WDW's Coaster Phobia

[JimmyV]

Now see- you have presented 2 different arguments!!!!! I completely agree with the above!! But- at first you said you wanted a true modern thrilling coaster and now you say you want something a little bit edgier than EE.......well- that's a big difference.

I don't agree. You only assumed as much. As Joshua points out below, the phraseology is inherently vague and for that I am at fault.

Can we retire the phrase "true, modern thrilling coaster," since it is a completely vague, arbitrary, and useless phrase? Some of you seem to think that it only includes record-breaking roller coasters that push the boundaries of what coasters can do, when in reality all anyone has asked is why Disney doesn't build more rides like Rock 'n' Roller Coaster or Revenge of the Mummy, which both completely fit the definition of being modern and thrilling. It's perfectly acceptable to not want a roller coaster at Disney, but to alter the conversation so that the argument suits your rhetoric is specious and only serves to derail the topic.

But that is the only way that I could describe the goal and get people on the same page, which I think most people are. The discussion began after several threads that bemoan the fact that the 7DMT isn't "more". Again, WDW never promised that it would be, so there is no blame to cast there. If people had over-inflated expectations, that is their fault, not Disney's. But the question becomes, in a theme park universe where rides keep getting more and more thrilling, why does Disney spend 3x as much to build another Barnstormer wrapped in a mountain? I think that something a bit edgier than EE is a true modern, thrilling coaster. You don't. Can't do anything about that. Disney doesn't have to build Kraken. It does not have to challenge Cedar Point as the coaster capital of the world. It does not have to set records. But disparage it as you might, California Screamin' is a bigger, higher, faster, longer coaster than anything at WDW, and in my opinion, WDW deserves something at least in line with that. Maybe they missed their opportunity when they didn't build one in Dinoland. For all the crying out about "theming", people ignore that the California Pier theme at DCA and the Roadside Attraction theme of Dinoland are largely interchangeable. A coaster the likes of California Screamin' would have fit right in. Primevil Whirl was a bad compromise.

And I do have to disagree with something you stated. You commented that WDW is no place for a coaster like Cheetah. I haven't ridden that, so I don't know the "thrill factor" of it. But from the photos you posted, it is a beautiful coaster with great lines and not out of proportion with the parks, height-wise. No, it wouldn't fit into Epcot or the MK. But give it an African theme and run it through dense foliage and I am certain that the Imagineers could make it work at AK. Or put it out in the Backlot of DHS and let the Imagineers go all "Pixar" on it and I am sure that it would work. Never say never.

 

[CounselorX]

Because it over-shoots their demographic. Mission:Space is a good data point on this. Most of the adrenaline junkies I know really like M:S. But, it's a $100M dud in terms of guest demand. It has *never* drawn well in Epcot, to the point that they had to neuter half of the ride just to get its numbers high enough to justify its existence. Yes, some people get sick on the ride, but I went through a phase of motion sickness a few years back and even during that time I could ride Orange with no hassles.

Another example: Tower. It's a tier 2 attraction for a reason.

You could argue that building more thrill rides would give them critical mass to attract enough people to justify them, but they get better ROI by serving their demographic. 7DMT has wait times consistently double anything else in the park, despite the fact that some call it "disappointing." TDO is laughing all the way to the bank.

I don't think the M:S point is very valid.

I love coasters. The more thrilling, the better. The bigger the drops, the faster the speed, etc.

That being said, I don't care much for Mission Space. It's not a roller coaster, and that's why it's a "dud."

 

[JoshuaShaw]

But that is the only way that I could describe the goal and get people on the same page, which I think most people are.

I wasn't disparaging your initial usage, rather the way the anti-thrill ride crowd has re-purposed it to fit their own argument, without acknowledging the fact that an attraction can be modern and thrilling without being 400 feet tall and going 120+ mph.

 

[agame2323]

I'm a roller coaster junkie and I have and would travel to a place for just ONE coaster. Traveling around to find that one ultimate ride is part of the beauty of being a coaster fanatic IMO.


Again, while the few coasters Disney have right now are great introductions for little ones and folks who cant handle the more intense coasters, there is a whole section of my family that feel like they aren't thought about in the grand scheme of things at Disney.

A lot of families have huge age ranges and for that tween/teen/young adult demographic that want more thrills its kind of sad that they are the forgotten bunch. It's either tell them to suck it up and try to make the most of it OR split your vacation with another park costing you more money.

