VIP Fastpass question

[Peter Pirate 2]

Having been to Disney pre and post Fast Passes, I disagree. The Fast passes make things better. Why? People waiting on a FastPass are going to other rides, instead of waiting in line clogging it up. This may all be psychological, but I do think the FPs have improved the overall park dynamics. Now, the Universal Express Pass does make things slower. Why? No waiting for them (just paying for them), like with the Disney FP.

What I really hate are the people who actually cut in front (without any kind of pass). We were waiting in line at IOA last week, and a family of 5 (two parents and three kids) came to join their relatives (family of 7) who were in front of us. We had already waited an hour, and these five people just get in front of us.

1. I agree with your FP and EP logic.

2. Re: line cutters, you really need to rise above it. In this case these people had others 'saving spots' and while this touches so many people's sense of fair play the reality is what does it cost you??? If 5 families ahead of you allow 5 people to cut in, that's 25 people. How long to load 25 people on RnR for example? It wouldn't be more than one, maybe two cars and the time factor? Mere minutes. If you've waited an hour, your wait now would probably be 1 hour 5 minutes, BUT you've lost much, much more in enjoyment by allowing yourself to get upset over something that is basically out of your control. Don't sweat the small stuff and you'll be much happier.

 

[tjkraz]

By occupying "two" lines, it does in a sense increase the total number of guests that the attractions need to accommodate. If all of the attractions in which people occupy the standby line while holding a FP were popular (100% utilization), then that could have an adverse effect. But I believe a good percentage of such people are hitting the lesser attractions that are seldom 100% utilized (saving the majors for FP), and not having much of an effect at all.

Two comments:

1. The continued existence of 30-90 minute Standby times at most FastPass attractions demonstrates that there are plenty of people willing to wait in lines. Tens-of-thousands of people per day.

2. I don't know how you would apply any concept of "100% utilization" since it's rare that ANY theme park attraction will send out vehicles at partial capacity. Certainly some attractions have higher capacities than others but the real issue here is wait time.

If a guest is getting a FastPass for Splash Mountain and then going on Pirates, he is extending the wait time of other POTC guests compared to a system which does not have the FastPass option.

There is undoubtedly a psychological advantage to this as few people will complain about a wait of 10 minutes vs. 5 minutes for POTC. But the psychological benefit is likely one of the few that exists.

If there were no FastPass and guests were held to one queue at a time, there would be shorter wait times all around on average.

Under the current system some of the more learned guests reap the benefits by knowing which rides to FP and which to go Standby. Others who do not understand the FastPass system likely experience much longer waits by sticking with Standby queues or arriving at attractions when FPs are gone or when the return time is prohibitive.

...Or not hitting anything and instead having lunch, etc.

I don't know why you would trivialize the impact on dining when looking at the entire system. FastPass even impacts ones ability to eat lunch or dinner at the park. Restaurants have queues just like attractions.

Particularly at peak dining hours during busy times, a park like the Magic Kingdom has tens-of-thousands of guests who can grab a FastPass and THEN head to a restaurant. FastPass gives guests greater flexibility to dine when they find it convenient, but that convenience can lead to capacity issues at restaurants, too. Capacity bottlenecks are the reason that Disney is offering discounts to people willing to dine outside of peak hours.

Restaurant traffic patterns would undoubtedly be different if guests had to choose between standing in an attraction line and eating, rather than the current system which allows guests to do both simultaneously.

The same is true of wait times for character meet-and-greets and reserving space for parades or fireworks shows. Those queues are negatively impacted across the board by FastPass. Many guests don't mind plopping down on the curb along Main Street 90 minutes before the parade if they are holding a FastPass for Space Mountain that can be used after the parade ends. Would they wait 90 minutes for a parade without FastPass? Certainly not in as great of numbers as we see today.

Like I've said all along, FastPass is great for those who know how to best utilize the system. And it's psychological impact is obvious. But my biggest opposition to it is the way in which it reduces spontaneity in park touring. Lines for popular character meets are always 30+ minutes. They would be shorter if those folks were in ride lines instead of holding FastPasses. Guests at DHS wouldn't face 100 minute waits for TSM by noon daily. All theme parks wouldn't be so congested if guests were actually in attraction lines rather than roaming the paths to collect FPs or wait for their return time to arrive.

