What do you expect FEMA, Governement all levels to do for you in a disaster?

[gottaluvPluto]

Being in hurricane country and my old job as a social worker, people expect the government to take care of them. For example, feed them, cloth them, buy them things and a new place to live. My managers were all for taking advantage of the government and so were our clients. I could tell you stories of how people have three credit cards from Red cross and how they got a lot of food cards. People who had apartments, but didn't want to live in them anymore somehow got FEMA trailors and free rent of 18 months.

As for me, we stock up on water, food and gas. I don't expect the government to hand me anything. If my house was ruined, we would live in a tent on property.

 

[bsnyder]

Some, for sure. However, it is unreasonable to expect corruption and incompetence to magically vanish. We have to live in the real world. So it isn't responsible to put less money into the pot and hope only the constructive and productive uses of the money occur.

You might be willing to be this cavalier about the "stuff" you buy, even if it's a government service. I'm not.

As a nation, how much should be put into the pot? Including all taxes, local, state and national?

I think the current numbers are inching towards $4,000 billion, as a total tax base for the country. Which represents about 30% of the nation's aggregate income.

If you think 30% is too low, what do you think the correct figure should be?

 

[TomLovesBecky]

Not a dang thing. I don't think I will get social security either, I mostly try to not depend on the government for anything at all and so far so good. I mean even the roads around here are messed up!!

 

[Poppinsme]

I'm sorry, but I have to focus on these two things, which in my mind are very related. There isn't some magic switch to make things happen. The issue in New Orleans was that there simply wasn't enough resources. Why? Because there wasn't enough tax money directed in that direction. The availability of resources is a reflection of the public will with respect to how much they want to be taxed (hint: NOT MUCH), so it is not fair to blame elected officials, whether in New Orleans or New York, if the people are unwilling to be taxed sufficiently to provide adequate protection against all possible (and theoretically impossible) disaster scenarios. Mistakes were made in New Orleans (especially by the governor), but the bulk of the negligence was on the part of the people of Louisiana.

Perhaps there is some visceral thrill people derive from attacking leaders who happen to be in charge when a disaster strikes and there isn't enough in place to buffer the impact, but the blame almost always rests mostly with the people ourselves.

YOU are wrong!!!
The levees failed, they broke. Maybe you should complain to the corps of engineers for there shoddy work.
If the levees hadn't broken then yes we would have had damage but nothing like what happened.
And mistakes were made by the president on down to local officials.
A disaster of this magnitude had never happened before in our country and I would never rely on the Gov. for anything after going through Katrina.

I work in health care and will be here in New Orleans for the next Hurricane because thats my job. Saving people.

Please close this thread. It will become like the other, mean and vindictive to wards those of us who went through Hurricane Katrina and GOT NOTHING from the government, but are blamed anyway.

 

[Corryn]

We've always been self-sufficient. Technically, me and DH are "disabled" and yet we still get out of bed each day and go to work when we could easily open up a social security claim and live off that. I work and go to school. As far as Expecting anything from the government, I don't expect much. As others have said, I expect them to maintain order, offer drinkable water, access to emergency medical care, if needed; the basics of being able to live.

We've had hurricane's before. We lived a block away from the Long Island Sound in The Bronx and I couldn't believe how high the water came up - but thankfully we were not flooded out. Here on L.I. we're about six miles away from the coast, but we also have Fire Island, our barrier beach, that acts like a buffer. However, we haven't had a huge hurricane on L.I. for about 90 years. During one hurricane, Hogg Island off the coast of the borough of Queens was completely submerged and is still under water, and the Long Island Express killed many unprepared/unknowing Long Islanders.

If there were a Catagory 4 or 5 hurricane headed up here to L.I. I would gather my important belongings and hop on my FIL's boat (or take the Port Jefferson Ferry) over to my father's house in Connecticut. I would expect to not return to what I would call 'normal'.
Long Islanders are sitting ducks - there's one way in and one way out basically. According to the GPS in my father's car, we are At sea level. Just one mile up the road it's 100 feet above sea level and I think that's the highest point on L.I.
It's laughable that anyone would ever think that we would be able to evacuate everyone off the Island with enough time. The L.I.E. backs up every morning just from regular commuter traffic, forget about evacuation!
Rely on the government to help? Not really. Even before Katrina I was always thinking that I would have to do for myself.

