Verizon striking

[threecrazykids]

As I stated in my previous post I don't say a word to my managers crossing the line. We talked in length about the strike before it even happened. They were just about as worried about it as we were. So, I know they are losing sleep over it.
They didn't want it to happen. They are the lowest level manger on the totem pole, and know that without us to 'manage", they wouldn't have a job. So, they really want us to keep our jobs, and if they're lucky they will keep theirs.

My managers know that we when go back to work, everthing will be fine. They respect what we have to do, and we understand that they're just trying to keep their jobs.
But, there are others who I know things aren't going to be so pleasant for once we are back. They sort of act like part of your post...I'm not losing any sleep" over the fact you're out of work, and as a matter of fact, while I'm sitting in my car waiting to cross the line, I'm going to take pictures and point and laugh at you, like this is all a big joke.

In my office, we like our managers, and I know my managers care about us, and what happens to us.

Really? They care about you? If they don't stand behind you and fight for your jobs, THEY won't have a job!!! I still don't get this mentality. How can you POSSIBLY be ok with your managers not standing up for you...the people who know you PERSONALLY, who interact with you every single day? THESE are the people who should be fighting with you! This person who didn't have to leave their home...goes to work BAU, walking across your picket lines...marching right across them to feed their family every day...how is that supporting you? They are supporting VZ and covering their own during this strike just like everyone else.

I can't fathom finding sympathy and compassion for your managers...yet someone who ALSO had no choice in the matter, was ripped from their family, flown across the country to do a job they've NEVER DONE for weeks on end, walk across the harassing picket lines, don't know you from Adam but THEY are the bad guy here?

Please.

Your managers have that same choice every single day to cross that line and leave you behind while they train someone to do YOUR JOB. If they really cared they'd be out there on the lines WITH you...defending your job, and theirs.

I tell you what, if it were me...if I watched my manager go into that building across my picket line I wouldn't have anymore sympathy for him/her anymore than I had for the replacement workers. Nice friend - yeah, they have your best interest at heart.

If you think that the people who are out there covering these jobs WANT to be there, want to "take your job" etc. you are HIGHLY mistaken. What they want is to come back to their families, go back to their job, and for you to do what you do best. They don't have anymore choice in the matter than your managers you think feel bad for you.

 

[sam_gordon]

Again, just because other companies have done this to their workers it doesn't make it right. So, everyone should just accept whatever a company is willing to dish out?

As long as it is not illegal, yes. Don't like it? Find another job. Why won't you answer my questions...
A) Why is it wrong to have workers pay toward their health care?
B) Why is it wrong to have raises based on merit?
C) Why is it wrong to freeze a pension?
Do you have any answer OTHER than "because we've always had it"?

I was talking to a tech today, who tests lines from the inside, and he was saying that a bunch of the non-union workers doing the same job in another state were fired, as their jobs were sent to the Philippines. Another woman said that she is doing work from Florida, Texas, and California because those people, although union, did not have a clause in their contract about the transferring of work.

THIS is a big part of why we are striking.

So a company should be forced to keep an employee/office/division REGARDLESS of whether that entity brings in/saves money for the company?

I have been at a Wireless location for part of every day this week, and guess what? We have been holding the doors open for customers, chatting with them...today, the picket captain brought over chairs for 2 older women who wanted to stay outside while one of their husbands went into the store. Someone else took the older woman's dog for a walk while she sat, chatting with us. That IS disgusting, isn't it?
We are not there to prevent anyone from entering the store. We do not say anything rude AT ALL to any of the customers. We do not block the entrance.

That's very nice that you're doing those things. BUT, what is your true hope by being at the wireless store? You want people to NOT go into the store, right? You'd rather they spend their money elsewhere (otherwise they're "supporting" Verizon).

The reason that any of the picketing even started at the Wireless stores was as informational leafletting. Verizon sure gets their spin out there, so this is a chance to let the public know what is really going on. And we have many people who stop, ask questions, want to know what the strike is about, etc. They are supportive, say good luck, and then many of them enter the store.

Supportive? "Good luck"? Then enter the store? I'm thinking they're being polite.

All of the above would indicate to me the need for your husband to have some job protection - such as provided by a worker's union. your husband is getting a taste of how life without unions can really be. Your husband has lived and worked with union protections by default - without paying union dues. If the union is broken.....those 12 hour, 6 day weeks without OT could be your new normal way of life..........

Unions aren't the only "job protection" out there. Be good at your job. Let's say there is a union employee, who, although they show up on time, simply doesn't perform up to the standards of other employees. Do THEY have "job protection"?

