Well, we can sure tell the school season has started again.....Update, page 8 # 143

[sam_gordon]

If you believe that no individual should own an AR style weapon, you absolutely do not "firmly believe in the Second Amendment." The entire reason for the second amendment was that the individual citizen should have access to arms equal to the government has. You want me to give up my AR's remove all automatic rifles from every government agency.

Because there is believed to be a right to public education that transcends the rights of others to be safe. It's almost impossible to kick a kid out of public schools.

The relevant issue is how did he get his hands on hit at home? If the parents were negligent in storage, then I'm all for charging the parents. If they kept the firearms in a safe that the kid broke into? Then if we're going to start charging parents for the criminality of their kids, where does it stop? Do we charge and convict the parents of every teenage shooter in the country?

You're assuming the gun was unattended and not secure. You'll have to wait a while before anything factual is known.

I agree with everything but the bolded. First, what source do you have that says that's why the SA was put into place? Second, you're OK with citizens having access to tanks, RPGs, full automatic weapons, and bombs (conventional as well as nuclear)? Sorry, I can't get there.

I'm assuming when the FBI questioned the father/son last year, there wasn't enough information to do anything else. Or should everyone who's questioned about a crime be punished? Hindsight is nearly always 20/20. ETA: This comment isn't directed at you @EACarlson, just a spin off.

 

[rangerxenos]

So many people try to make this a political thing. See multiple posts above tying it to politics.

It's not. Not a single politician for ANY party wants kids or others shooting people.

the problem is greater than the guns, I think it's the kids and their parents in many cases. It's OK to check your kids phone, it's OK to check their internet usage and see what they are doing. it's OK to check their social media. It's OK to ask your kid how they are. They are not entitled to the privacy as kids, IMO.

No one ever wants to address it, they want to blame guns or politics.

Another example: a young woman being beaten by her boyfriend. People are around. Do they help? Nope, they video it and post it to their social media. Seriously? Help them, quit videoing and help. have compassion for others, help those who need it.

But maybe it's time we rip off the band-aid.

It's Parents, It's the kids and it's some kind of value placed on other human beings that isn't being placed today.

If we find out why that has happened then we figure out how to stop it.

There have been shootings at schools going back 100 years, but it's the uptick and a change in these that has been something in the past 30 that's different.

Now, I am all for greater gun control and background checks and refusal to guns for mental health reasons you name it.

But it's not just the guns. It's time to look at more than that and it's time to quit passing the buck.

I'm sorry I'm all over the place on this, I just get tired of the same ole stories.

Sorry, but IT IS THE GUNS!!! Yours is a false narrative being used by the NRA and others.

This doesn't happen in any other civilized country except this one. The reason why? It's WAY too easy to get a gun in this country, whatever kind of gun you want. This kid is 14 years old. How the hell does a 14 year old get ahold of what is basically a weapon of war?

Why does ANYONE need a gun whose sole purpose is to kill as many people as possible in as little amount of time as possible? You can't hunt with these weapons.

 

[jalapeno_pretzel]

You're assuming the gun was unattended and not secure. You'll have to wait a while before anything factual is known.

I mean, if the kid was able to get the gun (which he was), then it wasn't secure. It doesn't matter if it was in some kind of safe, if the kid was able to figure out how to get in, then it wasn't secure. Dad should have made sure kid was unable to access it. The other option is the dad gave him the gun intentionally, which is even worse.

 

[CdnCarrie]

I think lots of things have changed and I really do believe much of it stems from social media and tech. Kids grow up living on their phones now. The communication skills just aren't there anymore. When someone was being bullied before it was visible and for the the most part handled. Kids today (and many adults) have no idea how to problem solve anymore because they don't have to. There are no interpersonal skills. They can just text, cyberbully, get lost in their phones etc... Now feelings are so internalized. Warning signs are missed by parents or other people involved because there is this facade on social media and they are lost in their own world too. There is also the aspect of this instant gratification like, "I want to feel better right now" and so... These tragic things happen.

Yet columbine happened before cell phones.

Oh and did you know there are cell phones in countries where school shootings don’t happen? It’s true.

 

[C&Jx2]

Yet columbine happened before cell phones.

Oh and did you know there are cell phones in countries where school shootings don’t happen? It’s true.

I didn't say that's the whole picture.

You don't have to be so snarky about it.

