Vaccinations

I want to add a quick note about rotavirus....our twins did not get the vaccine (not doing it then.). They were breastfed for 14 months, did not go to daycare or to a church nursery. We were careful with exposure to things, as they were preemies (we did do synagis, as well). At 16 months, both caught rotavirus (no idea where), and both DH and I caught it too. Let me tell you, catching a 16 month old's vomit in a rubbermaid container 22 times in one night is not something anyone wants to do. This does not count the number of diarrhea diaper changes. The rashes from the diarrhea are horrific, as well. Each child visited Children's at least once for dehydration. And then, if that isn't enough (2 weeks of non-stop vomiting and diarrhea as we passed it from one to the next), the twins somehow picked it up again at 18 months, again with dehydration visits to Childrens (you just can't keep a thing in). This time, DD had a seizure that was NON-Febrile, and ended up on the neuro ward at Cinci Children's for 3 days. It was scary. It was determined to be "encephalopothy", the rotavirus Affected her central nervous system, not infected..that's encephalitis. So, needless to "type", DS got this at his 2 month check-up....nice-tasting little medicine.

And, rotavirus isn't "deadly". But, if a vaccine can prevent that miserable experience, and possibly side effects from the virus...I'm all for it. Same reason we did synagis.....why get RSV and have the possible life-long lung issues (that preemies are already predisposed to getting) if you can prevent it with a vaccine and caution.

Thank you!!! That's why I need to continue to research to compare the risk of the vaccine and the risk of the disease/virus itself. I appreciate you sharing your experience!!
 
Yes it is.

We have chosen not to vaccinate, based on the research we've done. In our birth plan we told them not to vaccinate our baby with Hep B...why on earth would you inject a fragile newborn with that? Why can't it wait?

There is so much information out there, it can be overwhelming to a new parent.

It is an issue of access and nothing more, which disgusts me. Get 'em while they're in the hospital because you might not get 'em later. Seriously! That is the reason.:sad2: Obviously I believe receiving a vaccine at just a few hours old is dangerous, but even if I didn't, I wouldn't allow my NEWBORN to be injected with something that is supposed to prevent a sexually or drug-use transmitted disease!!!!:eek: Also, you have to realize that many (if not most) parents have no clue which vaccines are for what. They follow the recommended schedule and that is good enough for them. OR, they may know what it's for, but only in a one-sentence answer sorta way, which horrifies me but is good enough for most people. And they still have the right to make that decision to vaccinate, no matter how little they know...so I think it's CRAZY that many people don't want ME to make that decision when I know so much about it!:rotfl: Another observation: I know so much about it because I have researched this issue for many years (a decade!). I wanted to know the facts...not the factOIDS printed on those one-sheet informational pamphlets they pass out. Anyone who is smart enough to come online and DIS is capable of researching the issue in-depth. They might not come to the same conclusion I did--they might fully vax their kids, on schedule!!--but I can't help but think everyone would be better off with a little more information!:thumbsup2
 
I haven't read all the replies but I did want to let you know that I had to get Rhogam shots while I was pregnant and I believe they still have Thimerasol in them.

We have been researching our hearts out because we are looking at a possible autism diagnosis for our DD and there certainly is a ton of info out there. I have to admit I felt pretty crappy about the Rhogam shots when I first found out.

Isn't Thimerasol still in the flu shot, too?

Doctors are too quick to shoot the parents down when they mention a connection. We need to have an open dialogue and reserch the issue further.

No, thimerosal is not in Rhogam currently.

http://www.rhogam.com/English/Professionals/aboutProfRhogam.aspx
There is Only ONE RhoGAM

More than a generation of proven safety and efficacy
The only Rh immune globulin product with Viresolve™ ultrafiltration, proven to remove both enveloped and nonenveloped viruses
All prefilled syringes are supplied, thimerosal-free, with safety shields and a latex-free delivery system.


