WDW to prevent AP holders from visiting parks many mornings

[Ms Bibbidi]

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[Ms Bibbidi]

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[AnnaKristoff2013]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but the incred-pass is the expensive, no limit pass. The Epcot after 4 was very reasonable price, but only Epcot, and only after 4.
The good thing is there were no blackout dates. Not even weekends.

Yeah, I hope I am wrong, but the idea is that WDW can make morning reservations so hard to get for AP's (especially at peak times) so that the incredipass starts to function more like an "after 5" pass.

 

[AnnaKristoff2013]

I agree.

I agree as well, however the Disney Insider on the other forum thinks, that disney thinks, that this solves the lawsuit issue. (Sorry if that sentence was hard to read!)

 

[Ms Bibbidi]

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[Sandisw]

I understood you. Do you think it adequately addresses the lawsuit issue? Obviously I do not. The calendar is expressed in days, not hours. Problem is it would take a lawyer who is also a passholder to preserve enough evidence to show the methodical throttling. Then good luck finding a law firm and lawyers who “get it” if they are not DisBoard level Disney fans.

The Disney insider was gently challenged on this but his response, IIRC, was to say no passholder would sue over getting less than a full day park reservations. I think Disney knows it does not pass muster. They have smart lawyers too. But this sounds like Disney is screaming at their lawyers over huge dollars in lost revenue so this is some kind of Department Head to Department Head compromise. The “in the trenches” layers who still practice law are just hoping nobody sues. Disney knows there is risk, but is willing to take the chance.

I had a thought. I definitely don’t think it bypasses the lawsuit.

However, I bet there are plenty of AP holders out there who don’t actually use the full day and don’t actually go in the morning

It is possible that having this option would leave enough AP opening for full days in a way that whatever behind the scenes moves if spots isn’t enough to cause an issue.

As I said, I have an Epcot and MK reservation booked for my trip in 10 days, and won’t be enter either of those parks before 2 pm.

Now, obviously if all of a sudden lots and lots of AP holders say they can never get in for the morning it won’t fly..but they have to have data on what % of AP holders are entering at what times.

 

[Ms Bibbidi]

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[Ms Bibbidi]

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[AnnaKristoff2013]

I understood you. Do you think it adequately addresses the lawsuit issue? Obviously I do not. The calendar is expressed in days, not hours. Problem is it would take a lawyer who is also a passholder to preserve enough evidence to show the methodical throttling. Then good luck finding a law firm and lawyers who “get it” if they are not DisBoard level Disney fans.

The Disney insider was gently challenged on this but his response, IIRC, was to say no passholder would sue over getting less than a full day park reservations. I think Disney knows it does not pass muster. They have smart lawyers too. But this sounds like Disney is screaming at their lawyers over huge dollars in lost revenue so this is some kind of Department Head to Department Head compromise. The “in the trenches” layers who still practice law are just hoping nobody sues. Disney knows there is risk, but is willing to take the chance.

I think it's pretty much this. I also think that Disney is understimating the potential for additional lawsuits if they do this, but who knows. They're losing so much money by blocking out the guests that they actually care about that they're probably willing to take the risk.

 

[Ms Bibbidi]

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[MICKIMINI]

This speculation just makes me sad. Goodness, it should not be this difficult to go to my "happy place". We finally were able to get AP's in 2021 and now DH and I are talking about the possibility of resort vacations and buying a day ticket or two. We spend about $300-500 a day for four adults just for meals times 21-30 days a year. I know we aren't the only DVC AP family to spend (that does not include merch and we spend there too). AP deadbeats, not!

 

[Sandisw]

I just wanted to add that a single incident is enough to breach. It does not take lots and lots of passholders shut out of mornings.

My point is it will be much harder to prove that they have been shut out when a pass has no guarantee that each day has to be a full day.

Again, I just don’t agree that APs have to be what they always have been and Disney has every right to make the product what they want it to be. They are simply required to make it clear what you are buying which is why the lawsuit happened because the terms were deceptive to the buyer.

People may not like that type of product but if it says that your access to the park may or may not include the whole day then you go in knowing that. If it doesn’t work for you, you don’t buy.

I agree that that can’t advertise unlimited days if they intend to make them partial days. But as long as they say every day can be limited ahead of time? Fair game.

But to be honest, I think they are more likely to get rid of the traditional AP, make them yearly passes with x days, outside of block out dates. This way, you are not guaranteed admission beyond that. And then additional days for afternoon or evening admission.

For example, the Sorcerer pass could be good for 100 days a year, with block out days..but includes another 100 days a year that allow admission after 2 pm.

And, last year when they changed the passes, they gave those with gold passes or renewal certificates already purchased a few weeks to activate with those terms. After Sept 8th, all certificates would be converted because the Gold pass program ended.

