Waiting to board our plane and....

[momtosam]

There are many with peanut allergies who cannot inhale them without a reaction. Airplane = recycled air = reaction

 

[Christine]

I appreciate your post but wanted to pick out this part of it. I didn't realize it either until a PP pointed it out, but it's NOT a closed system...
Source

Actually, I had read that before so I probably didn't word my post correctly. Yes, the HVAC on an airplane is quite good. Where the problem lies is that when so many people open their little bags of peanuts at once, the particles tend to go into the air right at about head level, and hang there for a bit around the cabin, before being pulled into the filtration system. I did read that and I will try to find the source again.

This really comes down to quantity and timing. The peanuts are handed out at the same time and opened at once. I witnessed it enough personally to know that the smell is strong and the dust from the skins gets everywhere, especially when those little bags pop open.

I actually have never had a concern with random people eating whatever snacks here and there. It's the "mass peanut" consumption all at one time in a small space.

 

[sam_gordon]

Actually, I had read that before so I probably didn't word my post correctly. Yes, the HVAC on an airplane is quite good. Where the problem lies is that when so many people open their little bags of peanuts at once, the particles tend to go into the air right at about head level, and hang there for a bit around the cabin, before being pulled into the filtration system. I did read that and I will try to find the source again.

This really comes down to quantity and timing. The peanuts are handed out at the same time and opened at once. I witnessed it enough personally to know that the smell is strong and the dust from the skins gets everywhere, especially when those little bags pop open.

I actually have never had a concern with random people eating whatever snacks here and there. It's the "mass peanut" consumption all at one time in a small space.

Well put. I personally would have no problem with an airline not serving peanuts on a flight (I just hope they have pretzels or Bischoff cookies though. )

 

[bcla]

Actually, I had read that before so I probably didn't word my post correctly. Yes, the HVAC on an airplane is quite good. Where the problem lies is that when so many people open their little bags of peanuts at once, the particles tend to go into the air right at about head level, and hang there for a bit around the cabin, before being pulled into the filtration system. I did read that and I will try to find the source again.

This really comes down to quantity and timing. The peanuts are handed out at the same time and opened at once. I witnessed it enough personally to know that the smell is strong and the dust from the skins gets everywhere, especially when those little bags pop open.

I actually have never had a concern with random people eating whatever snacks here and there. It's the "mass peanut" consumption all at one time in a small space.

Not only that, but there will be over a hundred of those little jets causing the air to swirl all around the cabin.

However, the one example I can come up with, the flight crew didn't distribute peanuts. It was a lone person who opened a bag of peanuts that he brought onboard himself.

 

[kaytieeldr]

On a plane and against direct orders of the flight crew? You could be detained and/or arrested if previously warned about it. The fact is that there have been cases where a passenger went into shock and could have died, and I could see a reasonable case for a lawsuit should someone be harmed. A plane is a very different environment because the cabin is pressurized and the air is recirculated.

I'm relatively certain it's not a direct order, but simply a request. If you want to be technical, even the request doesn't come from the flight crew. It comes from the ground crew. I don't think there's any law addressing this, or making refusal a crime.

Not only that, but a large passenger plane is pressurized with recirculating air. It's the perfect storm for nut allergies. A kid almost died when someone opened a bag of nuts against flight crew orders. However, the sense I get from some people is "Not my problem if the kid dies. I'm hungry."

No, that's not accurate. While some air is recirculated, the air throughout the plane is completely refreshed as much as 20 times an hour http://abcnews.go.com/2020/Health/story?id=1213901&page=1
http://blogs.howstuffworks.com/keep-asking/how-is-aircraft-cabin-air-recycled-during-flights.htm
http://io9.com/why-you-really-get-sick-on-planes-and-how-to-prevent-1471880458
The single incident cited was caused by somebody seated close to the allergic child.

 

[bcla]

I'm relatively certain it's not a direct order, but simply a request. If you want to be technical, even the request doesn't come from the flight crew. It comes from the ground crew. I don't think there's any law addressing this, or making refusal a crime.


