Well, we can sure tell the school season has started again.....Update, page 8 # 143

[BlueStarryHat]

Sent my five-year-old godson off to kindergarten today with his own cellphone so he can call mom after school when he's safely on the bus, and in case something bad happens at school.

And please with the Founding Fathers quotes. They had no clue at all that AR-15 type rifles and other horrible guns would exist someday when they were writing the 2nd amendment.

 

[sam_gordon]

View attachment 892029
The works of the framers of the Constitution.
View attachment 892031
Especially the guy that wrote the Second Amendment.
Citizens already own tanks, full auto firearms and bombs. My position, which I understand is outside the norm, is that if it's in the government arsenal, it should be available to ordinary citizen. Don't want the citizens to have bombs or full auto firearms, don't have any yourself.

I respect that's your position. I simply disagree with it.

 

[Marrila]

I can only hope the "founding fathers" would look on with horror at the murders of teachers and children.
Surely that was not remotely their intent.
And here we are all these years later seemingly unable to fix an obvious problem.

 

[Dan Murphy]

Speaks for itself. On track for another 600 +/- year this year. Keeping the 'score' going.

 

[HopperFan]

I can only hope the "founding fathers" would look on with horror at the murders of teachers and children.
Surely that was not remotely their intent.
And here we are all these years later seemingly unable to fix an obvious problem.

I totally support THEIR law ~ let everyone have MUSKETS.

They could have never imagined this horror. This indifference to humanity.

 

[cabanafrau]

Considering this isn't really the venue for a sincere discussion of the issues, I just scan for the expected "helpful and concerned" responses from those who never let an opportunity pass them by. Schadenfreude? Nah, couldn't be. That would be unkind in situations of such unimaginable suffering.

Maybe if humanity started recognizing the value of collective wellbeing versus self interest and scoring points to make oneself feel somehow superior to others at every turn something positive might result. It's not like every country on the planet has no need of more kindness and positivity.

 

[AppleDumpling]

Bottom line is it’s a problem in all schools across our country.

Yes, I believe it could happen anywhere in any school. However, within the US, there is a statistical correlation between gun laws and gun deaths (homicides and suicides) by state. It’s no surprise that states with less restrictive gun laws and higher rates of gun ownership (generally red states) have more gun deaths. IMO, we need common sense gun control at the federal level, to keep all of us safer.

 

[Trinity88]

As a Canadian looking in, we have video games, we have absentee parents, we have big schools, small schools, etc. etc. What we don't have is this level of mass shootings. Gun control and government policy matters.

 

[bdrex28]

Sorry, but IT IS THE GUNS!!! Yours is a false narrative being used by the NRA and others.

This doesn't happen in any other civilized country except this one. The reason why? It's WAY too easy to get a gun in this country, whatever kind of gun you want. This kid is 14 years old. How the hell does a 14 year old get ahold of what is basically a weapon of war?

Why does ANYONE need a gun whose sole purpose is to kill as many people as possible in as little amount of time as possible? You can't hunt with these weapons.

Look, I'm not sure how to answer you. My first instinct is probably be pretty rude and direct, but I'll keep calm.

1. you are correct that it's not common in other countries as often. - HOWEVER, none of them have a constitution that has been interpreted as it being a "right". I'm not arguing whether that's right or wrong. I'm not a constitutional lawyer.

2. You are incorrect about what I'm saying and it being a false narrative. There is something seriously wrong with the fact so many people think it's ok to do harm to others. this is cultural and almost exclusively to those under 30 as of late committing these school shootings.

3. All weapons are technically items of war. The AR platform that is civilian has been around and commercially available since roughly 1963 (precursors designed earlier). But the round/ammunition etc is also available and just as damaging in many forms that don't "Look" like a weapon of war.

4. Yes, you can hunt with these. When you see an "AR" you assume many things. what you don't know is what it's chambered in, etc. etc. Would I hunt with one? Not me personally, because I'm a bird hunter (Quail, Pheasant, Dove mostly) and I use an over under shotgun.

