VWL is now Boulder Ridge

[wdrl]

Not too confusing once explained....lol....that's kind of different though. Unlike anything DVC has done before, two separate DVC in the same location. I don't own VWL, but I bet people who own there thought they would be able to book the cabins and new DVC rooms with their booking window.....or was it always known it was a separate DVC?

Its been common knowledge for some time that Boulder Ridge and Copper Creek would be separate condo associations. Even before the announcement, it was thought that they would be separate condo associations due to the disparity between the ending dates of the two resorts. Boulder Ridge will expire in 2042, while the new Copper Creek won't expire until 2068 or so.

I'm not sure if the existing BRV owners are that upset that they will have to wait until the 7-month window opens before they can book any of the new cabins or villas. Keep in mind that by having two separate resorts, the new Copper Creek owners can't book the old BRV villas during BRV's home resort period. Given that Copper Creek's villas will probably cost more points than BRV's villas, current BRV owners would be upset if Copper Creek owners started to compete with the BRV owners for the cheaper BRV villas during a common home resort period.

 

[thebigman65]

Its been common knowledge for some time that Boulder Ridge and Copper Creek would be separate condo associations. Even before the announcement, it was thought that they would be separate condo associations due to the disparity between the ending dates of the two resorts. Boulder Ridge will expire in 2042, while the new Copper Creek won't expire until 2068 or so.

I'm not sure if the existing BRV owners are that upset that they will have to wait until the 7-month window opens before they can book any of the new cabins or villas. Keep in mind that by having two separate resorts, the new Copper Creek owners can't book the old BRV villas during BRV's home resort period. Given that Copper Creek's villas will probably cost more points than BRV's villas, current BRV owners would be upset if Copper Creek owners started to compete with the BRV owners for the cheaper BRV villas during a common home resort period.

Ya, so there's the rub....cabins I can understand.....similar to the poly bungalows.....but now you will have 2 price points for essentially the same room and the same resort. I don't see how that becomes sellable for DVC....I wouldnt buy it, that for sure. Sorry, I guess I am hijacking the thread a little. Just seems a little weird, but hey, what do I know!

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Ya, so there's the rub....cabins I can understand.....similar to the poly bungalows.....but now you will have 2 price points for essentially the same room and the same resort. I don't see how that becomes sellable for DVC....I wouldnt buy it, that for sure. Sorry, I guess I am hijacking the thread a little. Just seems a little weird, but hey, what do I know!

Point requirements have not been published yet so we really don't know how that's going to go. The point creep over the years has been fairly significant since the original VWL though and it's hard to imagine they'd go backwards on that so it will be interesting to see how Disney will handle it. Perhaps they're going to have something "extra" in the new rooms that they can use to justify a bigger point cost. Or with more points the dues can be spread out more so while it requires you buy more points it may all even out on the dues side.

 

[sleepydog25]

Ya, so there's the rub....cabins I can understand.....similar to the poly bungalows.....but now you will have 2 price points for essentially the same room and the same resort. I don't see how that becomes sellable for DVC....I wouldnt buy it, that for sure. Sorry, I guess I am hijacking the thread a little. Just seems a little weird, but hey, what do I know!

Actually, that's a fair point and one that's been discussed on other threads. Naturally, DVC isn't going to lower point prices or points per room requirements with a new resort--there will definitely be a price creep on both. How they make it worthwhile remains to be seen, but my conjecture is they will make the new rooms in the main building very nice, a cut above the current VWL rooms. As you suggest, the cabins themselves will be something extravagant, thus adding more cachet to the entire project even if most who buy points there won't be able to afford more than one night in the cabins. Further, there will be a new pool and what appears to be a new QS location, as well as the potential for other items such as cabanas or activities center. Those will almost certainly be open to everyone at WL; however, they can still tout those as reasons to invest in new DVC units. Will it fly? Poly hasn't seemed to sell as quickly as they'd hoped, and Aulani is still looking for potential DVC owners after all these years, so a new WL resort may be a hard sell, indeed.

