Vet backs off attack on Kerry's War Record

[MosMom]

Not sure if this has been posted yet...

Veteran Backs Off Attack on Kerry's War Record


BOSTON (Reuters) - John Kerry's commanding officer in Vietnam has backed away from attacks on the Democratic presidential candidate, saying he made a mistake in accusing the U.S. senator of having lied about his wartime record.

George Elliott, who was one of Kerry's superiors in Vietnam when he was awarded medals for heroic actions, had signed an affidavit suggesting Kerry did not deserve the Silver Star.

In the document, Elliott said, "I was never informed that he had simply shot a wounded, fleeing Viet Cong in the back."

But in Friday's Boston Globe, Elliott said: "It was a terrible mistake probably for me to sign the affidavit with those words. I'm the one in trouble here."


Elliott told the newspaper he thinks Kerry did deserve the medal.


"I still don't think he (Kerry) shot the guy in the back," Elliott is quoted as saying in the Globe.


Kerry used his nominating convention in Boston in July to paint himself as a decorated war hero capable of leading the nation in troubled times and a man better qualified to be commander-in-chief than President Bush.


But Elliott and other members of a group called Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, oppose Kerry.


This week they launched a television advertisement accusing the Democrat of having lied about his service in Vietnam and hurting other veterans by criticizing the war after returning home. Next week the group will publish a book, "Unfit for Command: Swift Boat Veterans Speak Out Against John Kerry."


Elliott was not immediately available for comment.


Kerry, arguing his combat experience in Vietnam qualifies him as a strong leader on national security issues, has surrounded himself with other veterans who have said the candidate did heroic deeds to save his own crew mates.


The new attacks on Kerry sparked an angry response from Republican Sen. John McCain, also a Vietnam veteran, who called the attack dishonorable and dishonest and urged the Bush administration to also denounce the ad.


The administration distanced itself from the advertisement on Thursday but did not condemn it.


"We have not and we will not question Sen. Kerry's service in Vietnam," said White House spokesman Scott McClellan.

 

[Dan Murphy]

Just wanted to say the new picture of the kids, Bridget, is priceless. Too cute.

 

[WillyJ]

Thanks for posting this info Mos Mom. . . it'll be interesting to find out why Elliot made the statement in the first place and I give him lots of credit for admitting he made a mistake and trying to set the record straight.


And you know, the more I hear of this crap I just have to wonder how the men and women serving in Iraq and Afghanistan must feel. . .


I wonder if they worry that because they didn't serve some arbritrary amount of time or because any wounds weren't severe enough that a large segement of the population will see their service as a sham and disgrace. . . or that any medals they've recieved will be suspect in some peoples minds because those people obviously think the military is ran by a bunch of idiots who can be duped into handing out medals to anyone who can make up a story. . .


The people engaging in this nonsense for political gain should be ashamed of themselves.

 

[Pop Daddy]

he later said this Boston reporter (also a Kerry aid) lied and he sitcks by his original story

 

[Saffron]

That's an excellent point Will. But ... not only the men and women serving in Iraq and Afganistan now, but what about all the other Vietnam Veterans who might be wondering if their wounds are severe enough, if their records and medals are suspect, if they served long enough etc.

I wonder why Elliot made those comments too and why he's retracting them now. I too give him lot of credit for standing up and doing what he thinks is the right thing to do.

 

[Pop Daddy]

Anti-Kerry Vietnam Veterans Hold Strong


The following statement from Swift Boat Veterans for Truth is in response to an article appearing in the morning edition of the Boston Globe (“Veteran Retracts Criticism of Kerry”) which implies that one Vietnam Veteran wishes to retract an affidavit he signed regarding John Kerry’s actions during and after Kerry’s time in Vietnam. The signed affidavit can be seen below.
"Captain George Elliott describes an article appearing in today’s edition of the Boston Globe by Mike Kranish as extremely inaccurate and highly misstating his actual views. He reaffirms his statement in the current advertisement paid for by the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, Captain Elliott reaffirms his affidavit in support of that advertisement, and he reaffirms his request that the ad be played. [See both affidavits below.]

“Additional documentation will follow. The article by Mr. Kranish is particularly surprising given page 102 of Mr. Kranish’s own book quoting John Kerry as acknowledging that he killed a single, wounded, fleeing Viet Cong soldier whom he was afraid would turn around.