As for the flu shot, Fluzone, the most commonly given vaccine for influenza, is thimerosal-free and has been for almost 4 years.
In addition, the FluMist nasal vaccine has always been thimerosal-free.

Here is a list of the preservative ingredients of all the commonly used vaccines.

http://www.fda.gov/cber/vaccine/thimerosal.htm#t1

And no, I'm not "shooting you down".
I'm just giving you the facts, and correcting your misperceptions.
 

No, thimerosal is not in Rhogam currently.

Currently it's not but it was up until 2001. At that time it was deemed necessary to stop using the thimerosal. What are in the vacccines NOW that will deem necessary to discontinue 5 or 10 years from now :confused: . That's what scares me and that's why I will research and choose what I feel is necessary and safe for my child.
 
"Epidemiological evidence" means that they studied the chemistry behind the vaccines, and the existing literature in regards to vaccines and autism.


NO.

Epidemiology has nothing to do with "chemistry".

From Wikipedia:
Epidemiology
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Epidemiology is the study of factors affecting the health and illness of populations, and serves as the foundation and logic of interventions made in the interest of public health and preventive medicine. It is considered a cornerstone methodology of public health research, and is highly regarded in evidence-based medicine for identifying risk factors for disease and determining optimal treatment approaches to clinical practice.
 
There has NEVER been a full scale study comparing vaccinated children to unvaccinated children here in the US.


Actually, there HAS been, not only in the US, but also in the UK, Denmark, and Sweden.

IOM Report: No Link Between Vaccines and Autism
By Michelle Meadows

There is no link between autism and the measles-mumps-rubella (MMR) vaccine or the vaccine preservative thimerosal, according to a report released by the Institute of Medicine's (IOM) Immunization Safety Review Committee.

The report, released in May 2004, was prepared by a committee of independent experts established by the IOM in 2001 at the request of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and the National Institutes of Health (NIH) to evaluate evidence on potential links between childhood vaccines and health problems. The agencies explored the issue because of growing controversy and questions from the public about vaccine safety.

Some parents have expressed concern because the symptoms of autism typically emerge in a child's second year of life, around the same time children first receive the MMR vaccine. Autism is a complex set of severe developmental disorders characterized by repetitive behavior and impaired social interaction and communication abilities. Other concerns the committee looked at include the use of thimerosal, a mercury-based compound used as a vaccine preservative, because many forms of mercury are known to damage the nervous system in high doses.

Review of the Research
This latest IOM report follows two reports on vaccines and autism published in 2001. The committee determined then that the evidence did not show an association between the MMR vaccine and autism, but that more evidence was needed regarding thimerosal. "The committee concluded that the evidence available at that time was inadequate to accept or reject a causal relationship between thimerosal and neurodevelopmental disorders," says Marie McCormick, M.D., Sc.D., chairwoman of the immunization safety committee and a professor at the Harvard School of Public Health.

The committee revisited these issues because several studies exploring possible links between vaccines and autism have been published since 2001. Committee members concluded that the hypothesis about how the MMR vaccine and thimerosal could trigger autism lacks supporting evidence. Their conclusions were based on a careful review of well-designed studies and other information from researchers and parents.

Five large studies in the United States, the United Kingdom, Denmark, and Sweden done since 2001 found no evidence of a link between autism and vaccines containing thimerosal. And 14 large studies consistently showed no link between the MMR vaccine and autism. The committee also reviewed several studies that did report associations between vaccines and autism and found that these studies had limitations and lacked supporting evidence.
The committee reviewed potential biological links between vaccines and autism and found them to be only theoretical. Examples of some of the hypothesized links include a suggestion that the measles virus in the MMR vaccine might lodge in the intestines and trigger the release of toxins that could lead to autism. Another hypothesis is that the MMR vaccine might stimulate the release of immune factors that damage the central nervous system. Yet another hypothesis is that thimerosal may interfere with biochemical systems in the brain, thereby causing autism. But according to the IOM report, no evidence has shown that the immune system or its activation play a direct role in causing autism, and autism has not been documented as being a result of exposure to high doses of mercury.