 

[thebigman65]

Actually, that's a fair point and one that's been discussed on other threads. Naturally, DVC isn't going to lower point prices or points per room requirements with a new resort--there will definitely be a price creep on both. How they make it worthwhile remains to be seen, but my conjecture is they will make the new rooms in the main building very nice, a cut above the current VWL rooms. As you suggest, the cabins themselves will be something extravagant, thus adding more cachet to the entire project even if most who buy points there won't be able to afford more than one night in the cabins. Further, there will be a new pool and what appears to be a new QS location, as well as the potential for other items such as cabanas or activities center. Those will almost certainly be open to everyone at WL; however, they can still tout those as reasons to invest in new DVC units. Will it fly? Poly hasn't seemed to sell as quickly as they'd hoped, and Aulani is still looking for potential DVC owners after all these years, so a new WL resort may be a hard sell, indeed.

My problem with it would be that, if it is like you say, nicer rooms for the CC villas at a higher price point, then they are essentially creating a 2 tiered DVC location. All DVC resorts are supposed to be sold and marketed as Deluxe resorts....now you have 2 levels of deluxe in the same location....I am not sure how they will market that.....For me I would have to book at 7 months regardless, but if I was booking at 7 months, I would book Bolder Ridge, not CC....i am sure they will suck in some of the more nieve buyers.....but.....

 

[Granny]

Ya, so there's the rub....cabins I can understand.....similar to the poly bungalows.....but now you will have 2 price points for essentially the same room and the same resort. I don't see how that becomes sellable for DVC....I wouldnt buy it, that for sure. Sorry, I guess I am hijacking the thread a little. Just seems a little weird, but hey, what do I know!

On the previous page on this thread I posted the following as ways that Disney could "justify" a higher point cost per night for CCV versus VWL:

• I think one thing they can do is design the 1BR and 2BR villas at CCV with the sleeper chair and/or add the drop down bed. Either would constitute a clear enhancement over VWL layouts. Who knows, they might even add a sleeper chair to the studios.

• They could add an extra bathroom to 1BR/2BR layouts similar to AKV & BLT. Again, that would be a very large enhancement.

• They could actually use theming in their decor, which they stripped at VWL during the latest refurb. While that's not much, it would constitute an enhancement.

• They could come up with some other gizmo just to pump up the allure of CCV. Who knows...but relatively small things like Keurig coffee makers, or other perks could allow Disney sales people to trumpet the point schedule as valid.

My problem with it would be that, if it is like you say, nicer rooms for the CC villas at a higher price point, then they are essentially creating a 2 tiered DVC location. All DVC resorts are supposed to be sold and marketed as Deluxe resorts....now you have 2 levels of deluxe in the same location....I am not sure how they will market that.....For me I would have to book at 7 months regardless, but if I was booking at 7 months, I would book Bolder Ridge, not CC....i am sure they will suck in some of the more nieve buyers.....but.....

Not all DVCs are created equal. OKW has much larger 1BR & 2BR villas. Some have studios that sleep 5, others sleep 4 (officially). Some have sleeper chairs to add to occupancy levels. Some have an extra full bathroom for 1BR & 2BR. One current DVC resort has access to Club Level at its resort, which I should have included in the list above.

VWL has no Grand Villas...so they could also include those in CCV.

I don't see it as a major obstacle for Disney. I'm sure they'll do enough extra to give their sales people enough ammunition to rope in prospective buyers.

As for what gets booked at the 7 month window, I doubt that Disney could care less. Why should they?

It will be interesting to be sure.

 

[Deb & Bill]

The real question is what will be the points per unit.

Actually, the real question is what will the annual member fees be for these new units. Especially in five or ten years.

 

[Deb & Bill]

... I don't own VWL, but I bet people who own there thought they would be able to book the cabins and new DVC rooms with their booking window.....or was it always known it was a separate DVC?

If you think that and own VWL (BRV), you don't know Disney. With 26 years left in my contract, I'd be foolish to think that way. Now if it was 35 or 40 years left, maybe. Like they did at OKW with the three buildings that replaced the Commodore House and the addition of THV at SSR. Both those two additions were far too small to create a new DVC unit.