5. most importantly and probably the part you missed in your rush to cast judgement is I am for gun control and quite a bit of it. But I also know weapons and the "false narratives" are what many like you seem to believe. At least go educate yourself on the weapons. that doesn't mean they shouldn't be more controlled , it's two completely different things. keep your views on gun control but at least go learn about the weapons, how they function, what they are and the differences between different ones. I'll tell you why: Because when you say things like "kill as many people as possible in as little time as possible" or "you can't hunt with these weapons" then you lose any credibility with any responsible gun owner or someone familiar. If you want to engage in productive debate and conversation then don't make the other person immediately not take you serious by saying false statements.

 

[Bad Pink Tink 2.0]

you are correct that it's not common in other countries as often. - HOWEVER, none of them have a constitution that has been interpreted as it being a "right". I'm not arguing whether that's right or wrong. I'm not a constitutional lawyer.

I just want to make a comment about this. In Ireland , our Constitution was enacted by the People 1st July, 1937 and has been in operation as from 29th December, 1937.

The 1930's in Ireland were a very different time. The Constitution was written to reflect the culture and society of the time. Divorce, abortion, and homosexuality were all illegal and banned by The Constitution. Single women in Government jobs, teachers, nurses and those who worked in civil service had to resign from their job when they married and married women were banned from being employed in these jobs.

Over the years the people of Ireland have voted in various referendums to change The Irish Constitution.

The Fifteenth Amendment of the Constitution Act 1995 is an amendment of the Constitution of Ireland which removed the constitutional prohibition on divorce, and allowed for the dissolution of a marriage provided specified conditions were satisfied. It was approved by referendum on 24 November 1995 and signed into law on 17 June 1996.

The Thirty-sixth Amendment of the Constitution of Ireland is an amendment to the Constitution of Ireland which permits the Oireachtas to legislate for abortion. The constitution had previously prohibited abortion, unless there was a serious risk to the life of the mother. It was approved by referendum on 25 May 2018 and was signed into law on 18 September 2018.

Constitutions can be changed by referendums and updated to reflect how the culture and society of the country has changed since the founding of the country.

 

[starlite_]

Maybe if Americans didn't make it a sport to make guns look cool and brag about how badass they (think they) are waving weapons of mass destruction around then this wouldn't be so prominent an issue.

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

The reason this didn’t happen in yesteryear is really simple……discipline and respect. My father used to tell stories of riding the school bus with a small game rifle for an afternoon hunt, and gun racks in the school parking lots with shotguns or deer rifles in them.

The difference was back then when a kid got out of line the parents and principals got that kid back in line by whatever means necessary. Adults also demanded respect back then as well. I know today no one likes kids being punished or God forbid paddled……but it worked for a long time. My father never got too far out of line, because he knew what would occur at home if he did. The same exact thing held true for me as well when I was growing up.

The internet and violence being normalized on all types of media likely plays a part in this, but lack of fathers being around and holding their kids accountable is certainly in the discussion as well imho. Look I don’t think we should go back to spanking kids at all, but discipline has to return in some form to the school systems.

 

[NotUrsula]

This! This! This!

I never saw a gun fall out in the hallway, but I did watch a boy fiddle with a gun underneath a table in a study hall once. I look back now and think I must have been clinically insane to not run and tell someone. I sat silent. Watching. But I was not scared. We all knew kids carried guns, but we also knew if you weren't affiliated with a gang, you were perfectly safe.

Same goes for the white boys that would hunt before school. Their guns would be displayed in the rear window of their truck in the school parking lot. Almost as a brag that they were hunters. This was still allowed when my brother was in school in the mid 90s!

No metal detectors. No random searches. No mass school shootings. And I guarantee you more guns on school property back then than there are now. A LOT more. But, again. no mass shootings.

Why? What happened?

My semi-rural school in an impoverished and very high-crime town also had a parking lot full of trucks with gun racks. The school made a big deal of putting a 6-foot fence around the parking lot and having a guard check drivers in and out; no one was allowed to go into the lot during the school day unless they had a pass to leave early. Was this to keep the guns away from us? Nope, it was to prevent people from smoking dope and having sex in their cars when they were supposed to be in class.