"There is no convincing evidence of serious harm from the low doses of thimerosal in vaccines," says Karen Midthun, M.D., deputy director for medicine in the FDA's Center for Biologics Evaluation and Research (CBER). CBER regulates vaccines in the United States and works with the CDC and the NIH to study and monitor vaccine safety and effectiveness.

Limiting Thimerosal Use
Since the 1930s, small amounts of thimerosal have been used as a preservative in multi-dose vials of vaccines to prevent bacterial contamination. The active ingredient in thimerosal is ethylmercury.

Even though the risk of thimerosal is hypothetical, thimerosal began to be removed from childhood vaccines in 1999. The federal government, the American Academy of Pediatrics, and others agreed that thimerosal should be reduced and eliminated in vaccines as a precautionary measure. The FDA encouraged companies to comply with this recommendation. Currently, all routinely recommended vaccines manufactured for infants in the United States are either thimerosal-free or contain only trace amounts.

"We moved in this direction to address public concern and because it was feasible to eliminate mercury from vaccines," Midthun says. "We could eliminate thimerosal in vaccines as a way to reduce a child's total exposure to mercury, whereas other environmental sources of exposure are more difficult to eliminate."

In its latest report, the IOM's immunization committee reported that it does not dispute that mercury-containing compounds, including thimerosal, can be damaging to the nervous system. But the committee did not find that these damaging effects are related to the development of autism.

For the 2004-2005 flu season, the CDC is recommending that children ages 6 months to 23 months get vaccinated annually against the flu (influenza) with the inactivated flu shot. "The influenza vaccine is available both with thimerosal as a preservative and without it," Midthun says. "But the benefits of flu vaccination outweigh any theoretical risk from thimerosal."

According to the CDC, the amount of flu vaccine without thimerosal as a preservative will increase as manufacturing capabilities expand. "To eliminate thimerosal as a preservative from flu vaccines, manufacturers will have to switch from multi-dose to single-dose preparations, which requires greater filling and storage capacity," Midthun says.

Based on federal guidelines on levels of mercury exposure, a child won't receive excessive mercury from vaccines, regardless of whether their inoculation against the flu contains thimerosal.

Recommendations
The IOM's immunization safety committee did not recommend any changes with the MMR vaccine or with the current schedule of routine childhood immunizations.

"While the committee strongly supports research that focuses on achieving a better understanding of autism, we recommend that future research be directed toward other lines of inquiry that are supported by current knowledge and evidence, and that offer more promise for finding an answer," McCormick said at a media briefing. "Given the current evidence, the vaccine hypothesis doesn't offer that promise."

The IOM is part of the National Academy of Sciences.


http://www.fda.gov/fdac/features/2004/504_iom.html
 
I was trying to bring it down to layman's terms.... what I was trying to get across is that epidemiology is NOT a comparison between kids that didn't receive the vax vs those that did... It is a study of the "science" behind the antibody and how they "THINK" it reacts in the body based upon basic science research and reviewing the existing studies available on the vaccine and antibody.

NO.

Epidemiology has nothing to do with "chemistry".

From Wikipedia:
Epidemiology
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Epidemiology is the study of factors affecting the health and illness of populations, and serves as the foundation and logic of interventions made in the interest of public health and preventive medicine. It is considered a cornerstone methodology of public health research, and is highly regarded in evidence-based medicine for identifying risk factors for disease and determining optimal treatment approaches to clinical practice.
 
Just to clarify... I'm not planning on NOT vaccinating at all. I'm just looking for which ones I feel are absolutely necessary for my son and possibly delaying and/or spacing them out.

Thank you!!! That's why I need to continue to research to compare the risk of the vaccine and the risk of the disease/virus itself. I appreciate you sharing your experience!!

OK. Now I get it.

Contradicting what you said in your opening post, you are NOT looking for unbiased, data-driven evidence, since you have already decided that you are delaying or spacing out - which, by the way, will often result in a subclinical response, and still leave your child suseptible to the disease.