First of all... I find it hard to believe that any true Coaster Junkie would go to Disney of ONE Coaster. With ticket prices and crowd levels being the why they are... I can't buy into that.

You could put Millennium Force in Disney but I highly doubt any Coaster Junkie would pay that Disney's prices JUST to ride that coaster.

 

[asmit4]

I may be in the minority here- but I can safely tell you----Once my son hits around 9 or 10yo....DW will lose me 100% as a guest. There simply isn't enough 'thrill' for a preteen boy at Disney as it stands at this time.

Frankly- my husband and I are 34yo and for us- the bigger the faster the better- so we will welcome our time at Universal and Cedar Point I LOVE DW for their fantastic theming but the time will come when theming is not going to cut it.

Perhaps 2 parents with a 12yo boy is not DWs demographic....and that's ok....but we will be going elsewhere.

 

[Kimosabe]

Now- on to Cheetah-----first time I've heard of this!!!! After reading the stats I would put Cheetah Hunt in the moderately thrilling category right along with Expedition Everest.

I don't know jack-squat about Cheetah Hunt itself, but that sort of theming would fit seamlessly into DAK. Theme it around Scar and the hyenas from Lion King if you want a movie connection, or theme it around dinosaurs and find a place back in Dino-Land for it (to give a major attraction in each of the four "corners" of the park, once Avatarland is in place, too). Ideally (at least in my feeble mind), make it a "flying" coaster like Manta at SeaWorld, so that the riders are positioned on their bellies like a lion/hyena running or a pterodactyl flying after prey, and, whammo, DAK is more than a full-day park without any argument, with this addition, Avatar and the new night show. Frankly, something like this wouldn't even have to be at some mindlessly insane thrill level, but enough to get people (including kids) interested.

I am a big fan of DHS, have lots of ideas for how to overhaul that park and want nothing more than to see it built out with Star Wars and Pixar, but I'd be willing to delay my plans for DHS (ha!) if they said they were committing the effort to putting in a ride like this at DAK, simply to get DAK "finished" in most people's minds. I can appreciate that DAK was never intended to be a ride-heavy park, but come on...just one more!

 

[JimmyV]

I wasn't disparaging your initial usage, rather the way the anti-thrill ride crowd has re-purposed it to fit their own argument, without acknowledging the fact that an attraction can be modern and thrilling without being 400 feet tall and going 120+ mph.

It's all good. I got your intent. I do shoulder some blame for the use of non-objective criteria. But I think that I have said clearly enough that my OP was not intended as a battle cry for a Top 10 Coaster. Or a plea for the creation of a plethora of coasters. And you got that. So did most others. But no matter how many times those thoughts are presented, there will always be people who have to chime in and say that WDW is no place for ten new coasters that go 120+ mph with 400 ft drops. Can't fight ignorance. People see what they want to see.

 

[JoshuaShaw]

But no matter how many times those thoughts are presented, there will always be people who have to chime in and say that WDW is no place for ten new coasters that go 120+ mph with 400 ft drops. Can't fight ignorance. People see what they want to see.

Don't forget, first Disney is going to demolish every family attraction they have. Because apparently it's all or none.

 

[JimmyV]

California Screamin is not a "true, modern, thrilling roller coaster"....it's just a country mile long!!!!! Having said that....California Screamin' actually ranks as the 8th longest roller coaster in the world!! It's 1.15 miles or 6072 feet in length ---- the ride duration is 02:36 -----and the coaster is not made of wood ----it's made entirely of steel and clocks in at 55 MPH [/YAWN]!!!!! But- it does have an inversion and Neil Patrick Harris does the countdown and safety spiel!!! I can't find one picture that could fit this whole coaster. One would think that the lines for this coaster would be long..... but a poster here previously mentioned that there's barely a line!!!!!!!! This should be the most popular ride in the park but it's not!!!!

CS is always a walk on? Guess my 3 trips over 3 years to DLR prior to the renovation being completed were just total anomalies, because it wasn't a walk on when we rode it.