No, that's not accurate. While some air is recirculated, the air throughout the plane is completely refreshed as much as 20 times an hour http://abcnews.go.com/2020/Health/story?id=1213901&page=1
http://blogs.howstuffworks.com/keep-asking/how-is-aircraft-cabin-air-recycled-during-flights.htm
http://io9.com/why-you-really-get-sick-on-planes-and-how-to-prevent-1471880458
The single incident cited was caused by somebody seated close to the allergic child.

However, if it were restated by the onboard crew members (and the regulations say "crewmembers") like on the Ryanair flight, it could be. Anyone trying to split hairs on that might not find a amenable flight crew, especially if they see the offending foodstuff. And if they see it then give a direct order to put it away that is ignored, that could definitely be "interference with a crewmember" as stated in the law and regulations.

As for the recirculation of the air - it may not even be very critical. The fact is that the cabin is an environment with a lot of swirling air. I noted over a hundred little jets of air from those little nozzles plus other sources causing air to swirl around. It's not exactly the best environment to ensure that air from one section doesn't reach the rest of the cabin. If the air system were really that effective at trapping allergens, then that four year old girl wouldn't have passed out and needed an adrenaline shot.

 

[sam_gordon]

If the air system were really that effective at trapping allergens, then that four year old girl wouldn't have passed out and needed an adrenaline shot.

Wasn't the girl within a couple of rows of the peanut eating passenger? That's no proof that someone eating peanut M&Ms in row 27 is a danger to someone in row 12.

 

[Christine]

Wasn't the girl within a couple of rows of the peanut eating passenger? That's no proof that someone eating peanut M&Ms in row 27 is a danger to someone in row 12.

I agree with this which is why I don't understand the ban on everything peanut on the plane. The bags are really the only issue and that's due to so many of them or just a few in close proximity to the allergic person.

 

[usd2bmd]

The airline just announced that a passenger has a severe peanut allergy and asked that people not eat anything with nuts while on the plane. Some people are put off by this. I'm torn. I don't want to have to make an emergency landing if they go into an allergic reaction or the person have an allergic reaction but I also feel that 180-190 people shouldn't be put off for one person. We have peanut m&m's but won't eat them out of courtesy and his/ her safety.

Just wondering how you would handle it. Driving may not be an option for everyone. They can't help the allergy that they have. Someone on the plane NOT having peanuts for the couple of hours they are on the plane isn't going to kill them, but for one person on the plane someone having peanuts just may kill THEM. to me that's a no brainer and certainly not worth the chance. I'm sorry that people on the plane may feel put off, but I doubt they would if it were their child.

 

[usd2bmd]

I agree with this which is why I don't understand the ban on everything peanut on the plane. The bags are really the only issue and that's due to so many of them or just a few in close proximity to the allergic person.

Not necessarily, depending on the severity of the allergy.

 

[Christine]

Not necessarily, depending on the severity of the allergy.

I have a son (he's now 20) with the highest reactivity level (by test) that his allergist has ever seen in the office. He has reacted to ingestion with severe facial hives. On top of that, he has moderate asthma which puts him at risk for anaphylaxis so I defintely get nervous about this stuff.

I was a wreck the first time he flew but I tried to think of it all very logically. 200 bags of peanuts, logically, seem like they have a great potential to cause an issues. So we chose airlines that had a constant no-nut policy whenever we flew.

Having someone on the plane eat a peanut butter sandwich in the row in front or behind him was not going to give him a reaction. It had never happened anywhere else, so why would it happen there. If my son was the type of person who reacted to the smell of someone 6 feet away from him eating a peanut butter sandwich (which is a paste and cannot be thrown into the air), then something else more psychosomatic would have been going on and we would not take that chance for a vacation. Anything in paste or "sticky" form is not going to go into the air. Loose peanut particles will, especially those still in the shell with the skins.

Nothing in the world is 100% risk-free, but the chances of reacting to someone having a granola bar a few feet away would be highly unlikely.

