WDW resort going forward

[lockedoutlogic]

When you check in ask what time you can dine in, pick the hotel's signature restaurant. In what world is it OK for the clerk to "scold" you, telling you that you should have made a reservation 6 months ago?

This statement stinks so bad it doesn't need comment (but of course I have one)...and it's 100% true

 

[lockedoutlogic]

wdw needs more dark rides based on their classic animated films such as bambi, sleeping beauty, jungle book, beauty and the beast and the lion king

Ok....
Next!

 

[jon18uk]

Some of the "amenities" Disney believes guests demand, and maybe Disney is correct, aren't the amenities guests at a 5* hotel would typically expect. I'm thinking of coin operated laundry machines. Refillable mugs. One poster was upset when bell services wouldn't loan them a cart.


Service at POP exceeded my expectation of service. Service at deluxe resorts did not meet my expectations. Service at moderate resorts was close to meeting expectations.

Yes, I wouldn't expect refillable mugs or coin-op laundry in a five star hotel, these services should be done for you (for a charge of course). Although I would expect a snack bar or quick service food outlet or at least 24-hour room service for snacks. I would also expect a choice of table service restaurants and for the front desk to make my reservations at check in for the week ahead, something Disney cannot do as the restaurants are so heavily used by guests staying at other resorts.

As you say Disney Value resorts exceeds expectations generally, the food courts are far better than any other low end hotel would offer for restaurants. And moderate hotels are what I expect at Disney, good food court, nicely themed surroundings, some entertainment, good service.

Generally other than being closer to the parks and better transport (monorail or walk to Epcot) I don't see anything really drawing me to stay at a deluxe hotel over a moderate.

Oh and Saratoga Springs and Old Key West despite Disney advertising then as deluxe villa accommodation, I don't see them as any better than a moderate, except for the fact they have kitchen facilities in the rooms. This is probably why (in the UK at least) these two resorts are discounted down to the same price as Port Orleans.

 

[Reddog1134]

In this case, yes

Stay at a value resort. Meal time. Walk over to the food court and get in line. Exactly what you'd expect.

Stay at any Disney deluxe resort. When you check in ask what time you can dine in, pick the hotel's signature restaurant. In what world is it OK for the clerk to "scold" you, telling you that you should have made a reservation 6 months ago?

I can see Disney attempting to fix this by allowing resort guests to make dining reservations early at the resort they are staying in.

 

[Tigger's ally]

Might just be that people are equating cost with star status.

I know none of the Disney Hotels are 5 star. And yes, some of them have room rates that are even higher than 5 star. But, how many 5 star hotels have the MK or Epcot a short walk away? How many 5 stars have free transportation pull up at the front door?

When I stayed at BWI in Feb, I knew what to expect for my money and I got exactly what I expected. I also got a fabulous location, a nice view and the ability do many things just a short trek away.

Now then, if you want 4 star, maybe you should get a room at the 4 seasons. If you want 5 star, there is a Waldorf in BC.

I don't think it is a bad thing to let the franchises that are used to providing a 4 or 5 star experience, do just that. After all, it is their specialty. Disney's is to provide a wide array of choices. Having both the four seasons and Waldorf now on the property, Disney is indeed providing that wide array.

 

[nkosiek]

I can see Disney attempting to fix this by allowing resort guests to make dining reservations early at the resort they are staying in.

But they've had their chance to do this and they haven't.

Also, the argument is that if you're staying at a DELUXE hotel you should be able to go to the concierge and have them find you a spot at the restaurant(s) within that hotel sometime that week.

 

[Lewisc]

And moderate hotels are what I expect at Disney, good food court, nicely themed surroundings, some entertainment, good service.

Interior corridors are an "industry standard" for hotels in the category Disney designates as moderate.

Oh and Saratoga Springs and Old Key West despite Disney advertising then as deluxe villa accommodation, I don't see them as any better than a moderate, except for the fact they have kitchen facilities in the rooms. This is probably why (in the UK at least) these two resorts are discounted down to the same price as Port Orleans.

It's been speculated Disney offers deep discounts on OKW and SSR as a way to expose potential DVC purchasers to the product.

I can see Disney attempting to fix this by allowing resort guests to make dining reservations early at the resort they are staying in.

Disney doesn't see the need to "fix" the issue. Restaurants are booked. That wouldn't "fix" the issue. The point is guests typically have the ability to make reservations at restaurants in their OWN hotel when the check in. The only "solution" would be to hold back a significant number of tables. Disney has an increasing number of guests using their smartphones. It should be easy to communicate last minute availability of restaurant reservations to their guest.