Let's examine this a bit more closely. There is a tendency to equate DCA with the parks at WDW. But for whatever reason, they are not comparable. For example, both parks have a Toy Story Mania. At WDW, it is a "run to" attraction and the expected wait times today (according to TP) will range from 18 to 79 minutes on a Crowd Calendar day of "7". Out west at DCA, on a day when the Crowd Calendar is predicting a "9", the expected wait times for TSM range from 12 minutes at opening to 32 minutes at peak. How about Soarin'? At WDW, the wait times will range from 15 at park opening to 92 on a day when the crowd at Epcot will be an "8". At DCA, the wait times start out at 10 minutes and peak at 30. And this is on a "9" day. What of California Screamin'? 12-18 minutes. Is that a short wait time in comparison to RnR? Sure. But when TSM is 32 minutes and Soarin' is 30 minutes, 18 minutes is not a dead "walk-on". That park just doesn't build crowds. If you are going to argue that CS is an unpopular attraction that should be torn down, then you could say the same thing about TSM and Soarin'. 30 minutes on a "9" day? Get rid of 'em!

 

[TooExcitedCantSleep]

Alright then- let's head back down memory lane JimmyV!!!!

Several threads have been started bemoaning the fact that the 7DMT did not meet expectations, and people are quick (and accurate) in pointing out that any expectations of a thrilling coaster were misplaced. Let's address a different question.

Why won't Disney add a true, modern, thrilling coaster to any of its parks?

Here- you ask in your first post ......."why won't Disney add a true, modern, thrilling coaster to any of it's parks???? This suggests that you hold the opinion that Disney does not have any "true, modern, thrilling coasters." And- I agree with that assertion. I don't believe that Disney has any.

Perhaps the "it doesn't fit with the overall theming" works for the MK. But with four parks and expansion going on at a couple of them, isn't there room for one, single, solitary world class coaster?

Here once again- you make the argument that Disney can make room for just "one, single, solitary world class coaster."It is very obvious that you don't feel that Disney has a world class coaster.....and I happen to agree.

RnR isn't bad.

I completely agree. I don't see where you said this ride was a world class coaster----- and why would you???? RNR is not a world class coaster.

And it draws huge crowds. So it is a tough sell to suggest that Disney's demographic doesn't want or need such rides. As has been pointed out in the "Disney is the attendance king" thread, there is far more attendance crossover with Universal than there is uniqueness in client base. The people who go to IOA on Tuesday don't all of a sudden despise coasters when they enter a Disney park on Wednesday.

No qualms here....moving along.

Imagine what a true kick-butt coaster could do for the image of the future. They aren't that expensive compared to some of Disney's higher cost attractions.

Right here- you say "imagine what a true kick-butt coaster could be for the image of the future." A true kick butt coaster!!!!!! Then you make note of the cheap cost compared to Disney's themed coasters. It's very crystal clear to me that you are not talking about anything currently at WDW.

Add some external theming and wham! You have a buzz-worthy new attraction.

Here- you mention again that the coaster will need "external theming." Disney ride don't ever have to "add" external theming!!

Isn't there room for one honest to goodness thrill coaster that is equal to what its neighbors offer? When Sea World has coasters that put Disney to shame, isn't there room for one new thrill ride? Somewhere?

You ask the same question again in a different way....this time comparing Disney's current offerings to another park by which you contend the other parks put Disney to shame!!

You obviously haven't been to Busch Gardens in Williamsburg. They have great looking, themed coasters. Would EE tell less of a story if its highest drop were 3 times higher? How about California Screamin'? Why is that a Disney-approved coaster, yet they won't put something like that in Florida. Is WDW unworthy of a coaster the likes of CS?

Here- you suggest that EE's highest drop should be three times higher. EE's highest drop is 80 ft so that would amount to a 240 ft drop!!! Let's define Hypercoaster ---- A hypercoaster or megacoaster according to Intamin can mean one of two things:

• Any continuous-circuit roller coaster with a height or drop measuring greater than 200 feet

Or, more narrowly:

A style or model of roller coaster with three features:

• A height of 200-299 feet or 61-91 meters
• Lacks inverting elements
• A full circuit coaster with a lift hill, not a launch

• The world's first hypercoaster, Magnum XL-200 at Cedar Point

The Magnum XL-200 at Cedar Point opening in 1989....7 years before EE.... it was the tallest coaster in the world at 205 ft------the longest drop of 195ft and it cost $8 million to build. Disney does not have a single megacoaster......not even close!!!! Megacoaster today like the Top Speed Dragster pictured right behind the Magnum have 400 ft drops!!!!

CS is a modern thrilling coaster.

Now- you say that CS is a "modern thrill coaster!! I completely disagree with this!! There is nothing modern or thrilling about that coaster- imho. The post completely contradicts with your initial post!!!

If it "fits" Disney in CA, there has to be some way that a more thrilling coaster can fit in FL. And look at your $$$ numbers. $100M for EE and $20M for mega coasters at other parks.