 

[EMom]

When we were at Disney, a few years ago, we had to rent a wheelchair for my youngest DS. We did not have a GAC, nor did we expect any special treatment, but at every ride we approached the CMs were wanting to wave us to the front of the line. I know this does not really answer the OP's question, but I just wanted to comment on Disney's approach to someone with perceived disabilities. Thankfully it was just a minor thing with my son, but I saw just how great Disney can be with disabled guests and their families.

This is pretty much what we experienced in Dec. 2010. It was rampant. ECV, wheelchair, cane, knee brace, you name it.....anything remotely visible and you and six of your nearest and dearest went right into the fastpass line, never mind that none of you had a fastpass. It was especially popular at TSM. We went exactly one year earlier and I don't remember seeing this happen, even though I'm sure it did occasionally.

But this time we saw it in every park, all 10 days. Often. It was like an epidemic. So when someone protests that a GAC or a disabilty does NOT get a person faster access, I have strongly disagree. Maybe it isn't SUPPOSED to, but it can. My theory is that either the CMs don't understand what a GAC allows or they don't want to get into a disagreement with a guest who expects to go right in, so they just let them in. As with everything else, some people follow the rules and some feel entitled to special treatment. (I'm not talking about you....if they waved you to the front, that wasn't your call.) But the ones who DO feel entitled also tend to be the most vocal, and I don't imagine CMs want to hash it out with them if just quietly letting them go via the fastpass line makes it all go away.

My fear is that as word gets out and as more people start to see what is happening, those with GACs who have been following the rules will look at the "instant fastpassers" and ask themselves, "Why do THEY get to ride _____multiple times while I have to wait in line? What's up with that? They're no worse off than I am." And I can't blame them. This is getting to be so common that it's bound to get ugly and the number of people taking advantage will no doubt multiply rapidly, as already seems to be happening.

As to the "pieces of paper with writing on them," I may be able to shed light on that. DD and I were in line for Dumbo. We were ready to board the last Dumbo available and realized that we were not the only people wanting to get in said Dumbo. It was between us (DD and I) and a mom with 2 very small boys who looked like they were about to drop. Even though DD and I had gotten to the Dumbo first, I told her to take it because her children were younger.

When the CMs saw us walking back to the holding pen, they told us to get on a Dumbo, I told them there WAS no Dumbo for us, and explained that I had let the other family have the only available Dumbo since the kids were younger. Let me just say that they started number crunching. Apparently, Dumbo is a tightly run ship and the numbers must be precise. That baby was not flying until they solved the mystery. Turns out someone had told them that they would "all 4 sit in one Dumbo" but when they saw the miniscule size of the thing compared to their rear ends, they decided to take TWO Dumbos instead of one. Yes, they bogarted our Dumbo.

We couldn't just ride the next time, because they were already loaded for at least the next two times. So they got out two slips of paper and scribbled a few things on it (maybe their name, the number of people in my party, the date....) and gave the two pieces of paper to me. Little xeroxed pieces of paper about the size of a fastpass. Each one was a sort of like a fastpass for the 3 people in our group, for any ride in MK, except that the paper was good even for rides that didn't have fastpasses. If we wanted to use it for something like Dumbo that had no fastpass, we could just show it to a CM and they'd take us to the front of the line. It was to make up for getting diddled out of riding Dumbo when it was our turn and also for giving up our chance to ride so someone else could ride instead. That's the story behind the pieces of paper.

 

[Oglet]

Just to throw it out there whenever I write a No Strings as a FP I usually just ask how many in the group and put "VIP" or "VIP Guest" for the name.

I'm wondering if other cast might do the same thing. Then when another guest gets a glance of it and sees VIP on the no strings they might assume VIP Fast Pass

Just a thought

 

[doconeill]

This is pretty much what we experienced in Dec. 2010. It was rampant. ECV, wheelchair, cane, knee brace, you name it.....anything remotely visible and you and six of your nearest and dearest went right into the fastpass line, never mind that none of you had a fastpass. It was especially popular at TSM. We went exactly one year earlier and I don't remember seeing this happen, even though I'm sure it did occasionally.

