WDW resort going forward

[beer dave]

I'm sorry to tell you, your DVC ownership will NEVER become more valuable. It will continue to be less and less valuable, especially with each and every DVC room they add.

Sometimes a little research could prevent a person from making ridiculous statements.

 

[Dwheels]

You know after years of reading DVC discussions. My conclusion is it neither really good nor really bad. If its floats your boat it good, if it doesn't don't buy. I think the bigger issue is that DVC makes money for Disney. If they stop and not make that money some people will lose their jobs. So they are not stopping until it just does not sell any more. But times do change, ask the typewriter makers. Or ask Eastman Kodak. You can't, they are out of business. Because times change. Will Disney eventually go out of Business most likely. When, who knows. It's there now and its fun that all that matters. When it isn't fun anymore, you will stop going and do other things, and Disney will be a good memory like your first Kodak camera. But again you have to be like 25 years old to remember that

Disney out of business someday? ROTFL I highly doubt that! They are always evolving and changing with the times!

 

[Dwheels]

Because you have to be an idiot to pay that price for a Disney "Deluxe" room. They are basically the same room as the values.

Not even close! Value is a value and u get what u pay for! Not even close to a moderate let alone a deluxe!

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Disney out of business someday? ROTFL I highly doubt that! They are always evolving and changing with the times!

I disagree on this point...

Don't doubt that large businesses could fall almost on a moments notice going forward.

There are companies that are known, successful, and perform well from both a profit and stock perspective that are all but certain to go away in a heartbeat somewhere in the future.

That is the price to be paid for most of the wealth going to a smaller and smaller group of powerbrokers...

Global economy will become like a high stakes poker game...and the players will have the ability to bluff/ walk away from the table at any point with little or no consequence.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Not even close! Value is a value and u get what u pay for! Not even close to a moderate let alone a deluxe!

Stop...
This is just chain yanking...just ignore the sideshow

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Sometimes a little research could prevent a person from making ridiculous statements.

But it is unnecessary if your goal is simply to cause trouble

 

[clsteve]

I saw the same idea floated somewhere else...it definitely wasnt jim hill though the original rumor could have had the same origin...

I'm just now starting to look at this "deluxe" room glut that is being widely report

This was much easier when I had daily access to the occupancy rates and long term forecasts...guess we all have to "grow up" at some point, huh

But if true - and I don't have a reason to doubt it - and they just can't move the "deluxe" world class rooms (insert laugh here)...the retrofit of existing sites with existing DVC add ons make complete cost cutting sense.

That is wilderness and beach club to a T

But again, if they hadnt consistently jacked the rates through the roof after the 9/11 drawback and through the housing crash...wouldn't be a problem...

Should have let Income Levels close the gap on the cost of moderates and deluxes...
But no, had to outrun it and force what could have been deluxe customers into moderates and nobody into deluxes.

Atta boy, Bob

When we see the number of units converted and to what type and size, it will give us us a lot more insight into everything from the target market, to cost, to size of the initiative, to how much of an issue occ rate is for Deluxe. This one will be interesting to watch.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

When we see the number of units converted and to what type and size, it will give us us a lot more insight into everything from the target market, to cost, to size of the initiative, to how much of an issue occ rate is for Deluxe. This one will be interesting to watch.

I think the occupancy rate is a secondary concern...in a paradoxical way

If they are gonna green light permanent conversion of inventory... They'll go all in.
Remember, once they commit...it will be about selling timeshares to offset expense and guarantee profit.

It won't be about how many rooms they can fill at rack rate...it will be more about the maximum units they can sell.

They won't hold back, damn the torpedoes.

It's all ironic if this wilderness thing comes to pass...
The wilderness lodge - built as a moderate but "upgraded" because Stern did such a great job on it...Increased steadily in price due to popularity...now overpriced to try to keep up with the ridiculous rooms of the poly, contemporary, etc...
And now being converted into an elaborate, Disney mouse ear slapped version of the Sheraton Vistana...

Thick with irony.

 

[clsteve]

I think the occupancy rate is a secondary concern...in a paradoxical way

If they are gonna green light permanent conversion of inventory... They'll go all in.
Remember, once they commit...it will be about selling timeshares to offset expense and guarantee profit.

