Using DDP knowing you won't get value?

[Nancyg56]

Actually, if you're smart enough to do the math, it is just meal prices. I don't know why you are so intent on running down the dining plans. As I've already stated, it doesn't work for our family as we don't eat that way. I even showed how much we save and how we get even more value paying OOP. But just to show YOU that saving money is possible with the DDP, I ran the numbers for my family eating the way the plan dictates. I even subbed out some drinks for snacks for QS since we prefer water. Can't do that with TS, but found things we could drink. DH and I can always do coffee, but it's not really our practice. For my family of 4 Disney adults, with a 5-night stay, we could easily save $185. For families with kids, they are going to save even more. Here are the restaurants I picked:

It is meal prices, dining preferences, and family dynamics, which is why there is no "winning" answer.

Are you suggesting you just use the meal price for a 2 point signature restaurant without adjusting for the extra point?

Not one of you can show your work. It all mysteriously disappeared into the ether, I suppose.

Actually, I have chosen not to humor you. I cannot speak for anyone else.You seem fixated on this and for some reason you feel the need to "be right". The problem with that attitude is that it chases off people who would normally want to share tactics, hints, or their own reasoning for whatever their chooses are. It also can be a huge disservice to those folks who come here for help and are told in certain terms that the DDP's are losers, or that free dining is not the best discount. The truth is that unless you know all of their facts, there are no hard and fast "rules."

To be very honest, I have never felt singled out on the DIS before, and am pretty surprised that this of all subjects, is the one that after about 12 years of posting, is the one that hit. I have never suggested to anyone that the DDP or the DxDDP is the best choice for their family, or that it is an automatic loser because there are so many factors that can skew the value. Not once have you asked me the ages of our group, how many folks we travel with, how we like to dine, or how we break up the plans we choose, when we do choose them, yet you have made condescending comments to me and about me. The reason why most of us suggest that folks do their own math is because dining is personal. It has been over a year since my last big family trip and on that trip we booked just about every character meal there was for the little girls with traveled with us, using a combo if DxDDP and DDP, both with decent and different discounts at the Grand.

The math was pretty darn easy, and when you plan your next trip I bet you can manage it on your own. There is no mystery. If you want me to do YOUR math for you, share the restaurants you booked on your next trip, how you eat, the ages of your group, how many in your group, where you are staying as well as the discounts available for the time frame. Include if you will be ordering dessert and beverages, and the preferences of all of you. Add if there are children under 9 who will want to order off of the adult menu, and if they are beef eaters. If you are going to choose CS restaurants in the trip, tell me which ones you normally go to, if your family will all order their own meal, and if there are kids...adult or children's menu. If I stumble in the math, there are plenty of others here on the thread who will also run your numbers for you.

 

[Nancyg56]

I am happy it works for your style of touring and allows you to try new experiences while also saving you money that can be spent on another meal! Those flower and garden booths have many items ≥$5 so those snack credits can also add to some of your savings

I love the Starbucks Venti option for a snack credit. My DD and I generally get on in every park.

 

[Ratzo]

I had mentioned that I was originally not going to do the plan for the first part of our trip, but once I moved some things around, we are going to about break even. Keep in mind, we will absolutely get mugs whether we use the dining plan or not, I left one CS off because we may or may not use it, and used $4 for snacks since we use some for waters.
...
Mugs $ 54.28
...
Savings $ 30.42

Called it:

You definitely saved money since you get the refillable mugs that can only be refilled in the resorts and not the parks every trip. Kudos for providing details.

 

[Ratzo]

Actually, I have chosen not to humor you. I cannot speak for anyone else.You seem fixated on this and for some reason you feel the need to "be right". The problem with that attitude is that it chases off people who would normally want to share tactics, hints, or their own reasoning for whatever their chooses are. It also can be a huge disservice to those folks who come here for help and are told in certain terms that the DDP's are losers, or that free dining is not the best discount. The truth is that unless you know all of their facts, there are no hard and fast "rules."

I have no desire to "be right." I want to save money on my trip. I hope that I'm wrong. Disney dining is expensive. You made a claim. All I asked was for some evidence. That's it. Others have provided it, but you have not. I don't know why you are so defensive and afraid to reveal your calculations that you already claimed you did. The onus is on you, not me, to show how it yielded you a benefit.

