Verizon striking

[threecrazykids]

You sound like an antiunion propganda video. lol. I am guessing you have watched a fair share, you are regurgitating.

I'd much rather pay my union dues and have a say in my contract thank you. You do realize that without the workers, there won't be anyone for you "managers" to manage right? You can only ride on their shoulders so long before you too will fall. Think your job is safe? Your pay rate?

If the company can afford 300 a night for expenses plus hotels and such, they can afford to pay decent wages and benefits.

This too sounds like union propoganda. Every dollar VZ has spent on this strike is a dollar that should have gone to the union to just back down to the extortion and give them the contract.

You have to look further ahead than tomorrow. I'm sure VZ feels the same way...they have to finally stand up and say "I'm done paying for you...if we give them what they want we're ALWAYS going to have to pay this and lose money every year."

Can we clear something up I've been wondering about? Why do all the union people contstantly refer to the replacement workers as "management"? I'm not a manager btw. In the definition of "manager" one would assume that they have people reporting to them.

We all keep asking why the union people keep raking on "managers coming to do their jobs". According to the info sent out...less than 20% of the people who were sent out to replace these jobs were truly managers.

 

[melmar136]

I understand your point! There is HUGE tension right now between non-union and union workers. If I get cut then I get cut...it's possible in just about every job. All companies are making cuts, and if I am chosen then so be it.

However, I really have very little sympathy for someone who in essence signed up for a glorified temp job and then complains when the contract ends.

One things for sure...as a non-union worker I assure you VZ has planned for the long haul. Not only do they have this first wave of people going out to do the jobs, but there are 15k MORE being trained and hired right now to go out in September/October. My teammates are already booked for their hotel through the end of September so unless something drastic happens, they better get some spiffy new tennis shoes.

And it doesn't matter if these people can't do the jobs at the same level as these people YET. Give it a few weeks or months and let them get in a groove. Let's be honest people...how many of YOU went to your first days/weeks on the job and performed at the same level of the people who've been with the company for years? Taking pics of everything they are doing wrong? I'm pretty sure if someone followed these people during their first 4 days they made mistakes too...and they didn't have 20 people screaming, taunting, video taping etc.

Like our managers said...if falling to number 2 or 3 or even 4 in customer service for a few weeks or months it will be worth it to bust the union and get them OUT! Someone has to be number 2, 3 and 4...if VZ is there for awhile it certainly won't kill us! LOL

I don't need to pay someone to bully a company to keep my job. I can do it on my own thankyouverymuch. And if I'm cut? Then guess what...I go on the hunt for another job.

How about these people take their union dues and put it towards their healthcare? If they didn't have union dues the amount they would pay for healthcare wouldn't sting so much.

I would hardly call it a "glorified temp job" when there are people working there with well over 30-40 years of service to the company.

What your friend has "through September or October" IS a temp job. And a lousy one at that, crossing picket lines every day.

And unfortunately for a bunch of the managers, they will essentially be out of a job come October as well. Because you see, right before the "work stoppage" they were told that in October, another big RIF is coming (that's a nice way to say you're fired in VZ speak). Tell them that, then make them work 12 hour days for you, 7 days a week, with no overtime, just some comp time that they'll never get to use cause they'll be out of a job.

 

[dakcp2001]

This too sounds like union propoganda. Every dollar VZ has spent on this strike is a dollar that should have gone to the union to just back down to the extortion and give them the contract.

You have to look further ahead than tomorrow. I'm sure VZ feels the same way...they have to finally stand up and say "I'm done paying for you...if we give them what they want we're ALWAYS going to have to pay this and lose money every year."

Can we clear something up I've been wondering about? Why do all the union people contstantly refer to the replacement workers as "management"? I'm not a manager btw. In the definition of "manager" one would assume that they have people reporting to them.

We all keep asking why the union people keep raking on "managers coming to do their jobs". According to the info sent out...less than 20% of the people who were sent out to replace these jobs were truly managers.

Would you prefer the term scab?

 

[melmar136]

This too sounds like union propoganda. Every dollar VZ has spent on this strike is a dollar that should have gone to the union to just back down to the extortion and give them the contract.

