Voting fraud in Ohio?

[Island_Lauri]

Originally posted by BuckNaked
Thanks - I'm a computer programmer, so I know very well what a computer can do and how to make it do it.

I also know that you can't take the 136,852 vote surplus that Kerry had in the 15 electronic voting counties in Florida and turn it into a 377,216 vote surplus for Bush statewide. The numbers were in the other thread where you were suggesting that the numbers had probably been manipulated by the electronic voting machines.

Why exactly would that be? You can manipulate numbers anyway you want to. Why can't you record every 20th vote for Bush as +2 and every 20th vote for Kerry as -2?

 

[bsnyder]

Originally posted by Island_Lauri
Why exactly would that be? You can manipulate numbers anyway you want to. Why can't you record every 20th vote for Bush as +2 and every 20th vote for Kerry as -2?

And this would be happening in all the counties in Florida, where the Democrats overwhelmingly control the county elections offices?

 

[Island_Lauri]

Originally posted by bsnyder
Letting people pay for a receipt voluntarily would never fly with the liberals...

Obviously you are wrong about that - as you are the one against it and I am not. And I am pretty sure that you aren't the "liberal".

 

[bsnyder]

Originally posted by Island_Lauri
Obviously you are wrong about that - as you are the one against it and I am not. And I am pretty sure that you aren't the "liberal".

Well, I can guarantee you that it won't fly with most of the liberals I know, for precisely the reason I stated.

 

[BuckNaked]

Originally posted by Island_Lauri
Why exactly would that be? You can manipulate numbers anyway you want to. Why can't you record every 20th vote for Bush as +2 and every 20th vote for Kerry as -2?

Please re-read what I wrote. There were 15 counties in Florida (out of 67) that used electronic voting machines. In those 15 counties, Kerry won 2,059,572 votes, and Bush won 1,922,720 votes. Kerry won 136,852 MORE votes in those 15 counties than Bush did.

So, if he won 136,852 MORE votes than Bush in those counties, how did he end up with a statewide deficit of 377,216 if the machines were rigged? Votes don't cross counties - any surplus of Kerry's in the 15 electronic counties could only be made up by Bush in the counties that didn't use electronic machines. And as the remaining 52 counties were not using electronic machines, electronic machines could not account for Bush overcoming the deficit he had coming out of the 15 counties.

 

[BuckNaked]

Originally posted by Island_Lauri
Obviously you are wrong about that - as you are the one against it and I am not. And I am pretty sure that you aren't the "liberal".

Obviously she's not. Liberals were at the forefront of fighting against poll taxes, and rightfully so. Having someone have to pay to vote at the polls is illegal.

 

[Island_Lauri]

Originally posted by bsnyder
And this would be happening in all the counties in Florida, where the Democrats overwhelmingly control the county elections offices?

I do not know the parties that control the county election offices in Florida and don't really care.

But if a percinct in Ohio can record 3500+ more votes when only 650 were cast and a NC can lost 4500+ votes, than anything is possible.

 

[BuckNaked]

Originally posted by Island_Lauri
I do not know the parties that control the county election offices in Florida and don't really care.

But if a percint in Ohio can record 3500+ more votes when only 650 were cast and a NC can lost 4500+ votes, than anything is possible.

Then please explain to me how Bush overcame Kerry's lead in the electronic voting counties. If, as you allege, the electronic machines were manipulated to give Bush more votes, how did he end up losing in the aggregate of those counties but still winning the state?

 

[bsnyder]

Originally posted by Island_Lauri
I do not know the parties that control the county election offices in Florida and don't really care.

Well, of course you don't. Because that would explode your myth of the "stolen" election of Florida in 2000.

 

[Island_Lauri]

Originally posted by BuckNaked
Obviously she's not. Liberals were at the forefront of fighting against poll taxes, and rightfully so. Having someone have to pay to vote at the polls is illegal.

I am NOT saying that someone should ever have to pay to vote. I am saying that if you feel it is TOO EXPENSIVE to provide a paper trail for a vote, maybe there are peoplewho would care enough to pay for that receipt.

The bottom line is I don't beleive that it is TOO EXPENSIVE for a paper trail to be provided by the government in the first place. It is all about priorities. I think the government spends way too much on the bombs they blow up. I mean, haven't we spent close to $200 Billion Dollars to make sure that Iraq can have "fair" elections come next January.

 

[BuckNaked]

Have you figured out yet how the machines that were apparently rigged to give Bush the victory ended up giving more votes to Kerry?

 

[dmadman43]

Originally posted by Island_Lauri
What numbers?

A computer program can do many things. It can say every vote registered for Candidate A be recorded as Candidate B. It can say once you get to 10,000 for Candidate A, subtract 1 number for every recorded vote after that point. And obviously, it can say once you reach 3,005 just stop counting.

If .... then... programming. Very basic.

That would be making the assumption that the programmers were clairvoyant and had a preconceived agenda before they started programming. You may know very rudimentary programming concepts, but you obviously know nothing about software development projects. Care to try another conspiracy.

BTW, I voted absentee...got no receipt that my ballot was received.

 

[Island_Lauri]

Originally posted by BuckNaked
Then please explain to me how Bush overcame Kerry's lead in the electronic voting counties. If, as you allege, the electronic machines were manipulated to give Bush more votes, how did he end up losing in the aggregate of those counties but still winning the state?

It is way too late for this - in more ways than one.

But let's see - Kerry won by 443,000 votes in Broward County with Bush showing 238,000 votes. Maybe Bush only got 138,000 and Kerry got 543,000 votes. A 100,000 here, a 100,000 there, you can get to the 377,000 votes difference than Bush won by. Of course, you only need to shift 1/2 that number to make the difference.

