Vaccinations

[mrsltg]

I'm not being condescending. And in response to not doing the vaccines "on anyone's schedule", recommended vaccine schedules and doses have been developed after large studies and measurements of immune responses to provide the optimal protection with minimal side effects.

To alter that schedule will risk suboptimal response (ie. lack of immunity), with twice the number of injections.

In your professional opinion, what do you think of Hep B being given to a newborn with no risk factors (ie, parents are negative as are siblings.) I am planning to delay this shot until my newborn's two month check-up. Nothing I have read has pointed to a situation where my baby would be at risk for this disease at that point in her life. Is there some information I am missing? I DO plan to speak with my own pediatrician about this, as well.

 

[Ciao Mickey]

These are the countries with better infant mortality rates than the US, it's not that good.

164 New Caledonia 6.1
165 Cyprus 5.9
166 Brunei 5.5
167 Channel Islands (Jersey and Guernsey) 5.2
168 Cuba 5.1
169 New Zealand 5.0
170 Portugal 5.0
171 Italy 5.0
172 Ireland 4.9
173 Canada 4.8
174 United Kingdom 4.8
175 Slovenia 4.8
176 Israel 4.7
177 Netherlands 4.7
178 Luxembourg 4.5
179 Australia 4.4
180 Austria 4.4
181 Denmark 4.4
182 Germany 4.3
183 Spain 4.2
184 France 4.2
185 Belgium 4.2
186 Korea, South 4.1
187 Switzerland 4.1
188 Czech Republic 3.8
189 Finland 3.7
190 Hong Kong 3.7
191 Norway 3.3
192 Sweden 3.2
193 Japan 3.2
194 Singapore 3.0
195 Iceland 2.9

Don't most of these countries have a lower birth rate than the USA? Especially some of the European countries where they have to import labor because not enough babies are being born.

 

[BelleBoo&AmisMum]

I stated my reason in an earlier post but here it is again. One of the reason for vaccinating is to protect the community. Vaccines aren't 100% effective and never have been. However, if EVERY child has them the likelihood of having an outbreak of measles, mumps, chicken pox is negligible. However, if out of 500 kids in a school 50 aren't vaccinated it really could take hold and put those who's vaccination didn't take hold at risk.

I just don't think parents should be able to have it both ways. If you don't want to vaccinate then your child shouldn't be allowed in a group setting for extended periods - i.e. school, community sports and art programs etc.

Wow, so you think I should keep my children home from school, they can't play sports, or do arts because they're not vaccinated. I'm seriously at a loss for words.

FWIW - my children have a medical waiver for vaccines from school. DS had an adverse reaction on his first round of vaccines at a little over a year old. My original plan was to delay his vaccines, but after the adverse reaction we stopped all together. DD #1 has allergies with anaphylactic reaction and because of her brothers reaction they're not comfortable giving her vaccines. DD #2 has seizures and allergies along with the family connection. The medical waivers were signed off by their ped and the girls pulmonologist who thinks we would be crazy to give them vaccines.

 

[mrsltg]

I didn't say that the "non vaccinated" group in the study should be Amish. I'm just saying that the articles regarding the fact that the Amish have very few autistic children in their community has spurred people to START a large scale study.

Any well designed study would compare children in similar geographical areas w/ similar backgrounds as well as other variables.

I understand. I am just wondering why the Amish would even be brought into the discussion? I am assuming they probably have lower rates of a lot of things we in modern society have. I find the issue interesting, is all.

 

[Deb in IA]

hey, deb...in this instance it was anecdotal evidence TO vaccinate....

BTW, i,too, agree w/ChrisnSteph and above article

LOL, KariC!! I admit; I was reading too quickly and only got to the "our twins did not get the vaccine (was not doing it then)" and mistook it to mean that YOU were not doing it!

So yes, kdbattista, you are right, and I mis-interpreted that.

 

[Minniemouse07]

I'm not being condescending. And in response to not doing the vaccines "on anyone's schedule", recommended vaccine schedules and doses have been developed after large studies and measurements of immune responses to provide the optimal protection with minimal side effects.

To alter that schedule will risk suboptimal response (ie. lack of immunity), with twice the number of injections.