You have to look further ahead than tomorrow. I'm sure VZ feels the same way...they have to finally stand up and say "I'm done paying for you...if we give them what they want we're ALWAYS going to have to pay this and lose money every year."

Can we clear something up I've been wondering about? Why do all the union people contstantly refer to the replacement workers as "management"? I'm not a manager btw. In the definition of "manager" one would assume that they have people reporting to them.

We all keep asking why the union people keep raking on "managers coming to do their jobs". According to the info sent out...less than 20% of the people who were sent out to replace these jobs were truly managers.

Ok, to the first bolded section, that is just laughable. We've already established the billions that Verizon is making in profits, and the obscene amounts of money the CEO makes. They are hardly LOSING money!!!

As to the second bolded section, actually, we call the replacement workers (who are not managers) scabs.
Maybe people were just trying to be nice and not saying that, but that is the term.

My managers truly do not know the job of the union members in my office, and were the first to admit that. Yet they are there doing it, and better yet, were supposed to train others coming in to do it. They weren't happy about that either. We really like our managers and feel bad for them actually. They didn't want the strike any more than we did.

And the other people sent to do the jobs are what we call "specialists"...managers with no people reporting to them. That is probably why people are referring most of the replacement workers as "managers".

 

[threecrazykids]

I would hardly call it a "glorified temp job" when there are people working there with well over 30-40 years of service to the company.

What your friend has "through September or October" IS a temp job. And a lousy one at that, crossing picket lines every day.

And unfortunately for a bunch of the managers, they will essentially be out of a job come October as well. Because you see, right before the "work stoppage" they were told that in October, another big RIF is coming (that's a nice way to say you're fired in VZ speak). Tell them that, then make them work 12 hour days for you, 7 days a week, with no overtime, just some comp time that they'll never get to use cause they'll be out of a job.

Yes, there will be another RIF coming. Everyone in the company knew it. And regardless of whose "side" we're on...I don't wish anyone to be out of work. In a perfect world everyone would have great pay, no worries of losing their job etc. But this is reality. Fight it all we want, cuts are going to happen...everyone just prays it's not them.

 

[threecrazykids]

Would you prefer the term scab?

But you see...this word means NOTHING to someone who doesn't work with unions every day. None of the people that I work with who were sent out there even take offense to it...because that word isn't derrogitory to us. I know given the 1000's of times I hear it being screamed in the videos it's apparently suppose to be extremely insulting. However, sadly it doesn't hurt our feelings at all to be called that. That's why most of the people laugh when they are called that.

Let me explain it in DIS friendly terms. It's very much like a 2 year old calling you a "poopie head". Unless you have poop on your head you're NOT a poopie head.

"Scabs" as you call them really should be saved as a term for people who voluntarily cross the picket line as a "once union" employee who's crossed to the dark side of the employed.

To me, the people who were given a strike assignment without any choice in the matter aren't "scabs"...but if it makes everyone feel better to call them that, then so be it...no offense taken, I assure you.

 

[melmar136]

Yes, there will be another RIF coming. Everyone in the company knew it. And regardless of whose "side" we're on...I don't wish anyone to be out of work. In a perfect world everyone would have great pay, no worries of losing their job etc. But this is reality. Fight it all we want, cuts are going to happen...everyone just prays it's not them.

EXACTLY!!!! Which is why the union fights it so hard! The company just gets rid of managers after treating them like crap. We lost one who had 35 years with the company, was soooo knowledgable, and was a great asset, except for the fact that she had 35 years, and they figured they were paying her too much I'm sure and she had too much vacation time.

There was an entire group of "specialists" in our building who were thinking they were going to be able to be a part of the union. The company promised them all sorts of things if they didn't join. So they didn't. The next RIF came down, and guess who lost the most people? Bet they wished they chose differently.

I don't wish anyone to be out of work either, and it is very sad to see many of the managers walking on eggsells constantly, wondering who is next to go!

In this economy, cuts are going to happen, but it seems with some companies, like Verizon, there are no real reason for many of the cuts, because they are doing so well. The rich get richer and who cares what happens to the little guy.