Might just be that people are equating cost with star status.

I know none of the Disney Hotels are 5 star. And yes, some of them have room rates that are even higher than 5 star. But, how many 5 star hotels have the MK or Epcot a short walk away? How many 5 stars have free transportation pull up at the front door?
.....

I don't think it is a bad thing to let the franchises that are used to providing a 4 or 5 star experience, do just that. After all, it is their specialty. Disney's is to provide a wide array of choices. Having both the four seasons and Waldorf now on the property, Disney is indeed providing that wide array.

The Waldorf is not on property. Any 5* hotel, and probably almost every 4* hotel, can arrange transportation directly to the front door. Limo service isn't free but guests at a 5* hotel aren't looking for free.

Disney is promoting the GF as "pretend" 5*. The hotel is themed as a 5* resort. The hotel is priced as a 5*. Thread like this help educate guests as to what to expect.

 

[Reddog1134]

But they've had their chance to do this and they haven't.

Also, the argument is that if you're staying at a DELUXE hotel you should be able to go to the concierge and have them find you a spot at the restaurant(s) within that hotel sometime that week.

Disney doesn't see the need to "fix" the issue. Restaurants are booked. That wouldn't "fix" the issue. The point is guests typically have the ability to make reservations at restaurants in their OWN hotel when the check in. The only "solution" would be to hold back a significant number of tables. Disney has an increasing number of guests using their smartphones. It should be easy to communicate last minute availability of restaurant reservations to their guest.

My point wasn't that it was a "good fix" it's a "Disney fix".

 

[Tigger's ally]

Disney is promoting the GF as "pretend" 5*. The hotel is themed as a 5* resort. The hotel is priced as a 5*. Thread like this help educate guests as to what to expect.

We will agree to disagree. Disney promotes the GF as their flagship hotel, but nowhere do they promote it as a "pretend" 5* or as 5* period. People here say that, but Disney doesn't. It is one of their upscale resorts, but even they know it is not a 5* by any stretch of the imagination. And like I said as far as 5* price, the price that each of Disney's Deluxes is driven by location, not service. Always has been.

And as far as threads like this helping to educate guests. You are right. That is why guests need to know that the GF is as close to 5* as what Disney does, but that it is a long way from that. Like I said before. Let the 5* chains worry about providing a 5* hotel, that is not what Disney does.

 

[mikedoyleblogger]

We will agree to disagree. Disney promotes the GF as their flagship hotel, but nowhere do they promote it as a "pretend" 5* or as 5* period. People here say that, but Disney doesn't. It is one of their upscale resorts, but even they know it is not a 5* by any stretch of the imagination. And like I said as far as 5* price, the price that each of Disney's Deluxes is driven by location, not service. Always has been.

And as far as threads like this helping to educate guests. You are right. That is why guests need to know that the GF is as close to 5* as what Disney does, but that it is a long way from that. Like I said before. Let the 5* chains worry about providing a 5* hotel, that is not what Disney does.

People will always equate price with service. That's the way it works everywhere else. And because of that, some people will always be disappointed with Disney's Deluxes. That doesn't make that disappointment the guest's fault. It makes it Disney's fault for deciding not to provide industry-standard service for given price points.

That does negatively affect them. Enormous negative word-of-mouth is generated by a single negative hotel stay. For their price points, online reviews for Disney Deluxes on *both* coasts have proportionately more negative reviews than non-Disney hotels. (That's clear to see.)

Just because guests "need to know" about Disney's lesser upper-tier service doesn't mean that lesser service is reasonable or that those guests will find it reasonable. Some of us who have stayed at the Deluxes find it unreasonable to expect us to be OK with outlandish prices for rotten service, no matter how close those Deluxes are to a park entrance. Just because Disney does something doesn't automatically make it the right thing to do.

 

[beer dave]

We will agree to disagree. Disney promotes the GF as their flagship hotel, but nowhere do they promote it as a "pretend" 5* or as 5* period. People here say that, but Disney doesn't. It is one of their upscale resorts, but even they know it is not a 5* by any stretch of the imagination. And like I said as far as 5* price, the price that each of Disney's Deluxes is driven by location, not service. Always has been.

And as far as threads like this helping to educate guests. You are right. That is why guests need to know that the GF is as close to 5* as what Disney does, but that it is a long way from that. Like I said before. Let the 5* chains worry about providing a 5* hotel, that is not what Disney does.