If you listen to anectodal stories from people on an Internet discussion board over facts and data, then there is no point in my providing you with the best scientific data we have.

The link posted by ChrisnSteph is so true, and obviously occuring here.
Here's the link again: http://healthlink.mcw.edu/article/1029253486.html
This section, especially is clear from this thread:

People who are opposed to vaccination on principle – those with religious or philosophic objections – are unlikely to be influenced by scientific data. But the facts are so overwhelmingly in favor of vaccination that even skeptics are hard-pressed to refute them. Anti-vaccine groups tend to stress the same arguments repeatedly; many of these arguments use anecdotal support in place of real evidence to make their point.
 
It is an issue of access and nothing more, which disgusts me. Get 'em while they're in the hospital because you might not get 'em later. Seriously! That is the reason.:sad2: Obviously I believe receiving a vaccine at just a few hours old is dangerous, but even if I didn't, I wouldn't allow my NEWBORN to be injected with something that is supposed to prevent a sexually or drug-use transmitted disease!!!!:eek: Also, you have to realize that many (if not most) parents have no clue which vaccines are for what. They follow the recommended schedule and that is good enough for them. OR, they may know what it's for, but only in a one-sentence answer sorta way, which horrifies me but is good enough for most people. And they still have the right to make that decision to vaccinate, no matter how little they know...so I think it's CRAZY that many people don't want ME to make that decision when I know so much about it!:rotfl: Another observation: I know so much about it because I have researched this issue for many years (a decade!). I wanted to know the facts...not the factOIDS printed on those one-sheet informational pamphlets they pass out. Anyone who is smart enough to come online and DIS is capable of researching the issue in-depth. They might not come to the same conclusion I did--they might fully vax their kids, on schedule!!--but I can't help but think everyone would be better off with a little more information!:thumbsup2

I whole heartedly agree.

I didn't know what I do now and I would make a lot of choices differently then I did with my 1st 2. In fact if I ever have a 3rd child we will do the vax situation differently. We will be less aggressive with the schedule, only do one or 2 at a time and be selective in what ones are given. I might end up giving him or her all of them, but I will not allow any more shots just because it is what is recommended at that age.

I got suckered into given the Heb shot in the hospital. If I knew then what I do know I would have never done that. Just like you said TinkerbellMama, I didn't know what it was about and thought better to have it while in the hospital and monitored then at home. Get it over with so she didn't have to have so many later.

She seems no worse for the wear (other then food allergies to milk and eggs, no idea if there is a possible connection there or not.) Some of her shots were delayed because of her egg allergy, but she is up to date now.
 
Actually, there HAS been, not only in the US, but also in the UK, Denmark, and Sweden.

Five large studies in the United States, the United Kingdom, Denmark, and Sweden done since 2001 found no evidence of a link between autism and vaccines containing thimerosal. And 14 large studies consistently showed no link between the MMR vaccine and autism. The committee also reviewed several studies that did report associations between vaccines and autism and found that these studies had limitations and lacked supporting evidence.

The committee reviewed potential biological links between vaccines and autism and found them to be only theoretical. Examples of some of the hypothesized links include a suggestion that the measles virus in the MMR vaccine might lodge in the intestines and trigger the release of toxins that could lead to autism. Another hypothesis is that the MMR vaccine might stimulate the release of immune factors that damage the central nervous system. Yet another hypothesis is that thimerosal may interfere with biochemical systems in the brain, thereby causing autism. But according to the IOM report, no evidence has shown that the immune system or its activation play a direct role in causing autism, and autism has not been documented as being a result of exposure to high doses of mercury.

If you read this information carefully it NEVER says that they compared children that received the vax vs children that didn't. It just says that they were "large studies." The USA studies were literature comparisons... not ones w/ live patients. There never has been a large scale study comparing vaxed children w/ unvaxed children. I've been researching this for 7yrs now and it just hasn't happened yet. Yes there was a small study done in Denmark, but it wasn't done on a large scale and the US lifestyle, diet, prenatal care, childbirth, and healthcare system is VERY different than Denmark's so it is comparing apples to pears.