 

[dakcp2001]

But you see...this word means NOTHING to someone who doesn't work with unions every day. None of the people that I work with who were sent out there even take offense to it...because that word isn't derrogitory to us. I know given the 1000's of times I hear it being screamed in the videos it's apparently suppose to be extremely insulting. However, sadly it doesn't hurt our feelings at all to be called that. That's why most of the people laugh when they are called that.

Let me explain it in DIS friendly terms. It's very much like a 2 year old calling you a "poopie head". Unless you have poop on your head you're NOT a poopie head.

"Scabs" as you call them really should be saved as a term for people who voluntarily cross the picket line as a "once union" employee who's crossed to the dark side of the employed.

To me, the people who were given a strike assignment without any choice in the matter aren't "scabs"...but if it makes everyone feel better to call them that, then so be it...no offense taken, I assure you.

You might want to research what traditionally happens to scabs post strike. There is always a choice in the matter, you are a grown adult and you make the choice to cross that line. You choose to support corporate greed, you have to look yourself in the mirror. You are the one that has to sleep at night knowing who you are.

 

[dakcp2001]

EXACTLY!!!! Which is why the union fights it so hard! The company just gets rid of managers after treating them like crap. We lost one who had 35 years with the company, was soooo knowledgable, and was a great asset, except for the fact that she had 35 years, and they figured they were paying her too much I'm sure and she had too much vacation time.

There was an entire group of "specialists" in our building who were thinking they were going to be able to be a part of the union. The company promised them all sorts of things if they didn't join. So they didn't. The next RIF came down, and guess who lost the most people? Bet they wished they chose differently.

I don't wish anyone to be out of work either, and it is very sad to see many of the managers walking on eggsells constantly, wondering who is next to go!

In this economy, cuts are going to happen, but it seems with some companies, like Verizon, there are no real reason for many of the cuts, because they are doing so well. The rich get richer and who cares what happens to the little guy.

We see it happen time and time again.

 

[melmar136]

But you see...this word means NOTHING to someone who doesn't work with unions every day. None of the people that I work with who were sent out there even take offense to it...because that word isn't derrogitory to us. I know given the 1000's of times I hear it being screamed in the videos it's apparently suppose to be extremely insulting. However, sadly it doesn't hurt our feelings at all to be called that. That's why most of the people laugh when they are called that.

Let me explain it in DIS friendly terms. It's very much like a 2 year old calling you a "poopie head". Unless you have poop on your head you're NOT a poopie head.

"Scabs" as you call them really should be saved as a term for people who voluntarily cross the picket line as a "once union" employee who's crossed to the dark side of the employed.

To me, the people who were given a strike assignment without any choice in the matter aren't "scabs"...but if it makes everyone feel better to call them that, then so be it...no offense taken, I assure you.

a quote by Jack London says "a scab is a traitor to his God, his mother, and his class."

I can tell you the term IS used for "union" employees who cross a picket line, and for those that are shipped in by the company, like on a temp job as pp mentioned. You know there is a strike going on, yet you are taking a job, and crossing the line. We (at my location) do not use the term for managers/specialists who have no choice in the matter.

 

[threecrazykids]

a quote by Jack London says "a scab is a traitor to his God, his mother, and his class."

I can tell you the term IS used for "union" employees who cross a picket line, and for those that are shipped in by the company, like on a temp job as pp mentioned. You know there is a strike going on, yet you are taking a job, and crossing the line. We (at my location) do not use the term for managers/specialists who have no choice in the matter.

Ok, so I'll entertain this redundant arguement...

Theoretically speaking...I decide I won't cross your line out of "respect". I get fired. IF and when the union comes to an agreement, guess who gets their job back? NOT ME! Are you gonna come pay my bills and support MY family after I supported you?

Oh heck no you're not...it's back to each man for himself and "if you want union protection like I have then go get it yourself". WE ARE ONE huh?

What is in it for the worker to NOT cross? Trust me...my co-workers aren't losing ANY sleep crossing those lines. They are getting a paycheck and doing what they have to do to feed their families.