It won't be about how many rooms they can fill at rack rate...it will be more about the maximum units they can sell.

They won't hold back, damn the torpedoes.

It's all ironic if this wilderness thing comes to pass...
The wilderness lodge - built as a moderate but "upgraded" because Stern did such a great job on it...Increased steadily in price due to popularity...now overpriced to try to keep up with the ridiculous rooms of the poly, contemporary, etc...
And now being converted into an elaborate, Disney mouse ear slapped version of the Sheraton Vistana...

Thick with irony.

Absolutely.

And they're really loving that predictable cash flow YTY from DVC's - not to mention the cash up front, it seems.

 

[dinolounger]

just DVC's typical modus operandi of dangling a carrot to encourage sales.

Yes and no.

Yes, incentives are not new.

No, this is not just the generic version. I'f I'm at all representative, this mailing was sent to everyone, including the heartland and northeaster members who have never shown interest in Aulani. And they are promoting the fact you can buy there but not bother going there.

 

[tjkraz]

Yes and no.

Yes, incentives are not new.

No, this is not just the generic version. I'f I'm at all representative, this mailing was sent to everyone, including the heartland and northeaster members who have never shown interest in Aulani. And they are promoting the fact you can buy there but not bother going there.

These are all approaches DVC has taken before. We've been owners for more than a decade. We've seen cash discounts..."free" cruises with a point purchase...free Annual Passes...free one-time-use Developer's Points...free vacations through RCI...and this is not the first time they have offered "free" lifetime points with a purchase.

Different offers but ultimately the net cost ends up being in the same area code.

Area of residence doesn't matter a whole lot. I live in the midwest...this isn't the first Aulani mailing I've received and it won't be the last. And I know people who live in the midwest and own Aulani points--not a lot but some. Given the relatively low cost of this mailing (which was little more than a fold-out postcard), they'd be foolish to ignore the market entirely.

Different offers appeal to different audiences. That's why they keep changing things up. It's comparable to the vacation packages offered to cash guests: One moment they're offering "free" dining...next it's 30% off rack rates...then buy 4 nights, get 3 "free"...then free park tickets with a hotel reservation...

 

[OnSpaceshipEarth]

The wilderness lodge - built as a moderate but "upgraded" because Stern did such a great job on it...Increased steadily in price due to popularity...now overpriced to try to keep up with the ridiculous rooms of the poly, contemporary, etc...

The WL was built as a moderate resort originally? With interior hallways and all that beautiful theming?

Also...the WL used to be a popular resort? I thought they have always had trouble filling rooms there?

 

[lavatea]

 

[jon18uk]

The WL was built as a moderate resort originally? With interior hallways and all that beautiful theming?

But 30-40 years ago there were only 4 hotels at DisneyWorld, therefore if you compare Wilderness Lodge to the Grand Floridian it is the lower end hotel. The current moderate class hotels weren't built until the late 80s and early 90s.

 

[Reddog1134]

But 30-40 years ago there were only 4 hotels at DisneyWorld, therefore if you compare Wilderness Lodge to the Grand Floridian it is the lower end hotel. The current moderate class hotels weren't built until the late 80s and early 90s.

There were already 3 moderate resorts open when the Wilderness Lodge opened. I'm not sure I understand your logic.

 

[OnSpaceshipEarth]

But 30-40 years ago there were only 4 hotels at DisneyWorld, therefore if you compare Wilderness Lodge to the Grand Floridian it is the lower end hotel. The current moderate class hotels weren't built until the late 80s and early 90s.

The WL wasn't built until the '90's.

 

[jon18uk]

The WL wasn't built until the '90's.

Oops. Mis-remembered by me. I thought Wildeness Lodge was older than that.... In that case the previous poster was wrong and although it may be a lower class that the other MK hotels, it's not a moderate in the same sense as Port Orleans.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

The WL was built as a moderate resort originally? With interior hallways and all that beautiful theming?

Also...the WL used to be a popular resort? I thought they have always had trouble filling rooms there?

Well...
As the rumor goes...the wilderness lodge was built to be a moderate... And was switched into the "lower" upper tier.