I agree with you-- It can't be said that location doesn't play a large part in price of a resort. (and I am not saying that the room rate at disney isn't inflated, but they charge what the market will bear.) No one would expect to pay the same rate for a rental on the beach as they would pay for one a mile away. The category of "resorts within walking distance to Disney parks" is a very small category. 4 seasons doesn't have that category. If they did, I would bet the price would be much higher than the GF.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I agree with you-- It can't be said that location doesn't play a large part in price of a resort. (and I am not saying that the room rate at disney isn't inflated, but they charge what the market will bear.) No one would expect to pay the same rate for a rental on the beach as they would pay for one a mile away. The category of "resorts within walking distance to Disney parks" is a very small category. 4 seasons doesn't have that category. If they did, I would bet the price would be much higher than the GF.

Four seasons had a base rack rate of $399

I'm just saying.

Are you paying for the location at the "grand"
And "contemporary"?
Yes...of course you are.

Is it worth $500...of course not...

And before somebody says " we think it's totally worth it!!! "...
Come up with metrics that can convince me of that... Feel free to use a slideshow and laser pointer if necessary...

It's nice, it's convenient, it's picturesque at times...

But it's still not justified...you're believing the hype if you're buying it.

Which Brings us back full circle
To "how much service can be expected
For the price"

Now...I think the grand Floridian will drop the service "pretense" altogether now that seasons is open...

The old money can go there and the frack millionaires can roll into 1900 park fare... Which is largely the way it has been since the 90's...

In many ways...the "grand" Floridian concept of service was abandoned along time ago...privately...it may have lasted 10 years...

Ironic that's the time they changed the labor structure to go down to interchangeable minimum wage, reduced training, standards, and benefits, huh?

Funny how that works...

 

[mikedoyleblogger]

...In many ways...the "grand" Floridian concept of service was abandoned along time ago...privately...it may have lasted 10 years...

Ironic that's the time they changed the labor structure to go down to interchangeable minimum wage, reduced training, standards, and benefits, huh?

Funny how that works...

That's exactly the feeling I got last weekend when my partner and I stayed at the Grand Californian Hotel at DLR. Very checked-out, low-end staff and no clue about customer service. Last May we did WDW and stayed at Pop, and it's one of the places we wished we were instead, all last weekend, instead of GCH. So why is it that on both coasts they can manage the magic at the low-end but not the high-end? I don't get it.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

That's exactly the feeling I got last weekend when my partner and I stayed at the Grand Californian Hotel at DLR. Very checked-out, low-end staff and no clue about customer service. Last May we did WDW and stayed at Pop, and it's one of the places we wished we were instead, all last weekend, instead of GCH. So why is it that on both coasts they can manage the magic at the low-end but not the high-end? I don't get it.

There's a very simple answer...and one that good quality "cast" have known for years

(Ironically...I had this very same discussion more times than I can count at the "grand Floridian" in question)

It's because Disney uses a "one size fits all" labor plan in an effort to shift workforce if needed...but more importantly keep wages at or near minimum levels as much as possible...

I believe this was already pointed out eloquently on this thread: values and moderates meet expectations while deluxes fail.

My theory is that it's directly tied to staffing...

That while big cartoon statues and laid back fun are enhanced by Disney "happier than you would expect" low paid staffing,
Those that pay $3500 a week for lodging where they have marble countertops and hand towels are underwhelmed by the lack of service/value that is presented by what is the SAME exact workforce.

It's the system...
...a bad one.

 

[Aurora0427]

People will always equate price with service. That's the way it works everywhere else. And because of that, some people will always be disappointed with Disney's Deluxes. That doesn't make that disappointment the guest's fault. It makes it Disney's fault for deciding not to provide industry-standard service for given price points.

That does negatively affect them. Enormous negative word-of-mouth is generated by a single negative hotel stay. For their price points, online reviews for Disney Deluxes on *both* coasts have proportionately more negative reviews than non-Disney hotels. (That's clear to see.)

Just because guests "need to know" about Disney's lesser upper-tier service doesn't mean that lesser service is reasonable or that those guests will find it reasonable. Some of us who have stayed at the Deluxes find it unreasonable to expect us to be OK with outlandish prices for rotten service, no matter how close those Deluxes are to a park entrance. Just because Disney does something doesn't automatically make it the right thing to do.