Actually most of the schedule is timed to coincide w/ "well baby/child" visits. Children tend to visit their pediatrician less and less as they get older so the schedule is designed to get as many of the vaccines in while they still have a "captured audience."

If you do some research in the history of the implementation of the Hep B vaccine, and the recommendation to start the series "at birth" ... you will find that they first tried to give the vaccine to only the at risk population (IV drug users and those w/ multiple sexual partners) and they couldn't get them to return for the follow up vaxes (three in a series).

Since they weren't successful w/ the target population, they then turned to young children because they were coming to the dr's office regularly and would probably finish the series once started. In fact, the Hep B vaccine was never tested on any child under the age of 5yo before it was placed on the vaccination schedule for newborns.

This is all documented information that you can find on the FDA and CDC websites if you dig deep enough.

 

[Wonderlandmom]

Ok. I'm just thinking outloud here so bear with me. Aren't there A LOT of lifestyle differences between average Kid America and their Amish counterparts? I don't think you could possibly derive anything from comparing the two groups. First, no electronic media. Second, much more exercise. Third, no chemically preserved food. They're also a lot less likely to die in a car accidents... So, how can the fact these kids have a lower incidence of Autism be attributed to anything much less a lack of vaccines?

ITA! I was writing the same thing when I saw your post appear!

Amish lifestyles are vastly different in so many aspects!

 

[Deb in IA]

In your professional opinion, what do you think of Hep B being given to a newborn with no risk factors (ie, parents are negative as are siblings.) I am planning to delay this shot until my newborn's two month check-up. Nothing I have read has pointed to a situation where my baby would be at risk for this disease at that point in her life. Is there some information I am missing? I DO plan to speak with my own pediatrician about this, as well.

I agree to speaking to your pediatrician.

Here is a resource that may answer some of your questions:

http://www.ncirs.usyd.edu.au/facts/hepb_brochure.pdf

 

[Wonderlandmom]

Given that recent autism research has pointed to a very possible genetic cause, this might very well be at work here with the Amish. Due to centuries of marrying within their own community and having a common ancestry, the Amish have a very distinct gene pool from the rest of our citizens. For examples, there are life threatening genetic diseases such as "Maple Syrup Urine Disease" that are found in MUCH higher rates among Amish (and Mennonite) children than the rest of the population.

Exactly. I think looking at the Amish almost proves that autism has a genetic basis. It is not in their gene pool.

 

[hucifer]

The pediatric dose of FluZone, as well as the individual prefilled syringes of the adult dose is thimerasol-free.

http://www.fluzone.com/?fa=protect/fluzone/about/recommend

According to the FDA, there is still Thimerosal in influenza vaccines:
http://www.fda.gov/cber/vaccine/thimerosal.htm

Thimerosal has been removed from or reduced to trace amounts in all vaccines routinely recommended for children 6 years of age and younger, with the exception of inactivated influenza vaccine. A preservative-free version of the inactivated influenza vaccine (contains trace amounts of thimerosal) is available in limited supply at this time for use in infants, children and pregnant women.

 

[3jsmommy]

I was just at the ped. this morning for my sons 1 yr well check & I had them delay his MMR & it will be spaced out when we decide he will get it.
My first 2 boys got there vacc. on schedule, but they where much bigger than DS1 at this age, plus I am a lot more educated on "studies" now than I was then.

I lost my beautiful 22 yr old sister 3 yrs. ago due to a "side effect" from an SSRI prescribed for insomnia....she took it for 7 days.

I have been to many FDA & congressional hearings & the amount of $ the drug companies spread around D.C. is staggering.

Big Pharma is especially good at forming foundations & funding studies.
Do I trust the gov. or drug companies....
If you have seen what I have you would understand how deep in their pockets the drug companies have these organizations.
Have vaccines saved lives.....YES.
Do I believe in giving them to my children....YES.
Do I think the schedule is one size fits all....NO.
Do I believe that drug companies know & try to cover up the harmful side effects of drugs....DEFINITLY...& they would lose billions of dollars if they didn't.
I respect everyone on here w/ an opinion, just be careful who is paying for the info you are receiving....not always easy to do.

 

[Deb in IA]

According to the FDA, there is still Thimerosal in influenza vaccines:
http://www.fda.gov/cber/vaccine/thimerosal.htm

Please look at the Table in that reference you cited.

