Voting fraud in Ohio?

Originally posted by Island_Lauri
"preconceived agenda"

Exactly - as in Diebold's Executive O'Dell who last fall penned a letter pledging his commitment "to helping Ohio deliver its electoral votes to the President."



Following your logic, the software developers would have to know, well in advance, where the voting machines were being shipped, and what the demographic make up of those locations would be well before any election happened.

As for why I voted absentee, what does it matter?
 
Originally posted by Puffy2
Click here for full explainations of Electronic Voting Machines and Fraud

The site is www.blackboxvoting.org and it was started by a journalist quite a long time ago - way before this election started heating up. This journalist has been threatened by the FBI, her site hacked on many occasions, the FBI wanted lists of people on her email lists, it goes on and on.

The notion of electronic voting machines without a paper trail is moronic and it astonishes me how thinking people can think that this is acceptable. Diabold, the company that sold Georgia all of it's machines, has a CEO who is a major contributor to the Republican Party.

But electonic voting and the fraud that can go with it is a bipartisan issue. Educate yourself, visit Bev Harris' site (listed above) - take the time to watch the video on the site (link located at the bottom of the main page on her website) - you will learn a lot.
By the way , this is
From CNN news.
COLUMBUS, Ohio (AP) -- An error with an electronic voting system gave President Bush 3,893 extra votes in suburban Columbus, elections officials said.

Franklin County's unofficial results had Bush receiving 4,258 votes to Democrat John Kerry's 260 votes in a precinct in Gahanna. Records show only 638 voters cast ballots in that precinct

Does anyone else find it rather ironic that a site that is against electronic voting asks for contributions via PayPal?
 
Originally posted by doubletrouble_vb
Voter Fraud? I'm sure there are ways to work on that. A paper trail for electronic voting?...there are already states out there that have it. This is no more complex than the itty bitty piece of paper that ejects from the gas tank or the atm...I thought one state had a mechanism where you saw your paper ballot before it dropped into a hopper. Machines do get fubarred never mind any conspiracy theories.


If we followed the same skepticims about electronic voting in the banking industry, we would never have ATM's, or the banking industry as we know it. I find it rather odd the people think nothing of entrusting their money to a bank that bascially manages your money with computers, but they look for boogie-man behiind every door when it comes to voting every four years. Which has more personal risk? Which presents more temptation for fraud? Are you really telling me we can build an electronic voting system that is as reliable as putting your money in a bank?
 
Paypal gives a receipt both when you make payment and it is also sent to your email address.

In Georgia, there is NO paper trail at all. A "recount" involves looking at the machine and going "yep, that's what it says". How pathetic is that. (Of course I have my own theory why we - Georgia - are the only state with 100% electronic voting with NO paper trail - they thought they try their voter fraud in a dumb state first - you see our SAT scoresare at the bottom...:rolleyes: )

What gets me is that on our Secretary of States Website it says in big letters "GEORGIA VOTERS LOVE ELECTRONIC VOTING" - talk about trying to shovel something foul down our throats! And get this folks, our Secretary of State, Kathy Cox, whom I have supported in the past - but never again - since she didn't say boo about these crappy machines, will probably run for Governor next term (hummm, make no protest about the fraudulent machines....get a governorship.....not a bad deal).



Following your logic, the software developers would have to know, well in advance, where the voting machines were being shipped, and what the demographic make up of those locations would be well before any election happened.

Diebold sold these machines, don't you think they shipped them too? They also have access to the same statistics as anyone else. Diebold isn't exactly the most honest corporation either - California's Secretary of State has considered filing criminal charges in connection with the machines that were purchased from them.

A paper trail is so easy - you get a receipt when you go to the grocery store, you get one at the bank (diebold makes those bank machines too), funny - they didn't make the voting machines with one. Hum....

What gets me the most is that "they" think that the American people are stupid. And, hell, maybe they're right.:(
 

dmadman43, the ATM GIVES A PAPER RECEIPT. I would NEVER leave my bank without a receipt.

If the electronic voting machines gave a paper receipt lisiting all your votes that you could check, and then put in a locked box at the polling location - and those receipts could be COUNTED in case of a recount and compared to the machine results , then THAT would be GREAT!!!
 
Originally posted by Puffy2
dmadman43, the ATM GIVES A PAPER RECEIPT. I would NEVER leave my bank without a receipt.

If the electronic voting machines gave a paper receipt lisiting all your votes that you could check, and then put in a locked box at the polling location - and those receipts could be COUNTED in case of a recount and compared to the machine results , then THAT would be GREAT!!!

You're missing my point. Is that the only objection to electronic voting? No paper receipt? Good grief. Tha's the easiest problem to solve

BTW, your bank doesn't give you a paper reciept when your funds are moved around the country.
 
Originally posted by Puffy2
Diebold sold these machines, don't you think they shipped them too? They also have access to the same statistics as anyone else. Diebold isn't exactly the most honest corporation either - California's Secretary of State has considered filing criminal charges in connection with the machines that were purchased from them.


Are you suggesting that Diebold writes different software packages for different precincts? Are you suggesting they have programmers on the shipping floor re-jiggering the software before they are shipped out? What motivates them to do that? Are you saying they would go to that extreme simply because the CEO may be a Bush supporter?

