Villains Land Speculation

[WB1971]

Will be interesting to see if it will result in a net increase in guests, or just prevent the losses to Universal. How many more people can come to Orlando that aren't already doing it?

Agreed, but they are artificially limiting AP attendance to some extent. Can turn on the faucet of growing local population as needed/desired.

 

[asgur5]

Transportation, entrance plaza and Main Street will all automatically be more congested. It’s a very big assumption to conclude that the added square footage per guest will be equal to or greater than number of guests added. I don’t fault them for doing this, but there’s no way I’m celebrating this as making MK less crowded feeling. This will grow the demand, that brings in more people without lowering prices. Think of the added 4 cruise ships announced. If it were truly a zero growth demand model, they’d be foolish to increase capacity. Clearly they believe there is untapped demand for the parks and cruises, so adding on to both the same way. You just can’t easily add a wing onto a ship, but you can a park.

I think you make a good point on transportation and the entrance. That could become more of a bottleneck. I didnt consider that. But if a whole bunch more people are in villians land and frontier land then there is less in fantasyland, tomorrowland and probably main street as well (even if more people walk through main street to get to somewhere else).

 

[Mikey15]

Will be interesting to see if it will result in a net increase in guests, or just prevent the losses to Universal. How many more people can come to Orlando that aren't already doing it?

Orlando is a <10hr drive for about 58 million people, and MCO has about that number in annual passengers (divide by 2 for round trips, but add other airports nearby like Sanford and Tampa).

So there’s no shortage of available people. The cost of MK admission (over $150 for a single day ticket now?) is the main control mechanism to limit park attendance to a semi-reasonable level.

 

[tx911]

Orlando is a <10hr drive for about 58 million people, and MCO has about that number in annual passengers (divide by 2 for round trips, but add other airports nearby like Sanford and Tampa).

So there’s no shortage of available people. The cost of MK admission (over $150 for a single day ticket now?) is the main control mechanism to limit park attendance to a semi-reasonable level.

Yikes

 

[mdmost]

If they're staying inside the existing border of the park and only taking the new land to the railroad then this isn't going to be that big of an addition with tons of room. It will be more compact than Galaxy's Edge and Cars Land in California Adventure. You'd basically have space for a Maleficent roller coaster through the thorns, a Club Villain sit down restaurant with rotating villains walking through, and either a dark ride or family ride. Each will have a small gift shop. I hope they go beyond the railroad but maybe they'll do that with the ride building for the dark ride or the coaster. My hope based on the mockup is they're planning a ride based on Journey to the Center of the Earth from Tokyo Disneysea.

 

[TheDailyMoo]

Can't wait to see how much park tickets and APs are when they wrap all this up...ouch.

But as long as it's worth it. As long as they don't cheap out on any of this and really give it the ol Disney from the 90s treatment. We'll see. I'm hoping it'll both blow us all away and be done on time.

 

[maverik85]

If they're staying inside the existing border of the park and only taking the new land to the railroad then this isn't going to be that big of an addition with tons of room. It will be more compact than Galaxy's Edge and Cars Land in California Adventure. You'd basically have space for a Maleficent roller coaster through the thorns, a Club Villain sit down restaurant with rotating villains walking through, and either a dark ride or family ride. Each will have a small gift shop. I hope they go beyond the railroad but maybe they'll do that with the ride building for the dark ride or the coaster. My hope based on the mockup is they're planning a ride based on Journey to the Center of the Earth from Tokyo Disneysea.

Based on the concept art it looks like the Cars area will be on the smaller side, around 4 acres or so, and just be the southern section of the rivers. This leaves a fairly large space for Villains land north of that. Looking at that area on a map it looks like there will be plenty of space for two e-tickets as well as shops and food. I think from a cost perspective they are planning to keep it within the berm/railroad circuit, but they could always add expansion that go beyond it.

 

[mdmost]

Based on the concept art it looks like the Cars area will be on the smaller side, around 4 acres or so, and just be the southern section of the rivers. This leaves a fairly large space for Villains land north of that. Looking at that area on a map it looks like there will be plenty of space for two e-tickets as well as shops and food. I think from a cost perspective they are planning to keep it within the berm/railroad circuit, but they could always add expansion that go beyond it.

I saw an estimate that the area remaining after Cars goes in would be 8-9 acres. That's smaller than New Fantasyland and Cars Land in California Adventure. Both are around 12 acres. That's not as big as I was hoping they would go. If they dig under the railroad for the show buildings for one or 2 rides at the northern end, similar to how Galaxy's Edge is built then it will be a lot better.