They can do that again. I think at this point we just see it differently in terms of what they can do moving forward.

Again, it has nothing to do with the lawsuit currently in play but rather the lawsuit has forced Disney to come up with a different product if they want to keep the reservation system in play and want to use a bucket systeM.

ETA. They can’t decide tomorrow that all APs in existence will no longer receive entry before 2 pm because they have now changed the terms. They would be forced to grandfather passes. But they can certainly add to the park system to allow for afternoon and evening bookings as a way to enhance options for the AP holder even if it is more for Disneys benefit to do so.

 

[Ms Bibbidi]

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[ScubaCat]

However, I bet there are plenty of AP holders out there who don’t actually use the full day and don’t actually go in the morning

It is possible that having this option would leave enough AP opening for full days in a way that whatever behind the scenes moves if spots isn’t enough to cause an issue.

I sometimes come into town for a week or 2, stay off site (or an all star), work out of my room all day, and go to a park in the evening. As it stands now, I regularly use what is now an all day park pass for just a few hours and sometimes can't switch if I change my mind but my new choice is full. It'd be a great way for them to open additional day-of capacity without mid day overcrowding, and is something I'd certainly take advantage of.

 

[Ms Bibbidi]

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[Sandisw]

Depends on how they roll out afternoon entry options.
For people who have an Incredi-Pass -- with no blockouts and all day entry -- no obvious benefit.
For Sorcerers -- does this allow afternoon/evening entry during Thanksgiving or Christmas when the parks are very crowded? I doubt it.
For Pirates -- does this allow afternoon/evening entry during the blocked out holiday periods. Again, I doubt it. Those are busy times. That is why they are blockout days.
For Pixies -- same logic except including blocked out weekends.

So, if the blockout dates are already the busy times -- when does this allow room for the "optional" afternoon/evening entry?
If these are to be used on non-blockout dates, but the dates are "unavailable" (but they are still selling the spots to ticketed and resort guests?) then it would allow a reservation when there was no "availability." So, that means they would be blocking passholders who were eligible to go, but couldn't get a park reservations -- but they still had availability. But they are still doing ticket sales and resort reservations all day? Doesn't seem fair -- or legal for that matter.

So that leaves the possibility of just adding this like the old "Epcot after 4" -- but for all parks at noon or 5:00 p.m.? A separate new tier of annual pass?
Is there a price incentive?

Is this regular or whenever Disney decides to put them up like bonus reservations. Short notice? Day of reservations?
Did you know that when they schedule bonus reservations on weekends for Passholders that Pixie passholders cannot get the park reservations? Nope. They are still blocked out.
So, if you cannot use these on any block-out dates and the holidays are very busy times -- when would this ever be a useful thing when the passholder could get a regular all-day reservation?
Unless ... they short the Passholder buckets significantly and intentionally and favor ticketed guests only. So, passholders become afternoon and evening guests - prioritizing the cooler, more comfortable morning hours for higher paying guests. That would create a situation where passholders would want afternoon entries - but should be getting all day entries.

There is one way this could work to benefit Disney by making more efficient use of park capacity. That would be to offer passholders and cast members afternoon or evening entries, but only under one condition -- if they got rid of the two bucket system. If they only had one bucket of availability, then it would work. Then, with their reservation system, they might know when to expect afternoon or evening capacity and passholders -- especially local passholders -- could fill that in.

If these were put out there as additional reservations one can hold, then it benefits everyone.

If someone with an Incredi pass can hold 5 reservations at once…then that is all they can hold…outside one site reservations.

If this a gives them extra..say 5 more then..it is a benefit.

And I am not talking as last minute bonus ones but booked in advance like the current reservations can be booked.

If the assumption is that Disney will use this to eliminate all day entry for pass holders in a devious way, then sure. I simply don’t think they will.

As I said, they have data and it very well might show that enough pass holders enter afternoons and evenings that these options would increase reservations that can be offered to AP holders for full day entry. That is something none of us know

If an AP holder is taking a full day slot from another AP holder when they intend to go only in the afternoon, I just don’t see how anyone can think that this additional option wouldn’t be a good thing for all AP holders.

I think of it as a third bucket. Currently there are no restrictions to park hop after two. These afternoon reservations would reducing the park hopping spots, not the current AP spots.

 

[Ms Bibbidi]

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[Ms Bibbidi]

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[Ms Bibbidi]

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[RoseGold]

The more I think about this, the more this sounds like it came from the JD+MBA trying to creatively shut out the APs. Just convert them all to after 5, everyone will still love us. They're lucky we let them in all.

I changed park reservations twice on my last trip, on the fly. Not peak crowd, no big deal. What a disaster if I was then stuck with after 5. I'd literally go badge in and then hop. Ugh.

The piece missing here is the hopping reservation. That's got to be next.