UY and any Last Minute Suggestion on Direct Buy

[Vulnox]

Hi all,

We bought at Riviera back in February, but when everything shut down we cancelled on the last day to back out so we can see what happens with our jobs and that. Thankfully, we remained employed and are looking again. We seem pretty set on direct. I have gone back and forth on resale, but we really like the skyliner. A lot a lot. We used it quite a bit while staying at Caribbean Beach back in 2019. Since resale restrictions exist on RIV, and we want the option to stay elsewhere at times, we are basically just buying in enough now to cover our needs for RIV and will likely do resale elsewhere if we decide to get 11 month window somewhere else.

Anyway, we mainly seem to and plan to continue to travel in late November and possibly January/Feb on occasion. I thought that a December UY seemed best for us, as if we decide not to travel in NOV we can bank the previous years points for planning to use in Jan/Feb. But the UY thing, while simple in essence (it's the Month of the Year you get the next 12 month point supply), how that can help us or hurt us if we have to cancel a reservation and the points go in holding, or if we don't travel in November is it best to have a DEC UY, or do we want UY that is before our expected travel windows (like Sept/Oct)?

Thanks in advance for any tips on best UY, and also for anything else we should bring up when buying. I know we went through it once, but it's been a year so if anything new has come up I appreciate the tip. I know there are some issues with AP right now, restricted access at some resorts still, stuff like that. I have tried to keep up on things here. Our first travel wouldn't be until at least Nov this year depending on COVID situation, so hopefully most of that is cleared up.

 

[princesscinderella]

I would pick an Oct UY based on your travel patterns. September tends to be a slower travel month so if you have points that have gone into holding and you have to use before your UY is up Sept is easy to find a reservation. Oct-Dec is the busiest time so using points that have been placed into holding before you UY expires can be very difficult. Definitely do not pick Dec if you travel end of Nov as you would be completely stuck with points you can’t use if you had to cancel last minute.

 

[CarolMN]

If you travel a lot in late November, DO NOT GET A DECEMBER USE YEAR!!!!!! IF you cancel that trip, you will lose the points. Get August or September or October.

I don't think you quite understand use year. Check out this thread:

https://www.disboards.com/threads/understanding-use-year-updated-february-10-2021.1942668/

 

[Vulnox]

If you travel a lot in late November, DO NOT GET A DECEMBER USE YEAR!!!!!! IF you cancel that trip, you will lose the points. Get August or September or October.

I don't think you quite understand use year. Check out this thread:

https://www.disboards.com/threads/understanding-use-year-updated-february-10-2021.1942668/

Yeah I figured as much, that's why I am asking now. Thank you so much! I will also re-read the thread.

 

[Vulnox]

I would pick an Oct UY based on your travel patterns. September tends to be a slower travel month so if you have points that have gone into holding and you have to use before your UY is up Sept is easy to find a reservation. Oct-Dec is the busiest time so using points that have been placed into holding before you UY expires can be very difficult. Definitely do not pick Dec if you travel end of Nov as you would be completely stuck with points you can’t use if you had to cancel last minute.

Thanks so much for the quick and easy to understand explanation. That is exactly what I was looking for!

 

[RoseGold]

If you are set on buying direct, I would get a fixed week, even if you never plan to use it. Christmas, New Years, Thanksgiving, or Spring Break. You didn't tell us how many points you are buying, so hard to say what category would match those points.

These contracts have sometimes gone way up in value when the point charts change. There's no downside, you just don't use it if you don't want to.

I would at least be pricing these out.

 

[Vulnox]

If you are set on buying direct, I would get a fixed week, even if you never plan to use it. Christmas, New Years, Thanksgiving, or Spring Break. You didn't tell us how many points you are buying, so hard to say what category would match those points.

These contracts have sometimes gone way up in value when the point charts change. There's no downside, you just don't use it if you don't want to.

I would at least be pricing these out.

My understanding on fixed week was just the added cost, and direct is already pretty costly. We are targeting 175 points, were looking at 200, but it seems we can accomplish our goals with 175.