 

[maverik85]

Its about the same size as New Fantasyland without Storybook circus though. Carsland is 12 acres but RSR takes up a large portion of that land. Comapred to New Fantasyland that area uses similar space and has a large extensive meet and greet, a large themed restaurant, a dark ride, and a rollercoaster, along with a few shops and other meet and greet spots. Looking at aerial views of the park, that space could easily fit clones of Splash and BTMRR and leave space for additional buildings for food and shop. So while I would prefer a larger area too, it is still decent for the land. I do hope that they expand it in the future with additional attractions though and built out either on behind Fantasyland or past the railroad. with this whole addition taking up Rivers of America it still leaves all of that original Beyond Big Thunder for expansion. They could maybe port over the Coco boat ride later from California and do a Coco land and expand villains in that space.

 

[zackiedawg]

I think it would be ideal if they simply moved the railroad, expanding the track farther out to provide more room for Villains land, with a new train station at the back of Villains. Frontierland station could still serve for Carsland. I still wonder if the two new lands are meant to squeeze into the exact footprint of the current park boundary for RoA and Tom S, or if some of the additional land beyond the train are to be used - building tunnels or bridges over-under the train seems more complex and costly than just moving and expanding the track and a new Villains station would be very useful.

 

[RedK]

My speculation is around the merch. There are always people posting about looking for a tshirt with Jafar on it or a mug with the Wicked Queen. If Villians Land has villians merch, they could have spectactularly profitable merch sales.

 

[OKW Lover]

I think it would be ideal if they simply moved the railroad, expanding the track farther out to provide more room for Villains land, with a new train station at the back of Villains. Frontierland station could still serve for Carsland. I still wonder if the two new lands are meant to squeeze into the exact footprint of the current park boundary for RoA and Tom S, or if some of the additional land beyond the train are to be used - building tunnels or bridges over-under the train seems more complex and costly than just moving and expanding the track and a new Villains station would be very useful.

Interesting thought. But moving the railroad isn't terribly easy. Yes, it certainly be done. But why do it if you can simply build an attraction that spans the existing rail line.

Adding a train station back there would be a real problem though. It's not far enough to the next stop. The train would hardly get moving before it had to stop again. Even beyond that consideration, it would then add more wait time for load/unload at the new station, delaying the entire circuit.

 

[R&RsMom]

I saw a notice somewhere that the railroad will be closed at some time during construction. Did not say why.

 

[Lesverts]

I have many thoughts about this. And in general the company's announcements.

We got 3 new lands at WDW from 2017-2019. One does assume that there will be a year gap in between the opening of each development (Central America, New Frontierland, Monstropolis and whatever they call Villains). That asks the question which land is which in the timeline of opening? Based on the announcements you would think Central America is going to be first (aside isn't Encanto set in Colombia?) with a ride overlay and redevelopment already seemingly underway. NFL (haha) and Monstropolis seem to be the middle children. Cars is essentially going to be RSR and the Mater ride plus landscaping. The doors coaster has been in the works on and off for like a decade now. I think NFL will open second and be the MK version of TSL. Monstropolis is the interesting one because of the debate around where it is going to go? My guess is in the support building and backstage areas above TSL and behind Sunset with those spaces moving to across the freeway on the southern end of the park. Leaving Villains to open last and likely the year before WDW's Diamond Celebration. So that also raises the question, what is Disney going to do for the Diamond celebration and why is it going to be in Epcot.

As to what the villains area is going to be. It would be nice if it was sort of a villains Fantasy Springs. But obviously it won't touch that scope. I would be disappointed if Yzma isn't apart of it in some way.

 

[Douglas Dubh]

Adding a train station back there would be a real problem though. It's not far enough to the next stop. The train would hardly get moving before it had to stop again.

Disneyland’s is smaller and has four stations.

 

[IDSkinner]

Am I the only one thinking that a Villains Land Resort off of Florida Way behind Villans Land could be such a fun resort? Does anyone else think that would be a unique and potentially immersive experience and potentially a walk on to the park like Contemporary(on the opposite side of the park) and the Grand Californian at Disney Land? Now, I'm not thinking something like the failed Star Wars lodging, but something with dark themes and with Disney touches. Imagine the demand during the Fall at that resort!