“Swift Boat Veterans for Truth has more than 250 supporters who are revealing first hand, eyewitness accounts of numerous incidents concerning John Kerry’s military service record. The organization will continue to discuss much of what John Kerry has reported as fact concerning his four-month tour of duty in Vietnam.”

 

[tiggersmom2]

Originally posted by Pop Daddy
Anti-Kerry Vietnam Veterans Hold Strong


The following statement from Swift Boat Veterans for Truth is in response to an article appearing in the morning edition of the Boston Globe (“Veteran Retracts Criticism of Kerry”) which implies that one Vietnam Veteran wishes to retract an affidavit he signed regarding John Kerry’s actions during and after Kerry’s time in Vietnam. The signed affidavit can be seen below.
"Captain George Elliott describes an article appearing in today’s edition of the Boston Globe by Mike Kranish as extremely inaccurate and highly misstating his actual views. He reaffirms his statement in the current advertisement paid for by the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, Captain Elliott reaffirms his affidavit in support of that advertisement, and he reaffirms his request that the ad be played. [See both affidavits below.]

“Additional documentation will follow. The article by Mr. Kranish is particularly surprising given page 102 of Mr. Kranish’s own book quoting John Kerry as acknowledging that he killed a single, wounded, fleeing Viet Cong soldier whom he was afraid would turn around.

“Swift Boat Veterans for Truth has more than 250 supporters who are revealing first hand, eyewitness accounts of numerous incidents concerning John Kerry’s military service record. The organization will continue to discuss much of what John Kerry has reported as fact concerning his four-month tour of duty in Vietnam.”

Thank You Pop Daddy!!! I think this is your longest thread to date and well worth the space it is typed on!


BTW - this is my 1500 post, well worth it!

 

[Saffron]

Wait Jason. What you posted was what someone else said about George Elliot, not what George Elliot said.

What Reuters reported was what Elliot told a reporter for the Globe.

Those are two totally different stories. One is Elliot himself, one is someone saying Elliot didn't say those things.

 

[WillyJ]

Thanks for finding and posting that article Jason. . .


Hard to say now what the truth is as far as what Elliot did or didn't say. . . hopefully he'll be on one of the news channels this weekend and we can find out where he stands straight from the man himself.

 

[Az Pirates]

Originally posted by Saffron
Wait Jason. What you posted was what someone else said about George Elliot, not what George Elliot said.

What Reuters reported was what Elliot told a reporter for the Globe.

Those are two totally different stories. One is Elliot himself, one is someone saying Elliot didn't say those things.

Actually - could be much the same.

What Reuters reported could have been the reporters spin on what Elliot said and/or quotes taken out of context.

I can't even imagine the pressure people who served directly with Kerry are under from both sides to get their stories out there.

 

[MICKEY88]

Originally posted by Pop Daddy
Anti-Kerry Vietnam Veterans Hold Strong


The following statement from Swift Boat Veterans for Truth is in response to an article appearing in the morning edition of the Boston Globe (“Veteran Retracts Criticism of Kerry”) which implies that one Vietnam Veteran wishes to retract an affidavit he signed regarding John Kerry’s actions during and after Kerry’s time in Vietnam. The signed affidavit can be seen below.
"Captain George Elliott describes an article appearing in today’s edition of the Boston Globe by Mike Kranish as extremely inaccurate and highly misstating his actual views. He reaffirms his statement in the current advertisement paid for by the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, Captain Elliott reaffirms his affidavit in support of that advertisement, and he reaffirms his request that the ad be played. [See both affidavits below.]

“Additional documentation will follow. The article by Mr. Kranish is particularly surprising given page 102 of Mr. Kranish’s own book quoting John Kerry as acknowledging that he killed a single, wounded, fleeing Viet Cong soldier whom he was afraid would turn around.

“Swift Boat Veterans for Truth has more than 250 supporters who are revealing first hand, eyewitness accounts of numerous incidents concerning John Kerry’s military service record. The organization will continue to discuss much of what John Kerry has reported as fact concerning his four-month tour of duty in Vietnam.”

Long post.....

 

[jennyanydots]

So let's see...Elliot signed the papers which resulted in Kerry being given a medal. at the time he believed the medal is warranted.

an anti Kerry group gets Elliot to say that "There were facts I didn't know 30 years ago, which if I'd known I wouldn't have signed the papers."

