerns are all valid, and I agree about keeping the overarching theme intact. I see the crisis of identity more being detrimental to Epcot than any other park. Maybe the new rebranding of sections of the park will help? I’m skeptical but am concerned that we’re losing illuminations (which was in need of an update but something I loved) for a show that seems to be quite IP driven. I can absolutely understand your angle when it comes to things like that.

I was listening to the RetroWDW podcast last week (shameless plug, it’s a great listen) and they’re very about old school Disney and such. But they answered a mailbag question about if Disney will create any non IP rides anymore. One of the guys brought up a good point that in 1960ish, there were no IPs to draw from so they had to make their own. Now, there’s so many to draw from that original ideas aren’t necessary technically, though I’d argue that the most magic in Disney attractions are from some of their non IP experiences.

I think you and I are on the same page with a lot here, just coming at it from slightly different angles

 

[umichigan10]

I think the main takeaway from this thread that we can all agree on: Bob Chapek is the worst and needs to go yesterday

 

[YesterDark]

My main point is about the numerous cuts to the reality of the guest's overall experience and the lack of unique creativity in favor of quicker IP fixes is certainly a part of that.

I do take your point that both the 'Studios' and Epcot had lost their way a bit. Interesting point about the corporate sponsorship aspect. too. I hadn't considered that.

The concern though, is the reality of the redirection of HS and, similarly, what might happen at Epcot. What is the new identity? What ties it all together at each park? What's the balance between what they've added and what they've removed? Most importantly, what will the average guest actually experience there?

There's an article on The Dis today about GE: -

"4 Reasons Why Star Wars: Galaxy’s Edge Just Isn’t That Popular"

I want Disney to stay successful. I just think they need to be creative and forward-thinking (whether IP-related or not) without discarding their historic (outstanding) attention to detail in terms of simple guest comfort, as well as entertainment. If anyone can do both, surely it's Disney!

I'd argue that Studios has found their way and Epcot will as well after a few years of work they are planning.

 

[Tink-osophy]

I'd argue that Studios has found their way...

A way, anyway!

 

[Tink-osophy]

You absolutely won’t hear me argue about guest experience, especially in areas brought up ad naseum in this thread (entertainment and hour cuts, etc)

I think your points and concerns are all valid, and I agree about keeping the overarching theme intact. I see the crisis of identity more being detrimental to Epcot than any other park. Maybe the new rebranding of sections of the park will help? I’m skeptical but am concerned that we’re losing illuminations (which was in need of an update but something I loved) for a show that seems to be quite IP driven. I can absolutely understand your angle when it comes to things like that.

I was listening to the RetroWDW podcast last week (shameless plug, it’s a great listen) and they’re very about old school Disney and such. But they answered a mailbag question about if Disney will create any non IP rides anymore. One of the guys brought up a good point that in 1960ish, there were no IPs to draw from so they had to make their own. Now, there’s so many to draw from that original ideas aren’t necessary technically, though I’d argue that the most magic in Disney attractions are from some of their non IP experiences.

I think you and I are on the same page with a lot here, just coming at it from slightly different angles

I can see the sense of (and interest in) both the IP attractions and their 'purer' imagineering and I agree that the most magic still seems to be found in their original creations. Perhaps, they need to combine the two better, as part of their overall vision. ...More imagineering within the IP attractions or, maybe, placing IP attractions within more creative, original "lands". (Just thinking out loud.)

They definitely need to regain their eye for detail in customer comfort and experience.

 

[mickeyluv'r]

No matter how much they raise prices, the parks were too crowded.

What is this, too crowded?

Going back to 1972, WDW has always manipulated where people go when they are at WDW.

I can't even count all the ways they do it!
"Free" table service meal promos = people spend 90minutes eating instead of 30.
Free "bonus" fast passes
Free mini-golf, free arcade time, free pool games

In the parks:

Close some rides early (7pm)/open some late (11am)
Run coasters/boat rides with more/fewer cars/boats
Run shows/parades less/more often
Add/reduce character greets
Add/reduce total park hours
Add/reduce 'special' park hours where only some rides are open
Post phony wait times
seat people quickly/slowly
Add/reduce transportation to/from the parks
Close/open extra bays in the quick serve restaurants
Add a "Festival"
add/reduce street performers
add/reduce photographers
Free stickers, candy, etc.