Hitchens's razor: "What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence." That's all I have to say on this topic.

 

[Nancyg56]

Hitchens's razor: "What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence." That's all I have to say on this topic.

Consider me dismissed.

 

[senadler]

Called it:

You definitely saved money since you get the refillable mugs that can only be refilled in the resorts and not the parks every trip. Kudos for providing details.

We spend half a day at the resort nearly everyday, so it makes sense for us to have the mugs. We also use them for the kids at home. Also note I did not count one counter service because we are doing the Star Wars Tour that include a meal. We may still use it which be another $40 or so. What I was really saying is you don't necessarily lose money.

 

[robinb]

Actually, if you're smart enough to do the math, it is just meal prices. I don't know why you are so intent on running down the dining plans. As I've already stated, it doesn't work for our family as we don't eat that way. I even showed how much we save and how we get even more value paying OOP. But just to show YOU that saving money is possible with the DDP, I ran the numbers for my family eating the way the plan dictates. I even subbed out some drinks for snacks for QS since we prefer water. Can't do that with TS, but found things we could drink. DH and I can always do coffee, but it's not really our practice. For my family of 4 Disney adults, with a 5-night stay, we could easily save $185. For families with kids, they are going to save even more. Here are the restaurants I picked:

Flame Tree lunch
Akershus dinner
50s Prime Time lunch or dinner
Backlot Express lunch or dinner
Akershus lunch
Sunshine Seasons dinner
Columbia Harbor House lunch
Crystal Palace dinner
WPE lunch
Ohana dinner

I don't see how you're saving $185. I calculated the average entree price at each of your QS restaurants and then the current AYCE price for the TS restaurants and I get a total of $65.01 per person. the DDP is $67.33.

Type Restaurant Entrée Drink Sub-Tot Tax Total
Q Backlot Express lunch or dinner $10.84 $3.69 $14.53 $0.94 $15.47
Q Columbia Harbor House lunch $11.99 $3.69 $15.68 $1.02 $16.70
Q Flame Tree lunch $13.77 $3.69 $17.46 $1.13 $18.59
Q Sunshine Seasons dinner $11.53 $3.69 $15.22 $0.99 $16.21
Q WPE lunch $14.25 $3.69 $17.94 $1.17 $19.11
T 50s Prime Time lunch or dinner $20.00 $3.69 $23.69 $1.54 $25.23
T Akershus dinner $57.61 $57.51
T Akershus lunch $57.61 $57.51
T Crystal Palace dinner $47.93 $47.93
T Ohana dinner $45.80 $45.80
S 2-per-day $8

Total per person = $320.06
Total per day = $65.01

 

[robinb]

To answer the OP, no I would never get the DDP if I wasn't going to at least break even WITHOUT the refillable mug. I am the only one who uses a mug in our family so 2/3 of the price is wasted.

I'm always baffled how the self proclaimed "frugal" people pay more for the DDP just to trick themselves into "allowing" them to eat whatever they want. It just seems counterintuitive to me to actually pay more because you don't want to pay more ...

That being said, I've heard that reason plenty of times on the DIS.

 

[Faldred]

(Rant mode: ON)

This is directed at no one in particular, just a kind of general response to a lot of different things said in this thread, as well as a host of others.

1) “Value” is entirely subjective; it is based on what a person perceives they are getting for what it costs them.

2) “Costs” are often financial (i.e., prices), but there are other costs: time, flexibility, risks, convenience, etc.

3) “Price” is objective. You can compare two prices head-to-head without context.

So, knowing what we can or can’t quantify, what makes something a “good value” when talking about the Disney Dining Plan? The best definition for that is if the value gotten from the plan, when compared to its costs, provides an enhancement to the overall vacation experience that represents a good trade-off to the buyer.

Note that a lot of arguments for or against using the dining plans don’t really factor in the overall experience. For example the “I can eat cheaper without the plan” may be true, but I could also eat cheaper than OOP if I packed PB&J sandwiches or PowerBars and snagged free ice water from the CS locations. Is my vacation experience the same if I pack lunch instead of restaurant food? No, even though I saved money doing it. Is packing my lunch a better value? That’s totally subjective, to be frank - do I value the cost savings over convenience and the experience of some of the more unique dining options?

