*** Updated to add spring break Data*** New Data, FP+ impacting wait times, discuss

[Shaden]

HAHA Really? I have been twice with FP+. No complaints other than the amount we are given and even that isn't that big a deal.
Other than that one meal. You may not be typical but for people who are going to stay in the park the $$$ amount will go up.

Except we have many many reports that FP+ is making people spend LESS time in the parks.

Disney itself noted that it could accommodate an extra 3000 people in MK during the Christmas vacation, because people are cycling out of the park faster ... now this is great for 3 or 4 days over Christmas where Disney can sell more tickets, but the other 362 days a year, it means people staying in the parks less time, and spending less money.

 

[OtherScott]

Another sentence that has no meaning. What physical asset are you talking about and how does giving a person the ability to cut the (non-existent) line at Captain EO manage that asset? The $1.5B was spent to integrate many systems through Magic Bands. But FP stands outside of MB usage for 60% of guests (and anyone else who opts out of using them). So, yes, if you are staying off site and using hard plastic admission cards, then FP is standing alone, fully functional for that guest and not interconnected with the rest of what Disney has implemented. '

Is this all I can expect Jimmy? Taking one sentence from the latest post and pretending that nothing that preceded was ever offered?

If you think FP+ in its current form and function is the end result of Disney's grand plan, no anonymous schmoe like me is going to talk you out of it.

 

[Shaden]

And back to the original thread topic: increased standby wait times.

There is NO way for Disney to spin increased wait times ANYWHERE as a win, if they can't say it's due to double digit park attendance increases.

Average wait times mean diddly squat. Not just to "superusers" but to ANY consumer. Let's say you're one of the supposedly clueless masses that never used or understood legacy FastPass. You come to Magic Kingdom in July 2012 and you see 120+ minute waits for Space Mountain, Slash Mountain and Big Thunder Mountain. Well, that's frustrating because you don't want to wait two hours but, hey, look over there, it's Pirates or Haunted Mansion--'Hey, I've heard of these and 10-15 minute wait? That sounds awesome.'

Even arriving late with zero planning you could conceivably walk around Disney World on a July afternoon and go on way more than three rides with less than 30 minutes wait for each (usually people's tolerance limit: 25 sounds so much better than 35). Maybe they weren't the really big ones, but after you waited in several really short lines (>10 minutes) maybe you decided that waiting in one really long line was worth it after all.

Now you're that same person seeing the same two hour waits at headliners, but when you walk away from those you also see 30-minute plus waits on the "little" rides, too. Double bummer. And you're staying offsite so you even waited in ANOTHER 30-minute to get your FastPass+ selections and they're all for secondary rides, too. Won't it feel great to jump into the "FastPass" line for Disney Philharmagic and wait the exact same amount of time as those without your "special entry band?" (Or any ride that has a standby line shorter than the one you stood in to GET the FastPasses in the first place?)

Which sounds like a better guest experience?

And throw out experience altogether, it's simply bad press for Disney to report ANY increase in lines without the requisite increase in attendance to balance it out. It's one thing to say, 'The lines are longer because our attendance is up 10%. Yay!' It's another to say, 'Sure some lines are longer but our new special app means a few lines may be shorter for you, but only if there's availability, and the app works and you booked ahead of time and we can't guarantee which rides those are, or that there's room for your whole party or ...'

Thank you for bringing it back to the original point. And I have to agree.

While Fuzzy has tried to make some arguments suggesting the average wait time will still be the same, because more people will be skipping lines (though this doesn't really account for the "virtual people" and their impact on lines and ride demand.

Your overall assessment is great. Even if someone walks in and does FP 3 rides, if for the other three rides they are waiting in double or triple the SB lines they would have before, even if over all the average wait time didn't change, the OPTICS of the wait times would, and this will make people less happy, not more.

 

[Shaden]

Will you even allow this system to be fully implemented before demanding results? This began in a staggered fashion in the 4th quarter of the calendar year.

This "began" like 2 years ago ....

 

[DougEMG]

This "began" well over two years ago. To continue to refer to it as a test is a marketing cop-out.

It's also a very good excuse to give to your shareholders when you can't demonstrate any increase in profits due to MM and FP+. After all once it is in production it will have to start delivering results to justify its huge expenditure.

 

[OtherScott]

It's also a very good excuse to give to your shareholders when you can't demonstrate any increase in profits due to MM and FP+. After all once it is in production it will have to start delivering results to justify its huge expenditure.

FP+ was operational 2 years ago?

 

[flicx]

You know I have posed this question multiple times and would love to hear some sort of answer that makes sense about this whole 1.5 billion dollar upgrade. Beyond what is available now what else will all this technology bring about? Anything else for the customer. Quite frankly at the rate technology advances I'm not so sure that in 10 years much of this will be outdated and way overpriced. I sure would like to know if anyone has a clue of what comes next or is everyone just speculating?

 

[Shaden]

This "began" well over two years ago. To continue to refer to it as a test is a marketing cop-out.

3 FP's, one park, once per attraction, tiers. Those fundamental components have not changed. The only change is how many guests are being included and when.

What is primarily being gauged now is guest reaction.

Crap I totally missed this post, but, clearly I agree.

Really, I just wish people who want to jump up to defend FP+ would actually have a clue, and some knowledge about what they are talking about.

Its one thing to recognize how the system works and say "hey, it works for the way I tour", that's great, I can see how it works for you.