There has been a grass roots effort, after last year's articles looking at the lack of autism in the Amish community, to fund a large scale US study of this nature. One of the NY representatives from US Senate is trying to force the FDA/CDC to conduct this kind of study. I'm sure it will still be some time before it can be implemented.
 
OK. Now I get it.

Contradicting what you said in your opening post, you are NOT looking for unbiased, data-driven evidence, since you have already decided that you are delaying or spacing out - which, by the way, will often result in a subclinical response, and still leave your child suseptible to the disease.

If you listen to anectodal stories from people on an Internet discussion board over facts and data, then there is no point in my providing you with the best scientific data we have.

The link posted by ChrisnSteph is so true, and obviously occuring here.
Here's the link again: http://healthlink.mcw.edu/article/1029253486.html
This section, especially is clear from this thread:

People who are opposed to vaccination on principle – those with religious or philosophic objections – are unlikely to be influenced by scientific data. But the facts are so overwhelmingly in favor of vaccination that even skeptics are hard-pressed to refute them. Anti-vaccine groups tend to stress the same arguments repeatedly; many of these arguments use anecdotal support in place of real evidence to make their point.

hey, deb...in this instance it was anecdotal evidence TO vaccinate....;)

BTW, i,too, agree w/ChrisnSteph and above article
 
OK. Now I get it.

Contradicting what you said in your opening post, you are NOT looking for unbiased, data-driven evidence, since you have already decided that you are delaying or spacing out - which, by the way, will often result in a subclinical response, and still leave your child suseptible to the disease.

If you listen to anectodal stories from people on an Internet discussion board over facts and data, then there is no point in my providing you with the best scientific data we have.

The link posted by ChrisnSteph is so true, and obviously occuring here.
Here's the link again: http://healthlink.mcw.edu/article/1029253486.html
This section, especially is clear from this thread:

People who are opposed to vaccination on principle – those with religious or philosophic objections – are unlikely to be influenced by scientific data. But the facts are so overwhelmingly in favor of vaccination that even skeptics are hard-pressed to refute them. Anti-vaccine groups tend to stress the same arguments repeatedly; many of these arguments use anecdotal support in place of real evidence to make their point.

Hmmm... actually, if you read my post that YOU quoted, it clearly states that I do intend to vaccinate my son but I will not do it blindly and not on anyone else's schedule. I will take whatever research I can get.

And, the second quote you posted was actually using a personal account to look into getting a vaccine that I was originally not sure of.

So, I'm really not sure what your point is and I don't appreciate you being condescending :confused3
 
There has been a grass roots effort, after last year's articles looking at the lack of autism in the Amish community, to fund a large scale US study of this nature. One of the NY representatives from US Senate is trying to force the FDA/CDC to conduct this kind of study. I'm sure it will still be some time before it can be implemented.

Ok. I'm just thinking outloud here so bear with me. Aren't there A LOT of lifestyle differences between average Kid America and their Amish counterparts? I don't think you could possibly derive anything from comparing the two groups. First, no electronic media. Second, much more exercise. Third, no chemically preserved food. They're also a lot less likely to die in a car accidents... So, how can the fact these kids have a lower incidence of Autism be attributed to anything much less a lack of vaccines?
 
People who are opposed to vaccination on principle – those with religious or philosophic objections – are unlikely to be influenced by scientific data. But the facts are so overwhelmingly in favor of vaccination that even skeptics are hard-pressed to refute them. Anti-vaccine groups tend to stress the same arguments repeatedly; many of these arguments use anecdotal support in place of real evidence to make their point.
They also tend to rely on hypothetical scenarios that might confirm their beliefs.