They aren't TAKING anything from you, they are just keeping what they already had! (as the union workers like to chant) VZ is who's banking your paycheck right now, not the people doing your work.


Edited: And how exactly it is that your managers have NO choice in the matter? How the heck are they exempt from the term? They could walk out and say they aren't going to supervise the people being brought in...they if ANYONE are the ones who are supporting and TRAINING these people to take your jobs!

 

[melmar136]

Ok, so I'll entertain this redundant arguement...

Theoretically speaking...I decide I won't cross your line out of "respect". I get fired. IF and when the union comes to an agreement, guess who gets their job back? NOT ME! Are you gonna come pay my bills and support MY family after I supported you?

Oh heck no you're not...it's back to each man for himself and "if you want union protection like I have then go get it yourself". WE ARE ONE huh?

What is in it for the worker to NOT cross? Trust me...my co-workers aren't losing ANY sleep crossing those lines. They are getting a paycheck and doing what they have to do to feed their families.

They aren't TAKING anything from you, they are just keeping what they already had! (as the union workers like to chant) VZ is who's banking your paycheck right now, not the people doing your work.

As I stated in my previous post I don't say a word to my managers crossing the line. We talked in length about the strike before it even happened. They were just about as worried about it as we were. So, I know they are losing sleep over it.
They didn't want it to happen. They are the lowest level manger on the totem pole, and know that without us to 'manage", they wouldn't have a job. So, they really want us to keep our jobs, and if they're lucky they will keep theirs.

My managers know that we when go back to work, everthing will be fine. They respect what we have to do, and we understand that they're just trying to keep their jobs.
But, there are others who I know things aren't going to be so pleasant for once we are back. They sort of act like part of your post...I'm not losing any sleep" over the fact you're out of work, and as a matter of fact, while I'm sitting in my car waiting to cross the line, I'm going to take pictures and point and laugh at you, like this is all a big joke.

In my office, we like our managers, and I know my managers care about us, and what happens to us.

 

[undertheradar]

Wow, I thought a scab was something you peeled off after a cut heals.

Did anyone pay attention to the USPS wanting Congress to allow them to end cba to eliminate 120,000 jobs and reduce benefits and retirement? They have very little competition and they are wanting to reduce costs. Can't blame this on a greedy CEO.

I get the pro union stuff, but I think you should give up the koolaid and start paying attention to what is happening in the real world. Your unions are not fighting for the survival of the middle class, nor are they striking to save the American way of life. I don't care that the CEO makes $55,000 per day or that Verizon had profits of $22.9 billion dollars over the past 4 years. We are living in the here and now and the free medical benefits, free pensions, and total job security are long gone. You are negotiating a 3 year contract for an obsolete product that is provided to a shrinking customer base. As a union you are expecting the rest of the corporation to subsidize your higher cost benefits, even though your division is taking the most money away from profits. I find it completely disgusting that your unions are picketing at non landline offices and locations. You are attempting to bully the corporation by causing fear in potential customers who would risk crossing union picket lines to make a purchase. Which part of this doesn't appear to be classless to you union members. Other people depend upon jobs at those stores to provide for families and loved ones, yet the unions think it is okay to interfere with locations that have zero union employees. These are classless acts.

 

[melmar136]

Wow, I thought a scab was something you peeled off after a cut heals.

Did anyone pay attention to the USPS wanting Congress to allow them to end cba to eliminate 120,000 jobs and reduce benefits and retirement? They have very little competition and they are wanting to reduce costs. Can't blame this on a greedy CEO.

I get the pro union stuff, but I think you should give up the koolaid and start paying attention to what is happening in the real world. Your unions are not fighting for the survival of the middle class, nor are they striking to save the American way of life. I don't care that the CEO makes $55,000 per day or that Verizon had profits of $22.9 billion dollars over the past 4 years. We are living in the here and now and the free medical benefits, free pensions, and total job security are long gone. You are negotiating a 3 year contract for an obsolete product that is provided to a shrinking customer base. As a union you are expecting the rest of the corporation to subsidize your higher cost benefits, even though your division is taking the most money away from profits. I find it completely disgusting that your unions are picketing at non landline offices and locations. You are attempting to bully the corporation by causing fear in potential customers who would risk crossing union picket lines to make a purchase. Which part of this doesn't appear to be classless to you union members. Other people depend upon jobs at those stores to provide for families and loved ones, yet the unions think it is okay to interfere with locations that have zero union employees. These are classless acts.