 

[sleepydog25]

My problem with it would be that, if it is like you say, nicer rooms for the CC villas at a higher price point, then they are essentially creating a 2 tiered DVC location. All DVC resorts are supposed to be sold and marketed as Deluxe resorts....now you have 2 levels of deluxe in the same location....I am not sure how they will market that.....For me I would have to book at 7 months regardless, but if I was booking at 7 months, I would book Bolder Ridge, not CC....i am sure they will suck in some of the more nieve buyers.....but.....

Like Granny, I have to politely disagree with the basic premise that Disney is creating a 2-tiered DVC location. CCVC will be its own resort with newer rooms, cabins, and more importantly to many, a contract ending 50 years later vice current VWL which will end in 26 years. As a VWL owner, I don't feel that the new resort affects my sense of ownership anymore than VGF or PVB did when they were built. Those cost more per point and in terms of points per night, yet I don't (and won't) have to buy points there. At VWL, I should still get access to the new pool, the new QS location, and at 7 months to the new rooms or cabins. . .as long as I'm willing to pay the extra point cost per night, just like with any other resort. VGF is marketed as a Deluxe, and I've stayed there. Poly is a Deluxe, and I will never stay in a bungalow, but that's part of the cost of a new resort. For those who will never own at either WL DVC resort, then perhaps the new rooms at CCVC will be a harder get, but that is still a resort issue not a tier issue. Like you, I will likely always book at VWL (after all, I do get that at 11 months), but at some point I may try get into the new rooms at 7 months just to see what the fuss is all about.

 

[thebigman65]

If you look at it like its two totally separate resorts (which technically it is now), I guess its not such an issue. I just think this is a unique situation. This is the first time this is taking place and I will be curious to see how it sells. Either way I can only book this resort at 7 months, so it really doesn't matter for me.....I just wonder why they didn't follow the OKW model?....I own at AKV and i would not want this to happen there on this model.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

If you look at it like its two totally separate resorts (which technically it is now), I guess its not such an issue. I just think this is a unique situation. This is the first time this is taking place and I will be curious to see how it sells. Either way I can only book this resort at 7 months, so it really doesn't matter for me.....I just wonder why they didn't follow the OKW model?....I own at AKV and i would not want this to happen there on this model.

Too few years left on the VWL contracts to follow that model. That would really take some great sales people to sell that many points at a resort ending in 2042.

 

[pmaurer74]

Ya, so there's the rub....cabins I can understand.....similar to the poly bungalows.....but now you will have 2 price points for essentially the same room and the same resort. I don't see how that becomes sellable for DVC....I wouldnt buy it, that for sure. Sorry, I guess I am hijacking the thread a little. Just seems a little weird, but hey, what do I know!

I am guessing the rooms are going to be amazing. I would buy if I could to be in the main lodge for sure!

 

[thebigman65]

Too few years left on the VWL contracts to follow that model. That would really take some great sales people to sell that many points at a resort ending in 2042.

That's a good point. I guess the disparity is too large on the years.....hadn't thought of that...also I would imagine if I was going to add on I would want to do it here as its our next favorite after AKV.....it would be tough decision between resale and the new dvc though....can't wait to see the point cost for this......

 

[sleepydog25]

Too few years left on the VWL contracts to follow that model. That would really take some great sales people to sell that many points at a resort ending in 2042.

Yes, and there was quite a kerfuffle when they tried to coerce existing OKW owners into extending their contract. Not sure they want to go there again.

 

[bobbiwoz]

I am not going to buy the new resort, but now that the trees are mostly gone, it is the Lodge that is the main attraction for me in that area. I would love to stay in the lodge. We did before there was a VWL.

 

[Granny]

I am not going to buy the new resort, but now that the trees are mostly gone, it is the Lodge that is the main attraction for me in that area. I would love to stay in the lodge. We did before there was a VWL.

As Sleepy and pmaurer indicated, I too think that booking a stay in the Lodge section of CCV may be something we want to try in the future. But if the points per night is a huge step up from VWL (like VGF and PBV are) then my guess is that I'll never make that reservation.

We stayed in the Lodge twice and were in the North wing, and with its view of Wishes so clear now that could be cool. At that time it was called a Woods View room, and cost less per night than a Courtyard View room. It will be interesting to see if Disney changes the cost per night for these rooms as the old "Woods View" may become more attractive to people in the future. Also, with only half as many of the regular Lodge rooms available for reservations, I am guessing that the discounting on WL resort rooms may disappear.

