Verizon striking

[undertheradar]

If we were school children the veiled threat about crossing picket lines would be considered bullying. As grownups we are being warned of the risks of crosiing them? Why isn't this an attempt at bullying?

 

[sam_gordon]

I can only tell you my personal experience... I am not involved in this strike personally. (of course I would not have my children around anyone acting in the ways you describe...)

I don't believe in violence and obviously have not seen these reports about this strike.

Historically anyone crossing a picket line is taking a risk.

It is surprising that this strike came to this intensity so quickly... but the current Union busting climate is surely escalating the situation!

Personally I believe that the non-union verizon workers should be trying to join with the Union... not crossing lines...

ETA I also wanted to add that also throughout history companies or others against Unions have paid people to join picket lines and cause problems/incite violence

The section I bolded, while I know is true, shouldn't be. Just like we try to keep disagreements on the DIS civil, why should anyone crossing a picket line (whether to work or engage in business) "take a risk"? THAT'S extreme.

Personally I believe that the non-union verizon workers should be making decisions based on what THEY believe, NOT just automatically following a union. As someone mentioned earlier, I would cross a picket line if it's the difference between my kids eating, having a house over their heads, etc and not.

Also as a PP asked... is the union trying to compromise at ALL? Or simply saying "our way or the highway"? Public opinion is swaying AGAINST unions. I think IBEW and others need to tread lightly.

 

[akhenaten]

If we were school children the veiled threat about crossing picket lines would be considered bullying. As grownups we are being warned of the risks of crosiing them? Why isn't this an attempt at bullying?

I guess that at a sporting event yelling at a pitcher or umpire that they stink is bullying too.... I don't do that either... but some do...

 

[LoveBWVVBR]

Google Verizon Strike on youtube...the guy made the national news this morning. The CWA/IBEW facebook page (the one for the Verizon strike) is FLOODED with these videos of people acting like this. And everyone on this page is cheering them on!

I have approx 15 co-workers who are out at MULTIPLE locations, different states and the behavior is the same at all of them! Throwing rocks at cars,spitting on them when they walk in, blowhorns directly in people's ears. One of the people sent to Boston got their jaw broke yesterday trying to get into the building! I sat at my desk and just cried. This isn't "citing extremes"...the reports coming back to our location and others (non-union) who I personally speak with all over the country who have co-workers out there are reporting back with the same stories.

I'm not sure if this is simply an overall extreme strike, that could be. But what I do know is my co-workers do NOT deserve to be treated this way.

Lovely. Well, maybe the union knows that this will be a nasty strike and that it may not end well for them...maybe that's why it's nastier this time around. Honestly, the worst that I dealt with was being sworn at, but I didn't get assigned to high-visibility work locations either. One of my co-workers got assigned to a higher-visibility work location and she got mooned by a striker That's obviously nothing like having a striker put their CHILD in front of a line truck, though. WTH?! That's extreme even for this bunch IMHO. I can't believe that I'm actually saying this, but I don't think that that's the norm even for Verizon strikers. Cursing, rock throwing, mooning, jumping out in front of cars...I believe those are still common. Putting a child in harm's way...I can't see that as a common tactic right now.

 

[akhenaten]

The section I bolded, while I know is true, shouldn't be. Just like we try to keep disagreements on the DIS civil, why should anyone crossing a picket line (whether to work or engage in business) "take a risk"? THAT'S extreme.

Personally I believe that the non-union verizon workers should be making decisions based on what THEY believe, NOT just automatically following a union. As someone mentioned earlier, I would cross a picket line if it's the difference between my kids eating, having a house over their heads, etc and not.

Also as a PP asked... is the union trying to compromise at ALL? Or simply saying "our way or the highway"? Public opinion is swaying AGAINST unions. I think IBEW and others need to tread lightly.

I agree... for the most part.
I believe there is strength (negotiating strength) in numbers and if the Union is stronger there would be more benefits for everyone...

 

[LoveBWVVBR]

Well, my previous comments only applied to the classy strikers , not the trash depicted here : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uix0-BlGnjg

Yikes

I wonder who pays for the 3-4 police standing around?

I was under the impression that the company paid for the police details that protected us from the strikers. I could be wrong, though.

 

[threecrazykids]

I was under the impression that the company paid for the police details that protected us from the strikers. I could be wrong, though.

Yes, VZ is paying for police at several locations. They have now filed injunctions in several states against picketers for illegal activity. It's taken only 3 days and they have gathered video, pictures, etc. and are prosecuting everyone they can to the fullest. One of my co-workers yesterday spent 6 hours talking to VZ lawyers because the picketers chased her down in her car, followed her back to her hotel and threatened her and her family.