We were there in the beginning of Dec, and DFiL had a GAC AND an ECV - and yes, he needed it. He could walk, but slowly, and not for long.

Now, at TSM, we HAD Fastpasses and the ECV, and since we had the ECV we used the handicapped entrance - basically, you bypass the stairs and bridge, and go to the back loading area.

HOWEVER, we still had to wait a fair amount of time, as they only load people from that area periodically - there is NO preference to loading from that platform specifically. We may have had to wait longer than if we DIDN'T have an ECV. It appears that they only load one or two pairs of cars per total cycle, as they have a special wheelchair car for those that can't transfer.

Our experience was otherwise similar, but lines were so long that it really didn't affect anything.

The only way to make it totally fair would be to force someone from the GAC/HC group to wait through the standby line (and they used to do this), but they don't want to split groups up at all. So I think they take from that line periodically (not "front of the line" treatment), depending on the attraction and the ride vehicles, etc.

Trust me, we in general got LESS done than we would have if we didn't have the ECV.

 

[doconeill]

Just to throw it out there whenever I write a No Strings as a FP I usually just ask how many in the group and put "VIP" or "VIP Guest" for the name.

I'm wondering if other cast might do the same thing. Then when another guest gets a glance of it and sees VIP on the no strings they might assume VIP Fast Pass

Just a thought

Is the "No Strings" the hand-written passes? I haven't heard the term before.

They used to just hand out the Re-Entry passes, but I haven't seen one of those in a while.

 

[Oglet]

Is the "No Strings" the hand-written passes? I haven't heard the term before.

They used to just hand out the Re-Entry passes, but I haven't seen one of those in a while.

Yeah, they are called no strings attached and have a cute little picture of Pinocchio on them at the top. There are two kinds that generally are used. One of the two is for fast pass use only, the other can be used for merchandise (replacing ice creams, shoes, autograph books etc etc) or fast pass usage.

 

[pugdog]

This is pretty much what we experienced in Dec. 2010. It was rampant. ECV, wheelchair, cane, knee brace, you name it.....anything remotely visible and you and six of your nearest and dearest went right into the fastpass line, never mind that none of you had a fastpass. It was especially popular at TSM. We went exactly one year earlier and I don't remember seeing this happen, even though I'm sure it did occasionally.

But this time we saw it in every park, all 10 days. Often. It was like an epidemic. So when someone protests that a GAC or a disabilty does NOT get a person faster access, I have strongly disagree. Maybe it isn't SUPPOSED to, but it can... As with everything else, some people follow the rules and some feel entitled to special treatment.

My fear is that as word gets out and as more people start to see what is happening, those with GACs who have been following the rules will look at the "instant fastpassers" and ask themselves,

i do agree with you that people see that handicapped people are pulled to the side and you never see them again. They think that you get on the ride right away. I can tell you from first hand knowledge that is not the case. On average, once we are pulled from the line and are made to wait elsewhere, there is a 30 - 45 minute additional wait in another part of the ride usually at the exit. But when there is only 1-2 handicapped ride cars and there are 4 or more groups waiting in front of you there is a longer wait. Almost always I see the people who were behind us in line getting off the ride and we still have 1-2 parties in front of us waiting to ride. So there is no benefit to cheating the system like they do. The problem is that they don't know about the longer wait and then all they do is make it tougher and a longer wait for those of us that do need the alternative entrance.

 

[EMom]

i do agree with you that people see that handicapped people are pulled to the side and you never see them again. They think that you get on the ride right away. I can tell you from first hand knowledge that is not the case. On average, once we are pulled from the line and are made to wait elsewhere, there is a 30 - 45 minute additional wait in another part of the ride usually at the exit. But when there is only 1-2 handicapped ride cars and there are 4 or more groups waiting in front of you there is a longer wait. Almost always I see the people who were behind us in line getting off the ride and we still have 1-2 parties in front of us waiting to ride. So there is no benefit to cheating the system like they do. The problem is that they don't know about the longer wait and then all they do is make it tougher and a longer wait for those of us that do need the alternative entrance.