I have been at a Wireless location for part of every day this week, and guess what? We have been holding the doors open for customers, chatting with them...today, the picket captain brought over chairs for 2 older women who wanted to stay outside while one of their husbands went into the store. Someone else took the older woman's dog for a walk while she sat, chatting with us. That IS disgusting, isn't it?
We are not there to prevent anyone from entering the store. We do not say anything rude AT ALL to any of the customers. We do not block the entrance.

The reason that any of the picketing even started at the Wireless stores was as informational leafletting. Verizon sure gets their spin out there, so this is a chance to let the public know what is really going on. And we have many people who stop, ask questions, want to know what the strike is about, etc. They are supportive, say good luck, and then many of them enter the store. We don't yell at them, tell them not to go in, or anything like that.
The ONLY rude behavior I have seen at this location was from a few people driving by to get to other parts of the strip mall, yelling rude things to US.

 

[GJM]

When you've got customer service /order entry reps with no degree pulling down anywhere between $30-$40

I know 2 customer service reps one with a degree and one without. I will check with them. Maybe when they are told they have mandatory overtime.

 

[twinmom108]

I have no preferences between union & non-union. Throughout this thread I've been reading about perceptions of unfairness & there is an underlying sense of entitlement that permeates through the thread.

This hasn't even been mentioned on this thread, but thousands of non union Verizon employees across this country all the way up through management are going to be working grueling schedules while this strike is on.

These mandatory schedules are 12 hours a day 6 days a week. Everyone including management who had fall vacations scheduled were required to cancel them. No telling how long this will go on for, but I know it can't be physically or mentally healthy especially for those middle aged or older workers. They are doing this because of those who are on strike & they are not getting relief replacements. I don't like it that Verizon is making anyone do this schedule. I think it's wrong. I think it will be detrimental in the long run. Do I think it's fair? Certainly Not. But life is not fair. Fairness for everyone does not exist as what's fair for you may not be what's fair for me. Sometimes life does suck & you just have to suck it up.

My DH (and he is a dear one & a man of integrity) - is a software systems analyst, a non union/non management Verizon employee. Married for 20 years, hoping for another 20+ & hoping that this strike doesn't cut that short.

It's heart wrenching that our 18 y/o son who is in Marines Boot Camp will graduate in 6 weeks, become a Man - a Marine & his dad cannot be there to see his graduation, because of this strike.

DH's mom is having hip replacement surgery this month. DH is her only child & he's feeling additional stress that he cannot help her as he normally would.

We also have another 18 Yo & 17 Yo with college tuition to support, not to mention dealing w/ parents who have dementia issues & supporting them too. So exiting this job after all these years is not even an option for DH.

Now mind you this is only one (Colorado) non union families' experience with how we're being effected by this strike. I'm sure there are hundreds of thousand other familes going through similar & worse situations during this unfortunate time. Thanks for letting me share a different angle of this crazy equation.

 

[Judique]

I have no preferences between union & non-union. Throughout this thread I've been reading about perceptions of unfairness & there is an underlying sense of entitlement that permeates through the thread.

This hasn't even been mentioned on this thread, but thousands of non union Verizon employees across this country all the way up through management are going to be working grueling schedules while this strike is on.

These mandatory schedules are 12 hours a day 6 days a week. Everyone including management who had fall vacations scheduled were required to cancel them. No telling how long this will go on for, but I know it can't be physically or mentally healthy especially for those middle aged or older workers. They are doing this because of those who are on strike & they are not getting relief replacements. I don't like it that Verizon is making anyone do this schedule. I think it's wrong. I think it will be detrimental in the long run. Do I think it's fair? Certainly Not. But life is not fair. Fairness for everyone does not exist as what's fair for you may not be what's fair for me. Sometimes life does suck & you just have to suck it up.

