W. Va Hospitals Will Fire Unvaccinated Workers

[FireDancer]

Apparently they are because there is no good reason NOT to get a flu shot, if you aren't allergic to eggs, and haven't had GBS. A flu shot doesn't begin to build immunity until 2 weeks after the initial injection, and doesn't peak for 6 weeks. You may have waited too long for your flu shot or didn't achieve immunity in time, or may have contracted a flu that wasn't covered by the shot. The flu shot did not make you sick.

That isn't necessarily true. There are plenty of people who thing a flu shot is actually harmful to health. There are people on both sides of the issue. I am not going to debate which is right because I really don't know but I have come to my own conclusion and decided that I would rather take the risk of getting the flu over the risk of the possible negative effects. You may disagree and I respect your right to do so, I merely expect the same. It should be my right to make that decision just like it should be your right to come to the opposite conclusion. I don't want any medical treatment (preventative or otherwise) mandated by anyone on anyone. I think it should all be a choice.

There is far too much conflict of interest in the medical community to take everything at face value.

 

[DawnCt1]

That isn't necessarily true. There are plenty of people who thing a flu shot is actually harmful to health. There are people on both sides of the issue. I am not going to debate which is right because I really don't know but I have come to my own conclusion and decided that I would rather take the risk of getting the flu over the risk of the possible negative effects. You may disagree and I respect your right to do so, I merely expect the same. It should be my right to make that decision just like it should be your right to come to the opposite conclusion. I don't want any medical treatment (preventative or otherwise) mandated by anyone on anyone. I think it should all be a choice.

There is far too much conflict of interest in the medical community to take everything at face value.

And there are plenty of people who think the earth is flat too. It doesn't make it so. Hospitals can impose any rules they want on their workers. They and the state require that nurses be licensed, that aids be trained, and they should be able to impose the requirement of "first do no harm" via vaccination. Public schools have immunization requirements. Dorms have immunization requirements, the US military has the same. If you don't want to join the Army, sleep in the college dorm or attend public school, (although there are fairly liberal ways to avoid vaccinations here), then don't. If you don't want to work in a hospital, don't get a flu shot. Its simple.

 

[Plannin'Shannon]

And there are plenty of people who think the earth is flat too. It doesn't make it so. Hospitals can impose any rules they want on their workers. They and the state require that nurses be licensed, that aids be trained, and they should be able to impose the requirement of "first do no harm" via vaccination. Public schools have immunization requirements. Dorms have immunization requirements, the US military has the same. If you don't want to join the Army, sleep in the college dorm or attend public school, (although there are fairly liberal ways to avoid vaccinations here), then don't. If you don't want to work in a hospital, don't get a flu shot. Its simple.

Very well said.

 

[Piecey]

And there are plenty of people who think the earth is flat too. It doesn't make it so. Hospitals can impose any rules they want on their workers. They and the state require that nurses be licensed, that aids be trained, and they should be able to impose the requirement of "first do no harm" via vaccination. Public schools have immunization requirements. Dorms have immunization requirements, the US military has the same. If you don't want to join the Army, sleep in the college dorm or attend public school, (although there are fairly liberal ways to avoid vaccinations here), then don't. If you don't want to work in a hospital, don't get a flu shot. Its simple.

 

[FireDancer]

And there are plenty of people who think the earth is flat too. It doesn't make it so. Hospitals can impose any rules they want on their workers. They and the state require that nurses be licensed, that aids be trained, and they should be able to impose the requirement of "first do no harm" via vaccination. Public schools have immunization requirements. Dorms have immunization requirements, the US military has the same. If you don't want to join the Army, sleep in the college dorm or attend public school, (although there are fairly liberal ways to avoid vaccinations here), then don't. If you don't want to work in a hospital, don't get a flu shot. Its simple.

I love when someone takes a completely illogical scenario and tries to relate it to a legitimate one. You are entitled to you opinion that vaccines are not harmful but to try and paint someone who happens to have a different belief the same as someone that thinks the Earth is flat or something else so out there is just disingenuous. There are fully licensed, educated, and practicing doctors that don't believe in getting vaccinated too.

In Ohio you can get out of school vaccinations if they are against a religious belief so even those are not absolute. There is also a very big difference between mandating licensing and dictating what someone puts in their body. Again, it is an apples to oranges comparison.

We can agree to disagree on the issue of forced vaccination or the merits of those vaccinations but it is easy to do so without being condescending. The issue isn't about the merit of vaccines either way, it is about any person making their own medical choices. It doesn't matter if it is vaccination, surgery, prescription drugs, or using leaches to suck out the evil. The choice should be with the patient and the patient only, not their employer or the government.

 

[Piecey]

I love when someone takes a completely illogical scenario and tries to relate it to a legitimate one. You are entitled to you opinion that vaccines are not harmful but to try and paint someone who happens to have a different belief the same as someone that thinks the Earth is flat or something else so out there is just disingenuous. There are fully licensed, educated, and practicing doctors that don't believe in getting vaccinated too.