BTW, me and my kids have a plan in case of another 9/11 type of attack, or a Columbine attack, or any attack. We also conducted fire drills here in our home when the kids were smaller, and we even discuss what to do if you're being robbed/assaulted/kidnapped. I've always felt it's better to think about the worst case scenario, try to prepare as best you can and 'scare' the kids than to do nothing at all.
I would hope after 9/11 and Katrina that more Americans became cognizant of what is going on and plan for it as much as possible.

 

[Tink&SquirtsMom]

When I was 7 our house flooded in a flash flood, absolutely no warning and we did not live in a flood plain. Our emergency kit (mainly geared towards earthquakes) was of almost no use in a flood. We could not use our cars, and could not carry out our pets (my parents were already carrying me, my sister, my baby brother, and helping the neighbor teen who was babysitting 2 young kids down the street). So we walked out with the clothes on our backs, and a small emergency pack. We needed transportation to a shelter once we walked to dry land, my mom needed medical care, we had to borrow a phone (no cells then), needed a dry diaper for my baby brother and we needed shelter for one night. We also sent out the rescue people to get my elderly neighbors who couldn't possibly walk out in the rushing water. After that we didn't use anything else for us directly, but there still are the other issues (power, clean water, cleared roads, etc) that we relied on the govt for. We didn't move back home for about 3 months. No matter how self-sufficent you are it's hard to prepare for EVERY eventuality and I do expect our government to assist in times of disaster.

I expect help to evacuate those unABLE to evacuate (not those unwilling, they made their choice). Unable means including those without resources available to evacuate as well as those physically unable. I expect them to clear roads, restore power and clean drinking water as soon as reasonably possible. I expect them to set up safe shelters where people can attempt to contact relatives, regroup, etc. I expect them to assist in getting people their medication in cases where they may have been unable to evacuate with it and pharmacies have also been impacted. I expect them to police the area to prevent looting. I expect them to set up emergency medical care services for all impacted. I expect them to provide clean water, minimal food and toiletry supplies, when stores are closed or emptied and it is not available from other avenues and in cases where people may have been unable to evacuate with all of their emergency supplies or emergency supplies have been exhausted before services have resumed. I expect them to ensure fair and speedy insurance practices (by prosecuting those companies who take advantage of consumers). As well as to ensure that no price gouging or shady rebuilding practices take over the area as it is rebuilding (again by prosecuting those who break existing laws).

 

[bicker]

You might be willing to be this cavalier about the "stuff" you buy, even if it's a government service. I'm not.

No, not cavalier. Just realistic, and I keep things in the proper order. Fixing corruption and incompetence should reduce the drain on the national treasury, which should be followed by a reduction in tax rates. That's wholly separate from the allocation of unallocated revenues for specific purposes, such as for preparing for emergency contingencies.

As a nation, how much should be put into the pot? Including all taxes, local, state and national?

There is no magic number. However, that's non-sequitur. The issue in this thread is whether the benefits of putting in an incremental amount over what is being spent now, to lay the groundwork for preparing for emergency contingencies, would be worth it. In other words, it is worth $1B to do XXX, with a Y% probability of ever needing that protection, and a Z% chance that that protection will actually work. The answer is that taxpayers say no in many cases, and so our government complies with our wishes to leave those additional protections unimplemented.

 

[bicker]

YOU are wrong!!!
The levees failed, they broke. Maybe you should complain to the corps of engineers for there shoddy work.

You misunderstood what I wrote. Regardless, no negligence has been found. The job they did was commensurate with the priority our society placed on doing that job, as reflected by the collective resources expended in that direction.

And mistakes were made by the president on down to local officials.

Mistakes are always made. We aren't governed by automatons. Any emergency preparedness must factor in that the people making decisions are human.

Please close this thread. It will become like the other, mean and vindictive to wards those of us who went through Hurricane Katrina and GOT NOTHING from the government, but are blamed anyway.