 

[LoveBWVVBR]

I understand your point! There is HUGE tension right now between non-union and union workers. If I get cut then I get cut...it's possible in just about every job. All companies are making cuts, and if I am chosen then so be it.

However, I really have very little sympathy for someone who in essence signed up for a glorified temp job and then complains when the contract ends.

One things for sure...as a non-union worker I assure you VZ has planned for the long haul. Not only do they have this first wave of people going out to do the jobs, but there are 15k MORE being trained and hired right now to go out in September/October. My teammates are already booked for their hotel through the end of September so unless something drastic happens, they better get some spiffy new tennis shoes.

And it doesn't matter if these people can't do the jobs at the same level as these people YET. Give it a few weeks or months and let them get in a groove. Let's be honest people...how many of YOU went to your first days/weeks on the job and performed at the same level of the people who've been with the company for years? Taking pics of everything they are doing wrong? I'm pretty sure if someone followed these people during their first 4 days they made mistakes too...and they didn't have 20 people screaming, taunting, video taping etc.

Like our managers said...if falling to number 2 or 3 or even 4 in customer service for a few weeks or months it will be worth it to bust the union and get them OUT! Someone has to be number 2, 3 and 4...if VZ is there for awhile it certainly won't kill us! LOL

I don't need to pay someone to bully a company to keep my job. I can do it on my own thankyouverymuch. And if I'm cut? Then guess what...I go on the hunt for another job.

How about these people take their union dues and put it towards their healthcare? If they didn't have union dues the amount they would pay for healthcare wouldn't sting so much.

AWESOME post!

 

[threecrazykids]

As long as it is not illegal, yes. Don't like it? Find another job. Why won't you answer my questions...
A) Why is it wrong to have workers pay toward their health care?
B) Why is it wrong to have raises based on merit?
C) Why is it wrong to freeze a pension?
Do you have any answer OTHER than "because we've always had it"?

So a company should be forced to keep an employee/office/division REGARDLESS of whether that entity brings in/saves money for the company?

That's very nice that you're doing those things. BUT, what is your true hope by being at the wireless store? You want people to NOT go into the store, right? You'd rather they spend their money elsewhere (otherwise they're "supporting" Verizon).

Supportive? "Good luck"? Then enter the store? I'm thinking they're being polite.

Unions aren't the only "job protection" out there. Be good at your job. Let's say there is a union employee, who, although they show up on time, simply doesn't perform up to the standards of other employees. Do THEY have "job protection"?

I'm not even union and I can answer for A, B, and C above..."because the company has made billions, therefore they can afford to, so they should". It's been their rally cry from the beginning..."if Ivan Seidenburg makes 55k a day then they can afford to let me keep what I have".

Entitled much?

And tying my raises to my job performance? Now that's just crazy talk! What is wrong with all of you?!

 

[Judique]

Sam - from managing my people, I've learned that everybody thinks they are good at their job. Til they get rif'ed.....

 

[melmar136]

Really? They care about you? If they don't stand behind you and fight for your jobs, THEY won't have a job!!! I still don't get this mentality. How can you POSSIBLY be ok with your managers not standing up for you...the people who know you PERSONALLY, who interact with you every single day? THESE are the people who should be fighting with you! This person who didn't have to leave their home...goes to work BAU, walking across your picket lines...marching right across them to feed their family every day...how is that supporting you? They are supporting VZ and covering their own during this strike just like everyone else.

I can't fathom finding sympathy and compassion for your managers...yet someone who ALSO had no choice in the matter, was ripped from their family, flown across the country to do a job they've NEVER DONE for weeks on end, walk across the harassing picket lines, don't know you from Adam but THEY are the bad guy here?

Please.

Your managers have that same choice every single day to cross that line and leave you behind while they train someone to do YOUR JOB. If they really cared they'd be out there on the lines WITH you...defending your job, and theirs.

I tell you what, if it were me...if I watched my manager go into that building across my picket line I wouldn't have anymore sympathy for him/her anymore than I had for the replacement workers. Nice friend - yeah, they have your best interest at heart.

If you think that the people who are out there covering these jobs WANT to be there, want to "take your job" etc. you are HIGHLY mistaken. What they want is to come back to their families, go back to their job, and for you to do what you do best. They don't have anymore choice in the matter than your managers you think feel bad for you.

It sounds as if you are one of those Verizon managers or specialists who work in an office where the employees really hate their bosses. Maybe you're bitter because Verizon has already taken everything from you that they are trying to take from the union members. And you know that when we come back to work, they will take even more from you. Because they CAN.
That's because you have no protection.

