What is a "holiday tree?"

[Skylarr29]

You can't honestly live in the real world today and not see how obvious it is that Christian beliefs are being shut-out in lots of ways. My daughers attend public school here in Virginia and they have studied each year about "Holidays around the World" and with that there is a study of Hanukah (with the emphasis on the "miracle") yet when the study comes to Christmas it only acknowledges Santa (no "miracle" of the birth of Christ). Along with Hanukah they study Muslim holidays and Kwanzaa. I am never offended by these studies but it makes me increasingly aware that Christmas is becoming very taboo.

I agree. I believe in a way Christians are being overlooked. We have to be so politically correct about every other Holiday but yet Christians are not allowed to put up signs that say "Jesus is the reason for the season" or things like that. No other religion actually has a decorated tree in this day in time so there for it is a Christmas Tree!!!

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

It doesn't really matter--holiday is "holy" day anyway.

People have felt the need to celebrate significant days and events since earliest recorded history, and quite likely, even long before that. Most such celebrations, at least until the past few centuries, stemmed from religious beliefs and practices – some of them pagan. They became known as "holy days" from the Anglo-Saxon words "halig daeg." From this religious term evolved the secular term "holiday."

 

[jipsy]

No one is tying your hands together.

Really? I'll be sure to give my boss your email address when I am forced to take off Friday dec 23 and Monday Dec 26 because they are "holidays".

There are those that feel they are forced to do the halloween thing.

Halloween is no comparison - no one is telling you that you must take the day off to celebrate it. No stores are closed, forcing you to make plans around that. It's not even close.

No decor in your house--you are not being forced. You feel persecuted---you got it easy compared to faith groups that were.

Honey if you don't think that other religions have been persecuted in the past worse than Christians you have alot of reading up to do. It was the Christians who did most of the persecuting - even the Bible tells those stories.

Blame the retail industry. They're commercializing Easter as well (church doesn't do anything for that either until Easter Sunday--we keep the pagan symbols to a minimum ourselves).

Again, bless your church. They are not the norm. So many churches try to say that Easter is the true celebration of Christ's resurrection when it is, yet again, another way that the church stole (oh wait, let me re-phrase that, "adopted) other religions celebrations. I bet none of you Christians do Easter Egg hunts do you?

To make a statement that it is intended to include everyone (as they did) is false. I don't need to sit in a meeting for that. Jehovah's witnesses will NEVER be included in that as it is not something they believe (correct me if I am wrong--but they don't celebrate any of that kind of stuff). And do Muslims have holiday trees? I'd name other religions--but my brain is fried right now. Renaming a tree that is at the moment a very traditional symbol of the Christmas (secular or non-secular) holiday....how does it included people that don't use trees?

Once again you are proving my point, thank you LLP. THE TREE IS NOT A TRADITIONAL SYMBOL OF CHRISTMAS, (which CHRISTMAS IS SUPPOSED TO MEAN Christ's birthday), IT WAS A SYMBOL OF OTHER RELIGIOUS AND CULTURAL CELEBRATIONS FOR HUNDREDS OF YEARS BEFORE CHRIST'S BIRTH. Please go study your history.

To be upset that it is not being called a Christmas tree now because people are finally beginning to realize that it is not a true Christmas symbol and has nothing to do with the birth of Christ is what I am talking about. You have no right to be upset about it when it was not your symbol to begin with.




How about Thanksgiving then. I'm sure the Native Americans have forgiven us by now, right?

And I agree with Darksidemoon.

How things came to be--whether through tradition or persecution--it isn't right to punish future generations for it. To say "BOO HOO" is insulting. Giving others the right and freedom of expression--should not include the suppression of others beliefs when there is nothing inherently harmful with those beliefs as they don't affect you. You are not being persecuted because Walmart sells holiday junk. Noone is making you purchase it.[/QUOTE]

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Like it or not, a "Christmas Tree" isn't a Christian symbol - it's a secular practice. Jesus didn't have a Christmas tree, neither did the early church. And I don't think that Jesus would really care what we call the collection of shiny lights that we cram all of our over priced gifts under.

Still noone has told me how Muslims, Jews, and Jehovah's witnesses are included by this name change.

Like it or not--they are no more included than they were before.