We have stayed at deluxe resorts 8 out of 9 trips, and have never encountered rotten service. In fact, we have always had very good service. Is it the same level of service we had at the Four Seasons Maui? No. No one brought me an Evian spritzer by the pool, or taught me a private yoga class on the beach at sunrise, or hired a luxury SUV to take me to the top of a volcano. But this is Disney, and I have never expected those types of things from a Disney deluxe hotel. We appreciate the deluxe resorts.... well except for WL, but I digress. Are they overpriced, yes. I do understand where you guys are coming from, I really do. But like I said, 8 out of 9 trips- never encountered rotten service. One trip was at POFQ, and we hated it. So for anyone on this thread doing research, we love the Disney deluxe resorts. And we also never pay rack rate. If we had to choose between full rack rate or the FS or WA, we'd stay off property or try out CSR. I get what everyone is saying about the deluxes, I just don't think they are terrible, and if you can get a good discount, it's great.

Guess I'm alone in liking the deluxes here. Or at least on the last two pages of this thread! Cheers everyone!

 

[Networth]

Who in their right mind expects 5 star hotels at Disney? Your paying the Disney premium and location location location. I have Platinum Elite at Ritz-Carlton for how often I stay(prefer them over the 4 Seasons and Mandarin oriental in most cities). I stay at the GF because it is the nicest resort Disney has IMO, and its one monorail ride away from MK, and I personally love the great themeing, even more so at Christmas when we visit. Would I expect higher service if it was not a stones throw away from MK, was not in the disney bubble, and was not impeccably themed you better believe it. Yet If I wanted true 5 star I would stay at the Orlando Ritz-Carlton. I think you may be misunderstanding why people stay at Disney's Deluxe resorts. Not to sound snooty but if you can afford a Disney Deluxe odd’s are you can afford the 4 Seasons and Ritz-Carlton in Orlando just like me and those, individuals just like me choose the Disney's Deluxe resorts because we want a “Disney vacation, and hotel”. Not because we feel we need white glove service to equate for our dollars.

On a side note I have never had trouble with the GF staff in fact they are usually superb.

2 cents.

 

[jon18uk]

It's because Disney uses a "one size fits all" labor plan in an effort to shift workforce if needed...but more importantly keep wages at or near minimum levels as much as possible...

I believe this was already pointed out eloquently on this thread: values and moderates meet expectations while deluxes fail.

My theory is that it's directly tied to staffing...

That while big cartoon statues and laid back fun are enhanced by Disney "happier than you would expect" low paid staffing,
Those that pay $3500 a week for lodging where they have marble countertops and hand towels are underwhelmed by the lack of service/value that is presented by what is the SAME exact workforce.

Yep. Disney hire and train staff to moderate level. So at a moderate resort you get exactly what you expect, at a value you many get better than expected but sometimes at a Deluxe you get a little worse assistance from staff that expected.

 

[beer dave]

Four seasons had a base rack rate of $399

I'm just saying.

Are you paying for the location at the "grand"
And "contemporary"?
Yes...of course you are.

Is it worth $500...of course not...

And before somebody says " we think it's totally worth it!!! "...
Come up with metrics that can convince me of that... Feel free to use a slideshow and laser pointer if necessary...

It's nice, it's convenient, it's picturesque at times...

But it's still not justified...you're believing the hype if you're buying it.

Which Brings us back full circle
To "how much service can be expected
For the price"

Now...I think the grand Floridian will drop the service "pretense" altogether now that seasons is open...

The old money can go there and the frack millionaires can roll into 1900 park fare... Which is largely the way it has been since the 90's...

In many ways...the "grand" Floridian concept of service was abandoned along time ago...privately...it may have lasted 10 years...

Ironic that's the time they changed the labor structure to go down to interchangeable minimum wage, reduced training, standards, and benefits, huh?

Funny how that works...

I mostly agree but you are missing (or skirting) my point a bit-- the 4 seasons doesn't have a resort in the category we are discussing. What would they charge if they had one on the monorail loop?

 

[beer dave]

Guess I'm alone in liking the deluxes here. Or at least on the last two pages of this thread! Cheers everyone!

You're not alone.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I mostly agree but you are missing (or skirting) my point a bit-- the 4 seasons doesn't have a resort in the category we are discussing. What would they charge if they had one on the monorail loop?

Wait, the monorail is a 44 year old Nixon era tram that USED to be included in the modestly priced hotels and tickets...
And it's falling apart

I reject the notion that somehow it's worth $200 drachmas a night.

Perhaps if they had expanded it to the other 60% of the property and it was exclusive to those spots...but they didnt.