Elliot later tells a reporter "I was mistaken, I shouldn't have said that."

and the group puts out a statement that "Elliot never told the reporter he was mistaken."

I think I'll go with what he said 30 years ago, when the information was fresh.

 

[faithinkarma]

http://www.boston.com/news/necn /

About halfway down the page you'll find a link to a news segment "Kerry's Vietnam Record Attacked." In it you'll see a clip of Elliot standing alongside Kerry, praising his actions in Vietnam.

This guy has lost all credibility.

And curiously enough Elliot himself did not make the statement that the reporter misquoted him, that came from Elliot's wife.

 

[MJames41]

Originally posted by Saffron
That's an excellent point Will. But ... not only the men and women serving in Iraq and Afganistan now, but what about all the other Vietnam Veterans who might be wondering if their wounds are severe enough, if their records and medals are suspect, if they served long enough etc.

As a Vet, I don't think thats at issue. The reason why Kerry is vulnerable and is questioned, in my opinion, is because of the actions he also took after Vietnam. That has to have angered a lot of Vietnam Vets. I don't know for sure, but didn't he go in front of a congressional committee talking about the "horrors" done by the American troops over there?

 

[Saffron]

As a Vet James, it may not be an issue for you, but there *may be* Vets having those thoughts. I don't know if when you read where I wrote "all the other Vietnam Veterans who ..." you thought I meant all Vietnam Vets because that's not what I meant, but I can see that's what someone might think I meant. I meant Vietnam Vets who *might* ... I could edit it and take out the words "all the", but I'm too lazy. I remember worries like those being an issue for some, (*some*) of the Gulf War vets. I heard it on television, I heard it from a soldier in my class who fought in the war. Not that they weren't hurt enough etc. but that their medical or psychological concerns were being poo pooed as not something that had to do with the war, because it was a short war or because they didn't see years of battle etc.

And yes, Kerry did go in front of Congress and talk about his feelings on the American troop involvement in Vietnam, I think because he became someone, like my ex-husband, a soldier who served in Vietnam who changed his views on the war once he served over there. There were horrors committed in Vietnam by American troops. Even if a mission was successful and carried out with as little death or destruction as possible, in some of the soldiers' views it was still horrific. No matter how justifiable a death was, no matter even if death or destruction was necessary for self preservation, those acts can still be seen as horrific. I think that's the nature of some people, even men who serve in wars. I'd actually have to look up the transcripts of Kerry's testimony to see what he said and what he meant, but today I'm sick and too lazy. Sorry.

I don't know if he condemned individual troops or not, I can't remember (I did watch and listen to his taped testimony on C-Span back in the winter because I was interested in him as a member of V V AW, not because he was a potential candidate for the presidency), but I know that he condemned the US politics and military action in Vietnam. That happened. Some men volunteered and changed their mind after coming home. Some mean were drafted who never wanted to go in the first place but felt they had no choice and they condemn the politics and military action in Vietnam. Some men volunteered and some were drafted and have always felt it was the right thing to do and they champion the politics and military action in Vietnam. I doubt you'll find many men who served in Vietnam who will say there were no horrors there. I think killing someone, leaving people homeless, maming people, will always be seen by some as horrific, no matter how justifiable one may think they are. You know what I mean?

Let me put it this way, as former President Jimmy Carter said in his Noble Peace Prize acceptance speech (I know, I know, he may not be anyone's favorite President but ... ), what he said has a lot of meaning for many people. He said, "“War may sometimes be a necessary evil. But no matter how necessary, it is always an evil, never a good. We will not learn to live together in peace by killing each other’s children.” People may not like that statement, but I think a lot of people understand what the man was saying or trying to say. War is evil. Killing may at times be necessary, but that doesn't make it something everyone can or will feel good about. Killing can be horrific. I *think*, but I'm not sure, but I think that sums up Kerry's feeling about the "horrors" of American troops in Vietnam, not the condemation of individual troops. It does mine anyway ... not that I thought Vietnam was necessary, and that is in no way condemning men like yourself, Kerry, McCain, my ex or my brother, just the politics surrounding the war.

Maybe he did condemn individual troops there if he saw something he thought was horrific, something beyond the "normal killing". Ick, what a phrase, "normal killing" I couldn't think of what else to call it. I truly don't remember. And if he did, he's entitiled to that opinion, just as anyone else is entitled to theirs.