But yes VZ is paying additional security and also police to help control he picketers.

 

[sherry7]

I'm still cracking up about how "skilled" the majority of these union jobs at Verizon are. Would I want to be a lineman w/o training? No, but then again, the training involved is not rocket science and doesn't take all that long. Heck, I did inside wiring (inside the CO) for my last strike duty assignment and I had no prior training. Amazing Some of my group was assigned to work install and repair duty, and they all returned alive and in one piece. Sorry, but if the actual SKILLED jobs of air traffic controllers could be replaced, the not-so-skilled "skilled" union jobs at Verizon could be backfilled in short order with little to no training necessary for most jobs.

Spoken like a true paper pushing manager, with absolutely NO CLUE as to what most of the employees at Verizon actually do on a daily basis. I'm not just talking about repair/installations and the customer service representatives that handle calls, but the behind the scene work that maintains the vRepair computer system, the e911 addressing systems, the Cofee system that the customer service reps use, and the multitude of other various computer systems that the company uses on a continuous basis. If the "replacement workers" are so competent at doing these jobs without much training, then why did it take well over a month to catch up on the backlog of work from the strike of 2000?

Little or no training, my a$$. I'm a Verizon (union) employee, and I've been in the classroom for training for 34 total weeks over the course of my 14 year career there. Yep, that's over 8 months of training for my so called "non skilled" job. (Oh, and 4 years of college before that.) That's not including the "on the job" training that I get on a daily basis. Believe me, I earn my pay and benefits at Verizon, and don't take kindly to a $20,000+ cut to my compensation package. Especially from a company that earned 6.9 BILLION dollars during the first 6 months of 2011. This is not a struggling company we're talking about, but a company making record profits. It's a company that pays their CEO $55,000 per day.

Too many working class Americans have for too long just accepted the unfair treatment from employers, especially over the last 10-15 years. These companies are pitting working class Americans against each other, as is well represented on this thread. The working class is not the problem! Someone has to take a stand at some point and say enough is enough. People are saying they would love to have the jobs that the union people have at Verizon. Would you still love to have that job if it was equal to a job at Walmart or McDonald's? Because that's where it is headed if someone doesn't take a stand.

 

[S. C.]

What Have American Unions Ever Done For Us?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iObqguaNDdA&feature=player_embedded

 

[undertheradar]

Spoken like a true paper pushing manager, with absolutely NO CLUE as to what most of the employees at Verizon actually do on a daily basis. I'm not just talking about repair/installations and the customer service representatives that handle calls, but the behind the scene work that maintains the vRepair computer system, the e911 addressing systems, the Cofee system that the customer service reps use, and the multitude of other various computer systems that the company uses on a continuous basis. If the "replacement workers" are so competent at doing these jobs without much training, then why did it take well over a month to catch up on the backlog of work from the strike of 2000?

Little or no training, my a$$. I'm a Verizon (union) employee, and I've been in the classroom for training for 34 total weeks over the course of my 14 year career there. Yep, that's over 8 months of training for my so called "non skilled" job. (Oh, and 4 years of college before that.) That's not including the "on the job" training that I get on a daily basis. Believe me, I earn my pay and benefits at Verizon, and don't take kindly to a $20,000+ cut to my compensation package. Especially from a company that earned 6.9 BILLION dollars during the first 6 months of 2011. This is not a struggling company we're talking about, but a company making record profits. It's a company that pays their CEO $55,000 per day.

Too many working class Americans have for too long just accepted the unfair treatment from employers, especially over the last 10-15 years. These companies are pitting working class Americans against each other, as is well represented on this thread. The working class is not the problem! Someone has to take a stand at some point and say enough is enough. People are saying they would love to have the jobs that the union people have at Verizon. Would you still love to have that job if it was equal to a job at Walmart or McDonald's? Because that's where it is headed if someone doesn't take a stand.

Since your division is currently losing market share on a daily basis, how many jobs do you foresee being required to handle the ever shrinking customer base. Since landlines are becoming obsolete, what will your future demands be when there is no need for your services? Based upon what you wrote, compared to the financial realities that are today's economy, you are expecting the non-union workers to continue to subsidize your failing division via your fully paid medical and pensions? If you owned a business, say a chain of 5 amusement parks and 4 of the 5 were profitable, each on it's own. But you have this 5th one, it was your first and it costs the most to run. It isn't profitable, in fact you have to take profit to keep it running. Your employees here are your only union ones and they demand the most compensation even though they generate zero profit. Would you honestly continue to subsidize this failing unit with your profits? Be sure to answer this from a purely business view, as there isn't room for emotion here.