 

[usd2bmd]

Why do you make this assumption about other people? I knew a mom who had a son with severe allergies and instead of relying on the general public to bow and bend to her and her child's needs she homeschooled. She didn't use the public library because the risk of contamination on books; she made accommodations for her son; she didn't expect everyone else to do it for her.

It's called personal responsibility.

But this is not always a possibility for everyone. That woman was extremely lucky that she could not work and homeschool her child. If I had to make that choice we would be homeschooling in a tent because we wouldn't have a home.

This doesn't have to be a contest about who has it worse...but IMO if it were the person with the severe peanut allergy wins and if you really want to eat them you can, in your car.

 

[bcla]

Wasn't the girl within a couple of rows of the peanut eating passenger? That's no proof that someone eating peanut M&Ms in row 27 is a danger to someone in row 12.

Of course a lot of things are simplified. However, I don't get the attitude among some here that instructions from airline crewmembers are basically optional at the individual passenger's discretion. I understand that a blanket prohibition may be easier than to try to make an individual call on how far is far enough. The other issue is that someone eats something, then breathes it out. I know many think in terms of things being sanitary, but in tight quarters like an airliner cabin, that's tons of stuff being constantly spewed into the environment. That's why measles is so virulent, and where an airliner cabin would be almost the perfect place for it to spread.

The guy was four rows back. Who's to say the same thing wouldn't have happened had he been eight rows back or even twelve? The flow of air in a cabin isn't exactly like a range hood over a stove sucking in air directly away from the surface. It's blowing air from hundreds of little ports, hitting seats/passengers, and probably scattering air all throughout the cabin. Sure it eventually gets sucked into the filters, but a few minutes of allergens flowing throughout the cabin may be enough to kill someone with a severe allergy.

If the crew simply asks, what's the problem with complying? It doesn't seem like it's that big a deal to just comply, but I know of many who feel that they should overthink things in the name of their own personal freedoms.

 

[Planogirl]

You can't enforce this. Unless airlines start examining food items too there is no way to stop people from eating peanut products during a flight.

I'm torn too but not because I would eat peanuts if someone allergic were on board. I agree with people who have said that such orders might make the allergic too complacent.

 

[sookie]

My daughter has a nut allergy. I've written about it before.

The shape of the peanut protein, when inhaled or ingested, causes a severe allergy. The body reacts quickly and shuts down within a few minutes.

I appreciate it when people realize they can be without peanut butter for 2-3 hours for her safety. On our last flight, the attendant told everyone they were serving an alternative snack (and honestly, the alternative was nicer) and then if someone really wanted peanuts, they could ask her when they were getting off the plane and she would have them waiting. I thought it was nice they offered.

To the person talking about peanut butter crackers as a "need" for diabetics - no, it isn't a need. Cheese can be used just as easily. Usually we recommend a complex carb and a protein for someone with low blood sugar. There are other options.

Again, thanks to everyone who does comply. Those of us with peanut allergic children really appreciate it.

 

[Christine]

Sookie, though, the airlines do a great disservice to those with other issues when they don't announce the problem until you are boarded. They could tell you while still in the terminal so you have a chance to get something else.

 

[aaarcher86]

My daughter has a nut allergy. I've written about it before.

The shape of the peanut protein, when inhaled or ingested, causes a severe allergy. The body reacts quickly and shuts down within a few minutes.

I appreciate it when people realize they can be without peanut butter for 2-3 hours for her safety. On our last flight, the attendant told everyone they were serving an alternative snack (and honestly, the alternative was nicer) and then if someone really wanted peanuts, they could ask her when they were getting off the plane and she would have them waiting. I thought it was nice they offered.

To the person talking about peanut butter crackers as a "need" for diabetics - no, it isn't a need. Cheese can be used just as easily. Usually we recommend a complex carb and a protein for someone with low blood sugar. There are other options.

Again, thanks to everyone who does comply. Those of us with peanut allergic children really appreciate it.

I keep seeing people telling the diabetic in the example that they have other options they can/should utilize... But so does the kid with the allergy.