The term, "Too crowded" is completely subjective. We'd do better to use something more concrete, like standby wait times for a specific attraction at a specific time of day.

Except even specific wait times are EASILY manipulated at every WDW attraction and dining location.

X number of people in MK does NOT = a specific wait at Crystal Palace or Splash Mtn.

*********
Here's another way to consider the matter....

People pay $84.14 for 5 hours of party, which = $ 0.28 per minute.
A bag of 700 Tootsie Rolls ($14) = $0.02 per Tootsie Roll.

Yet how many folks will happily wait in line for a bit of candy?

Maybe they spend 10 minutes of party time for $0.50 worth of candy? If so, that= paying $3 for $0.50 worth of candy! Yet many folks REALLY don't stop to think this through.

WDW just has to call it "FREE!" Halloween candy, and people completely lose track of what they are actually paying for that candy.

But there are limits to how long most people will wait for a handful of candy.

WDW just has to find our sweet spot!

 

[ChrisM]

One thing I'm always super curious about is.. who are these people paying $800-$1000 a night to stay in the deluxe resorts? As an example, I picked a random Tuesday night in early March 2020. Not near any holidays (to my knowledge) and not a weekend, and probably before the Spring Break rush. The cheapest room at the Grand Floridian was $1,000 excluding tax for a one-night stay. And lots of other Deluxe hotels were only slightly cheaper, but when you add in tax and tickets . . . where do all these people get their money from to spend on extravagant holidays?

Maybe it's because I've never stayed in one of these nice and fancy rooms, but can they really be worth it?

I'm willing to spend $1,000/night or more on a resort room at WDW (having done so renting DVC points for a 2 bedroom villa at VGF), but I would never pay that much for a regular hotel room at the Grand Floridian when I could pay a similar amount at the Four Seasons. The difference between the properties is vast. However, if I want villa-style accommodations and be in the "heart" of WDW, I'd have to choose VGF over the Four Seasons.

To myself and my family, accommodations are just as much a part of the experience as everything else on property (and in some cases even more than the theme parks), so we have no qualms indulging in that expense.

"Worth it" is always a matter of personal preference. From a strict cost accounting perspective there are a great many things that aren't truly "worth it". Everyone is different.

 

[mickeyfanachey1999]

What is this, too crowded?

Going back to 1972, WDW has always manipulated where people go when they are at WDW.

I can't even count all the ways they do it!
"Free" table service meal promos = people spend 90minutes eating instead of 30.
Free "bonus" fast passes
Free mini-golf, free arcade time, free pool games

In the parks:

Close some rides early (7pm)/open some late (11am)
Run coasters/boat rides with more/fewer cars/boats
Run shows/parades less/more often
Add/reduce character greets
Add/reduce total park hours
Add/reduce 'special' park hours where only some rides are open
Post phony wait times
seat people quickly/slowly
Add/reduce transportation to/from the parks
Close/open extra bays in the quick serve restaurants
Add a "Festival"
add/reduce street performers
add/reduce photographers
Free stickers, candy, etc.


The term, "Too crowded" is completely subjective. We'd do better to use something more concrete, like standby wait times for a specific attraction at a specific time of day.

Except even specific wait times are EASILY manipulated at every WDW attraction and dining location.

X number of people in MK does NOT = a specific wait at Crystal Palace or Splash Mtn.

*********
Here's another way to consider the matter....

People pay $84.14 for 5 hours of party, which = $ 0.28 per minute.
A bag of 700 Tootsie Rolls ($14) = $0.02 per Tootsie Roll.

Yet how many folks will happily wait in line for a bit of candy?

Maybe they spend 10 minutes of party time for $0.50 worth of candy? If so, that= paying $3 for $0.50 worth of candy! Yet many folks REALLY don't stop to think this through.

WDW just has to call it "FREE!" Halloween candy, and people completely lose track of what they are actually paying for that candy.

But there are limits to how long most people will wait for a handful of candy.

WDW just has to find our sweet spot!

I'm not paying for candy, I'm paying to take my family to a Halloween party at Magic Kingdom. If they want to trick or treat that's fine with me. If they want to wait in line to meet Jack and Sally that's fine with me. If they want to leave at 10 pm then we are gonna have problems!

 

[Q-man]

I think the main takeaway from this thread that we can all agree on: Bob Chapek is the worst and needs to go yesterday

Will this board allow us to call him Cheapek from here on out?