No, I am saying they walked/wheeled up to the fastpass entrance (thereby showing they were disabled in some way) and the CMs let them + 6 go into the fastpass line without a fastpass. A few kept on going the wheelchair access route, but many just ditched their wheels outside and went through the FP line with us. Anyone with a cane, knee brace, etc. definitely got in the normal FP line. Those people (canes, braces) along with the wheelchair/ECV ditchers, were let in the FP line with no FP and stayed in it until they boarded. I know, because they were right there with us as we went through the FP line.

This happened even on TSM, when they had to go up those stairs! When you do the parks for 10 days in a row and you see the same thing over and over, at some point it becomes clear you have not misinterpreted anything. Some people are simply taking advantage and their numbers are increasing.

As I have said, we've been to WDW three times prior to this trip. First trip was 7 park days, second was 8 park days, the third was 10 park days and the fourth was also 10 park days. Each of those trips was long enough to notice details. We experienced this repeatedly on our latest trip, which is in stark contrast to our 2005, 2007 and 2009 trips. I cannot tell you how many times we thought, "WTH?" because we kept encountering this situation. Maybe I would have a hard time believing it had I not seen it.....but I did.

 

[EMom]

I am sorry if I cannot make what happened clear. What I am trying to convey is that it is different to anything I have ever seen before. Go to FP entrance without a FP, the CM okays you +6 going in via the FP line even though you have no FP, and you proceed on through with all the other people who DID have FP. You may have left your wheelchair/ECV outside to be able to do this. You walk up stairs if needed and get in a regular car, not a special one. You got on and off the ride pretty quickly for someone without a FP since you were able to go through with the FPers.

And don't tell me that they would need a special car if they are in a wheelchair or ECV. I'm just telling you what we saw.

 

[alaskanabbott]

You very well may have been seeing MAW families. My son was granted his wish last March, and we stayed at GKTW- where many, but not all wish families stay. There are 120 FAMILIES there a night, all going to WDW! Add to that the ones who opt to stay on site for their wish, those who stay at US/IOA and others and I'm sure you would see dozens of wish families at each park everyday. The MAW "magic button" is the ONLY FOTL pass Disney offers. Our son is in a wheelchair and we have used the GAC and usually we wait as long, and often LONGER than most people. We use the GAC b/c he cannot do stairs, and some other issues that require the GAC, it would be SOOOO much faster to get thru the parks with an able bodied person, but we are happy for the accomadations WDW provides.

 

[Disneyadore]

No, I am saying they walked/wheeled up to the fastpass entrance (thereby showing they were disabled in some way) and the CMs let them + 6 go into the fastpass line without a fastpass. A few kept on going the wheelchair access route, but many just ditched their wheels outside and went through the FP line with us. Anyone with a cane, knee brace, etc. definitely got in the normal FP line. Those people (canes, braces) along with the wheelchair/ECV ditchers, were let in the FP line with no FP and stayed in it until they boarded. I know, because they were right there with us as we went through the FP line.

This happened even on TSM, when they had to go up those stairs! When you do the parks for 10 days in a row and you see the same thing over and over, at some point it becomes clear you have not misinterpreted anything. Some people are simply taking advantage and their numbers are increasing.

As I have said, we've been to WDW three times prior to this trip. First trip was 7 park days, second was 8 park days, the third was 10 park days and the fourth was also 10 park days. Each of those trips was long enough to notice details. We experienced this repeatedly on our latest trip, which is in stark contrast to our 2005, 2007 and 2009 trips. I cannot tell you how many times we thought, "WTH?" because we kept encountering this situation. Maybe I would have a hard time believing it had I not seen it.....but I did.

We actual did see that people in a wheelchair with more than six people get "preferred aces".
Waiting in a long line at the Studio's in The Great Movie Ride we saw two different adult wheelchair users and their companions ride twice while we were still waiting for our first time.
They arrived more than half an hour later than all of those waiting patiently.

There was no mistaking because one of them had a parrot on the shoulder and the other was yelling at the CM because he had "to wait" and he was handicapped.
It is very clear that this whole system is abused many many times at the expenses of those who have to wait much longer.

Also as the normal John Doe sees with his own eyes that a GAC has advantages,more and more people using it, and the policy of no questions asked will lead only to more users ,he will want the same. And that is why the special fast passes sooner or later will be introduced to those willing to pay for them.