Even the idea of “I wouldn’t normally eat like that” begs the question of why you wouldn’t - for some it might simply be too much food, for others, it’s a splurge. For the latter group, is the option to splurge outside of your norms something that enhances your vacation experience, and if so, is that enhancement worth the costs?

On the flip side, someone who likes the DDP for “convenience” or "peace of mind" may or may not be factoring in all of the costs - what happens if one or more members of the party gets sick and you’re stuck with a bunch of extra credits that you paid for? (Even with “free dining”, there’s a cost for that in that you cannot apply other potential discounts to your package.)

In short, there’s a lot to consider when weighing the whole “good value” proposition. And there’s enough subjectivity involved that your opinions and personal experience are likely not going to reach the same exact conclusion as someone else’s will. It’s still important to share these thoughts and experiences, because hopefully we can all learn from each other and get a better understanding of our own valuation, but always with the understanding that someone else may very well reach a different conclusion.

(Rant mode: OFF)

 

[Ratzo]

I agree with most of what you said. However...

Note that a lot of arguments for or against using the dining plans don’t really factor in the overall experience. For example the “I can eat cheaper without the plan” may be true, but I could also eat cheaper than OOP if I packed PB&J sandwiches or PowerBars and snagged free ice water from the CS locations. Is my vacation experience the same if I pack lunch instead of restaurant food? No, even though I saved money doing it. Is packing my lunch a better value? That’s totally subjective, to be frank - do I value the cost savings over convenience and the experience of some of the more unique dining options?

The point we're trying to make is that you DON'T have to alter your dining plans to pay OOP. You DON'T have to settle for cheaper menu items to save money paying OOP. We welcome a completely apples-to-apples cost comparison. The only thing the DDP does is provide a psychological trick that benefits Disney, not the consumer. On the other hand, you DO have to limit your dining choices to even hope to break-even using the dining plan.

 

[MaryLovesPoohBear]

We spend half a day at the resort nearly everyday, so it makes sense for us to have the mugs. We also use them for the kids at home. Also note I did not count one counter service because we are doing the Star Wars Tour that include a meal. We may still use it which be another $40 or so. What I was really saying is you don't necessarily lose money.

Oh, no no no. You can't spend that much time at the resort. YOU are spending money to be at the parks, you HAVE to be at the parks.

Of course, we are in the same boat. We spend plenty of time at the resort. We didn't purchase the dining plan on our last trip, but we still purchased the refillable mugs. We generally go back to the resort for an afternoon nap. Our child is an adult, but I have lupus and I can't spend all day at a park. And we are soda drinkers. At least we are when we are on vacation.

 

[Faldred]

I agree with most of what you said. However...



The point we're trying to make is that you DON'T have to alter your dining plans to pay OOP. You DON'T have to settle for cheaper menu items to save money paying OOP. We welcome a completely apples-to-apples cost comparison. The only thing the DDP does is provide a psychological trick that benefits Disney, not the consumer. On the other hand, you DO have to limit your dining choices to even hope to break-even using the dining plan.

I'm all for price comparisons. I disagree with some of your blanket assumptions about DDP though; in fact it's quite easy to be cost-efficient under certain circumstances, which generally boil down to one of a) DxDP users, b) people getting free dining packages at value or moderate resorts with 3-4 people per room, and/or c) families with at least as many children age 3-9 as there are 10+ in the party. And I'm more than happy to help people do the math to figure out the "price" portion of the equation.

But cost efficiency isn't the whole kit and kaboodle. There's a reason my first question to someone asking about whether DDP is right for them is "do any of the DDP packages reasonably match the way you want to eat on vacation?" - if the answer is "no", then there's no point continuing. No amount of math is going to make the difference there.

 

[MrInfinity]

We are! I have no idea if we will come out ahead, break even or lose money. Didn't even bother to try to figure it out.

Also, as I quickly learned on this board last time I discussed something like this:
Don't bother to try to explain why you chose the dining plan, people who don't like it won't understand and you may even be lucky enough to get a few (very thinly) veiled insults thrown your way! And they will really go to town if you use the word "convenience".

