WDW Summary of NEW DAS changes and Disney Genie - Post ONE is an updated summary

[mshanson3121]

Phone CMs are notorious for giving out bad information…I would take anything they say about not being able to use DAS for IA$ rides with a grain of salt.

Yes, which is why I said I'm hoping she's wrong. But to be honest, for the reasons above, I'm honestly not expecting her to be. But who knows, maybe Disney will pleasantly surprise me.

 

[SueM in MN]

This is a screenshot from the WDW DAS website info. It specifically says that guests using DAS can hold one DAS Return Time and one Boarding Group for a virtual queue at the same time.
My guess is that the CMs are literally true for attractions using Boarding Groups/virtual queues.
Guests would not be able to make a DAS Return Time for those attractions, but can use DAS for access IF they have a Boarding Group and their Boarding Group is called.

 

[lanejudy]

DAS is a courtesy

Not exactly. They must offer reasonable accommodations to make the attractions accessible. Requiring payment to use the accessible entrance while there is a free entrance that is not accessible is not "reasonable." The very fact that there is another entrance which is accessible makes the charge an unreasonable requirement for a disability; if there wasn't another entrance, they could get away with denying DAS.

 

[OurBigTrip]

Yes, which is why I said I'm hoping she's wrong. But to be honest, for the reasons above, I'm honestly not expecting her to be. But who knows, maybe Disney will pleasantly surprise me.

Also, I disagree that Disney could legally exclude IA$ from DAS return times. If there is a free option available, which standby is, and if the free option is inaccessible to someone due to a disability, then the ADA would require that an accessible option be available without cost.

 

[zacharyleo34]

*** JUST CONFIRMED VIA PHONE CM*** who did go check with a supervisor:

All IAS rides WILL be excluded from DAS. Not just advance selection, but day of as well. The only options will be standby or purchasing an IAS.

I'm REALLY hoping she's wrong. But... quite honestly, I fully expect this to be true. I've also emailed DAS as well, so we'll see if I get the same info.

Something about this doesn't sit right with me at all. If I'm understanding correctly this means folks with accommodations will not be able to ride the ride without paying a fee (as DAS is supposed to be for those who can't make it through a standard line for x, y, or z)... and that's discrimination? Right? Am I off base here?

I get the impulse though, as I'm sure a lot of people will flock to DAS to attempt to get around Genie+... but I would be shocked if this were true. I've also had a lot of phone CMs say out of pocket stuff that was plainly not true, so I'd take it with a grain of salt.

But those attractions are inaccessible due to physical limitations in the design. I would argue that it being accessible only through an extra-pay entrance and inaccessible through the "free" entrance is not meeting ADA.

This, this, this. I compare this in part of how venues can't legally charge more for ADA accessible seating in a venue. What they would be doing is charging someone who would be in a standby line otherwise money to be able to have access to the ride due to their disability (if I'm comprehending all of this information correctly).

 

[SueM in MN]

This is from the Disney Parks Blog information that was released announcing the 10/19/21 Genie start date.
Disney Parks Blog


EDITED TO ADD: people have posted in various forums/Facebook pages that CMs have told them NO ONE could ride any of the Individual Lightning Lane Selections unless they paid. This is clearly incorrect from what Disney has published on their website in multiple places (I only screenshotted one).

 

[lanejudy]

DAS is essentially doing "standby" and entering through a different door. It is not front of the line, reduced wait, special access, whatever. The new info also specifically states DAS Return Times are "comparable to the current standby wait."

Attractions with a virtual queue (like Remy) will not offer a DAS return time because there is not standby wait. If a disabled person obtains a boarding group for the VQ, then they can request DAS access. At this point, Remy is the only I$LL attraction, though there may be more/others in the future.

 

[mshanson3121]

Not exactly. They must offer reasonable accommodations to make the attractions accessible. Requiring payment to use the accessible entrance while there is a free entrance that is not accessible is not "reasonable." The very fact that there is another entrance which is accessible makes the charge an unreasonable requirement for a disability; if there wasn't another entrance, they could get away with denying DAS.

Also, I disagree that Disney could legally exclude IA$ from DAS return times. If there is a free option available, which standby is, and if the free option is inaccessible to someone due to a disability, then the ADA would require that an accessible option be available without cost.

Something about this doesn't sit right with me at all. If I'm understanding correctly this means folks with accommodations will not be able to ride the ride without paying a fee (as DAS is supposed to be for those who can't make it through a standard line for x, y, or z)... and that's discrimination? Right? Am I off base here?

I get the impulse though, as I'm sure a lot of people will flock to DAS to attempt to get around Genie+... but I would be shocked if this were true. I've also had a lot of phone CMs say out of pocket stuff that was plainly not true, so I'd take it with a grain of salt.



This, this, this. I compare this in part of how venues can't legally charge more for ADA accessible seating in a venue. What they would be doing is charging someone who would be in a standby line otherwise money to be able to have access to the ride due to their disability (if I'm comprehending all of this information correctly).

Again. Disney is NOT legally required to make 100% of its park accessible, hence they very much legally can exclude a mere 2 rides per park. I agree the information from the CM may not be correct. But legally, they can do this if they choose to embrace the PR nightmare.

 

[mshanson3121]

We'll I'm 2/2 now... both CMs have said no - to advance or day of. So maybe some others will call and see what they're told? lol

 

[OurBigTrip]

Again. Disney is NOT legally required to make 100% of its park accessible, hence they very much legally can exclude a mere 2 rides per park. I agree the information from the CM may not be correct. But legally, they can do this if they choose to embrace the PR nightmare.