The whole vibe around gun ownership has changed in the US since the 1970s, and it is all at the feet of the NRA, who have spent decades politicizing the issue so as to have a reason to have a big lobbying operation and enrich the leadership with endless money from gun mfrs and political donors. Recent scandals have the NRA's lobbying operation on the ropes, and hopefully they will stay there, and have the organization go back to their original function as a safety and skills educational group.

As to kids shooting up schools, I firmly believe that the issue is a combination of the epidemic of loneliness, and the culture of celebrity mixed with toxic masculinity. Kids who do this almost all have a desire to be more popular than they are, and tend to do it as a response to some kind of perceived personal failure, whether that is failure to have made solid friends, a wish to escape from bullies, losing a conflict with a parent, failing to get a job or make a team -- it's always something like that. They do it because they want to prove that they are tough and gain a name for being a bad-***, and this is the most straightforward and spectacular way to do it that they can think off. On some level they know they will probably not walk out alive, but because they are adolescents (or immature young adults) the reality that they won't be around to experience the celebrity of being the baddest dude in town almost never really sinks in. This whole fantasy also tends to have a racial component; these young white men (and it's nearly always a young white male) buy into the political narrative that white men are being driven down and unfairly being disadvantaged by women and by minority men, and that belief fuels their anger and frustration with their lot in life, goading them to take the steps necessary to make that hypermasculine fantasy real.

 

[wvjules]

I blame the NRA and the "gun culture" we have in this country lately. Politicians posing with their families while holding weapons of war. Wearing AR-15s on lapels while serving in congress. Caring more about protecting the rights of gun owners than of children in school.

 

[BlueStarryHat]

The people who put 'ha-ha' reaction emojis on my post should take a good long look in the mirror and ask themselves why they thought a sarcastic laugh was an appropriate response to it.

The sentence I just wrote was not what my first instinct told me to write, you should also know...don't want to get myself banned, after all.

 

[TippyThomas]

The people who put 'ha-ha' reaction emojis on my post should take a good long look in the mirror and ask themselves why they thought a sarcastic laugh was an appropriate response to it.

The sentence I just wrote was not what my first instinct told me to write, you should also know...don't want to get myself banned, after all.

The one who keeps doing that has no trouble at all complaining again and again and again and again when it's done to them or others they agree with. Interesting indeed...

 

[bdrex28]

Maybe if Americans didn't make it a sport to make guns look cool and brag about how badass they (think they) are waving weapons of mass destruction around then this wouldn't be so prominent an issue.

I do agree with this.

It's crazy how many pose with their firearms. I shot competitively for long range rifle for many years and never did that, so odd to me!!!

 

[EACarlson]

Constitutions can be changed by referendums and updated to reflect how the culture and society of the country has changed since the founding of the country.

This is entirely correct and the method that needs to be used to fundamentally change the Second Amendment. Come up with a proposal that you can get 290 CongressCritters and 67 Senators to vote for or get 34 states to call for a Constitutional Convention and then we'll see.
Propose something that preserves due process and the Second Amendment that would have prevented this and I'll listen. AT this point there are a ton of unknowns as to how this happened.
One thing I'm not seeing called out at all, the reason the casualty count was so low. As is the case with almost all mass shooters, they stop as soon as they meet armed resistance. In this case there was a School Resource Officer in the building and the shooter surrendered immediately.

 

[BlueStarryHat]

One thing I'm not seeing called out at all, the reason the casualty count was so low. As is the case with almost all mass shooters, they stop as soon as they meet armed resistance. In this case there was a School Resource Officer in the building and the shooter surrendered immediately

Gee, I feel so much better now.

 

[Neapolitan Ice Cream]

Speaks for itself. On track for another 600 +/- year this year. Keeping the 'score' going.


View attachment 892030

If that's true, then it's totally dumbfounding!