Vaccinations

[Deb in IA]

not true!

we claim reilgious and philosophical objections because those are the choices allowed us on the exemption forms. It doesn't mean we do not base our decisions on scientific data. It just isn't the data you agree with.

Data is data.

It is your interpretation of the data that I don't agree with.

 

[LadyShiva]

From some random person on the internet? I'll pass, thanks.

I've researched on my own and discussed things with our Dr, and I'm quite comfortable with my decision.

Can't say I'm surprised.

Brandie

 

[Minniemouse07]

not true!

we claim reilgious and philosophical objections because those are the choices allowed us on the exemption forms. It doesn't mean we do not base our decisions on scientific data. It just isn't the data you agree with.

I have to agree w/ this. I went to the scientific literature to do my own research. I didn't depend on anecdotal support but actual peer reviewed studies. I read studies on both sides of the fence ... and to be honest I'm not really happy with any of them.

The "provax" studies aren't designed well (like the HPV one where the placebo contained the vax additives) and/or don't ask the "big" questions... and the "nonvax" studies aren't large enough in scope in order to answer any of the big questions.

In the end we claim a religious exemption, but I would take a philosophical one in a heartbeat if it was available. Philosophically, I am opposed to giving my child a vaccine that I believe may harm him/her.

 

[Nikel]

Can't say I'm surprised.

Brandie

Thanks for the snark.

Maybe you think it's crazy of me, but I do NOT take medical advice from people not qualified. Since I have no way of verifying any qualifications you may claim to have, I'm not interested in your advice.

Oh, and thanks for jumping to conclusions about me and my agenda. We were a vaxxing family, until my dd had a bad reaction to her 4 month shots. We're currently indefinitely delaying. I have no agenda, other than keeping my children healthy and alive.

 

[momof3disneyholics]

Also - here's a board (much like the DIS). Theres a TON of parenting stuff - some rather 'different' IMO....

BUT - in any case, you can find quite a few links and articles, and doctors in your area (if you choose to delay vac's):

http://www.mothering.com/discussions/forumdisplay.php?f=47&order=desc

I go onto this board everyday. I am totally a "crunchy mommy" and even though some of the stuff on there is a bit extreme (family cloth!!!! YUCK!) alot of it is really good. I used that site to help me research delaying vaccinations.

 

[poohandwendy]

I think what bothers me the most is that we are afforded the luxury of this debate because of the 'herd' being immunized. This has caused all of these diseases to be considered the lesser of the evils, because so few people have had to deal with them, for so many years.

I do suspect that because more and more people are deciding to not immunize on schedule, we will see an outbreak of one or more of these diseases, it's inevitable because they are communicable and less people will be protected.

I would not take the chance, based on theory...which is exactly what the immunization/autism link is. Theory.

What is not theory is that the diseases that we have been immunizing against have been reduced dramatically, that less people are dying. And that those diseases have the potential to kill many people when the 'herd' isn't protected. Ironically, we have been living with the benefits of 'herd immunity' due to widespread vaccinations for so long, it's come to the point where people have been cushioned from the devastating effects of them and question their importance. People who are choosing not to vaccinate are making that decision based on the protection they are afforded from the rest of the herd who IS vaccinating. Won't be long before the numbers grow, that luxury is gone and many, many people will be unprotected and vulnerable.

JMHO

 

[hucifer]

I go onto this board everyday. I am totally a "crunchy mommy" and even though some of the stuff on there is a bit extreme (family cloth!!!! YUCK!) alot of it is really good. I used that site to help me research delaying vaccinations.

I love that site, lots of helpful women who really know their stuff about all kinds of issues.

 

[pansmermaidzlagoon]

Data is data.

It is your interpretation of the data that I don't agree with.

well, at least you are now willing to admit I am considering scientific data....a step in the right direction I suppose.....

again, whetther or not you agree on my "interpretation"...doesn't mean I am not looking at scientific data....or bsing my ddecisions on it.....

I realize you do not agree with my intrepretaion....as I do not agree with yours.....

 

[momof3disneyholics]

I love that site, lots of helpful women who really know their stuff about all kinds of issues.

I know. I totally credit them for helping me with my charting when I was trying to get pregnant.

 

[LadyShiva]

From some random person on the internet? I'll pass, thanks.

And you thought I was snarky???? Did you notice your own post???

I posted 3 total sentences. Out of those sentences, you've judged me and found me guilty!

You read an AWFUL LOT into 3 sentences. Did you perhaps mix me up with another poster? I offered an explanation of how immunology works, versus treatment for a disease. You turned me down and basically dismissed my worth as a contributor to a PUBLIC discussion board.

Wow.

Brandie

 

[pansmermaidzlagoon]

I think what bothers me the most is that we are afforded the luxury of this debate because of the 'herd' being immunized. This has caused all of these diseases to be considered the lesser of the evils, because so few people have had to deal with them, for so many years.

I do suspect that because more and more people are deciding to not immunize on schedule, we will see an outbreak of one or more of these diseases, it's inevitable because they are communicable and less people will be protected.

I would not take the chance, based on theory...which is exactly what the immunization/autism link is. Theory.

What is not theory is that the diseases that we have been immunizing against have been reduced dramatically, that less people are dying. And that those diseases have the potential to kill many people when the 'herd' isn't protected. Ironically, we have been living with the benefits of 'herd immunity' due to widespread vaccinations for so long, it's come to the point where people have been cushioned from the devastating effects of them and question their importance. People who are choosing not to vaccinate are making that decision based on the protection they are afforded from the rest of the herd who IS vaccinating. Won't be long before the numbers grow, that luxury is gone and many, many people will be unprotected and vulnerable.