Sorry for leaving critical details like that out, more info is our plan is to do 1 bedrooms most visits, with 2 bedrooms when we have enough carryover unused points. My wife estimated that if point charts remain somewhat similar for our time period, like don't double or whatever per night, we would do a 1 bedroom in 2021, 2 bedroom 2022, 1 bedroom 2023, etc. We have friends we go to Disney with, but not every year, so this works out for us and they are willing to pay their portion in cash, which helps offset some of that direct cost while still allowing us to switch to AK some years or BLT or whatever. If point charts don't go our way, we should still be able to do 1 bedroom. We have two kids, so need to easily sleep four, and my mom wants to come sometimes too. Maybe fixed week would work for us as you said, but I feel like I spent a lot of time in that thread and didn't get the sense that with us not doing studios and with the requirement to hold enough point buffer to cover those changing point charts, 175 might not cut it.

If that's not the case, again appreciate that input. Doing my best to do the research but there are so many edge cases to these things.

 

[RoseGold]

My understanding on fixed week was just the added cost, and direct is already pretty costly. We are targeting 175 points, were looking at 200, but it seems we can accomplish our goals with 175.

Not added cost. The fixed week adds a percentage (10%? maybe 15%?) to the point cost, when you use it for the fixed week. Then, point cost stays the same on the FW. So, if Christmas doubles, your fixed week still works.

If you never plan on going on Christmas, you just don't use it, and it costs you nothing. You get the points back, plus the extra % points you paid for the FW. You use all the points like nothing happened.

I'd price out a studio (all categories) FW for Spring Break, Christmas, New Years. Buy the one that matches what points you were going to buy anyway. You just cancel the automatic Christmas booking, and you have all your points, like you never bought a FW. If I were buying this, I would try to get a Christmas or NY studio. RIV is already tight on studios, and all those locked down resale buyers aren't going to help.

 

[Vulnox]

Not added cost. The fixed week adds 15% to the point cost, when you use it for the fixed week. Then, point cost stays the same on the FW. So, if Christmas doubles, your fixed week still works.

If you never plan on going on Christmas, you just don't use it, and it costs you nothing. You get the points back, plus the extra 15% points you paid for the FW. You use all the points like nothing happened.

I'd price out a studio (all categories) FW for Spring Break, Christmas, New Years. Buy the one that matches what points you were going to buy anyway. You just cancel the automatic Christmas booking, and you have all your points, like you never bought a FW. If I were buying this, I would try to get a Christmas or NY studio. RIV is already tight on studios, and all those locked down resale buyers aren't going to help.

That seems fairly simple. We have some time before current round of incentives end, so I will revisit the FW thread and also do what you said on pricing out studios and probably 1BRs, and see what we would need.

Thank you again!

 

[RoseGold]

I think it's 10% premium maybe? I'd at least be getting concrete FW quotes from my guide.

 

[Vulnox]

True, doesn't hurt to ask. The company I work for has Christmas week and the following period up through NY off every year, so having that locked in might end up being a better proposition than I was initially considering, being so focused on November travel.

 

[Rileygirl]

Not added cost. The fixed week adds a percentage (10%? maybe 15%?) to the point cost, when you use it for the fixed week. Then, point cost stays the same on the FW. So, if Christmas doubles, your fixed week still works.

If you never plan on going on Christmas, you just don't use it, and it costs you nothing. You get the points back, plus the extra % points you paid for the FW. You use all the points like nothing happened.

I'd price out a studio (all categories) FW for Spring Break, Christmas, New Years. Buy the one that matches what points you were going to buy anyway. You just cancel the automatic Christmas booking, and you have all your points, like you never bought a FW. If I were buying this, I would try to get a Christmas or NY studio. RIV is already tight on studios, and all those locked down resale buyers aren't going to help.

This is really amazing advice. I did not think about it this way. Wow. Lightbulb on. Thanks

edited to add:getting a studio in the fall, or high season is very difficult and much in demand. One bedrooms are typically not. But this could make the resale of your RIV points be desired, if you ever need or want to get rid of them.....

 

[princesscinderella]

I agree with @RoseGold I think the only resale of RIV that will hold value vs just points allotment would be a Christmas or NY fixed week in a studio. Especially when more resale contracts come in to play down the line where they can only use their points at RIV. You at least always have a guaranteed use of your points.

 

[Vulnox]

So if we mainly plan to use at least one bedrooms, would we still go for a FW Studio? That's I think where this kind of fell of for me last time. It seems our chances of using a Studio would be somewhat lower, so we would just be carrying it over for resale value, or is that kind of your point?