GaryM... Don't stop investing in Alcoa!!!
 
Originally posted by dmadman43
You're missing my point. Is that the only objection to electronic voting? No paper receipt? Good grief. Tha's the easiest problem to solve.

I have no idea if that's the only objection to electronic voting but it is a big one. And I certainly agree its an easy to solve problem. Not a receipt given to a voter but one that is dropped into a container just in case a recount is needed or there is a problem with a machine. Dropping thousands of votes should not be an option.

Electronic transactions are not yet safe. Just because we use ATMs, credit cards, purchase things on the internet or use a modern bank doesn't mean the process is foolproof. For heaven's sake Home Depot charged me with $3,000 worth of goods I didn't buy! Finding stories of improper charges or withdrawals from accounts is very easy to do. The retail industry (including banks) chooses to accept a certain level of error as a cost of doing business. Will there be errors in electronic voting. Yes. But unlike retail the voter is supposed to be anonymous...the victimized voter won't be able to stand up and say hey wait a minute where's my vote?

PS. I'm not a conspiracy theorist. I don't think Bush stole the election through a diabolical plot with Diebold (because I think the Diebold programmers could have done a better job if that were the case). I do think there are logistical problems with the way we carry out elections that could be resolved using common sense.
 
When I was in college, I worked in a bank and one of my jobs was to reconcile the ATM machines, mostly made by Diebold. I am not in the least bit surprised that they make crappy voting machines since they make crappy ATM machines. ATM machines screw up all the time Keep your receipts, check your receipts and reconcile your back statement every month (or more if you have electronic access)

I don't see what the problem with the pen and paper ballots is? In my precinct, we fill out our ballot by coloring the little squares next to our candidate/choice like an SAT test, easy as pie. They can be fed into a counter or manually counted. When I hand in my ballot, I get a little piece of perferated paper off the top which is my "recipt" It could be matched by number to the ballot, if necessary. Seems like a good enough system to me.
 
HA HA HA HA ha ha ha ha....

Give me a break... all of the Diebold crap happened in AUGUST 2003..check the dates yourself. Did you hear me AUGUST 2003..and now people are questioning the “diebold connection”…give me a break. If the DNC was stupid enough NOT to investigate it in AUGUST 2003 when it hit the news..then shame on them.

Diebold even has the below O’Dell piece on their web site:

(from SEPTEMBER 2003)

Diebold Executive to Keep Lower Profile

From the Sept. 16, 2003, edition of The Plain Dealer
By Julie Carr Smyth, Plain Dealer Bureau


An Ohio voting-machine executive pummeled with national criticism for his close ties to the Bush re-election campaign said yesterday he wants to make amends.

Walden O'Dell, chief executive of North Canton-based Diebold Inc., confirmed in an interview with Plain Dealer editors that he has been a top fund-raiser for the Republican president, but said he intends to lower his political profile and "try to be more sensitive" in light of the national criticism he has faced.

"I'm not doing anything wrong or complicated, but it obviously did leave me open to the criticism I've received," he said.

"I've taken it personally; it's very painful, it may have injured our company, and I feel really badly about that."

In an invitation to a Republican fund-raiser at his suburban Columbus mansion, O'Dell said he was "committed to helping Ohio deliver its electoral votes for the president next year."

The letter closely followed a visit by O'Dell to a fund-raising powwow at Bush's Crawford, Texas, ranch for six-figure fund-raisers known as "Pioneers and Rangers."

He said he regrets the wording in the letter.

"I'm a pretty experienced business leader, but a real novice on the political side of this. This blind-sided me," O'Dell said. "I don't have a political adviser or a screener or a letter reviewer or any of that stuff."

Because the fund-raising revelations fell closely on the heels of security questions raised about Diebold's machines in a later-questioned Johns Hopkins University study, O'Dell's critics began to suggest that Diebold should not be allowed to be involved in elections.

The company was at the time vying for a place on Ohio's favored-vendor list, which it has since won.

"I wouldn't have imagined it, but now that I'm painfully aware of this issue, I will obviously be much more politically sensitive, cautious and try to be more balanced," O'Dell said.

He called Diebold "a model of integrity and reporting and clarity and disclosure and consistency" and said he hopes his company - which employs 3,000 Ohioans - does not suffer because of his personal mistake.

"I can see it now, but I never imagined that people could say that just because you've got a political favorite that you might commit this treasonous felony atrocity to try to change the outcome of an election," he said. "I wouldn't and couldn't."

O'Dell was quick to point out that he has done nothing illegal. He also said he has no daily involvement with Diebold's election-systems division, which is based in Texas - and run by a registered Democrat.

He said the elections business is responsible for just $100 million of Diebold's $2.1 billion operation.

Despite his regrets, O'Dell said he will not stop supporting Bush's campaign. He said he went to Bush's fund-raising event at the invitation of the campaign.

"They had an event for Pioneers and Rangers, and I am one - and proud of it," O'Dell said. " . . . [But] if I have kind of overmixed that with my corporate entity, I feel badly about that."

Diebold O'Dell piece from their website newsroom
 


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