I hope not. My perspective is that there is generally much less blame than some folks would like there to be. Bad stuff happens. Society determines how much should be expended to try to prevent bad stuff from happening. Without even judging right-or-wrong, the message is that society generally under-funds emergency preparedness because there is too little pay-off from the standpoint of those who aren't affected by a disaster. No one should like that fact, but we all have to live with it.

 

[Nancyg56]

I know some fires are caused by human error, but most of the house fires I have personally known about in my area were caused by lightning strikes. But whether it is fire, or hurricane, or a meteor hitting your house, that is what insurance is for. And when you live inside a bowl, below sea level, you have flood insurance. Period. Money is tight for everyone, but necessary insurance is up there with mortgage/rent and food and electricity. It's a priority. Insurance didn't pay for flooded homes for people who had no flood insurance. And if you live someplace where it can rain (!) then you should have flood insurance. You just never know, and it's about personal responsibility.

Most of those folks did have flood insurance. One of the arguments that the insurance companies were making is that the wind caused the floods and that negated their flood insurance.

I agree that in a perfect world we all prepare for the worst and we manage ourselves. Our world is not perfect though. We do trust that our tax dollars are allocated to projects that will assist us, it is a tragedy to find that after paying taxes those monies are not always spent in a responsible way. We purchase plenty of insurance and then find out after a disaster that the insurance company has a loophole buried somewhere deep in the policy and will fight paying a claim. So we do it ourselves and find that all of a sudden products and supplies are skyrocketing and contractors cannot be found.

I do not pretend that everyone involved in Katrina was prepared and responsible but the horror stories I saw documenting the inept response from government official andthe corrupt practices of some insurance companies show that in the event of a disaster personal preparedness is only half of the battle. I hope that in my States case the guard that our Governor has fought to keep up to speed in our State is in place and not stationed 1/2 a world away. My taxes were meant to protect my own State yet I really have no say once a decision is made to send them out. I hope that all of the tax dollars, and in CT that is a lot of money, that I pay to ensure that the road crews and equipment in good repair has actually been used in a responsible manner and monies allocated for disaster are still there if needed.


I wonder if some of the issues in NO were becasue of decisions made that the citizens had no control over yet were left to deal with in the aftermath.

 

[barkley]

pretty much that. I'm also all for them helping people in Hospitals and Nursing Homes -- and those disabled and homebound be relocated to somewhere safe.

I want them to get the town running so stores can open and we can get to work. Get the large fallen trees and other debris cleared away so people can move around. Get the power on. Truck in clean water if it is needed.

As for individual help, I feel that is better handled by local charities. They seem to be far better at it and more efficient than the government.

just as a heads up-allot of local (and bigger name national) charities are better at it because they have government staff doing the eligibility determinations and those charities won't aide until a person has been determined ineligible to goverment funds.

when i worked for social services i always thought it was rather interesting when certain disasters occured and the media would 'talk up' how this or that particular charity had responded and was providing for people in need and seemingly doing it in such an efficient manner-what was never publicized was how those charities would instruct anyone who asked for their help that the first step was to come to my office and apply for state and local emergency assistance funds. i and my co-workers would be responsible for determining the needs, income and assetts of individuals and families, docment it, issue any gov. funds or line up any gov. services they might be eligible to-then the people would take that information back to the charities who would use it for their purposes (and often, if they were eligible to even the very minimal resources we had or we found that despite their being in an emergent situation and 'in need' but ineligible to gov. asst. because of their income/assetts-that made them ineligible to those of the charities ).

 

[luvsJack]

A comment about the charities: in the aftermath of Katrina, the caritable organizations that helped the most were churches. Area churches that were able to and out of state churches went above and beyond to offer all kinds of help, everything from cutting trees off houses to providing hot meals, water and ice for people.

Also, everyone keeps talking about "being prepared". And, I fully agree; we should always be prepared. We keep a "hurricane" box at my house and it stays full of things we may need. But it another Katrina hit; those supplies would only last for so long. We had no running water for days, and at my house no power for 6-8 weeks after the storm. My situtation was much different (meaning I was lucky) than those in NOLA or on the Mississippi coast; but you just have to understand that there is a limit to how much you can be prepared.