 

[Puffy2]

What I find funny is that Bill "you better call it Christmas" O'Reilly has been reporting on these "attacks on Christmas" and not once mentioned that the majority of those he found are coming from the South and not the "ultra-liberal Northeast". Sorry if I've run off track, but I've been thinking about that one.

Did you also know that a Faux News guy has written a book on the whole subject of "Christmas under attack" - yall realize what this really is, don't you?...it's an attempt to make the 80 - 84% Christian majority in this country somehow feel "persecuted" against (yeah, right) so they can be manipulated by fear to vote for more of these radical right lunatics.

 

[phorsenuf]

Once again you are proving my point, thank you LLP. THE TREE IS NOT A TRADITIONAL SYMBOL OF CHRISTMAS, (which CHRISTMAS IS SUPPOSED TO MEAN Christ's birthday), IT WAS A SYMBOL OF OTHER RELIGIOUS AND CULTURAL CELEBRATIONS FOR HUNDREDS OF YEARS BEFORE CHRIST'S BIRTH. Please go study your history.

Legend has it that Martin Luther ( 1483 - 1546) began the tradition of decorating trees to celebrate Christmas. One crisp Christmas Eve, about the year 1500, he was walking through snow-covered woods and was struck by the beauty of a group of small evergreens. Their branches, dusted with snow, shimmered in the moonlight. When he got home, he set up a little fir tree indoors so he could share this story with his children. He decorated it with candles, which he lighted in honor of Christ's birth.

The Christmas tree tradition most likely came to the United States with Hessian troops during the American Revolution, or with German immigrants to Pennsylvania and Ohio, adds Robson.

But the custom spread slowly. The Puritans banned Christmas in New England. Even as late as 1851, a Cleveland minister nearly lost his job because he allowed a tree in his church. Schools in Boston stayed open on Christmas Day through 1870, and sometimes expelled students who stayed home.

The Christmas tree market was born in 1851 when Catskill farmer Mark Carr hauled two ox sleds of evergreens into New York City and sold them all. By 1900, one in five American families had a Christmas tree, and 20 years later, the custom was nearly universal.


It may have started many years priors to Christs' birth, but the tradition has been around for about 500 years. Why do we need to change it now??

 

[jipsy]

Hey don't paint me with your wide brush when it comes to what Christians complain about. We're not all that way. That's why I found some of what you said disrespectful because you assume all Christians think the same. That's not the case, at least not for me. I just don't see why you need to be so sarcastic is all.

I am not being sarcastic I am being real. I walked the aisle when I was 8 years old and gave my life to Christ. I was raised in a very hardcorse Southern Baptist church and home. My parents taught Sunday School and Training Union, my father was a deacon and my mother was a faithful member of the church choir. My sister played piano and we were at church every time the doors were open. I know the Bible like the back of my hand.

When I hit about 25 years old I began to question everything I was ever taught for personal reasons and I began to find alot of flaws in it. As I chose to study what other religious groups had to say, I began to find out that alot of the things I was taught that were "christian" were truly not, but things that were adopted by christians to force other people to believe the same. Think of the crusades, were people were forced to die if they didn't renounce other religions and claim Christ. Christians were a bloody bunch, and in my OPINION, still are today and are in the wrong in many arenas, including religious symbolism. Symbolism is a very powerful thing; this thread is an example. You may not like anything I've said, but you have to admit I have made you think. And if I haven't made you think, and made you question your beliefs on a symbol, then I didn't do my part.

I won't apologize to you phorsenuf, because I didn't single you out. You chose to single yourself out when you posted you found my remarks disrespectful. Now that you have to clarify this remark, you now say you found my remarks disrespectful to you. I never painted you with the wide brush; you chose to take my broad brush remarks personally. Unfortunately, that is your challenge, not mine. I didn't call you out. I still stand by everything I have said.

 

[txgirl]

I did read the thread. And I don't put a tree in my home in relation to CHRISTMAS. Martians have nothing to do with this - this reply is just a typical Christian response - every thing else is a fairy tale let me brush you off like lint on a sweater; you don't know what you are talking about

I completely acknowledged your reference to the history of the Christmas tree. I didn't brush you off or imply that you don't know what you are talking about. Your tone was very condiscending and it definitely brought out my sarcasm (ie: the halloween analogy)

Like I said, I am not affected by the "Holiday Tree" situation but I was questioning why you were "opening our eyes" to the truth about the tree and its origin when that is not really relevant to the changing of the name today.