Here- you acknowledge the low cost of mega coasters!!

You don't think that Disney can't beautify a $20M coaster with $50M in window dressing to fit a needed theme?

You even suggest that Disney build a $20 million dollar megacoaster and add $50 more million to cover it up with a theme!!

And there is no way that a thrill coaster overshoots the demographic. The people who go to WDW are not a separate group of people than the people who go to Sea World. Or Universal. The crossover is huge. How many people ride Kraken who do not also step foot into WDW? Kraken riders are Disney guests. 99% of the people who ride Dueling Dragons also visit WDW. They aren't going to ride Hulk one day and distain a Disney coaster the next. WDW doesn't have to be coaster-centric. We're talking about one....just one! world class coaster. And return on investment is not the measure. There is no ROI in the Under the Sea ride or with Tangled Toilets.

"One just one world class coaster", says JimmyV!!

Fair enough. "Real roller coaster" is a fuzzy term. Brian has been kind enough to give us the rankings of several coasters worldwide. So Let's start there. Forget the phrase "real" and substitute in: "A coaster that would crack the Top 30 in the world." It wouldn't have to set records or best everything at Cedar Point. But how about something in the 25-30 range instead of the 110-125 range. Earlier post edited to now read: "...more thrilling coasters" instead of "real coasters".

Yes- I complete agree that "real roller coaster" is subjective.....there are people who may feel BTMRR or 7DMT is a real coaster. With that said- your first post was not fuzzy!!!! You were very very clear about what you wanted Disney to build!! Now- that you have altered your initial complaint completely.....we have nothing else to discuss!!!!

 

[JimmyV]

Now- you say that CS is a "modern thrill coaster!! I completely disagree with this!! There is nothing modern or thrilling about that coaster- imho. The post completely contradicts with your initial post!!!

Your entire tirade boils down to this one difference of opinion. The statement cannot contradict my initial post if I believe in the underlying premise. Want it stated differently to suit your agenda? OK. So the question becomes: Why won't Disney build something like CS at WDW? Now, if you want to argue that CS is "too much" for people to handle, OK, have at it. Or if you want to argue that CS is not daring enough and WDW should go further, then have at it. But you cannot re-write my question to suit your needs. You do not think CS is a modern, thrilling, world-class coaster. I have ridden it. 20 times. I think it is. Thus, I did not alter my original post. You just don't think that my initial post captures a coaster the likes of CS. I can't alter your opinion, but mine has not changed throughout any of this. And I am done with your rebuttals because I don't want this discussion shut down. Take it private if you want to continue to jab at me.

 

[JoshuaShaw]

Now- you say that CS is a "modern thrill coaster!! I completely disagree with this!! There is nothing modern or thrilling about that coaster- imho.

LIM technology, while not brand new, is still very much modern.

 

[mickeyluv'r]

So because it would be boring for you to not ride it, it shouldn't be built so other people can enjoy it....

Close, but that's missing my main point. WDW's expertise is attractions with broad appeal across many demographics, not me personally.

Disney is so expert at drawing a broad demographic (plus the rest of the MCO area), that the Orlando area is well know in the restaurant business as a concept proving ground. If it sells in Orlando, it sells across America and beyond.


May I suggest watching a few Disney commercials. That's the image they want to project.

 

[TooExcitedCantSleep]

Disney can easily install a ride like Cheetah Hunt in Animall Kingdom. The tower can be hidden inside a mountain. The rest of the ride is relatively low. It can be placed somewhere at the perimiter of the park and run into the surrounding empty land. Just have the start of the ride visible similar to Busch Garden's setup.

I rate it somewhat higher than Everest. No chain lift. There are three "launches" similar to RnR Coaster, simulating a cheetah's acceleration while hunting. One spiral roll inversion. Busch Gardens has no themed waiting area, but Disney can certainly build an awesome one.

Everest currently is my second favorite coaster in Florida after Cheetah Hunt. I think something like Cheetah would be a great addition to AK.

Jim

As much as I would like to dislike Cheetah Hunt ----- I am liking it more and more. There is something so unique about this coaster.....it appears to be very underrated!!!! The idea of wrapping a mountain around the tower is so clever.....that could really work!! You are right- that the coaster sits very low to the ground so it will have minimal impact on sight lines!! I find it to be very interesting that this is a launch coaster with three launches!! And- the drop is 130 ft. so yes- this is much more thrilling than EE and it's a nice long coaster at 03:30. I would be completely okay with this at AK!!