 

[Dan Murphy]

They were all alive yesterday morning, Now they are not. They were just like you, like me, like your kids, like your grandkids.

Richard Aspinwall-math teacher
Christina Irimie-math teacher
Mason Schermerhorn-14 year old student
Christian Angulo-14 year old student

They were just like you, like me, like your kids, like your grandkids. But now, no longer with us. Why?

 

[sam_gordon]

A different thought... does the size of the school make any difference?

I'm just wondering, if you have a large school (say 1500+ students) is it "easier" for kids to "fall through the cracks?" And before someone says "plenty of large schools don't have shootings", there are also plenty of families that have access to fire arms that don't have members trying to murder others.

 

[CdnCarrie]

I didn't say that's the whole picture.

You don't have to be so snarky about it.

It’s the guns.

It’s not cell phones. It’s not movies. It’s not video games.

It’s the gun culture.

 

[Bad Pink Tink 2.0]

A different thought... does the size of the school make any difference?

I'm just wondering, if you have a large school (say 1500+ students) is it "easier" for kids to "fall through the cracks?" And before someone says "plenty of large schools don't have shootings", there are also plenty of families that have access to fire arms that don't have members trying to murder others.

In Ireland we have very strict gun controls. One of the Dublin universities has a student population of 38,000. The only difference between the Irish students and the American students is the gun laws and gun ownerships.

 

[mi*vida*loca]

I grew up in the inner city. A few years in the 90s my city was considered murder capital USA. Kids brought guns to school in middle school. I saw one kid drop his gun in the hallway, pick it back up and keep walking. Easy access to illegal guns in the area made guns a regular thing. We had no metal detectors back then.

Yet mass school shootings never happened and still rarely, if ever happen in the inner city. It seems it is mostly a suburban white male issue.

So how can this be fixed and what truly is the problem ?

 

[Bad Pink Tink 2.0]

So how can this be fixed and what truly is the problem ?

As a tourist to America for the last 20 years, Ive done a lot of self educating about American history and culture.

To me, the change has to come from within. It has to come from the NRA, and those within the organization who are in the 1% club who lobby the Federal Government and are the big donators to the political parties.

If the NRA and the 1% people change their views, their followers will change their views. Until then, the continuation of the current gun laws will be more important that the safety of children in school.

 

[kdonnel]

A different thought... does the size of the school make any difference?

I'm just wondering, if you have a large school (say 1500+ students) is it "easier" for kids to "fall through the cracks?" And before someone says "plenty of large schools don't have shootings", there are also plenty of families that have access to fire arms that don't have members trying to murder others.

I think it goes both ways.

Large schools do make it possible for a kid to get lost in the shuffle but a large student body also makes it easier for a kid to find a friend group that fits which can make or break a kids high school experience.

My kids attended a high school with 4000 kids. We often talked about what it was like attending school with so many people.

They both said it never felt like they were at school with that many except at class change and dismissal. Otherwise they started and ended their high school years with roughly the same 150-200 students in their classes. Their were clubs galore though and that was where they saw different kids and found some of their closest friends, people who were not in any of their classes.

 

[Pink Partridge]

I grew up in the inner city. A few years in the 90s my city was considered murder capital USA. Kids brought guns to school in middle school. I saw one kid drop his gun in the hallway, pick it back up and keep walking. Easy access to illegal guns in the area made guns a regular thing. We had no metal detectors back then.

Yet mass school shootings never happened and still rarely, if ever happen in the inner city. It seems it is mostly a suburban white male issue.

So how can this be fixed and what truly is the problem ?

This! This! This!

I never saw a gun fall out in the hallway, but I did watch a boy fiddle with a gun underneath a table in a study hall once. I look back now and think I must have been clinically insane to not run and tell someone. I sat silent. Watching. But I was not scared. We all knew kids carried guns, but we also knew if you weren't affiliated with a gang, you were perfectly safe.

Same goes for the white boys that would hunt before school. Their guns would be displayed in the rear window of their truck in the school parking lot. Almost as a brag that they were hunters. This was still allowed when my brother was in school in the mid 90s!

No metal detectors. No random searches. No mass school shootings. And I guarantee you more guns on school property back then than there are now. A LOT more. But, again. no mass shootings.

Why? What happened?

 

[wallawallakids]

School size doesn’t matter. My friend’s kids went to Freeman HS in Rockford WA. They had a school shooting while her kids were there. They were lucky and lived. They have a total enrollment of less than 300 kids. You are not safer in a small rural school. Bottom line is it’s a problem in all schools across our country.