My DH (and he is a dear one & a man of integrity) - is a software systems analyst, a non union/non management Verizon employee. Married for 20 years, hoping for another 20+ & hoping that this strike doesn't cut that short.

It's heart wrenching that our 18 y/o son who is in Marines Boot Camp will graduate in 6 weeks, become a Man - a Marine & his dad cannot be there to see his graduation, because of this strike.

DH's mom is having hip replacement surgery this month. DH is her only child & he's feeling additional stress that he cannot help her as he normally would.

We also have another 18 Yo & 17 Yo with college tuition to support, not to mention dealing w/ parents who have dementia issues & supporting them too. So exiting this job after all these years is not even an option for DH.

Now mind you this is only one (Colorado) non union families' experience with how we're being effected by this strike. I'm sure there are hundreds of thousand other familes going through similar & worse situations during this unfortunate time. Thanks for letting me share a different angle of this crazy equation.

All of the above would indicate to me the need for your husband to have some job protection - such as provided by a worker's union. your husband is getting a taste of how life without unions can really be. Your husband has lived and worked with union protections by default - without paying union dues. If the union is broken.....those 12 hour, 6 day weeks without OT could be your new normal way of life..........

And getting RIF'ed after 20 years is indeed a possibility for him. It way not be an option for your family, but for Verizon - it is their option.
He doesn't have the bumping option as his years do not equate to seniority as in a union shop.

RIF's are funny things. I am watching now as many people I personally know are being rif'ed.

 

[herdtoDisney]

Did anyone pay attention to the USPS wanting Congress to allow them to end cba to eliminate 120,000 jobs and reduce benefits and retirement? They have very little competition and they are wanting to reduce costs. Can't blame this on a greedy CEO.

.

Um, no. This is NOT what the USPS is asking Congress for. The USPS is required by law to pre-fund retiree health benefits to the extreme-it's overpaid by BILLIONS right now, and no other private business or govt. agency is under this mandate to this extent The USPS is asking for relief from this mandate. It is not trying to reduce benefits or retirement, and has already eliminated those 120,000 jobs in the last few years-through attrition. Why did you insert misinformation about the USPS into this Verizon thread?

 

[Judique]

Um, no. This is NOT what the USPS is asking Congress for. The USPS is required by law to pre-fund retiree health benefits to the extreme-it's overpaid by BILLIONS right now, and no other private business or govt. agency is under this mandate to this extent The USPS is asking for relief from this mandate. It is not trying to reduce benefits or retirement, and has already eliminated those 120,000 jobs in the last few years-through attrition. Why did you insert misinformation about the USPS into this Verizon thread?

Thank you! I was about to post on this.

Spreading misinformation is a common propaganda tactic - because so many people will take it at face value and not do research, because it is not really their issue at the moment.

Remember folks - behind that internet posting alias could be anybody unless you know them personally in a real world setting.

We've seen quite a bit of exaggeration in this thread.

The 'big guy' who is making money off your labor does not have your back at all cost. Your greatest value is while you are a producer at minimum expense. Your long term welfare means nothing to big business - they are looking at the bottom line, not whether you are taking home a living wage (dump that 'fair' - it's not relevant).

Life goes in cycles - look at history - the future is in the past.

 

[luvestodizz]

There is a post on the Community Board asking about health care benefits. I was reading it and quite a few responses said that the employer paid a majority of the health care costs. Some stated they paid 1 percent of salary or some other reasonable amount. As Verizon employees we do have a deductible and coinsurance, so it is not free. The proposals they are making now dramatically increase the employee contribution. Add that to the other concessions, and a way of life will be drastically changed. Should every average worker's wages and benefits be decreased now, because that's how it is nowadays. What a great mentality.
There are still plenty of people that use landlines and Fios. I don't see the landline phone fading away.So, yes techs will still be needed. Imagine if the reports of cell phones causing brain tumors are true. I'm sure everyone would want good old Ma Bell then.
Remember the good jobs we are fighting for today, is your son's or daughter's job tomorrow. Minimum wage and benefits do not provide a solid middle class life.