Why is it okay to tell a complete stranger that they should change the way they take responsibility for themselves but someone else can't say the same about someone with allergies?

 

[TraciLeigh]

I can't honestly believe that someone on here had the nerve to call the "no peanuts" request an "all about me attitude." Food allergies can and do kill people. And if the person getting on the plane has a severe peanut allergy (or tree nut allergy) that also includes airborne particles then yes, peanut M&Ms in row 27 could lead to a life-threatening reaction at 35,000 feet. Believe me when I say that those of who have children with food allergies wish we didn't have to ask other people to NOT eat food but we also wish our kids didn't have food allergies that could kill them. There's no "all about me" attitude here - and there's nothing about being "politically correct." I'd like everyone on this thread who says "too bad for that person with food allergies, I'm going to eat my peanuts anyway" to put themselves in the shoes of any parent who has watched their child have an allergic reaction and wondered if their child might actually die because of the selfish person who thought eating peanuts was their "right" regardless of who it might harm. I'd like those people to imagine for just one minute what it would be like to be a person with a food allergy who starts having an allergic reaction in mid-air. You probably won't be able to breathe. You might get hives. You might vomit. You might pass out. You might even die. All because someone was too selfish to put the peanuts away. I fail to understand why it is so impossible for people to show a little compassion for their fellow human beings. I guess compassion is just not "cool" anymore.

 

[eliza61]

My daughter has a nut allergy. I've written about it before.

The shape of the peanut protein, when inhaled or ingested, causes a severe allergy. The body reacts quickly and shuts down within a few minutes.

I appreciate it when people realize they can be without peanut butter for 2-3 hours for her safety. On our last flight, the attendant told everyone they were serving an alternative snack (and honestly, the alternative was nicer) and then if someone really wanted peanuts, they could ask her when they were getting off the plane and she would have them waiting. I thought it was nice they offered.

To the person talking about peanut butter crackers as a "need" for diabetics - no, it isn't a need. Cheese can be used just as easily. Usually we recommend a complex carb and a protein for someone with low blood sugar. There are other options.

Again, thanks to everyone who does comply. Those of us with peanut allergic children really appreciate it.

Question and I mean this with all respect,
Don't you find it a bit ironic that you will demand accomadations for your child, then turn around and tell someone with a serious illness what they can do without to maintain their health??

Why does the health of your child over rule some one elses?? if the diabetic brought peanut butter because they wanted to starve off low blood sugar, I know I would be a bit peeve is now a total stranger came and had the nerve to tell me what I don't need to stay healthy.

I just find that so hypocritical.

Now let me say I don't have special medical needs children so I am asking this genuinely wanting to know.

 

[aaarcher86]

I can't honestly believe that someone on here had the nerve to call the "no peanuts" request an "all about me attitude." Food allergies can and do kill people. And if the person getting on the plane has a severe peanut allergy (or tree nut allergy) that also includes airborne particles then yes, peanut M&Ms in row 27 could lead to a life-threatening reaction at 35,000 feet. Believe me when I say that those of who have children with food allergies wish we didn't have to ask other people to NOT eat food but we also wish our kids didn't have food allergies that could kill them. There's no "all about me" attitude here - and there's nothing about being "politically correct." I'd like everyone on this thread who says "too bad for that person with food allergies, I'm going to eat my peanuts anyway" to put themselves in the shoes of any parent who has watched their child have an allergic reaction and wondered if their child might actually die because of the selfish person who thought eating peanuts was their "right" regardless of who it might harm. I'd like those people to imagine for just one minute what it would be like to be a person with a food allergy who starts having an allergic reaction in mid-air. You probably won't be able to breathe. You might get hives. You might vomit. You might pass out. You might even die. All because someone was too selfish to put the peanuts away. I fail to understand why it is so impossible for people to show a little compassion for their fellow human beings. I guess compassion is just not "cool" anymore.

So... Isn't it kind of selfish for the family to put that child on a flight with 200 strangers who may or may not care in the first place?

I guess that's the dilemma. Where does the selfishness start? When does compassion end and entitlement begin?