 

[pezgirlroy]

Is that the ONLY reason they don't want kids?

I definitely know a few folks that this is a major reason why they have decided not to have kids.

 

[C&Jx2]

I grew up in the inner city. A few years in the 90s my city was considered murder capital USA. Kids brought guns to school in middle school. I saw one kid drop his gun in the hallway, pick it back up and keep walking. Easy access to illegal guns in the area made guns a regular thing. We had no metal detectors back then.

Yet mass school shootings never happened and still rarely, if ever happen in the inner city. It seems it is mostly a suburban white male issue.

So how can this be fixed and what truly is the problem ?

This! This! This!

I never saw a gun fall out in the hallway, but I did watch a boy fiddle with a gun underneath a table in a study hall once. I look back now and think I must have been clinically insane to not run and tell someone. I sat silent. Watching. But I was not scared. We all knew kids carried guns, but we also knew if you weren't affiliated with a gang, you were perfectly safe.

Same goes for the white boys that would hunt before school. Their guns would be displayed in the rear window of their truck in the school parking lot. Almost as a brag that they were hunters. This was still allowed when my brother was in school in the mid 90s!

No metal detectors. No random searches. No mass school shootings. And I guarantee you more guns on school property back then than there are now. A LOT more. But, again. no mass shootings.

Why? What happened?

Right. It’s not JUST the guns. Is accessibility and lack of accountability a HUGE part of this? Yes. But there is more to it.

 

[mi*vida*loca]

This! This! This!

I never saw a gun fall out in the hallway, but I did watch a boy fiddle with a gun underneath a table in a study hall once. I look back now and think I must have been clinically insane to not run and tell someone. I sat silent. Watching. But I was not scared. We all knew kids carried guns, but we also knew if you weren't affiliated with a gang, you were perfectly safe.

Same goes for the white boys that would hunt before school. Their guns would be displayed in the rear window of their truck in the school parking lot. Almost as a brag that they were hunters. This was still allowed when my brother was in school in the mid 90s!

No metal detectors. No random searches. No mass school shootings. And I guarantee you more guns on school property back then than there are now. A LOT more. But, again. no mass shootings.

Why? What happened?

Same. I was never scared. I knew the only people that got shot were those who were in that life. Unless you had the random innocent bystander get shot but that didn’t happen often.

I think big issues are the parents (they blow off their nut case kid as being “different” instead of getting him help), kids don’t know how to regulate their emotions, social media has kids not knowing how to deal with basic issues and basically everything @C&Jx2 said.

 

[monsterkitty]

Yet columbine happened before cell phones.

Oh and did you know there are cell phones in countries where school shootings don’t happen? It’s true.

Actually, there were cell phones during Columbine. The school I taught at was about 25-30 minutes away. We had a medical emergency at our school, and I attempted to call 911 on my cell phone but the system was overwhelmed. This has been the case in many school shootings since - overwhelmed systems.

When I hear people say their children must have a cell phone in case of a school shooting, I tell them of our experience.

I do agree that other countries have cell phones in addition to video games, yet the school shootings seem to be a US problem.

 

[CdnCarrie]

Actually, there were cell phones during Columbine. The school I taught at was about 25-30 minutes away. We had a medical emergency at our school, and I attempted to call 911 on my cell phone but the system was overwhelmed. This has been the case in many school shootings since - overwhelmed systems.

When I hear people say their children must have a cell phone in case of a school shooting, I tell them of our experience.

I do agree that other countries have cell phones in addition to video games, yet the school shootings seem to be a US problem.

Yes but in this context they are referring to smart phones and social media. Not the basic phone of the 90s.

No one in Columbine had an iPhone.

 

[EACarlson]

I agree with everything but the bolded. First, what source do you have that says that's why the SA was put into place? Second, you're OK with citizens having access to tanks, RPGs, full automatic weapons, and bombs (conventional as well as nuclear)? Sorry, I can't get there.

The works of the framers of the Constitution.

Especially the guy that wrote the Second Amendment.
Citizens already own tanks, full auto firearms and bombs. My position, which I understand is outside the norm, is that if it's in the government arsenal, it should be available to ordinary citizen. Don't want the citizens to have bombs or full auto firearms, don't have any yourself.