 

[golfgal]

Nothing. I have insurance. I expect them to give some aid to those who can not afford insurance. When the last hurricane hit Houston, it flooded 3 of my rent houses. FEMA helped them, but I had to bare the expenses of repairs to the houses. My insurance did not include flood coverage.

No homeowners insurance covers floods.

I live in Earthquake land.

I don't expect much except help in finding people buried under buildings (from the first responders, not FEMA), an offer of clean water and food about three days after the quake, and I expect some sort of crisis center for those in need to find family members, insurance reps, and short-term food and shelter for those who have lost housing.

I don't expect long-term housing, I don't expect water or food for the first three days, and I do expect some assistance for an all-clear to go back into our homes and apartments, unless mine is flattened, then I expect clearance at some point to go and get what I can.

I have an earthquake kit in my car. As does my husband. In our home, we have a larger quake kit. We change the water out once a year and we keep bottled water at home that we rotate. I also have added to my earthquake kits as I need: Spare glasses, contact solution, baby wipes (instead of a shower) and lipstick.

Go ahead and laugh, but I do have lipstick in my earthquake kit.

I do wonder if Katrina and the Flooded areas of Iowa are different. They have much more people in each disaster area that may need help. If two people are harmed and misplaced from their home, it is easy to absorb them and get them on their feet. With Katrina, far too many people lost homes, lives, livelihoods, that maybe they need a longer hand out to get back on their feet.

OK, lipstick is a necessity for when the reporter comes up to you and askes "your house is flattened, you lost everything, how do you feel?" You NEED to look good on tv!

I expect them to clear roads, restore utilities, control price gouging etc.

I do not expect them to provide for me, which is what I felt a lot of victims displayed in several recent hurricanes. It is up to me to have a hurricane disaster plan and the supplies needed for my family.

I can appreciate your point, and largely agree with it. but I still think that Mayor Nagle and his staff could have done a lot more. And I'm not a fan of Monday Morning Quaterbacking.... I know it's a lot easier to judge from my comfortable surburban home than from the front lines during a crisis.

For example, the plan to evacuate to the Superdome, with no emergency generators and in a location below sea level. No emergency generators?? In the deep South, where AC is not a luxury for anyone with any sort of medical problems (such as those which might prevent people from evacuating??) This isn't something that was decided upon when disaster hit, this is something that was decided on years in advance. (So maybe Mayor Nagel gets a bye on this one, since he probably wasn't in office when this particular plan was made.) I was only in NO once, so I can't offer a viable alternative, but SURELY there was a better place, or series of places, to send those people who didn't evacuate.

And the evacuation-- let's dwell on that for a minute. You tell residents of a city to evacuate, and make it mandatory. Perfect-- exactly what should have happened. But then you don't provide a way for them to get out of town. Sure, I know that ideally everyone would have made arrangements of their own; I most certainly would have. But let's consider the poor, the elderly, even those who simply didn't have access to a car-- how were they to get out?? Again, hurricane Katrina wasn't a tornado or earthquake; you could see it on a map, approaching the city. Could it have veered to the left or right, and made this whole evacuation a waste of time and money??? Sure. But my thinking is that it would have been a whole lot better an idea.

Should the people have helped themselves instead of waiting for the governement to help them?? The ones who were able, absolutely. Should they have tried harder to evacuate once the order came? Again, absolutely.
But could, and should, the government of NO have made better choices in the days before the hurricane?? Again, my vote is for "absolutely."

The empty buses and the evac plans where for whom? Sorry but there is PLEANTY of blame that can be assessed to the residents of NO. Yes, oveall it was a bad, bad situation but there WAS plenty of warning, there WERE options and people still refused to go. Then they SHOT at the helicopters trying to save them--no, not all, but there were plenty that refused help. Sorry, that is their choice and no one's fault but their own.

FYI: My house burned. A house fire is not an act of God, it is usually human error. I live in the Katrina area. A hurricane is not human error. Two totally different things. Also when my house burned, my insurance company was here within 24 hours. When Katrina left people homeless, the insurance companies refused to pay. People were not asking for a handout, they were asking for a little help with a basic neccesity of life: shelter. And besides, FEMA didn't have the good sence to know what to do with the trailers they bought considering there are hundreds sitting empty about a mile from my house.