Sorry, your unions are not fighting to preserve the American way of life or for the survival of the middle class. They are trying to use that as the message but reality says that they are only looking out for themselves. If the union members aren't working, there is no reason for them to pay union dues. That is what the real fight is here. Think I'm missing the point? How many Verizon jobs were union 20 years ago, 10 years ago, or even 5 years ago?

 

[Deealee]

Ok I was going to leave this thread alone until I read this. My dh works for Comcast, which is not unionized. My dh works very hard and has a skill level that I would love to see you match. I want to see you jumping fences at 2 in the morning to get to the box in a backyard because the cable is out and have a gun pulled on you. I want to see you be in a bucket truck 2 hours after Hurricane Ike came through to get lines off the ground, leaving your family still scared and in the dark. I want you to take the 2 week classes that he has to take and pass for his raise. I want you to take phone calls during dinner cause if your repeat level is above 3% you get written up. Did I mention that if a cable box just craps out for no reason and has to be replaced that it counts as a repeat even if you didn't install it. So yeah anybody can go to Home Depot and run the wires for cable/phone/internet with a little help from the internet but it takes someone SKILLED to know how and why those little wires work. It takes someone SKILLED to work on the lines outside.

To those of you that are striking or have spouses that are striking, while my dh is not part of an union nor do we want to be, I will be thinking of you everyday that this goes on.

As a striking Verizon employee...

Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!

 

[threecrazykids]

Since your division is currently losing market share on a daily basis, how many jobs do you foresee being required to handle the ever shrinking customer base. Since landlines are becoming obsolete, what will your future demands be when there is no need for your services? Based upon what you wrote, compared to the financial realities that are today's economy, you are expecting the non-union workers to continue to subsidize your failing division via your fully paid medical and pensions? If you owned a business, say a chain of 5 amusement parks and 4 of the 5 were profitable, each on it's own. But you have this 5th one, it was your first and it costs the most to run. It isn't profitable, in fact you have to take profit to keep it running. Your employees here are your only union ones and they demand the most compensation even though they generate zero profit. Would you honestly continue to subsidize this failing unit with your profits? Be sure to answer this from a purely business view, as there isn't room for emotion here.

Sorry, your unions are not fighting to preserve the American way of life or for the survival of the middle class. They are trying to use that as the message but reality says that they are only looking out for themselves. If the union members aren't working, there is no reason for them to pay union dues. That is what the real fight is here. Think I'm missing the point? How many Verizon jobs were union 20 years ago, 10 years ago, or even 5 years ago?

THANK YOU! Very well said! The union leaders throw out 2 numbers for these union people and they run with it like it's the ONLY things that count in this company. 1. How much did the company report as profit? and 2. How much do the top execs make? That's all they care about. If those 2 numbers represent a positive number at the end of the day then clearly they make too much. Ignore how much of that profit goes BACK into the business as investments in the network, etc. And so what if McAdams and Seidenburg make over 55k a day...so does Derek Jeter, Tiger Woods, Donald Trump, etc. Seidenburg was a tech and worked his way to the top! Everyone had that opportunity but apparently didn't cut it!

Has your union come up with ways for you to increase YOUR pay? Do they have any other jobs out there that are going to pay you "what you're really worth?" How many jobs have these unions CREATED in other companies to be employed? ZERO, that's how many.

And the company isn't TAKING 20k pay out of your pocket. That's what the union WANTS you to believe. Rolling your pension into a 401k isn't taking anything from you. It's just giving you different ways to invest it.

And everyone knows that this contract isn't going to be signed without some sort of handout from the company for your pay increases too. That will offset some of the healthcare costs that you would need to pay.

If you really want any sympathy from the rest of the employees at this company and fight for "fair"...how about the union workers get NOTHING until the REST of the 135,000 employees have their health insurance paid, dependent care paid, tuition reimbursement paid (at 100%), etc.

When you've got customer service /order entry reps with no degree pulling down anywhere between $30-$40 an hour PLUS 100% of their benefits paid I think it's high time people realize just how overpaid they are!