For us personal we would prefer that Disney introduced the VIP passes like Disney Paris does. They are available for on and off site guests and you would have a choice for waiting for hours or just walk in the FP lines.
We would pay a big surplus on our tickets or room for this.

 

[Oglet]

We actual did see that people in a wheelchair with more than six people get "preferred aces".

I'm not really sure what the problem is with more than 6 people being allowed. It's common knowledge that Disney does not like to split up groups and does its best to keep everyone together, this applies to everyone.

I fully understand your point of view with the GMR, I've noticed CM's putting groups with a ECV or Wheelchair in much faster than those without. I don't stress out over it because honestly I have more important things to be worried about than what some people who I will probably never see again are doing or might not be doing. There are times when people using a GAC wait longer to ride than if they were in a regular line, any time extra I might have had to wait at the GMR while a group skipped ahead of me is probably saved later on when a group that should have been ahead of me (if they waited in a regular line) waits longer to get on a ride.

There will always be people who abuse something, I don't doubt there are people who abuse the GAC program and use it when it only visibly offers some advantage however at the end of the day is it really worth getting stressed, upset or annoyed at? The overwhelming number of GAC users are doing so because they have a valid reason.

Just recently on here there was a post about a CM selling their tickets to someone else, the poster was very upset and annoyed and seemed almost angry they were doing so, while I agree its wrong and against policy to do so is it anyones business other than those involved with it?

If the CM continues to do so they will get caught, be fired and be without a job over what amounts to a small dollar figure v's lost earnings.

I have been guilty of being too worried about what other people are doing at times, It's a fault in myself that I have been working on altering, since doing so I have realized days are less stressful, more enjoyable and when something does go wrong I can adjust and move on far more easily.

 

[doconeill]

We actual did see that people in a wheelchair with more than six people get "preferred aces".
Waiting in a long line at the Studio's in The Great Movie Ride we saw two different adult wheelchair users and their companions ride twice while we were still waiting for our first time.
They arrived more than half an hour later than all of those waiting patiently.

Again, it may have a lot to do with the CMs more than anything, and the particular ride. They could have instructions to load one such group (regardless of size) per vehicle - and if they are the only ones, then yes, they can get on faster. Obviously it's not fair. For all the talk of "mainstreaming" the lines, I wasn't seeing that.

Also as the normal John Doe sees with his own eyes that a GAC has advantages,more and more people using it, and the policy of no questions asked will lead only to more users ,he will want the same.

This is as far as I know NOT a policy, but a law. They are not permitted to ask for verification of any sort of injury or handicap.

 

[pugdog]

I am sorry if I cannot make what happened clear. What I am trying to convey is that it is different to anything I have ever seen before. Go to FP entrance without a FP, the CM okays you +6 going in via the FP line even though you have no FP, and you proceed on through with all the other people who DID have FP. You may have left your wheelchair/ECV outside to be able to do this. You walk up stairs if needed and get in a regular car, not a special one. You got on and off the ride pretty quickly for someone without a FP since you were able to go through with the FPers.

I totally understand what you are saying. I have seen it several times myself. Some of the rides handicapped people are suppose to go to the FP to ride. Unfortunately others that know about that abuse it and then people get upset at the people that really need the different accommodations. If thy are leaving the WC/ECV behind they should be kicked out of the line but we all know that a CM won't do that.

[/QUOTE]
And don't tell me that they would need a special car if they are in a wheelchair or ECV. I'm just telling you what we saw.[/QUOTE]

If you can not get out of your WC ,like my DW, yes you do need a special car. The people abusing the system, No.

 

[EMom]

I totally understand what you are saying. I have seen it several times myself. Some of the rides handicapped people are suppose to go to the FP to ride. Unfortunately others that know about that abuse it and then people get upset at the people that really need the different accommodations. If thy are leaving the WC/ECV behind they should be kicked out of the line but we all know that a CM won't do that.

And don't tell me that they would need a special car if they are in a wheelchair or ECV. I'm just telling you what we saw.

If you can not get out of your WC ,like my DW, yes you do need a special car. The people abusing the system, No.