 

[disneynutz]

DVD is in the business of selling, period. They will do what ever necessary to make the new VWL seem better to buyers than the old VWL. Better theming, maybe CL, maybe GV, resale restrictions and direct buy only perks , and many want to stay in the main lodge. In addition dues are set low for new resorts and VWL is projected to have a 5.30% increase next year.

Bill

 

[Dean Marino]

Like Granny, I have to politely disagree with the basic premise that Disney is creating a 2-tiered DVC location. CCVC will be its own resort with newer rooms, cabins, and more importantly to many, a contract ending 50 years later vice current VWL which will end in 26 years. As a VWL owner, I don't feel that the new resort affects my sense of ownership anymore than VGF or PVB did when they were built. Those cost more per point and in terms of points per night, yet I don't (and won't) have to buy points there. At VWL, I should still get access to the new pool, the new QS location, and at 7 months to the new rooms or cabins. . .as long as I'm willing to pay the extra point cost per night, just like with any other resort. VGF is marketed as a Deluxe, and I've stayed there. Poly is a Deluxe, and I will never stay in a bungalow, but that's part of the cost of a new resort. For those who will never own at either WL DVC resort, then perhaps the new rooms at CCVC will be a harder get, but that is still a resort issue not a tier issue. Like you, I will likely always book at VWL (after all, I do get that at 11 months), but at some point I may try get into the new rooms at 7 months just to see what the fuss is all about.

Yup - like this. EXISTING Contract at VWL (ok, call it anything you like). It has a PROPERTY DESCRIPTION - and that's what I am paying for. What is not mine is of no consequence. But God help you if you try to make me pay for anything NOT in the property description.

 

[BWV Dreamin]

We will have a 3 night reservation next October At Boulder Ridge ( just hate this name ) I am hoping they will open up reservations so we can switch over to the new rooms at 7 months. I'm hoping the new points chart is not too much higher than the current chart. Probably the only time we'll stay there as this will be a post cruise stay.

 

[Dean]

Ya, so there's the rub....cabins I can understand.....similar to the poly bungalows.....but now you will have 2 price points for essentially the same room and the same resort. I don't see how that becomes sellable for DVC....I wouldnt buy it, that for sure. Sorry, I guess I am hijacking the thread a little. Just seems a little weird, but hey, what do I know!

They sold SSR, they'll sell Poly and they'll sell Copper Creek. We really don't know enough specifics to make an informed choice.

My problem with it would be that, if it is like you say, nicer rooms for the CC villas at a higher price point, then they are essentially creating a 2 tiered DVC location. All DVC resorts are supposed to be sold and marketed as Deluxe resorts....now you have 2 levels of deluxe in the same location....I am not sure how they will market that.....For me I would have to book at 7 months regardless, but if I was booking at 7 months, I would book Bolder Ridge, not CC....i am sure they will suck in some of the more nieve buyers.....but.....

All timeshares have multiple tiers that I now of, anyone who isn't OK with that concept likely shouldn't play in the timeshare sandbox. They are marketed as home away from home, they really aren't deluxe in the true sense IMO. They are sold as timeshares, plain and simple, governed under the applicable rules and laws, nothing more. You'll have resale and retail buyers at both so more than 2 classes in a sense.

If you look at it like its two totally separate resorts (which technically it is now), I guess its not such an issue. I just think this is a unique situation. This is the first time this is taking place and I will be curious to see how it sells. Either way I can only book this resort at 7 months, so it really doesn't matter for me.....I just wonder why they didn't follow the OKW model?....I own at AKV and i would not want this to happen there on this model.

It may be unique to DVC but isn't in the timeshare world. I know of resorts that have multiple separate timeshare systems within a given resort. Marriott runs 2 parallel systems with their weeks and trust points system, technically and legally completely separate but same resorts and customer service. Marriott also has multiple resorts with separate timeshares on one campus, as many as 5 for Vail (2 have since been pushed out of Marriott) Plus Marriott has a 6 tier VIP system. The OKW model wouldn't have worked without extending CC first and that would have taken a couple of years to implement plus the OKW extension was a failure by all accounts I am aware of. As written, they can't extend part without extending all.