 

[sam_gordon]

Spoken like a true paper pushing manager, with absolutely NO CLUE as to what most of the employees at Verizon actually do on a daily basis. I'm not just talking about repair/installations and the customer service representatives that handle calls, but the behind the scene work that maintains the vRepair computer system, the e911 addressing systems, the Cofee system that the customer service reps use, and the multitude of other various computer systems that the company uses on a continuous basis. If the "replacement workers" are so competent at doing these jobs without much training, then why did it take well over a month to catch up on the backlog of work from the strike of 2000?

Little or no training, my a$$. I'm a Verizon (union) employee, and I've been in the classroom for training for 34 total weeks over the course of my 14 year career there. Yep, that's over 8 months of training for my so called "non skilled" job. (Oh, and 4 years of college before that.) That's not including the "on the job" training that I get on a daily basis. Believe me, I earn my pay and benefits at Verizon, and don't take kindly to a $20,000+ cut to my compensation package. Especially from a company that earned 6.9 BILLION dollars during the first 6 months of 2011. This is not a struggling company we're talking about, but a company making record profits. It's a company that pays their CEO $55,000 per day.

Too many working class Americans have for too long just accepted the unfair treatment from employers, especially over the last 10-15 years. These companies are pitting working class Americans against each other, as is well represented on this thread. The working class is not the problem! Someone has to take a stand at some point and say enough is enough. People are saying they would love to have the jobs that the union people have at Verizon. Would you still love to have that job if it was equal to a job at Walmart or McDonald's? Because that's where it is headed if someone doesn't take a stand.

Why is it "fair" for union employees to complain about the pay discrepancy between themselves and the CEO but it's "unfair" for non-union non-Verizon employees to complain that union members are making more?

And as has been mentioned... are these "record profits" and CEO pay you're quoting from Verizon or the wireline division?

You're worried about a $20K cut in benefits. Got it. No problem. Guess what... I'm guessing most people get less than that in benefits TOTAL.

Union supporters keep throwing out "fair" when it comes to pay & benefits. But they seem to be using company wide profits vs. their income on what's "fair". That's not really a valid comparison. What would be "fair" is Verizon paying similar to their competitors for the same job. For example, if Verizon pays a union lineman in NY $50K/year and Bellsouth pays their non-union lineman in NY $75K/year, that wouldn't be fair. However, if that was the case, why wouldn't Verizon employees simply leave?

I get that no one wants to accept pay or benefit cuts. Totally understand that. But has the union countered with anything (other than "keep the status quo")? Companies around the country have done furloughs, paycuts, and layoffs over the last couple years. Have these union members gone through any of this? Unfortunately, companies are cutting back where they can to remain profitable. I had to take furlough days in 2009. Did it suck? Yes. If I didn't like it I could quit. Yes, I am in a "skilled" position. Does that mean there's not 50 people who could do my job? No. They may not do it as well as I do, but they could still get it done.

 

[sherry7]

What Have American Unions Ever Done For Us?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iObqguaNDdA&feature=player_embedded

That was somewhat cheesy, but the video has several excellent points. Thanks for the link.

 

[ccgirl]

THANK YOU! Very well said! The union leaders throw out 2 numbers for these union people and they run with it like it's the ONLY things that count in this company. 1. How much did the company report as profit? and 2. How much do the top execs make? That's all they care about. If those 2 numbers represent a positive number at the end of the day then clearly they make too much. Ignore how much of that profit goes BACK into the business as investments in the network, etc. And so what if McAdams and Seidenburg make over 55k a day...so does Derek Jeter, Tiger Woods, Donald Trump, etc. Seidenburg was a tech and worked his way to the top! Everyone had that opportunity but apparently didn't cut it!

Has your union come up with ways for you to increase YOUR pay? Do they have any other jobs out there that are going to pay you "what you're really worth?" How many jobs have these unions CREATED in other companies to be employed? ZERO, that's how many.

And the company isn't TAKING 20k pay out of your pocket. That's what the union WANTS you to believe. Rolling your pension into a 401k isn't taking anything from you. It's just giving you different ways to invest it.

And everyone knows that this contract isn't going to be signed without some sort of handout from the company for your pay increases too. That will offset some of the healthcare costs that you would need to pay.

If you really want any sympathy from the rest of the employees at this company and fight for "fair"...how about the union workers get NOTHING until the REST of the 135,000 employees have their health insurance paid, dependent care paid, tuition reimbursement paid (at 100%), etc.

When you've got customer service /order entry reps with no degree pulling down anywhere between $30-$40 an hour PLUS 100% of their benefits paid!