Disney tinkered with hotel design alot in that period... Starting with Caribbean and grand and then through the swan and dolphin experiments through the boom construction years.

It is a bit of an urban legend...but there are reasons to believe it could have merit.

The "class system" only came into being at about the same time as wilderness was constructed...
There was not yet an allstar and at the time the only interior hotels were the aging Disney inn and the new yacht and beach clubs...
All the "deluxe" were exterior entry or "lodge" otherwise. Including the red and white nightmare.

The legend is that artists point was thrown in mid construction...which you could sorta see by it's somewhat strange setup. Whispering canyon also kinda looks like it could be a waiting room/tv lounge doesnt it? the kitchen is more in view than almost any other restaurant in wdw. The "concierge" lounge was a hurriedly tossed in retrofit around 2002...
The pool...while cool location due to the rockwork...is inline based on size and theme for what a "moderate" might have had at that time as well.

But the telling thing was the price...
It was significantly cheaper than the other deluxes through about 2004. Low season rooms ran about $119 in 2002...and only went up on a sharper angle after that point. The rates were 30-50 a night more than Caribbean, port, Dixie for about the first 10 years.

I guess the occupancy has been up and down...when it was cheaper...which I witnessed first hand with inventory access from 99-03...it was pretty booked.
But it was a fantastic value at the time. Beautiful for the money.

I just looked and the cheapest room on jan 2 overlooking the parking lot is $325...

Ridiculous. That's a 300% increase in about 10 years.

No wonder she's struggling...

Management should stick that rate and see if they can find the answers up there

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Oops. Mis-remembered by me. I thought Wildeness Lodge was older than that.... In that case the previous poster was wrong and although it may be a lower class that the other MK hotels, it's not a moderate in the same sense as Port Orleans.

The poly, contemp, and golf inn ( then Disney inn, now shades of green)...along with the campground... We're the original phase hotels. They were not very expensive.

The grand Floridian and Caribbean opened on October 88...and the class system was born...the monorail "uppers" and the standalone (carribean and Disney inn) lowers.

1991 ish brought the second group of exclusive "uppers" - yacht and beach and soon after boardwalk...and the second wave of standalone motel types with port Orleans and Dixie landings.

The real hard "pricey motor inn, expensive motel, really expensive themed hotel" categories landed when allstar opened in 94...
Wildeness was odd...because it wasnt in the " direct park access" areas on the monorail or behind EPCOT...but it was more elaborate than the standalone a like Caribbean.

Te price was telling...it was squarely in the middle.

All other deluxes ( which the exception of the poly and contemp that were built pre class warfare) were built and priced to be expensive.

Even animal kingdom... Which opened and had to be drastically reduced because they couldn't sell it...had top price rates in 2001 at its opening.

Wilderness did not. The basic rooms without giraffes at AKL were brought back down to wilderness price in an attempt to pump up AKL occupancy.

Wilderness went through the roof in the last ten years...it's history is very different. If you look at it objectively.

They just have out priced the rooms...you cannot sell what is in the end hotels that have changed little if at all for 20, 30, 40 years at 10% more per year.

You just can't...no matter how neat it was when it opened and how many artificial castles and globes are outside the windows.

The premium hotel brands and operators...mandarins, four seasons, ritz...maintain their service and constantly update to keep their advantage.

Disney does not...well maintained, but a fall off in service ( which was never up to snuff) and no reinvention.
Change a restaurant every now and then if your gonna charge me 50% more for the food and 30% more for the room every five years, will ya?!?!

 

[OKW Lover]

The wilderness lodge - built as a moderate but "upgraded" because Stern did such a great job on it...Increased steadily in price due to popularity...now overpriced to try to keep up with the ridiculous rooms of the poly, contemporary, etc...

This part is true. I remember when WL was first built. It wasn't considered a deluxe resort along the lines of the CR or Poly. The rooms are significantly smaller than the other deluxe resorts. But Disney found that they could command better prices if they started calling it a deluxe and people were quite taken with the architecture so they paid the asking price.

As far as being overpriced goes, that's in the eye of the person with the wallet.