As I don't know what political party is involved in county elections in Florida, I don't know exactly how many people in Florida voted on Electronic paperless voting machines. I do know that "About one third of U.S. voters will use some form of electronic balloting this general election" and I also know that according to Caltech-MIT Voting Technology Project:

"The group reports that 4 million to 6 million votes were lost in 2000. Of those:


1.5 million to 2 million were lost because of faulty equipment and confusing ballots


1.5 million to 3 million were lost because of registration mix-ups


Up to 1 million were lost because of problems with polling place operations


And there were unknown losses because of absentee ballot problems."


4 to 6 million votes lost in 2000 - and Bush "won" Florida by 500 votes that year. Wonder what the number is this year?

P.S. By the way, how come Broward County and Palm Beach County where Kerry won by 100,000+ votes are still only showing up as 99% counted???

 

[Island_Lauri]

Originally posted by dmadman43
That would be making the assumption that the programmers were clairvoyant and had a preconceived agenda before they started programming. You may know very rudimentary programming concepts, but you obviously know nothing about software development projects. Care to try another conspiracy.

BTW, I voted absentee...got no receipt that my ballot was received.

"preconceived agenda"

Exactly - as in Diebold's Executive O'Dell who last fall penned a letter pledging his commitment "to helping Ohio deliver its electoral votes to the President."

And as far as not getting a receipt on absentee ballots - maybe you should send it in certified mail - receipt requested.....

"And there were unknown losses because of absentee ballot problems."


By the way, did you vote absentee because you were away during the voting period or for some other reason?

 

[BuckNaked]

I actually called my supervisor of elections office about a week and a half before the election to ensure that my ballot had arrived.

But let's see - Kerry won by 443,000 votes in Broward County with Bush showing 238,000 votes. Maybe Bush only got 138,000 and Kerry got 543,000 votes. A 100,000 here, a 100,000 there, you can get to the 377,000 votes difference than Bush won by. Of course, you only need to shift 1/2 that number to make the difference.

But for your theory to hold any water, the electronic voting counties would had to have known, in advance, what the margins would be in the counties that weren't using electronic voting. Otherwise, they wouldn't have known how much to "rig" the programming.

 

[Island_Lauri]

Broward machines count backward
By Eliot Kleinberg

Palm Beach Post Staff Writer

Friday, November 05, 2004

FORT LAUDERDALE — It had to happen. Things were just going too smoothly.

Early Thursday, as Broward County elections officials wrapped up after a long day of canvassing votes, something unusual caught their eye. Tallies should go up as more votes are counted. That's simple math. But in some races, the numbers had gone . . . down.

Officials found the software used in Broward can handle only 32,000 votes per precinct. After that, the system starts counting backward.

Why a voting system would be designed to count backward was a mystery to Broward County Mayor Ilene Lieberman. She was on the phone late Wednesday with Omaha-based Elections Systems and Software.

 

[bsnyder]

Originally posted by Island_Lauri
Broward machines count backward
By Eliot Kleinberg

Palm Beach Post Staff Writer

Friday, November 05, 2004

FORT LAUDERDALE — It had to happen. Things were just going too smoothly.

Early Thursday, as Broward County elections officials wrapped up after a long day of canvassing votes, something unusual caught their eye. Tallies should go up as more votes are counted. That's simple math. But in some races, the numbers had gone . . . down.

Officials found the software used in Broward can handle only 32,000 votes per precinct. After that, the system starts counting backward.

Why a voting system would be designed to count backward was a mystery to Broward County Mayor Ilene Lieberman. She was on the phone late Wednesday with Omaha-based Elections Systems and Software.

Lauri, I'm sure you wouldn't be interested in knowing the party affiliation of the Broward County elections officials, would you?

 

[Island_Lauri]

Originally posted by bsnyder
Lauri, I'm sure you wouldn't be interested in knowing the party affiliation of the Broward County elections officials, would you?

Your point, please?

 

[Puffy2]

Click here for full explainations of Electronic Voting Machines and Fraud

The site is www.blackboxvoting.org and it was started by a journalist quite a long time ago - way before this election started heating up. This journalist has been threatened by the FBI, her site hacked on many occasions, the FBI wanted lists of people on her email lists, it goes on and on.

The notion of electronic voting machines without a paper trail is moronic and it astonishes me how thinking people can think that this is acceptable. Diabold, the company that sold Georgia all of it's machines, has a CEO who is a major contributor to the Republican Party.

But electonic voting and the fraud that can go with it is a bipartisan issue. Educate yourself, visit Bev Harris' site (listed above) - take the time to watch the video on the site (link located at the bottom of the main page on her website) - you will learn a lot.
By the way , this is
From CNN news.
COLUMBUS, Ohio (AP) -- An error with an electronic voting system gave President Bush 3,893 extra votes in suburban Columbus, elections officials said.

Franklin County's unofficial results had Bush receiving 4,258 votes to Democrat John Kerry's 260 votes in a precinct in Gahanna. Records show only 638 voters cast ballots in that precinct

 

[doubletrouble_vb]

Yeesh...

Was there fraud in this election? Probably. There are millions of people in this country and I don't think it is reasonable to expect that all of them will behave fairly when it comes to winning. People cheat. Other people have to handle it. End of story. That's why you have referees in sport.

Voter Fraud? I'm sure there are ways to work on that. A paper trail for electronic voting?...there are already states out there that have it. This is no more complex than the itty bitty piece of paper that ejects from the gas tank or the atm...I thought one state had a mechanism where you saw your paper ballot before it dropped into a hopper. Machines do get fubarred never mind any conspiracy theories.

Are these issues worth spending money on? You betcha. This is one of those pay me now or pay me later deals.