I don't often post on this board because of the quick-to-bash tendency and I find myself in the middle of it throwing around insults and sarcasm.

As Christians who want to remember the birth of Christ, we must not count on our local Target to evangelize the truth and call the Christmas tree by its name. I'm not sad about the Holiday Tree as much as I am about the bad taste that non-believers have about Christians and their attitudes toward them.

 

[Puffy2]

Still noone has told me how Muslims, Jews, and Jehovah's witnesses are included by this name change.

The only places I've seen the words "holiday tree" have been in government locations (courthouse, city hall, public school) - the term "holiday" is used to avoid the appearance of supporting one religion over another and yet allowing a traditional expression for Christmas.

Businesses use the word "holiday" because it is more inclusive for all their paying customers - those celebrating a religious holiday during the month of Dec. (and there are many besides just Christmas) and those who are not celebrating anything at all. (After all, the majority of folks have a "holiday" in Dec. from work even if they do not worship in a church) - hense the term "happy holiday" applys to most everyone.

In both places, the sponsors of such activities are trying to be nice to everyone - only the obnoxious likes of Bill O'Liely and Faux News are trying to turn the pleasantries into some sort of "us against them" bull.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Really? I'll be sure to give my boss your email address when I am forced to take off Friday dec 23 and Monday Dec 26 because they are "holidays".

And he is being forced by whom? You are compensated, no? So you get paid not to work--and this is bad because why? And your work forbids you to come in? I guess you should find a new job then. My husband's company gets paid time off--but if he's got work to do, he is more than welcome to go in and do it if necessary.

Halloween is no comparison - no one is telling you that you must take the day off to celebrate it. No stores are closed, forcing you to make plans around that. It's not even close.

No--but people are forced to work on Labor DAy.

Honey if you don't think that other religions have been persecuted in the past worse than Christians you have alot of reading up to do. It was the Christians who did most of the persecuting - even the Bible tells those stories.

You are whining b/c you are being "forced" to do stuff. Noone is forcing you to do anything. But do you at least feel included now that it is a holiday tree?

Again, bless your church. They are not the norm. So many churches try to say that Easter is the true celebration of Christ's resurrection when it is, yet again, another way that the church stole (oh wait, let me re-phrase that, "adopted) other religions celebrations. I bet none of you Christians do Easter Egg hunts do you?

Oh my--we do. Call the police!

My church is Catholic--they are pretty adept at remembering the proper reason for their existance. But I'm sure you'll come back and say something about that too. There's a thread for that one as well.

Once again you are proving my point, thank you LLP. THE TREE IS NOT A TRADITIONAL SYMBOL OF CHRISTMAS, (which CHRISTMAS IS SUPPOSED TO MEAN Christ's birthday), IT WAS A SYMBOL OF OTHER RELIGIOUS AND CULTURAL CELEBRATIONS FOR HUNDREDS OF YEARS BEFORE CHRIST'S BIRTH. Please go study your history.

I'm glad we agree--and how does changing the name to a holiday tree--accompish anything? Are these other groups you have educated us on jumping up and down for joy? I think not.

To be upset that it is not being called a Christmas tree now because people are finally beginning to realize that it is not a true Christmas symbol and has nothing to do with the birth of Christ is what I am talking about. You have no right to be upset about it when it was not your symbol to begin with.

You are being condescending to many on this thread. And I'm not upset, btw. I just think that little things here and there open a pandora's box. And you have insinuated that us Christians now deserve what we get as a result (reference your "boo hoo" comment).

 

[jipsy]

Still noone has told me how Muslims, Jews, and Jehovah's witnesses are included by this name change.

Like it or not--they are no more included than they were before.

I don't believe anyone ever said that the term Holiday Tree would include ALL religions, but it is much more inclusive than the term Christmas Tree. I believe that's the point.

 

[jipsy]

Legend has it that Martin Luther ( 1483 - 1546) began the tradition of decorating trees to celebrate Christmas. One crisp Christmas Eve, about the year 1500, he was walking through snow-covered woods and was struck by the beauty of a group of small evergreens. Their branches, dusted with snow, shimmered in the moonlight. When he got home, he set up a little fir tree indoors so he could share this story with his children. He decorated it with candles, which he lighted in honor of Christ's birth.