So true! It amazes me how much people lash out at each other over things like the DDP. Somebody you don't know shows up and says they liked the DDP, and the reply is unanimously "that was stupid, you wasted money" before ever knowing the mix of their party or where they chose to eat. It's portrayed so negatively.

It's just a tool. If it works for you, use it. We used it a lot back when we had little kids and were doing character meals. We used it because it was cheaper, convenient, and fun. But we were doing restaurants like Akershus, Chef Mickeys, and the Biergarten back then. Things that are expensive for kids but cheap on the DDP.

And then where we did have menu-service, we would apply the points strategically. If we order a steak and a salad, we'd pay 1/2 points and 1/2 cash... then share the dessert and soda that you get on the DDP. It's the best of both worlds, and you get the choice of applying them in the most economically beneficial way.

The appetizer argument is terrible. If you want an appetizer, you're going to pay for it OOP or on the DDP, so it's not relevant.

Anyways. I've done spreadsheets galore, and the DDP will save you money every time you use it. J/K. It's definitely dependent on the mix of your family, where you eat and what you like. If your group has more Disney-kids than Disney-adults, you're spending half your points at fixed price entertainment meals, and some of you like more expensive foods like surf & turf, then the DDP will likely save you money.

This is purely financially speaking, and ignoring the less tangible benefits of ease, comfort, vacation, etc. Which in themselves are a good reason to use the DDP. There are so many benefits to enjoy.

I've also noticed that the more we go to WDW, the fewer character meals we tend to do. As most people on the Dis have gone a million times, they're thinking about how they travel, now... once you've been there done that, you tend to not look for the Akershus any more. You've seen the show at the Biergarten. You don't think it's fun to go fill your mug any more. But for a kid, the freedom to walk over to Captain Cooks and fill up your mug is a really fun thing! Adults skip that as wasteful to factor into the DDP value cuz you'd never buy that. Well, that's you Think like a kid on vacation who gets a kick out of filling his mug and it's different. You have to remember the people who are asking questions are at a different place in their Disney life than those who have gone a million times and skip some things.

EDIT: The new option to sub a snack for the drink is a really useful customer-friendly benefit.

 

[sharonabe]

I don't see how you're saving $185. I calculated the average entree price at each of your QS restaurants

Exactly. You calculated the average price whereas I went to the menus and actually "ordered" what we would probably eat. Subbing out drinks for snack items at many places definitely gets us more value as well. And I also added the tax. Please remember, we would never eat this way, but there are those who do, so to give a better picture, here's what we would eat for that $185 savings:

Flame Tree: 4 combo plates, 2 onion rings, 2 fries, (no drinks) $100.11
Backlot Express: Caprese salad, burger, nuggets, chicken salad, 2 cupcakes 2 drinks $63.90
Sunshine Seasons: Fish tacos, Cuban, turkey sand, Rotisserie chicken, 2 fruit/cheese plates, 2 cakes $76.68
Columbia Harbor: Broccoli salad, tuna sand, shrimp plate, fish/chicken, 2 chili, french fry, apple crisp $68.59
WPE: Rotisserie chicken, Alfredo, chicken tenders, chicken sand, 4 drinks $73.49
50s Prime: 2 Samples, 2 Pork chops, 2 apple crisps, 1 choc cake, 1 upside down cake, 2 shakes, 2 coffees $152.30
Tusker House dinner $47.93 x 4 $191.72
Aker lunch $57.51 x 4 $230.04
CP dinner $47.93 x 4 $191.72
Ohana dinner $45.80 x 4 $183.20

I valued the snacks at $5 each, but will use your $4 each $160

Grand total is $1491.75
Cost of DDP for 4 for 5 nights is $1346.60

So we still save $145.15

I did NOT include the mugs which have little value to us other than a souvenir.

 

[smiths02]

I have only done this once. We were traveling with the in-laws and it was easier to just bite the bullet with the cost upfront instead of deciding who paid what for each meal or separate checks or what not or having my MIL and FIL not want to eat because of seeing the prices. (Even then I had to convince my FIL to use snack credits instead of paying cash for a Mickey bar)

ETA: I don't know if we actually lost money (we were 4 adults, but this was also in 2009 when the odds were more in our favor for saving money), I just didn't worry about it other than making sure we used all our credits.