I disagree that they can make any ride inaccessible if there is a reasonable way to make it accessible, and DAS is that reasonable way.
I agree 100% that the pay to play rides shouldn’t be available as pre-selections, and I agree 100% that if anyone with a DAS wants non-DAS access to the LL (Genie+) they should have to pay for it.

but flat out denying access unless you pay? No way that would fly legally.

 

[jlundeen]

Again. Disney is NOT legally required to make 100% of its park accessible, hence they very much legally can exclude a mere 2 rides per park. I agree the information from the CM may not be correct. But legally, they can do this if they choose to embrace the PR nightmare.

But why would they.... if people wait for free in one place, why would they not allow people with disabilities to wait for free in another place, as long as structurally the ride can accommodate the person?

 

[mshanson3121]

But why would they.... if people wait for free in one place, why would they not allow people with disabilities to wait for free in another place, as long as structurally the ride can accommodate the person?

I'm guessing to cut down on the incentive to abuse DAS. If those premium rides are available free through DAS, there will definitely be an uptick in abuse, as has been discussed ad nauseum, lol.

I'm hoping they're wrong. This would be a big blow for our family.

 

[OurBigTrip]

I'm guessing to cut down on the incentive to abuse DAS. If those premium rides are available free through DAS, there will definitely be an uptick in abuse, as has been discussed ad nauseum, lol.

I'm hoping they're wrong. This would be a big blow for our family.

The two advance freebies are more of an incentive to cheat than this, IMO.

 

[DVCkidsMOM]

I basically agree with both sides, but I'm not going to worry about it until I'm on site with a DAS guest. It doesn't matter what any CM says other than the one at the Lightening Lane/DAS entrance at the time we are trying to schedule that specific experience. We'll see...
And this is also one of those things that may change anyway with time and experience of Genie actually functioning in the parks.

 

[Evita_W]

The the ILL$ rides are not included in the Advanced Planning selections for DAS. No word yet on whether a regular day-of DAS return time can be booked for the ILL$ attractions. I expect they will be since there is a standby wait time posted (except for Remy).

If it has a standby line (i.e. not boarding groups), I would think it would have to be available for a DAS, just not necessarily to book in advance. Now, I could see them treating these attractions slightly differently and saying for those attractions, you have to go to the attraction to get a return time, but I don't think they can exclude them from the DAS completely, as anyone without a disability could go and get in the standby line, so someone with a disability that would prevent that from being possible/feasible would then be excluded from the ride and that would not be equal access.

 

[mshanson3121]

The two advance freebies are more of an incentive to cheat than this, IMO.

Are they though? If you lie you not only don't have to pay $15 pp for GP+, per day, but you also don't have to pay for LL (if those rides are included).

 

[Evita_W]

Again. Disney is NOT legally required to make 100% of its park accessible, hence they very much legally can exclude a mere 2 rides per park. I agree the information from the CM may not be correct. But legally, they can do this if they choose to embrace the PR nightmare.

Actually, that isn't true at all, they have to make as much of the park accessible as is possible, they cannot exclude 2 attractions just due to wanting to make more money, if they have a virtual queue and no standby line, sure then everyone is on an equal playing field, but if there is a standby line, the DAS has to be an option, as long as there is an alternative entrance.

 

[Evita_W]

Are they though? If you lie you not only don't have to pay $15 pp for GP+, per day, but you also don't have to pay for LL (if those rides are included).

Actually, assuming GP+ is similar to MaxPass+, it would be worth every penny for those with a DAS to still get it, it makes a huge difference and helps a lot. Not for everyone, depending on needs, but for a lot of people who need a DAS, it is still very beneficial.

 

[jlundeen]

Are they though? If you lie you not only don't have to pay $15 pp for GP+, per day, but you also don't have to pay for LL (if those rides are included).

People who wait in the standby queue for G+ and ILL attractions also do not have to pay. Why would it matter where you wait?

 

[Evita_W]

Here is what people have to remember, ADA requires businesses (including theme parks) to provide accommodations at no additional cost to the customer (or guest in this case), so as far as the DAS goes, here is what ADA would have to say about this:

If a Guest without a disability can do the following:	A guest with a disability would have to be allowed the following:
Get a Virtual Queue or pay for a single use lightning lane and come back to a stand by wait time (or have lightning lane access if paid)	Get a virtual queue or pay for a single use lightning lane and use a DAS to have an alternative place to wait for an equal amount of time or less (or have lightning lane access if paid)
Use a stand by queue at no additional cost	Be able to use a DAS at no additional cost to provide an alternative place to wait.
Can only access the attraction by paying and coming back to a stand by time	Must still pay to access, but when returning must be offered an alternative place to wait.

In short, if someone without a disability can wait for an attraction without a boarding group or paying, then the DAS must provide a return time, anything short of that would be violating ADA, unless Disney completely overhauled the access system and then it would be based on whatever the new system is, but it would still need to provide access without additional costs. And since there is a Lightning Lane at the individual paid LL access attractions, there is a feasible alternate entrance, so the exception I am about to mention cannot be applied here.

Allowable exceptions are if it is not technically possible to make something accessible, for example a fun house with a moving floor would not be technically able to be accessible; however, even under those circumstances as much as can be made accessible must be. Let's take the fun house example, say the beginning and end cannot be made accessible, but there is a large section in the middle that can be accessed through an alternate entrance and exit, then that must be done.