The Christmas tree tradition most likely came to the United States with Hessian troops during the American Revolution, or with German immigrants to Pennsylvania and Ohio, adds Robson.

But the custom spread slowly. The Puritans banned Christmas in New England. Even as late as 1851, a Cleveland minister nearly lost his job because he allowed a tree in his church. Schools in Boston stayed open on Christmas Day through 1870, and sometimes expelled students who stayed home.

The Christmas tree market was born in 1851 when Catskill farmer Mark Carr hauled two ox sleds of evergreens into New York City and sold them all. By 1900, one in five American families had a Christmas tree, and 20 years later, the custom was nearly universal.


It may have started many years priors to Christs' birth, but the tradition has been around for about 500 years. Why do we need to change it now??

I think you need to read the 4 or 5 paragraphs that were written before your quote, which by the way starts with the phrase "Legend has it..."

 

[Miss Jasmine]

I'm not sad about the Holiday Tree as much as I am about the bad taste that non-believers have about Christians and their attitudes toward them.

What is really sad is that these feeling have been caused by Christians themselves not understanding that not all belong to the majority religion. Just because one is in the majority does not mean it can run all over other belief systems.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

In both places, the sponsors of such activities are trying to be nice to everyone - only the obnoxious likes of Bill O'Liely and Faux News are trying to turn the pleasantries into some sort of "us against them" bull.

FTR I don't watch these guys and place no credence in what htey have to say. From the many threads that discuss Faux News---well, I'm glad I don't watch them.

 

[Puffy2]

I'm not sad about the Holiday Tree as much as I am about the bad taste that non-believers have about Christians and their attitudes toward them.

You are on to something there.

It's even more sad when people like this believer (ie., me) have increasing feelings of distaste for the name "Christian" . That is the direction that this country is going in...where Chrisitans don't want to be associated with "Christains" anymore.

 

[phorsenuf]

I won't apologize to you phorsenuf, because I didn't single you out. You chose to single yourself out when you posted you found my remarks disrespectful. Now that you have to clarify this remark, you now say you found my remarks disrespectful to you. I never painted you with the wide brush; you chose to take my broad brush remarks personally. Unfortunately, that is your challenge, not mine. I didn't call you out. I still stand by everything I have said.

You know what, you're right. You did not single me out, but I still have the right to feel the way I do when I feel I am being criticized just as you do when you feel you are being forced to celebrate a religion.
But I do not relate a tree with Christian symbols.

 

[txgirl]

It was the Christians who did most of the persecuting - even the Bible tells those stories.

[/QUOTE]

Honest question? Why would you quote the bible if you don't believe it to be true?

 

[Miss Jasmine]

You know what, you're right. You did not single me out, but I still have the right to feel the way I do when I feel I am being criticized just as you do when you feel you are being forced to celebrate a religion.
But I do not relate a tree with Christian symbols.

Then why does it matter if it is called a holiday tree.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I don't believe anyone ever said that the term Holiday Tree would include ALL religions, but it is much more inclusive than the term Christmas Tree. I believe that's the point.

I guess I should have included the quote earlier. The city of Orlando did indeed say ALL religions..and it seems they have some history homework to do.

(Emphasis is mine)

ORLANDO, Fla. - It's the time of year when many people are buying trees. But are they Christmas trees or holiday trees? The city of Orlando turned the "holiday lights" on Wednesday evening on the city's "holiday tree."

The city said it wants to include all religions and all celebrations, WESH 2 News reported.

All religions don't use a tree---and coincidentally--not all Holidays are in the month of December.

I am not "upset" as a Christian. I'm just find humour in the ignorance--and though I may not know every precise detail of the precise origins (the part where Christianity "stole" it specifically)...it doesn't take rocket science to see that the government didn't make a wise statement in regards to their choice of words. In an effort to be worldly--they didn't do their proper homework and in this valiant effort...have fallen short of the intended goal.

And from that point of view--that is how I have been writing my responses.

 

[JennyMominRI]

Then why does it matter if it is called a holiday tree.

I guess you could call what I have a holiday tree..I don't deny it's become Christian associated.. As the only follower of JudaismI don't deny my family their beloved holiday of CHristmas..There is nothing of Christian symbolism on the tree and it's main color is blue.. I have Chanukah stuff out in other places and we will celebrate both .