It agrees with my previous statement.

Influenza Fluzone
Fluzone
(Sanofi Pasteur, Inc)3
(no thimerosal) Free 12/23/2004

 

[Nikel]

Do I think the schedule is one size fits all....NO.

This is a big one for me. If 2 people get sick, they're not going to get the exact same medicine in the exact same doses. Pick up a bottle of children's tylenol, and the dosing is determined by the child's weight. My dd was (and is) petite, and at 6 months wasn't even quite 12.5 lbs. There are newborns that weigh more than that. At 6 months, her brother was almost twice that weight. Yet they're both supposed to get the exact same amount of vaccines?!?!?!

 

[LadyShiva]

This is a big one for me. If 2 people get sick, they're not going to get the exact same medicine in the exact same doses. Pick up a bottle of children's tylenol, and the dosing is determined by the child's weight. My dd was (and is) petite, and at 6 months wasn't even quite 12.5 lbs. There are newborns that weigh more than that. At 6 months, her brother was almost twice that weight. Yet they're both supposed to get the exact same amount of vaccines?!?!?!

Yes. Would you like an explanation?

Brandie

 

[CathrynRose]

OK. Now I get it.

If you listen to anectodal stories from people on an Internet discussion board over facts and data, then there is no point in my providing you with the best scientific data we have.

. [/U][/B]

***sigh***

I believe she is not only taking your 'scientific data' into account - she's also doing the best job she can do as a mother and also taking into account what you call 'anectodal stories'.

Just 60 or so years ago Scientific Data supported removing ribs and exposing Tuberculosis patients to 'fresh air' as a means of curing them. Obviously we know better now, agreed?

Making informed, from all sides of the coin, decisions are something that should be commended, not chastisized - ESPECIALLY being a new mom.

To alter that schedule will risk suboptimal response (ie. lack of immunity), with twice the number of injections.

Im sorry but this is not true. There is no 'double up' on injections, or twice as many - theyre given later, at the same schedule-frame they'd be given to an infant.

 

[pansmermaidzlagoon]

People who are opposed to vaccination on principle – those with religious or philosophic objections – are unlikely to be influenced by scientific data. But the facts are so overwhelmingly in favor of vaccination that even skeptics are hard-pressed to refute them. Anti-vaccine groups tend to stress the same arguments repeatedly; many of these arguments use anecdotal support in place of real evidence to make their point.

not true!

we claim reilgious and philosophical objections because those are the choices allowed us on the exemption forms. It doesn't mean we do not base our decisions on scientific data. It just isn't the data you agree with.

 

[Minniemouse07]

Please look at the Table in that reference you cited.

It agrees with my previous statement.

Influenza Fluzone
Fluzone
(Sanofi Pasteur, Inc)3
(no thimerosal) Free 12/23/2004

The take home message is...

SOME of the flu vaccines are considered thimerisol "free" and others aren't so if you decide to get the flu vaccine it would be a good idea to ASK which version is available!

 

[ChrisnSteph]

Do I believe that drug companies know & try to cover up the harmful side effects of drugs....DEFINITLY...& they would lose billions of dollars if they didn't.

First, I'm very sorry about your sister.

I'm not sure I buy into the theory that the "Big Pharm" tries to coverup the possible harmful side effects of drugs. Everytime I get a prescription from my pharmacy it comes with several pages describing every possible side effect, from the common to not so common.

I don't believe for one second that drug companies are perfect, but I can see how they can be put in a bind. You can test a medication on 5 million people and have it work perfectly and flawlessly, and then a few people will come along and have some severe or fatal adverse reaction to it. Does that mean that it should be pulled off the market or be deemed unsafe for everyone else? I struggle with that idea.

 

[Nikel]

Yes. Would you like an explanation?

Brandie

From some random person on the internet? I'll pass, thanks.

I've researched on my own and discussed things with our Dr, and I'm quite comfortable with my decision.

 

[hucifer]

Please look at the Table in that reference you cited.

It agrees with my previous statement.

Influenza Fluzone
Fluzone
(Sanofi Pasteur, Inc)3
(no thimerosal) Free 12/23/2004

Yes, the website shows that it has been removed from most of the influenza vaccines (or only has trace amounts), but with the exception of inactivated influenza vaccine. My point was that it's still out there.