I totally agree with the bolded. But, they won't. They just keep wanting more and more and more. Or, not having to pay into benefits at all. Sorry, but the economy is tanking and changes need to be made. I don't care how much of a profit the company as a whole is making right now. To those union employees - why would it be unfair to have to have to pay into your healthcare? I'm really just not seeing how unfair it is.

 

[ccgirl]

I am currently in a union...but only because I essentially didn't have a choice (I'm a teacher). We have been working without a contract for over a year. My union is "upset" with me because I do more than my contract requires of me, without demanding anything in return. Pretty soon, we are expected to go to "work to rule" which means that I am not allowed to come in early or stay late or do anything extra for my students. If the union strikes, I will cross the picket line. I was hired to do a job, and I am going to do it. My students and the community depends on me to do it.

Personally, I think unions set up a confrontational "us" vs "them" scenario, no matter what type of business they're in. If only the workers and the management could work together to reach a common goal, I think a lot more people would be happy.

You sound like a very reasonable person. Wish there was more people like you around. SOmeone with true work ethic that actually cares about others; not just themself. That doesn't go after things just because they think they can. No sense of false entitlement. Good for you and good for your students.

 

[cristielf]

I'm always amazed that people think if a company is making money, that they somehow aren't allowed to make more money. That pretty much is the idea. The company answers to their shareholders, not the employees. If you feel it shouldn't be that way, you can stop participating in capitalism or travel back in time. Otherwise those are the rules the Western world runs by.

The "demands" Verizon has seems quite reasonable to most outsiders.

I used to work for a telecommunications company also.

Freeze the pension? My pension was frozen years ago, and as it is so underfunded it doesn't matter anyway. I can't even roll it over as the laws require me to take half now if I do that. Pensions are a luxury few large corporations still have.

No wage increases for 3 year? I haven't gotten a raise in 5. And I'm considered a top performer.

Contributions to a health plan? Seriously? My former employer would charge you a $1500 fine if your spouse worked and didn't use their companies health plan.

No job security? Are you serious?

AMEN!! If these people don't want their jobs and they aren't "good enough" I know PLENTY of people who would take them in a heartbeat.

 

[Muushka]

You sound like a very reasonable person. Wish there was more people like you around. SOmeone with true work ethic that actually cares about others; not just themself. That doesn't go after things just because they think they can. No sense of false entitlement. Good for you and good for your students.

You know what I just realized why I dislike unions, other than the financial problems that they cause?

As in Tink's case, she (I am assuming she is a she) is not able to be an individual. In a normal work environment (non-union I should say) Tink's work ethics would be applauded and rewarded. She would be recognized as an excellent employee and be compensated for it (but I know that is not why she is wanting to do a good job).

In a union environment, everyone gets a raise at the same time. Collective benefits. Where is the drive to perform? I always tried to do the very best job I could. I never worked for a union. I was compensated for my performance, not for what the union boss got for me. And if someone at work did something wrong, they would be reprimanded for it, remembered at raise time for it or fired for it. Not having to answer to a union why they were let go.

Collectivism versus individualism.

 

[melmar136]

Really haven't had time to get back and read the last 5 pages of comments. I've been out, walking the picket line having complete strangers yell things at us, like "go back to work you F**%#$ idiots" Our response? "we'd love to."
Oh, and the big C word. That's always nice.

A customer at a VZ Wireless store pushed one of our women down to the ground, as he went in with his little boy, then on his way back out of the store gave everyone the finger while screaming F you! Classy!

It's not just us "big bad union members" who are able to act like some have portrayed.

 

[ccgirl]

You know what I just realized why I dislike unions, other than the financial problems that they cause?

As in Tink's case, she (I am assuming she is a she) is not able to be an individual. In a normal work environment (non-union I should say) Tink's work ethics would be applauded and rewarded. She would be recognized as an excellent employee and be compensated for it (but I know that is not why she is wanting to do a good job).

In a union environment, everyone gets a raise at the same time. Collective benefits. Where is the drive to perform? I always tried to do the very best job I could. I never worked for a union. I was compensated for my performance, not for what the union boss got for me. And if someone at work did something wrong, they would be reprimanded for it, remembered at raise time for it or fired for it. Not having to answer to a union why they were let go.

Collectivism versus individualism.

Exactly. My mom used to be in a union. All of the other people would yell at her to slow down or do less work that she was making everyone else look bad. There was so much dead weight around it was ridiculous. As you say, no drive to perform. But, when it came time for layoffs she was low man on the totem pole due to seniority. So, instead of keeping the best performer, they had to let her go and keep the dead weights. Now that's unfair!