In Ohio you can get out of school vaccinations if they are against a religious belief so even those are not absolute. There is also a very big difference between mandating licensing and dictating what someone puts in their body. Again, it is an apples to oranges comparison.

We can agree to disagree on the issue of forced vaccination or the merits of those vaccinations but it is easy to do so without being condescending. The issue isn't about the merit of vaccines either way, it is about any person making their own medical choices. It doesn't matter if it is vaccination, surgery, prescription drugs, or using leaches to suck out the evil. The choice should be with the patient and the patient only, not their employer or the government.

There are no religious exemptions from vaccinations in West Virginia.

The only way a child can enter a school without the required vaccinations is if they have a medical reason and I believe they still have to present a case to the Board of Education before being admitted.

Maybe it's just my state.

 

[FireDancer]

There are no religious exemptions from vaccinations in West Virginia.

The only way a child can enter a school without the required vaccinations is if they have a medical reason and I believe they still have to present a case to the Board of Education before being admitted.

Maybe it's just my state.

Yeah, I was informed of this earlier. I am not trying to make this a debate about whether vaccinations are good or bad. I am not even completely sure either way because I have read credible arguments both ways. I am just willing to take the chance of getting the flu and letting my immune system handle it. That is not the point as far as I see it anyway.

The point is that any grown adult should be able to make their own medical choices, no more and no less. For the sake of argument I'll say that vaccination is 100% safe and reliable, it should still be the choice of the patient (even if that patient works at a hospital) whether or not they take the vaccination. There is nothing wrong with choosing to get vaccinated and I would support anyone's choice. At the same extent I would want my choice honored even if I went against all the medical wisdom and choose to not vaccinate.

 

[Piecey]

Sure, a grown adult should be allowed to make their own medical choices. I won't argue that.

But that isn't what Dawn and myself disagree with.

We're arguing that the hospital has the right to employ whoever they want. If an adult chooses to go against the requirements of their employer, they have chosen to forfeit their job.
I am going to school for teaching. I have requirements for the days I spend in the local schools- proof of all vaccinations, that I be tested for TB and while it wasn't required it was strongly, strongly recommended we be vaccinated against H1N1 before returning to the classroom.
I follow the requirements of my program because I choose to. If they issued a requirement for something I didn't agree with I would think hard and make a decision- do I start over, at another school? Or do I comply with their requirement.

That is all the hospital is asking these people to do and I don't think they are asking too much.

 

[Anne MN]

Something I just thought about.. the military doesn't care about religous reasons when it comes to vaccines. The only reason they will allow you to skip a shot is if you're allergic. You can get in a heck of a lot of trouble for skipping the shots, more than just getting fired from a civillian job.

You are right- I have had the flu shot and the H1N1 shot.
Armed forces mandates vaccines- you can "opt out" of certain shots- but those are specific reasons- look at the hand outs that you get for your vaccines.

If you refuse a vaccine in the military- you are subject to UCMJ action up to and including discharge.

 

[pigletgirl]

For the safety and wellbeing of the employee and the patient, yes, I do think it was a right thing to do.

 

[FireDancer]

Sure, a grown adult should be allowed to make their own medical choices. I won't argue that.

But that isn't what Dawn and myself disagree with.

We're arguing that the hospital has the right to employ whoever they want. If an adult chooses to go against the requirements of their employer, they have chosen to forfeit their job.
I am going to school for teaching. I have requirements for the days I spend in the local schools- proof of all vaccinations, that I be tested for TB and while it wasn't required it was strongly, strongly recommended we be vaccinated against H1N1 before returning to the classroom.
I follow the requirements of my program because I choose to. If they issued a requirement for something I didn't agree with I would think hard and make a decision- do I start over, at another school? Or do I comply with their requirement.

That is all the hospital is asking these people to do and I don't think they are asking too much.

I guess my deal is that I shouldn't have to leave my job because my health choices don't meet up with what my employer wants. For what it is worth I also don't feel you should have to be vaccinate to teach and students shouldn't have to be to go to school. I think all of those should be choices made by the patient or their parents. Nothing medical should be the business of the school or the employer unless you choose to divulge it (the key word being choose). We have HIPA laws to keep things private and the state of our vaccination should also be one of those things that we can't be forced to share with anyone. An employer can't ask if I have had cancer or if I have an STD, they shouldn't be able to ask if I have been vaccinated.

I would be equally appaled if an employer said they would fire any employer that got a flu shot. In that case it is doing the same thing the hospital in the article is doing, making you choose between your job and your medical beliefs. I wonder how many people who are so in favor of this rule would feel the same if the situation was reversed. It is easy to support a decision when it suits you and not so easy when it doesn't.


It is one of those things that people just won't agree on so in the end we just have to agree to disagree.