 

[MaryKatesMom]

I wasn't disparaging your initial usage, rather the way the anti-thrill ride crowd has re-purposed it to fit their own argument, without acknowledging the fact that an attraction can be modern and thrilling without being 400 feet tall and going 120+ mph.

Yes, and I think WDW can do it. Universal's Forbidden Journey is not at coaster, or anything but it beats the pants off anything at WDW for thrills.

I think nit-picking is just trying to derail the arguement. If you can't make a discussion point pick apart someone elses.

First of all... I find it hard to believe that any true Coaster Junkie would go to Disney of ONE Coaster. With ticket prices and crowd levels being the why they are... I can't buy into that.

You could put Millennium Force in Disney but I highly doubt any Coaster Junkie would pay that Disney's prices JUST to ride that coaster.

A PP has already said, hard core fans WILL go for just one ride. The point is that not everyone in the family has to ride but it would be nice for everyone in the family to get something they enjoy.

I may be in the minority here- but I can safely tell you----Once my son hits around 9 or 10yo....DW will lose me 100% as a guest. There simply isn't enough 'thrill' for a preteen boy at Disney as it stands at this time.

Frankly- my husband and I are 34yo and for us- the bigger the faster the better- so we will welcome our time at Universal and Cedar Point I LOVE DW for their fantastic theming but the time will come when theming is not going to cut it.

Perhaps 2 parents with a 12yo boy is not DWs demographic....and that's ok....but we will be going elsewhere.

When parents with sons started to complain that there wasn't enough for them to do, I thought they were right and we started to see more boy stuff. Even though I have girls and wouldn't have use for them I still saw them as legitimate so I really don't agree with the - Well I won't ride them so I don't think they should be there arguement.

As I said above, WDW doesn't have to all rides for everyone in the family but everyone in the family should have something there to enjoy.

 

[JoshuaShaw]

First of all... I find it hard to believe that any true Coaster Junkie would go to Disney of ONE Coaster. With ticket prices and crowd levels being the why they are... I can't buy into that.

You could put Millennium Force in Disney but I highly doubt any Coaster Junkie would pay that Disney's prices JUST to ride that coaster.

I'm just going to put this here:

 

[TooExcitedCantSleep]

I don't know jack-squat about Cheetah Hunt itself, but that sort of theming would fit seamlessly into DAK. Theme it around Scar and the hyenas from Lion King if you want a movie connection, or theme it around dinosaurs and find a place back in Dino-Land for it (to give a major attraction in each of the four "corners" of the park, once Avatarland is in place, too). Ideally (at least in my feeble mind), make it a "flying" coaster like Manta at SeaWorld, so that the riders are positioned on their bellies like a lion/hyena running or a pterodactyl flying after prey, and, whammo, DAK is more than a full-day park without any argument, with this addition, Avatar and the new night show. Frankly, something like this wouldn't even have to be at some mindlessly insane thrill level, but enough to get people (including kids) interested.

I am a big fan of DHS, have lots of ideas for how to overhaul that park and want nothing more than to see it built out with Star Wars and Pixar, but I'd be willing to delay my plans for DHS (ha!) if they said they were committing the effort to putting in a ride like this at DAK, simply to get DAK "finished" in most people's minds. I can appreciate that DAK was never intended to be a ride-heavy park, but come on...just one more!

My heart just skipped a beat!!!!! I wouldn't know what to do if Disney built a Lion King coaster!!!! A coaster themed around Scar and the hyena's is an amazing, magnificent idea!! The flying aspect like superman is great too!! AK could use another coaster or three. Isn't it a shame that we didn't know about this Cheetah Hunt until now???? Cheetah Hunt was built in 2011....I love Disney World as much as the next person but it's also good to explore other places!!!! Look at what we're missing out on. Ha!!!! I'm already on board for Star Wars and Pixar at DHS!! But, what about poor Epcot.....I know it's the least likely park to get a coaster but I sure wouldn't mind!!