They had insurance. IT WOULD NOT PAY. It had nothing to do with personal responsiblity or money being tight or anything else. It had to do with big companies trying to hang on to the money these people paid to them in good faith. The flooding in Mississippi was due to storm surge. The insurance companies were going back and forth about whether that is flood (areas NOT in a flood plan) or hurricane/wind damage. Many people were never given a dime.

Wrong, wrong and more wrong--insurance companies did NOT refuse to pay, people didn't get payments because they didn't have coverage. State Farm was sued and WON over many of these claims. The insurance industry is so regulated that simply cannot 'refuse' to pay a claim. When in doubt the customer get paid. It has been tried over and over in court and the loser is almost always the insurance company.

Some had flood insurance and some did not. Many had been told that they should not purchase flood insurance because they were covered with the insurance they had. You have to remember: there had never been storm surge damage like this before. A lot of them did have flood insurance and it refused to pay. There were many lawsuits and have been some settlements.

Keep in mind that even WITH flood insurance that there is VERY limited coverage, $250,000 MAX. It doesn't matter if you have a $500,000 home, the most you can get is $250,000. Also, flood insurance is a FEDERAL program. You buy it through your local agency but they only do the paperwork and have NO control over how things are paid out.

yes, the actually had flood insurance- the companys couldn't decided whether to blame the damage on the wind/rain or the storm surge...so many got nothing.

WRONG again, they didn't get paid out because they didn't have the right coverage, period. Many of these cases WERE determined to be flooding and they didn't have flood coverage.

I found this interesting- On my honeymoon to Antigua We were talking to a local about what happens for hurricanes. Many are poor and don't have insurance, but after a hurricane hits, the government provides building materials to repair their houses....wood, windows, roofing.

Pretty much what FEMA does only they do it with low interest loans.

 

[luvsJack]

Wrong, wrong and more wrong--insurance companies did NOT refuse to pay, people didn't get payments because they didn't have coverage. State Farm was sued and WON over many of these claims. The insurance industry is so regulated that simply cannot 'refuse' to pay a claim. When in doubt the customer get paid. It has been tried over and over in court and the loser is almost always the insurance company.

Keep in mind that even WITH flood insurance that there is VERY limited coverage, $250,000 MAX. It doesn't matter if you have a $500,000 home, the most you can get is $250,000. Also, flood insurance is a FEDERAL program. You buy it through your local agency but they only do the paperwork and have NO control over how things are paid out.

WRONG again, they didn't get paid out because they didn't have the right coverage, period. Many of these cases WERE determined to be flooding and they didn't have flood coverage.

Pretty much what FEMA does only they do it with low interest loans.

uhhh,, No. Many of these people were told that they did not need flood inurance, they were not in a flood plain. Some did have flood insurance. It wasn't a flood, like the ones in Iowa. Some houses were swept away by storm surge. Not filled with water: gone, only the slab left. They were told that it was considered a flood and that the flood insurance (if they had it) would pay, then they were told no it was wind damage (wind caused the storm surge) and their homeowners would pay it; it didn't. Others were filled with water, again from the storm surge, their insurance did not pay either.

I have many friends and family in the area. I know what they went through.
There are still people living in tents down there because they cannot rebuild the homes that were insured.

ETA: Many Mississipians have had to buy new insurance since Katrina as our homeowners is now saying they will not cover wind damage. So, tell, me why am I continuing to pay out the back end every month for this well regulated wonderfully run scam? They paid a grand total of $5000 on my house to replace a roof, some windows and a brick wall. Luckily I had family that helped us do the work ourselves. Others (2 hours inland, not on the coastline) still have blue tarps on thier roofs, because their insurance didn't pay enough to complete the work needed.

 

[AmberDaClown]

I think a better question is what should FEMA and the government should expect the citizens to do in a disaster. Unless you cannot possibly care for yourself(the very young, the very old or the very sick), are infirm or disabled then there is no reason you cannot get yourself prepared and help your fellow woman.

 

[luvsJack]

I think a better question is what should FEMA and the government should expect the citizens to do in a disaster. Unless you cannot possibly care for yourself(the very young, the very old or the very sick), are infirm or disabled then there is no reason you cannot get yourself prepared and help your fellow woman.