 

[roliepolieoliefan]

I'm an RN in a surgery center and I have mixed feeling about mandatory vaccination. I did get a seasonal flu shot but I didn't get H1N1.

I feel as someone stated there are alot of infections going around in a hospital. MRSA, TB, hepatitis, HIV to name a select few.

Maybe if employees were free to actually take sick time and not have to come in when they are sick without repersussions, it would cut down on alot of the passing around of germs. Yea, we get sick days. But if we take them , we are given the 3rd degree, we make our co-workers even more short-staffed then we already are , and then we are given the cold shoulder and crappy assignments when we do return.

Its almost like we have no choice but to come in sick because if we don't, we will get punished for it, one way or another. And its not like this just where I work, its like that everyplace I've ever worked.

 

[Poppinsme]

I also work in a hospital.
And I get vaccinated.


BUT maybe all of you should realize that as a health care worker if I miss more then 6 days a year due to sick leave I can be fired!!!
So many, many of my friends/coworkers come to work sick. And have gotten there patients sick. Because they are afraid of losing there jobs. In some parts of the country there is a health care worker shortage but not where I live. People cant loose there jobs.

How about some outrage over this.

 

[Poppinsme]

i'm an rn in a surgery center and i have mixed feeling about mandatory vaccination. I did get a seasonal flu shot but i didn't get h1n1.

I feel as someone stated there are alot of infections going around in a hospital. Mrsa, tb, hepatitis, hiv to name a select few.

Maybe if employees were free to actually take sick time and not have to come in when they are sick without repersussions, it would cut down on alot of the passing around of germs. Yea, we get sick days. But if we take them , we are given the 3rd degree, we make our co-workers even more short-staffed then we already are , and then we are given the cold shoulder and crappy assignments when we do return.

Its almost like we have no choice but to come in sick because if we don't, we will get punished for it, one way or another. And its not like this just where i work, its like that everyplace i've ever worked.

RIGHT ON SISTER!!!

 

[FireDancer]

I also work in a hospital.
And I get vaccinated.

Hey, as long as that was the choice you came to for yourself and not because you were forced I'm all for it.

BUT maybe all of you should realize that as a health care worker if I miss more then 6 days a year due to sick leave I can be fired!!!
So many, many of my friends/coworkers come to work sick. And have gotten there patients sick. Because they are afraid of losing there jobs. In some parts of the country there is a health care worker shortage but not where I live. People cant loose there jobs.

How about some outrage over this.

We used to get sick days and vacation days where I work and we switched to a PTO system. That means that all of your days off are pooled into one pot. If you aren't sick you get them all for vacation. If you get sick and need all of them for sick days you can do that too. It just seems a better way to go for the employee and the employer.

 

[mhsjax]

I'm an RN in a surgery center and I have mixed feeling about mandatory vaccination. I did get a seasonal flu shot but I didn't get H1N1.

I feel as someone stated there are alot of infections going around in a hospital. MRSA, TB, hepatitis, HIV to name a select few.

Maybe if employees were free to actually take sick time and not have to come in when they are sick without repersussions, it would cut down on alot of the passing around of germs. Yea, we get sick days. But if we take them , we are given the 3rd degree, we make our co-workers even more short-staffed then we already are , and then we are given the cold shoulder and crappy assignments when we do return.

Its almost like we have no choice but to come in sick because if we don't, we will get punished for it, one way or another. And its not like this just where I work, its like that everyplace I've ever worked.

I am so glad you said this, I am the one who talked about the other infections, but I guess since I am not an actual nurse what i say doesn't matter. I do have many friend that are nurses and they all say the same thing that you do. Hospitals don't care about the vaccine, they just don't want their overworked and underpaid nurses and techs to be able to take the time off that they have legally and rightfully earned.

 

[mhsjax]

Hey, as long as that was the choice you came to for yourself and not because you were forced I'm all for it.




We used to get sick days and vacation days where I work and we switched to a PTO system. That means that all of your days off are pooled into one pot. If you aren't sick you get them all for vacation. If you get sick and need all of them for sick days you can do that too. It just seems a better way to go for the employee and the employer.

It doesn't matter for most nurses, they can have 6 weeks off accumulated sick time, they can't take it without getting punished in one way or another.

 

[FireDancer]

It doesn't matter for most nurses, they can have 6 weeks off accumulated sick time, they can't take it without getting punished in one way or another.

Huh, kind of defeats the purpose then if you ask me .

 

[Poppinsme]

Huh, kind of defeats the purpose then if you ask me .

Crazy huh!

 

[Geoff_M]

"I do not vaccinate because I am willing to let my immune system handle anything I get."

- FireDancer, 12-Jan-2009, 4:42 PM EST

I just wanted to highlight that because every now and then someone posts something that simply takes your breath away and all you can say is "Wow..."

Let's hope that either your immune system is somehow super-human or that you aren't unfortunate enough to come across an organism that normal human immune systems all too often cannot "handle".