And yes James, you're absolutely right once again. It does anger some Vietnam Vets that Kerry spoke out in the early 70's and that he continues to speak out against the Vietnam war and that he was (maybe still is ) a member of Vietnam Veterans Against the War. It also angers some Vietnam Veterans that others didn't speak out and still don't.

Rambling, sorry.

And to address Az Pirates: the first article is Reuters, quoting the Globe, who is quoting Elliot. Confusing and maybe lost in translation I know, but at least there are sources there so someone could research to get to the bottom of what was said. The second article is from the Swiftboat Veterans for Truth, is quoting who , from what source ? There is a difference. Like another poster said, maybe Elliot will come out and clear this thing up. Only he can.

 

[WillyJ]

MJames,

Although we mostly see things differently when it comes to political issues, I've always felt like you stick to the facts as you see them and are willing to at least consider other points of view.


I also thank you for your service to our country. . .


Here is a link to the text of Kerry's speech before congress in 1971. . .


Click Here


If you get the chance to read it, I'd be sincerely interested in knowing your take on it. . .


What parts (if any) do find offensive?

Is what he said and what you you've been led to believe he said?

And while I understand you are just stating what you guess might be the motivation for the attacks on Kerry's war record, not what you feel. . . after reading the speech do you still think the vets doing this aren't really upset with or doubting Kerry's service record, but rather are purposefully distorting it just as way to get some pay-back over that speech?


See, I've heard Limbaugh, O'Reilly, Beck, Hannity, and Ingrahm take the part of the speech that's the 3rd paragraph here and play it. . except they start it at ". . . at times, they had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power. . etc." and leave off the "They told stories that. . ." begining to purposefully make it sound like Kerry was saying he witnessed all that, rather then what it actually was- Kerry relaying to congress what several other Vietnam vets testified to in a seperate hearing held weeks earlier in Detroit. .

And of course just in case someone might have missed the point, they all have stated that Kerry claimed to have personally witnessed all those atrocities. .


Just curious if that was the basic false impression you (or anyone else) had been led to believe. . . and do you think all those 100's of Vets hammering Kerry have read it for themselves??

 

[WillyJ]

Okay. . . just wanted to add that I was curious and checked out "The Swift Boat Vetrans For Truth" website to see if they had posted the actual text of the speech there. . .


They haven't, but they do mention the speech and quote from it in basically the same dishonest way Linthead and co. do, though not quite as blatently. . .

"SBVFT Site Page That Mentions Speech"


Okay, now I'm just guessing. . . but this sure is starting to look like one of Karl Rove's disgusting gutterslime disinformation campaigns he is so infamous for. . .


Maybe it's legit, but if someone has valid points and issues, why would they feel the need to lie?

 

[jennyanydots]

a real smear tactic , isn't it?

 

[faithinkarma]

Someone referred to it as political pornography. That sounds like a good description to me. And it cannot be said enough.....cheers to McCain for standing up for truth at any cost.

 

[WillyJ]

Yeah, it sure is Jenny. . .


Again, I'm just guessing. . but it sure is starting to remind me of Rove using push-polling in the South Carolina primary to spread the rumor John McCain had fathered an illegitimate black child (he and his wife had adopted a orphaned Vietnamese child who had dark skin which gave it "legitimacy" and helped Bush win there and regain momentum for the nomination. . a tactic so digusting in so many ways I don't even know where to start. . )


Or of the time Rove called reporters into his office in Texas right before an election for a state senate candidate he was managing (not Bush) to show them several "bugs" he claimed to have found and accused the Dems of using "watergate" like tactics to bug his office for months and steal the election. . . which was pretty spectacular stuff. . . until a reporter noticed some reciepts laying in a trash can by Roves desk which showed he'd bought the listening devices that morning at the local Radio Shack. . .


So when I see statements on the "Swift Boat" site like:

"John Kerry and the VVAW worked closely with America's wartime enemies, arranged multiple meetings with the North Vietnamese and Vietcong leadership, and consistently supported their positions. . ."


. . two things immediately come to mind:

1) That's one hell of accusation to make- it's treason and punishable by death. . . and just imagine what could happen when they present those facts!

Well, I'll save you the suspense- Kerry and his fellow vets went to Paris and met with Viet leaders in an attempt to secure release of the POWs. . the same leaders Kissinger met with and negotiated with on behalf of Nixon. . .


And 2) I wonder what Karl Rove has been doing the past few weeks?