 

[RoseGold]

I guess it depends on your goal and what you think the point values will do.

For resale, I’d want a studio, probably the cheapest one. I don’t see charts for studios at peak going anywhere but up.

The extremely expensive 1BR at RIV is one of my many issues with its chart. In some spots, it costs almost as much as 2BR. I might even go 2BR. But it’s not like there’s downside if you buy the 1BR and never use it.

If you’re buying into 1BR, RIV is a pretty painful way to do it.

 

[mdonald]

Not added cost. The fixed week adds a percentage (10%? maybe 15%?) to the point cost, when you use it for the fixed week. Then, point cost stays the same on the FW. So, if Christmas doubles, your fixed week still works.

If you never plan on going on Christmas, you just don't use it, and it costs you nothing. You get the points back, plus the extra % points you paid for the FW. You use all the points like nothing happened.

I'd price out a studio (all categories) FW for Spring Break, Christmas, New Years. Buy the one that matches what points you were going to buy anyway. You just cancel the automatic Christmas booking, and you have all your points, like you never bought a FW. If I were buying this, I would try to get a Christmas or NY studio. RIV is already tight on studios, and all those locked down resale buyers aren't going to help.

I didn't know fixed weeks were a thing. Doesn't that affect other owners though. With a resort already with low inventory on standard studios, does that take away from that inventory right off the bat? There are only 9 dedicated standard studios and 58 earmarked for lock-offs. Do they restrict the room types you can get fixed weeks for? Seems like uneven playing field for owners wanting already hard to get reservations at 11 months but then again, money always talks.

 

[RoseGold]

There are only 9 dedicated standard studios and 58 earmarked for lock-offs. Do they restrict the room types you can get fixed weeks for? Seems like uneven playing field for owners wanting already hard to get reservations at 11 months but then again, money always talks.

The master declaration shows how many of each unit they are allowed to sell FW. IIRC, it was 30 or 40% for VGF. So, once those are sold, they can’t sell more FW, even if they have the points. That means regular owners will always have most of the availability.

I haven’t seen it here, but I can imagine FW being valuable in ROFR, because Disney would want to sell with the FW premium and get that FW back in the system. There was a poster who used to post some stats on when the FW were recorded, and Disney has sold a lot of them at sold out resorts.

But yea, taking out 30 or 40% of the standard studios is meaningful.

Adding on the moving marathon weeks was interesting to me, I never saw real math on those because they don’t have them at VGF.

 

[Rileygirl]

This is going to be a long post, I apologize in advance.

I have been contemplating for a few weeks exactly how to approach the RIV. First off, I know many hate the point chart on this property, and don’t like the property itself. The added clunker of the resale restrictions have turned a lot of people off.

BTW, there is a fantastic thread on fixed weeks her on these boards, if this strategy is sounding appealing to you, I suggest you find that thread and take a good look at it.

For me, the RIV has many things that I love. I love the style and theming, and I love the excellent food opportunities here (my other two favresorts are GFL and AKL), I love the sky liner and the proximity to Epcot and Studios. I love the room layouts. But most of all, I love the contract length. So this property makes sense for me, as do GFL and AKL. But, I feel that the clock is ticking on RIV with discount incentives, and when people start really going back to Disney, I think this resort will sell out. So it’s number one on the hit list. Buying direct May also have other perks, but one that will always be there, I can use these points for future properties.

Ok, that’s the ground work.

So, let’s say you wanted to hit that 300 point incentive at the RIV, making the purchase price 176 ppp instead of 201 ppp. If you look at that point chart in the fixed week thread I mentioned before, you can get a fixed week studio preferred view for 163 points Per week during the very busy and most enjoyed fall time. (The fixed week point chart is different then the regular chart, it’s explained on that thread)

We actually tend to travel in early September, not late October/November but there is much higher demand for studios in the late fall. I tend to want to stay in a one bedroom or a two bedroom if all the family is going. I really won’t stay in a studio often. And I generally won’t go in late fall. Why then would I consider getting two studio fixed weeks in October? And I am seriously considering it.

1. RIV is a small resort, and studios, being point efficient as best it can be, are the most popular choice with DVCers. There are not a lot of studios compared to other DVC resorts. I think you will find ‘walker ninjas’ will make it impossible for even those that try to book at 11 months out to get a studio. Over the years, this problem is going to escalate, as resale buyers can ONLY book the RIV.