JMHO

I don't buy into "herd immunity" (and please see my article from last night about the million children in this country not immunized (nothing to do with objections)....how any one can talk about herd immunity is beyond me with these circumstances...) so, no I do not base my decisions on that....and, as has been said I will not put my child at risk for that. I have to make the best decision I can for my child....

 

[pansmermaidzlagoon]

Thanks for the snark.

Maybe you think it's crazy of me, but I do NOT take medical advice from people not qualified. Since I have no way of verifying any qualifications you may claim to have, I'm not interested in your advice.

Oh, and thanks for jumping to conclusions about me and my agenda. We were a vaxxing family, until my dd had a bad reaction to her 4 month shots. We're currently indefinitely delaying. I have no agenda, other than keeping my children healthy and alive.

you are darned if you do, darned if you don't!!!! Those of us who have expressed any apprehension with vaccines have been accused of taking bad information from "just any one" on the internet - but then you are darned for deferring to your own doctor!!!! Wow!!!!!

 

[LadyShiva]

you are darned if you do, darned if you don't!!!! Those of us who have expressed any apprehension with vaccines have been accused of taking bad information from "just any one" on the internet - but then you are darned for deferring to your own doctor!!!! Wow!!!!!

Seriously, are you talking to me?

Brandie

 

[mickeyboat]

again, whetther or not you agree on my "interpretation"...doesn't mean I am not looking at scientific data....or bsing my ddecisions on it.....

I realize you do not agree with my intrepretaion....as I do not agree with yours.....

I consider myself pretty damn smart, but I am not a doctor, I am not a scientist, and I am not an epidemiologist. I could look at epidemiological study on vaccinations all day long and not be able to make heads or tails of it. I am neither trained nor qualified to interptet the information.

But my pediatrician is, as are the thousands upon thousands of medical, scientific and epidemiological professionals who recommend vaccinations. That is good enough for me.

 

[pansmermaidzlagoon]

I consider myself pretty damn smart, but I am not a doctor, I am not a scientist, and I am not an epidemiologist. I could look at epidemiological study on vaccinations all day long and not be able to make heads or tails of it. I am neither trained nor qualified to interptet the information.

But my pediatrician is, as are the thousands upon thousands of medical, scientific and epidemiological professionals who recommend vaccinations. That is good enough for me.

wow - look at my typos!!!!

I have been doing just fine with my interpretation thanks...given my educational background that you know nothing about....but, seriously, even that is not needed given some great books written by people who are quite capable of such interpreatation....there is plenty of info out there, not all needs to be "interpreted" by an "expert"

 

[Nikel]

And you thought I was snarky???? Did you notice your own post???

I posted 3 total sentences. Out of those sentences, you've judged me and found me guilty!

You read an AWFUL LOT into 3 sentences. Did you perhaps mix me up with another poster? I offered an explanation of how immunology works, versus treatment for a disease. You turned me down and basically dismissed my worth as a contributor to a PUBLIC discussion board.

Wow.

Brandie

My post was completely serious. The fact of the matter is that I have absolutely no way at all of knowing who you really are. We are all just random people on a message board. Even if you had a phd in immunology, I would just have to blindly trust that you are telling the truth. When it comes to medical issues, I am NOT comfortable trusting people I don't know at all. If that offends you, well, I'm sorry. That's just the way I am though. Feel free to post your explanation for others if you like, but it won't change anything. I'll stick to our Drs, that know our medical history.

I thought I was polite in declining your explanation, but I guess I wasn't. I'm sorry. Though I have no clue what I found you guilty of.

 

[poohandwendy]

I don't buy into "herd immunity" (and please see my article from last night about the million children in this country not immunized (nothing to do with objections)....how any one can talk about herd immunity is beyond me with these circumstances...) so, no I do not base my decisions on that....and, as has been said I will not put my child at risk for that. I have to make the best decision I can for my child....

That is easy to say, given that the 'herd' immunizations have made it possible for these diseases to be pretty much a thing of the past. Herd immunity isn't a theory, it's a fact, when it comes to communicable diseases.

Those millions of children AND the millions who are not being vaccinated due to 'objections' are making us vulnerable to diseases. It's only a matter of time.

 

[LadyShiva]

I find it appalling that any thread about vaccinations on the DISBoards (or elsewhere, for that matter) always devolves into people posting with bad tempers.

I've been in this thread for 2 pages and am already ticked off at people being ugly to me.

Think about that... We're no longer being friendly, we're no longer listening or sharing, we're putting people on ignore and dismissing them as idiots.

What point is there in this thread? To just irritate the crud out of each other by just practicing our ugly responses?

Some people believe one thing, some people believe something else. Same as politics. We each cling to our "facts" and denounce the other side's facts.

I know, same old, same old. Sorry to interrupt the poster bashing.

Brandie

 

[Wonderlandmom]

OP, here are some articles you may want to look at too, if they have not already been mentioned:

http://www.apologia.com/vaccines/novac_death.html

Many parents, their heads spinning from listening to all of this, compromise and adopt an attitude like this one: "If everyone else is immunizing, then the immunity of others will keep my child safe and I won’t have to worry about the potential side effects from vaccines." Often those who practice this are unaware of the consequences of their decision for both their own children and society at large.

and these:
http://www.apologia.com/vaccines/tragedies.html

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/Health/Story?id=2892683&page=1

 

[mickeyboat]

wow - look at my typos!!!!

I have been doing just fine with my interpretation thanks...given my educational background that you know nothing about....but, seriously, even that is not need given some great books written by people who are quite capable of such interpreatation....

If you'd like to discuss typos.....

My post was simply to defend those of us, such as myself, who choose to follow the advice of our physicians, not to attack your ability to interpret scientific studies.