That's why my managers cross the line every day. Like you said in a pp, what would be in it for them if they stayed with us, on the other side? They'd be fired right away, once we all go back to work.

I KNOW they don't want to be in there training other managers to do what they don't even know how to do.
I KNOW they don't want to be there, working 12 hour days, getting to take no vacation time, not even making any overtime, then having a good chance of getting Rif'd when the strike is over.

Nice way Verizon treats it's managers, huh? I see why you're bitter.

 

[melmar136]

As long as it is not illegal, yes. Don't like it? Find another job. Why won't you answer my questions...
A) Why is it wrong to have workers pay toward their health care?
B) Why is it wrong to have raises based on merit?
C) Why is it wrong to freeze a pension?
Do you have any answer OTHER than "because we've always had it"?

So as long as the company isn't doing anything illegal to you it's ok? That mentality is what is going to kill the middle class.

Personally, I think it is ok to have workers pay towards their health care. I also think that a raise based on merit is fine, but I am a good worker and know I would get one. Oh, unless perhaps my boss just didn't like me, or the less he gave out for rasises meant that he got a better bonus, or any number of things that happen to people who deserve a raise but don't get one. I do think it is wrong to freeze a pension, especially at a highly profitable company.
Unions aren't the only "job protection" out there. Be good at your job. Let's say there is a union employee, who, although they show up on time, simply doesn't perform up to the standards of other employees. Do THEY have "job protection"?

If you have read in some of my pp, we have managers who were VERY good at their job, but lost it anyways. Usually when they have a lot of years with the company and make "too much" and have too much vacation time. Being good at your job doesn't mean you get to keep it

 

[threecrazykids]

It sounds as if you are one of those Verizon managers or specialists who work in an office where the employees really hate their bosses. Maybe you're bitter because Verizon has already taken everything from you that they are trying to take from the union members. And you know that when we come back to work, they will take even more from you. Because they CAN.
That's because you have no protection.

That's why my managers cross the line every day. Like you said in a pp, what would be in it for them if they stayed with us, on the other side? They'd be fired right away, once we all go back to work.

I KNOW they don't want to be in there training other managers to do what they don't even know how to do.
I KNOW they don't want to be there, working 12 hour days, getting to take no vacation time, not even making any overtime, then having a good chance of getting Rif'd when the strike is over.

Nice way Verizon treats it's managers, huh? I see why you're bitter.

I'm not bitter, I'm trying to understand your point of view.

Well why no screaming "scab" at them then? If you know they don't want to be in there then why are they? We all have a choice right? Where's the solidarity?

Let's do a quick compare and then you can show me where the difference is because apparently I am blind.

Your manager: Has to cross the picket line because they "have no choice" or they could possibly be fired ONCE THE CONTRACT IS SIGNED.
Replacement worker: Has to cross the picket line because they "have no choice" or they will be fired IMMEDIATELY.
**(And I'm not talking about contracted workers...I'm talking about true blood VZ regular employees going out to do these jobs).

Your manager: Has nothing to gain by standing with you on the picket line.
Replacement worker: Has nothing to gain by standing with you on the picket line.

Your manager: Working 12 hour days, getting to take no vacation time, etc. and having a good chance of being Rif'd once the contract is signed.
Replacement worker: Working 12 hour days, getting to take no vacation time, etc. and having a good chance of being Rif'd once the contract is signed.

Your manager:Training other managers to do what they don't even know how to do.
Replacement worker:Temporarily doing a job they don't want to do with training from your managers.

The only difference I'm seeing between them is:

Your manager knows you, cares about you, has to work with you every day when this is all over. Replacement workers don't know you, have no emotional ties to you, and will NOT have to face you once this ugly strike has ended.

And the reason you know that your manager doesn't want to be there is because they told you that...and they are your friend, right?

Actions speak louder than words. They have a choice as well...and don't kid yourself otherwise.

 

[ccgirl]

As long as it is not illegal, yes. Don't like it? Find another job. Why won't you answer my questions...
A) Why is it wrong to have workers pay toward their health care?
B) Why is it wrong to have raises based on merit?
C) Why is it wrong to freeze a pension?
Do you have any answer OTHER than "because we've always had it"?

So a company should be forced to keep an employee/office/division REGARDLESS of whether that entity brings in/saves money for the company?