The people who are in ECVs/chairs and remain in them, getting in special cars, are not the ones I am talking about. Them, I get. It's the ditchers who are abusing the system and do not even need the special cars that bugged me. If you get right down to it, on this trip, I could have qualified for a GAC. Instead I just adapted my pace, etc. and made the best of it. I figure there are people who need one more than I. But even if I had gotten one, I have a hard time imagining abusing the system the way I saw so many doing. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that if this trend continues, policies regarding GACs may change as a result. And THAT is why people should care that the system is being abused. That abuse may wind up costing even honest GAC users.

 

[cmwade77]

The GAC is intended for those with disabilities. It is not pink and white.

If you are taking your non disabled son on the rides you need to use fastpass or stand in line.

And no need to "trade places" we live it.

I agree, I would personally love to see Disney print your photo on your GAC, I have seen soem many people handing them off to their friends at Disneyland, this is NOT what they are for, they are intended to allow those with disabilities access to attractions.

Now, if you talk with Guest Relations and they issue you the GAC based on the needs of another member of your party, that would be on them.

This is also comes from someone that "lives it" as well.

 

[nytimez]

I recently traveled with someone confined to a wheelchair/ECV for the first time. Sometimes, it works to your "advantage" -- like on Peter Pan, where it's practically a walk-on for the handicapped and other guests who need assistance.

In others, it's the opposite and you have to wait longer... or transfer from an ECV to a normal wheelchair and wait in the normal line, but you have to wait about 10 minutes for a CM to get the wheelchair and bring it to the line -- so you have the normal wait, plus the extra 10 minutes.

In most new attractions, it's roughly the same because the lines were built to accommodate wheelchairs and ECVs.

In shows, you're often confined to the very front of the theater, where it's hard to see the whole stage, or the very back, which is obviously not the best seat in the house.

People tend to focus on the one place they see a person in a wheelchair/ECV getting perceived special treatment, and not see the bigger picture.

Overall, I found it harder to tour the park with someone in an ECV, and overall I don't think we rode more attractions than we would have without one or took less time to do it.

 

[jgates]

There is some different level involved, but I don't know how it is determined.

When we were at DHS a few years ago, we were in the fast pass line with a family of 3 people. The daughter had her leg in a cast, but I really can't remember if she was in a wheelchair or not. We still had a moderate wait in the FP line, but we were discussing their pass - which actually WAS a pass. It was something to do with what her injury entailed & the way the doctor wrote it up - but they did receive FOTL access. I should have made some notes on it at the time & what the pass said but I know we discussed it at length & they were able to just enter the FP lines. Might have been something as simple as the Doctor's written request vs. just walking into Guest Services & saying you need one?

I did ask for a GAC card at Epcot one time. I love Disney, but when it is massively hot & humid the heat will make my blood sugar crash (and FAST) if I stand out in it too long. At Epcot I got a card but only really needed it when we were up in the front area. For some reason the Living Seas was out the door & meandering for a LONG distance along a sidewalk. I was able to wait inside in the shaded area, but still had to wait. For the rest of the attractions at Epcot we headed mostly thru World Showcase that day so I was able to get into a/c buildings with a significantly shorter wait. So this type of GAC card just provided 'assistance' which in my case was a shaded or cooler place to wait, but that could be enough to keep me healthy!

I can't say enough about the fantastic job GKTW does. If you are ever looking for a charity to donate to - this is an A#1 one to consider! I waitress on weekends during the busy season & our restaurant chain is one of the sponsors of the food area. So we see a lot of the good things that happen there. One of our servers spent several days volunteering as a server there also & I think she cries every time she talks about it.

 

[RCaroll]

I unfortunately can shed some light on the GAC as I have an Autistic Son. It is a pink and white card. You can get the card at guest services with the proper documentation. I wear mine on a lanyard so its easier to juggle everything else I'm handling. The card itself is good for 5 guest. ( I have 4 in my party).There are times when I’ll take just my non Autistic son on a ride while my wife and autistic child are waiting for us and not visible to the crowd. I am grateful for this program because my daily window of time at the park is limited and cannot typically take advantage of early or extended hours. I understand some people think this is "unfair" but I would be grateful to trade places.

He's got a good point here.