We pay taxes we should be able to expect something from them, not the other way around. Until you have been through it, you have no idea what you will/can do. You have no clue as to the helplessness you would feel in that situation.

 

[AmberDaClown]

We pay taxes we should be able to expect something from them, not the other way around. Until you have been through it, you have no idea what you will/can do. You have no clue as to the helplessness you would feel in that situation.

That is why I mentioned in the other thread that I see inspiration in reading Frankl's "Man's Search for Meaning". When stripped literally of the clothes off their backs, there were men and women who did rebuild from nothing and did not give up or lose hope even in the face of completely helplessness.

 

[luvsJack]

That is why I mentioned in the other thread that I see inspiration in reading Frankl's "Man's Search for Meaning". When stripped literally of the clothes off their backs, there were men and women who did rebuild from nothing and did not give up or lose hope even in the face of completely helplessness.

And that is what most people do after any disaster. The people of my great state banded together, we helped each other and made sure that as many as could be were fed, had water and ice and had clothes and shelter. I am sure it is the same way in any state after a disaster. What I am saying to you is that you have no right to judge anyone until you have walked in thier shoes. Reading about it will not replace living it.

 

[AmberDaClown]

What I am saying to you is that you have no right to judge anyone until you have walked in thier shoes. Reading about it will not replace living it.

And you have no idea just what disasters I have lived through. I have every right. Where is their judgment other than a statement of my believe that it STARTS from the bottom up.

 

[Talking Hands]

Don't expect anything. We have insurance, we have our basic supplies for after a storm and we can and did care for ourselves after Andrew. Only I did get from the governement was a months worth of meds but even that could have been taken care of by us by taking the prescription bottles to another branch of the pharmacy we use.

 

[Castlebound]

Several years ago our town of 3,000 people was hit by a tornado. Nothing on the scale of Katrina or the flooding that is going on right now. Yet when you are hit with a disaster your world gets much smaller. I remember DH and I huddled over our kids in the basement hearing the house groan and the crash of things hitting the house and trees falling. When the worst of the storm was over we decided to see how bad it was. We had no power so it was dark. We could hear water just pouring into the basement. I was so afraid that there was no house left over the basement. We had 4 inches of water in the basement and it was raising. In the end we lost a large section of roof on the front of our house and a smaller section on the back. Because of all the rain we got in the short period of time one corner of our basement sank an inch and caused cracks in the basement walls. We had 6 trees in our yard before the storm and only had one left. The people of our community helped the emergency crews. You could hear chainsaws for days. Our local electric company not the government hired outside contractors to help fix the lines. We were without power for three days. DH and two neighbors grilled food for several people in the neighborhood two days in a row. FEMA did come in and offered free bottled water and tarps. They also offered low interest loans for repairs. My only complaint about the whole thing was how we were treated by our insurance company. It was later determined that we had straight line winds not a tornado. We could show you twisted trees to prove that a tornado did hit. Because it was determined that it was straight line winds the insurance company would only pay for the replacement of the front of my roof. They said that the back was damaged because it was old and needed replaced. They also said that they do not pay for foundation settling as that can happen naturally. It didn't happen naturally and all of my roof was fine before the storm and had at least five more years before it needed replaced. After fighting with them for over a month and finally telling them that we wanted mediation from the state insurance board they settled with us. We still had to do most of the work ourselves because they didn't pay out enough for contractors to do the work. We were not the only ones with insurance horror stories in our area. Thankfully ours turned out better than most.

I expect for the local government and emergency crews to be the frontline during a disaster. They should make sure people are safe and have basic necessities like water and basic food if needed. Fema did not offer here the same type of trailers that they offered NOLA. People here were offered small camping trailers to in live in while their houses were repaired and there was a time limit to how long you could have it. We didn't have one but did see the inside of one. It was pretty basic and for most people that was ok. Beside it made them want to get their homes fixed faster. There were a couple of houses that were flatten and they got to stay in a motel for one month while they got their insurance straighten out. I think FEMA or FHA gave loans the ones who needed new home loans. The renters found new houses to rent.