That's very nice that you're doing those things. BUT, what is your true hope by being at the wireless store? You want people to NOT go into the store, right? You'd rather they spend their money elsewhere (otherwise they're "supporting" Verizon).

Supportive? "Good luck"? Then enter the store? I'm thinking they're being polite.

Unions aren't the only "job protection" out there. Be good at your job. Let's say there is a union employee, who, although they show up on time, simply doesn't perform up to the standards of other employees. Do THEY have "job protection"?

Great post. This is what I am trying to figure out as well. With skyrocketing healthcare costs; why shouldn't the employee pay something into it? Why should the employer have to keep bearing the brunt of these increases? It doesn't matter how much the company is making. I really don't get that mentality. Unions were formed to provide fair treatment. For example, paying a fair wage (we now have minimum wage standards that help with that), not forcing long hours etc. Not so people could get free healthcare and a pension. And to the union picketers calling those that cross the line "scabs". I think that is awful. We teach out children not to call others names; what kind of example are we setting. And, don't tell me the example to stand up for yourself and fight for what you deserve. You can do that all without name calling. A poster above gave a great example of how this is affecting the non-unionized employees. I'm willing to bet the unionized employees don't care. They would tell you to join a union. They care about themselves, not others.

 

[Judique]

I'm not bitter, I'm trying to understand your point of view.

Well why no screaming "scab" at them then? If you know they don't want to be in there then why are they? We all have a choice right? Where's the solidarity? (edited out body of the post)

Actions speak louder than words. They have a choice as well...and don't kid yourself otherwise.

Everybody has a choice - even you. It appears that you think you will beat the odds by being a company man. you appear to have made your choice.

It may be the wrong one.

When you lose perspective after making a decision, other wrong decisions can follow.
So don't kid yourself. A person needs to stay focused, but also needs to look at the big picture, and where they fit into it.

Of course you may be the person who beats the odds.

 

[threecrazykids]

Everybody has a choice - even you. It appears that you think you will beat the odds by being a company man. you appear to have made your choice.

It may be the wrong one.

When you lose perspective after making a decision, other wrong decisions can follow.
So don't kid yourself. A person needs to stay focused, but also needs to look at the big picture, and where they fit into it.

Of course you may be the person who beats the odds.

I couldn't join a union even if I wanted to...our jobs aren't bargaining unit jobs.

When you say everyone has a choice, what do you mean? That I should stop supporting my family in the HOPES that VZ gives the union people THIER job back? I should just walk out of my job and get nothing but bankrupt out of it?

Uh...that's a no brainer.

 

[LuluLovesDisney]

If companies have a right to make unlimited money and no obligations to their employees (besides a shrinking pay check), what is to stop us from becoming like certain foreign countries that treat their workers horribly? Company after company makes change after change that negatively impacts the working class. People attack the public sector unions and private sector unions in a race to the bottom. Companies care about the bottom line and want someone to do the job for the cheapest, not the best. What is the benefit for companies to be making trillions while the overall quality of life for the working class is worse?

 

[sam_gordon]

So as long as the company isn't doing anything illegal to you it's ok? That mentality is what is going to kill the middle class.

If the company is not treating me illegally, what right do I have to force them to change their policy/behavior? Yes, I can complain, but I can't FORCE them to do anything. If I don't like the way they're treating me, I can quit.

Personally, I think it is ok to have workers pay towards their health care. I also think that a raise based on merit is fine, but I am a good worker and know I would get one. Oh, unless perhaps my boss just didn't like me, or the less he gave out for rasises meant that he got a better bonus, or any number of things that happen to people who deserve a raise but don't get one. I do think it is wrong to freeze a pension, especially at a highly profitable company. If you have read in some of my pp, we have managers who were VERY good at their job, but lost it anyways. Usually when they have a lot of years with the company and make "too much" and have too much vacation time. Being good at your job doesn't mean you get to keep it

Thank you for answering my questions. As far as pensions... is VZ offering a 401K match or any kind of retirement help? Just curious.

 

[sam_gordon]

If companies have a right to make unlimited money and no obligations to their employees (besides a shrinking pay check), what is to stop us from becoming like certain foreign countries that treat their workers horribly? Company after company makes change after change that negatively impacts the working class. People attack the public sector unions and private sector unions in a race to the bottom. Companies care about the bottom line and want someone to do the job for the cheapest, not the best. What is the benefit for companies to be making trillions while the overall quality of life for the working class is worse?