But we have been hearing from the start from people who take offense to being called Disney apologists that "FP- wasn't going away, that there would be no tiers, that this would be an onsite Disney perk - no offsiters, that only people who haven't experienced FP+ don't like it, that this would dramatically decrease wait times, that Disney wasn't attempting to squeeze more money out of people - but to offer people a better experience, etc etc etc ... "

Despite the fact that if we read what DISNEY has said, if you read the patent, if you open your eyes to the reports here, and if you actually LOOK at Josh's statistical analysis (which doesn't even count FP return waits) ...

 

[OtherScott]

You know I have posed this question multiple times and would love to hear some sort of answer that makes sense about this whole 1.5 billion dollar upgrade. Beyond what is available now what else will all this technology bring about? Anything else for the customer. Quite frankly at the rate technology advances I'm not so sure that in 10 years much of this will be outdated and way overpriced. I sure would like to know if anyone has a clue of what comes next or is everyone just speculating?

Google...it's out there and in more detail than anyone can provide.

 

[OtherScott]

Crap I totally missed this post, but, clearly I agree. Really, I just wish people who want to jump up to defend FP+ would actually have a clue, and some knowledge about what they are talking about. Its one thing to recognize how the system works and say "hey, it works for the way I tour", that's great, I can see how it works for you. But we have been hearing from the start from people who take offense to being called Disney apologists that "FP- wasn't going away, that there would be no tiers, that this would be an onsite Disney perk - no offsiters, that only people who haven't experienced FP+ don't like it, that this would dramatically decrease wait times, that Disney wasn't attempting to squeeze more money out of people - but to offer people a better experience, etc etc etc ... " Despite the fact that if we read what DISNEY has said, if you read the patent, if you open your eyes to the reports here, and if you actually LOOK at Josh's statistical analysis (which doesn't even count FP return waits) ...

Except it hasn't been effect for 2 years, or even 1. And for the bulk of the time it's been operational, it's been operating alongside legacy FP...and for a substantial part of this period, it hasn't included all guests, all parks, or all attractions...

But yeah, get the jury in

 

[Mandy91]

3 rides and we are out.....That has been our experience at MK since FP+ has been "rolled" out. We are local so we only get to visit on weekends. Rides we used to never wait more than 15 minutes for now have 45+ minute waits. So until our passes expire when we go we will ride our three and leave. No meals, no gift shops, and little fun.

I'm local too and love to go and ride the attractions that typically have short waits (HM, PotC, etc.) and last time I went the line for HM was stretching through Frontierland. Let's not forget the FP queue BEFORE the queue either. They actually had queues set up outside the attractions to wait in line to scan your MagicBand. I've never seen so many lines before and I go a lot lol.

 

[flicx]

Google...it's out there and in more detail than anyone can provide.

Please enlighten me, what's the big secret or surprise that I am not seeing?

 

[Mad Hattered]

Except it hasn't been effect for 2 years, or even 1. And for the bulk of the time it's been operational, it's been operating alongside legacy FP...and for a substantial part of this period, it hasn't included all guests, all parks, or all attractions...

But yeah, get the jury in

Yeah...and look at it's track record so far. Just think how GRAND it will be once everyone is tied into it.

 

[flicx]

I'm local too and love to go and ride the attractions that typically have short waits (HM, PotC, etc.) and last time I went the line for HM was stretching through Frontierland. Let's not forget the FP queue BEFORE the queue either. They actually had queues set up outside the attractions to wait in line to scan your MagicBand. I've never seen so many lines before and I go a lot lol.

Sounds soooo magical!!!

 

[OtherScott]

Please enlighten me, what's the big secret or surprise that I am not seeing?

No secrets, no surprise, and probably not much that would persuade the unpersuadable...trolling's more fun, though

 

[Angel Ariel]

Except it hasn't been effect for 2 years, or even 1. And for the bulk of the time it's been operational, it's been operating alongside legacy FP...and for a substantial part of this period, it hasn't included all guests, all parks, or all attractions...

But yeah, get the jury in

Pretty sure that the previous posters were referring to the overall MM+/NextGen project, not just FP+...RFID technology is a big cornerstone of MM+, and WDW began implementing that in 2011 when they began switching over the turnstile technology.

ETA: I could be wrong, but that's how I read their posts.

 

[rastuso]

For the record, the beginning of FP+ was when return times started being enforced! which was the first massive downgrade of Fastpass.

Jason

 

[OtherScott]

Yeah...and look at it's track record so far. Just think how GRAND it will be once everyone is tied into it.

Sorry, it's hard to keep up with having to entertain passionate arguments in one thread about how the jury's back and FP+ is guilty and equally passionate arguments in another that guest's satisfaction is illegitimate because we haven't had time to properly evaluate the system...

So, what track record? Yours an Jimmy's, or Some guy named Jason?

 

[OtherScott]

Pretty sure that the previous posters were referring to the overall MM+/NextGen project, not just FP+...RFID technology is a big cornerstone of MM+, and WDW began implementing that in 2011 when they began switching over the turnstile technology. ETA: I could be wrong, but that's how I read their posts.

Fair enough

 

[flicx]

No secrets, no surprise, and probably not much that would persuade the unpersuadable...trolling's more fun, though

I asked a legitimate question. Whats next? What does the system have to offer that hasn't been seen? So I guess basically this is it? How is this trolling? These seem like reasonable questions. Maybe someone else will have an answer for me. Anyone please?