 

[leebee]

Alright then- let's head back down memory lane JimmyV!!!!
Here- you ask in your first post ......."why won't Disney add a true, modern, thrilling coaster to any of it's parks???? This suggests that you hold the opinion that Disney does not have any "true, modern, thrilling coasters." And- I agree with that assertion. I don't believe that Disney has any.
Here once again- you make the argument that Disney can make room for just "one, single, solitary world class coaster."It is very obvious that you don't feel that Disney has a world class coaster.....and I happen to agree.
I completely agree. I don't see where you said this ride was a world class coaster----- and why would you???? RNR is not a world class coaster.
No qualms here....moving along.
Right here- you say "imagine what a true kick-butt coaster could be for the image of the future." A true kick butt coaster!!!!!! Then you make note of the cheap cost compared to Disney's themed coasters. It's very crystal clear to me that you are not talking about anything currently at WDW.

Here- you mention again that the coaster will need "external theming." Disney ride don't ever have to "add" external theming!!

You ask the same question again in a different way....this time comparing Disney's current offerings to another park by which you contend the other parks put Disney to shame!!

Here- you suggest that EE's highest drop should be three times higher. EE's highest drop is 80 ft so that would amount to a 240 ft drop!!! Let's define Hypercoaster ---- A hypercoaster or megacoaster according to Intamin can mean one of two things:

• Any continuous-circuit roller coaster with a height or drop measuring greater than 200 feet

Or, more narrowly:

A style or model of roller coaster with three features:

• A height of 200-299 feet or 61-91 meters
• Lacks inverting elements
• A full circuit coaster with a lift hill, not a launch

• The world's first hypercoaster, Magnum XL-200 at Cedar Point

The Magnum XL-200 at Cedar Point opening in 1989....7 years before EE.... it was the tallest coaster in the world at 205 ft------the longest drop of 195ft and it cost $8 million to build. Disney does not have a single megacoaster......not even close!!!! Megacoaster today like the Top Speed Dragster pictured right behind the Magnum have 400 ft drops!!!!
Now- you say that CS is a "modern thrill coaster!! I completely disagree with this!! There is nothing modern or thrilling about that coaster- imho. The post completely contradicts with your initial post!!!
Here- you acknowledge the low cost of mega coasters!!
You even suggest that Disney build a $20 million dollar megacoaster and add $50 more million to cover it up with a theme!!
"One just one world class coaster", says JimmyV!!
Yes- I complete agree that "real roller coaster" is subjective.....there are people who may feel BTMRR or 7DMT is a real coaster. With that said- your first post was not fuzzy!!!! You were very very clear about what you wanted Disney to build!! Now- that you have altered your initial complaint completely.....we have nothing else to discuss!!!!

You make no sense at all, and provide no logical argument whatsoever. You are, however, a wizard at twisting what is said and using exclamation points!

FWIW, although DD had ridden all of Disney's coasters, her first major coaster was the Magnum 200 at Cedar Point. She got in line with her dad, uncle, and cousin. Off they went. I walked down around the corner, saw the first hill, and was sure that she'd be totally terrified and NEVER want to go on another coaster again. Guess what? She LOVED it, and couldn't wait to ride again. Oh yes; she was eight years old at the time. I honestly think many of Disney's visitors could stand something a little more thrilling than EE!

(and we have a terrific picture of her, screaming her head off as they come down that first hill, her braids standing straight up in the air!)

 

[TooExcitedCantSleep]

Your entire tirade boils down to this one difference of opinion. The statement cannot contradict my initial post if I believe in the underlying premise. Want it stated differently to suit your agenda? OK. So the question becomes: Why won't Disney build something like CS at WDW? Now, if you want to argue that CS is "too much" for people to handle, OK, have at it. Or if you want to argue that CS is not daring enough and WDW should go further, then have at it. But you cannot re-write my question to suit your needs. You do not think CS is a modern, thrilling, world-class coaster. I have ridden it. 20 times. I think it is. Thus, I did not alter my original post. You just don't think that my initial post captures a coaster the likes of CS. I can't alter your opinion, but mine has not changed throughout any of this. And I am done with your rebuttals because I don't want this discussion shut down. Take it private if you want to continue to jab at me.

I'm not taking a "jab" at you, JimmyV.....not at all. I just want you to be more clear because you are confusing me. You said one thing in post 1 and now you just want something "a little edgier" than EE and I don't believe that. I really liked your first post.... it's just that I can't see Disney building a coaster without the "fake rocks".... and megacoasters are too big to cover up and coaster junkies love air time....they don't like their megacoasters covered up!! I think something like Cheetah Hunt is a very nice compromise.

 

[JoshuaShaw]

and megacoasters are too big to cover up and coaster junkies love air time....

These two things are irrelevant. Air time has nothing to do with how tall a coaster is. Air time is achieved on Space Mountain, a mild roller coaster.