 

[Dina]

I am thinking about it just to have things paid ahead of time and not having to think about it. No I don't have the time to sit and figure out how to maximize,e it etc....I want to eat what I want to eat not will get me the best bang for my buck...It's vacation

 

[Ratzo]

I'm all for price comparisons. I disagree with some of your blanket assumptions about DDP though; in fact it's quite easy to be cost-efficient under certain circumstances, which generally boil down to one of a) DxDP users, b) people getting free dining packages at value or moderate resorts with 3-4 people per room, and/or c) families with at least as many children age 3-9 as there are 10+ in the party. And I'm more than happy to help people do the math to figure out the "price" portion of the equation.

You're actually agreeing with me. People have said in this thread that it's simply a matter of adding up meal costs. It is not! The fact so many people who claim they saved money cannot see this is a red flag that they probably didn't know what they were doing. This is why you have to show your work. People will take their advice thinking it's a good deal, but they won't have the same view of what's valuable.

But cost efficiency isn't the whole kit and kaboodle. There's a reason my first question to someone asking about whether DDP is right for them is "do any of the DDP packages reasonably match the way you want to eat on vacation?" - if the answer is "no", then there's no point continuing. No amount of math is going to make the difference there.

Success requires precise planning and a lot of luck. Don't mistake an ideal case under perfect conditions for reality. One tummy-ache leading to a skipped TS meal puts the dining plan in the red. Spending your last hour at Disney scrambling around gift shops for snacks that might survive the trip home just to get all your credits is not something people include in their plans, but it happens way too often even to the best of us. Why subject yourself to this nonsense?

 

[eeyoresmom]

It may be nonsense to you but that doesn't mean it is to others. On the rare occasions I do get a ddp I easily use all snack credits so using them up to bring home isn't an issue for me. I read a review where the poster said having a few weeks worth of Mickey rice krispie treats at home actually extended the magic of a very enjoyable vacation. I don't think I personally would have that reaction but I can't judge what is valuable to someone else. Also your remark that one tummy ache puts the dining plan in the red is also not across the board correct. In my situation if someone or even everyone has a tummy ache we have 2 days without ANY ts meals planned to use those credits.

 

[DisBuckMan]

In my situation if someone or even everyone has a tummy ache we have 2 days without ANY ts meals planned to use those credits.

Unless you ALWAYS leave the last day open, this is not foolproof. It can also lead to a less-than-desirable place to eat, depending on where you can get in to eat on short notice, just to burn a TS credit. The problem is compounded if multiple people are sick for multiple days.

 

[senadler]

You're actually agreeing with me. People have said in this thread that it's simply a matter of adding up meal costs. It is not! The fact so many people who claim they saved money cannot see this is a red flag that they probably didn't know what they were doing. This is why you have to show your work. People will take their advice thinking it's a good deal, but they won't have the same view of what's valuable.

I did show my work on the first half of the trip when I basically break even or save a little. The second half of the trip we will be on the deluxe plan, doing a few character meals, a 2 TS meal, using kids credits for adults we are sharing with, and yes again getting those darn mugs for the extra people joining us for this portion. They are actually joining us for two days without any park time, some having the mugs at the resort makes sense for us. We are getting the plan for 4 (2 adults/2children) and for sharing credits with another 3 adults.

While I am not posting the details, I did the same analysis on this portion of the trip as my first half, and we will save $525 over OOP costs. I do not figure the most expensive entrees, not everyone gets an app or desert, although in most cases we tend to order that way at TS. We have 5 AYCTE meals, some character, some not, and we do not eat CS at all. I still keep the snacks at $4, and I still have 2 credits left that we may end up using or not.

You are certainly correct that not everyone can save money on the plan, and some do probably end up paying more than OOP. But there are certainly some that can save significantly and many others that could break even or save a little. Your assessment that if I think I will save money I don't know what I'm doing is ridiculous. We travel to Disney about once a year, often do the dining plan (although TIW works better if we can use it over two trips especially with a larger group), and have also successfully shared credits with family over our last two trips.