2. booking a one bedroom at the RIV will remain being relatively easy at the 11 month mark, in my opinion, unless it’s peak season. And we tend to travel at low season. So flipping the two studios into a longer one bedroom stay will be easy. And I will make it a longer stay. It will also allow me to stay in a two bedroom for a shorter period of time.

3. Here’s the kicker, if I ever want to rent points, I know I have a very marketable thing that is guaranteed 11 months out, and I can easily rent those weeks out without being a walking ninja. Probably for very good dollar. We won’t travel to Disney every year, so renting is a possibility. And as time passes, and more resellers are trying to book with their RIV only points, I still feel that the least desirable room is going to be a one bedroom, and I don’t think I’m going to have any issue booking it.

4. if I go to sell this contract, (or one of them) in ten years, I think I will be in a much better position than someone who does not have a GW in fall madness.

Before rosegolds comments above (which gave me an epiphany) I was contemplating getting two fixed week studios at the cheapest time first coup,e of weeks of September, when I normally travel, and then do a small add on contract to put me over the 300 mark.

But then I realized, if I intend to change the fixed week every time I use it, why not go for a much more marketable week, where the points push me over 300, so renting will be easier if needed, I think that’s the master plan. (Don’t want to have to buy Xmas or thanksgiving weeks, it will give me more points then I want, at least at this resort.)

I think a fixed week one bedroom at the RIV would be an absolute albatross to either rent or sell. (Sure, you could convert the GW into points and then rent them, but it will be ugly getting into the studio game, and will involve a lot of your tiime. And you are on equal footing as all the other savvy dvcers and rental companies).

ok, that’s my logic, if there are any huge holes in my theory, shoot me down please! I like to learn.

Edited to add
I think the RIVs point chart will look a whole lot more appealing after BCV AND BWV get gobbled back by Disney at the end of their term in 2042. Those walkable Epcot resorts are going to become so much more expensive when Disney reinvents them.

Also, Disney has some of the best, if notTHE BEST marketing team in the world. They have always strategized decades ahead of the curve compared to anyone else (imho). What other time share increases in value? The RIV resale may not be great in the next 10 years compared to buying direct,but I hope to be in the long haul with these points. When BCV and BWV only have a couple years left of life, and food and wine people want a great resting spot, I think you will see RIV do just as well as any other premier DVC resort.

 

[RoseGold]

Here’s the kicker, if I ever want to rent points, I know I have a very marketable thing that is guaranteed 11 months out, and I can easily rent those weeks out without being a walking ninja

Buying to rent is a bad idea, especially RIV, which I don’t think anyone has ever paid rack rate for. Poly has wings of buildings with cash buyers paying $800/night.

If your goal is food, long contact, two studios and renting points, I’d go poly.

If your goal is 2BR, I’d really do the math against the BLT chart.

I do agree the fall/Christmas charts in general have nowhere to go but up, and that studios are undervalued at RIV — but there’s a lot I don’t like in the RIV chart. I wouldn’t be making five figure bets on the RIV chart, unless I were buying the points anyway. FW wasn’t my strategy, but it always seemed like a no brainer to me for people already buying direct.

And i don’t think the cheapest time to travel FW is a bad plan, if you plan to keep using it. If it goes up enough, you get free points!

Its worth noting you can buy a FW resale. The board sponsor has a option to search for them. That might be the best of both worlds. They have a Christmas poly contract right now.

And LOL at RIV selling out. RIV is huge. As of January, they’ve only declared (able to sell) 43%. And there’s nothing coming, so they will be dragging around RIV for a long time, maybe hiking up the price to keep it from selling out.

 

[CarolMN]

3. Here’s the kicker, if I ever want to rent points, I know I have a very marketable thing that is guaranteed 11 months out, and I can easily rent those weeks out without being a walking ninja. Probably for very good dollar. We won’t travel to Disney every year, so renting is a possibility. And as time passes, and more resellers are trying to book with their RIV only points, I still feel that the least desirable room is going to be a one bedroom, and I don’t think I’m going to have any issue booking it.

You may not have a problem renting your fixed week. But keep in mind that you won't be able to use the DIS to do it. Curreǹt Rent/Trade rules do NOT allow you to rent fixed weeks. You'd have to cancel it and offer the points for rent or transfer.