Here's the difference... if Company 'A' treats their workers horribly, no one will work for them. Again, BENEFITS offered to employees are simply incentives to attract the better employees. They are not guaranteed. IIRC, no company is forced (by law) to offer ANY kind of paid time off (vacation, sick time, holiday). But would anyone apply for a job that forces them to work 40 hours a week, 52 weeks a year? Probably not. That's why companies offer PTO.

 

[ccgirl]

If companies have a right to make unlimited money and no obligations to their employees (besides a shrinking pay check), what is to stop us from becoming like certain foreign countries that treat their workers horribly? Company after company makes change after change that negatively impacts the working class. People attack the public sector unions and private sector unions in a race to the bottom. Companies care about the bottom line and want someone to do the job for the cheapest, not the best. What is the benefit for companies to be making trillions while the overall quality of life for the working class is worse?

Since when is making an employee pay for a portion of their healthcare treating workers horribly? They are not cutting their pay. They want to tie raises to performance. Not a bad idea at all. They are still offering them a 401K, just not a pension. Again, pensions are going away due to the economy.

 

[undertheradar]

Um, no. This is NOT what the USPS is asking Congress for. The USPS is required by law to pre-fund retiree health benefits to the extreme-it's overpaid by BILLIONS right now, and no other private business or govt. agency is under this mandate to this extent The USPS is asking for relief from this mandate. It is not trying to reduce benefits or retirement, and has already eliminated those 120,000 jobs in the last few years-through attrition. Why did you insert misinformation about the USPS into this Verizon thread?

Well, since this is currently taking place and the USPS is seeking authorization to further eliminate jobs and benefits, it is completely relevant. Check out CNN for the story.

 

[undertheradar]

All of the above would indicate to me the need for your husband to have some job protection - such as provided by a worker's union. your husband is getting a taste of how life without unions can really be. Your husband has lived and worked with union protections by default - without paying union dues. If the union is broken.....those 12 hour, 6 day weeks without OT could be your new normal way of life..........

And getting RIF'ed after 20 years is indeed a possibility for him. It way not be an option for your family, but for Verizon - it is their option.
He doesn't have the bumping option as his years do not equate to seniority as in a union shop.

RIF's are funny things. I am watching now as many people I personally know are being rif'ed.

RIF's are funny?

 

[threecrazykids]

RIF's are funny?

Exactly...the people walking the picket line who were in essence "RIF'd" don't appear to be laughing. Not quite sure what is so funny about it.

 

[undertheradar]

Thank you! I was about to post on this.

Spreading misinformation is a common propaganda tactic - because so many people will take it at face value and not do research, because it is not really their issue at the moment.

Remember folks - behind that internet posting alias could be anybody unless you know them personally in a real world setting.

We've seen quite a bit of exaggeration in this thread.

The 'big guy' who is making money off your labor does not have your back at all cost. Your greatest value is while you are a producer at minimum expense. Your long term welfare means nothing to big business - they are looking at the bottom line, not whether you are taking home a living wage (dump that 'fair' - it's not relevant).

Life goes in cycles - look at history - the future is in the past.

Again, put down the koolaid and slowly walk away. Not employed by Verizon, just a customer who has multiple cell lines and the unfortunate luck to have FIOS. Talk about propaganda: the CEO makes $55,000 per day, Verizon made $22.9 BILLION dollars in 4 years. Every clip of the unions gathering and every interview spews the same. The reality is that your landline division is losing customers daily and your division provides an obsolete product, plain and simple. Add to it that your union labor costs are higher than any of the other divisions and your fully funded benefits are not equal to what the rest of the employees receive and you want the rest of the non-union employees to subsidize your compensation.

 

[undertheradar]

There is a post on the Community Board asking about health care benefits. I was reading it and quite a few responses said that the employer paid a majority of the health care costs. Some stated they paid 1 percent of salary or some other reasonable amount. As Verizon employees we do have a deductible and coinsurance, so it is not free. The proposals they are making now dramatically increase the employee contribution. Add that to the other concessions, and a way of life will be drastically changed. Should every average worker's wages and benefits be decreased now, because that's how it is nowadays. What a great mentality.
There are still plenty of people that use landlines and Fios. I don't see the landline phone fading away.So, yes techs will still be needed. Imagine if the reports of cell phones causing brain tumors are true. I'm sure everyone would want good old Ma Bell then.
Remember the good jobs we are fighting for today, is your son's or daughter's job tomorrow. Minimum wage and benefits do not provide a solid middle class life.

The difference appears to be that possibly you are confusing deductible/co-pay as what others are paying towards medical? These are in addition to the premiums that are paid each pay period.

Please, you are fighting for your jobs, period.