But you are correct that the vast body of evidence overwhelmingly supports the idea of childhood vaccinations for the vast majority of children (less kids with known conditions like weakened immune systems), while other choose to ignore the science and cling to certain notions. The fact is that most scientists have moved on to other research into the the likely causes of conditions of things like autism. While childhood immunizations have hit a pretty firm dead-end as a cause, there have been several other promising findings related to things like genetics and the age of the father.

Ok. I'm just thinking outloud here so bear with me. Aren't there A LOT of lifestyle differences between average Kid America and their Amish counterparts? I don't think you could possibly derive anything from comparing the two groups.
Given that recent autism research has pointed to a very possible genetic cause, this might very well be at work here with the Amish. Due to centuries of marrying within their own community and having a common ancestry, the Amish have a very distinct gene pool from the rest of our citizens. For examples, there are life threatening genetic diseases such as "Maple Syrup Urine Disease" that are found in MUCH higher rates among Amish (and Mennonite) children than the rest of the population.
 
I'm not being condescending. And in response to not doing the vaccines "on anyone's schedule", recommended vaccine schedules and doses have been developed after large studies and measurements of immune responses to provide the optimal protection with minimal side effects.

To alter that schedule will risk suboptimal response (ie. lack of immunity), with twice the number of injections.
 
Ok. I'm just thinking outloud here so bear with me. Aren't there A LOT of lifestyle differences between average Kid America and their Amish counterparts? I don't think you could possibly derive anything from comparing the two groups. First, no electronic media. Second, much more exercise. Third, no chemically preserved food. They're also a lot less likely to die in a car accidents... So, how can the fact these kids have a lower incidence of Autism be attributed to anything much less a lack of vaccines?

I didn't say that the "non vaccinated" group in the study should be Amish. I'm just saying that the articles regarding the fact that the Amish have very few autistic children in their community has spurred people to START a large scale study.

Any well designed study would compare children in similar geographical areas w/ similar backgrounds as well as other variables.
 
If you read this information carefully it NEVER says that they compared children that received the vax vs children that didn't. It just says that they they were "large studies." The USA studies were literature comparisons... not ones w/ live patients. There never has been a large scale study comparing vaxed children w/ unvaxed children. I've been researching this for 7yrs now and it just hasn't happened yet. Yes there was a small study done in Denmark, but it wasn't done on a large scale and the US lifestyle, diet, prenatal care, childbirth, and healthcare system is VERY different than Denmark's so it is comparing apples to pears.

There has been a grass roots effort, after last year's articles looking at the lack of autism in the Amish community, to fund a large scale US study of this nature. One of the NY representatives from US Senate is trying to force the FDA/CDC to conduct this kind of study. I'm sure it will still be some time before it can be implemented.

So....here are a few issues w/this type of study...

1. There is no "blind" ability....parents that will be doing the daily reporting (or any required repoting) will be biased either for or against....The parent would get to choose whether their child/ren are in the vaccinate study group or the no vaccines study group...KWIM?
2. Because a blind study, if done, would have flaws....a true scientific study would need to use placebos....HOWEVER, it is bad medicine to do placebo vaccines, leaving children unprotected while their parents are not sure if they've had those vaccinations.
3. Many do believe that autism spectrum disorders are genetic, and caused by a plethora of genes. Because of the amount of intermarrying done among the Amish, they would not be a good study group. They are too homogenous, and not a good study group to represent the rest of our society.

I'm sure there are other reasons this wouldn't work, but I need to go grab lunch while my baby is happy :) ....


(thank god for whoopi on the view...she just said that you can't say vaccinations cause autism...jenny mcarthy is on)
 

New Posts


Disney Vacation Planning. Free. Done for You.
Our Authorized Disney Vacation Planners are here to provide personalized, expert advice, answer every question, and uncover the best discounts. Let Dreams Unlimited Travel take care of all the details, so you can sit back, relax, and enjoy a stress-free vacation.
Start Your Disney Vacation
Disney EarMarked Producer






DIS Facebook DIS youtube DIS Instagram DIS Pinterest DIS Tiktok DIS Twitter

Add as a preferred source on Google

Back
Top Bottom