*** Updated to add spring break Data*** New Data, FP+ impacting wait times, discuss

[2Tiggies]

Apparently, you gain a lot if you wander into the park after 3:00 pm and only want to ride three rides and enjoy a parade and fireworks. That is where the big payoff lies. Disney is encouraging us to spend a lot of half days in the parks.

And with us, they have succeeded. We re-worked our entire schedule doing just that. We are also spending a whole lot of time exploring offsite activities this year - something we have never done in our years of visiting.

 

[Planogirl]

Apparently, you gain a lot if you wander into the park after 3:00 pm and only want to ride three rides and enjoy a parade and fireworks. That is where the big payoff lies. Disney is encouraging us to spend a lot of half days in the parks.

That is one aspect of this that doesn't bother us.

We've gotten weird looks but it's not unusual for us to spend the day at a Universal park or elsewhere and go to a Disney park at night. If Disney wants people to only go for part of the day, they should love us.

 

[Laketravis]

Apparently, you gain a lot if you wander into the park after 3:00 pm and only want to ride three rides and enjoy a parade and fireworks. That is where the big payoff lies. Disney is encouraging us to spend a lot of half days in the parks.

Yup.

It really isn't any more complicated than that. Increase daily guest turnover and force demand to spread equally over all attractions.

Moooooooo..............

 

[Davey Jones II]

I guess that frees up capacity. Much easier than building a ton of new attractions.

$1.5 billion would have bought a ton of new attractions. And no one would be complaining about that.

But Disney showed us their priorities by going for data mining and higher merch sales (they hope).

 

[FlipHipster]

Apparently, you gain a lot if you wander into the park after 3:00 pm and only want to ride three rides and enjoy a parade and fireworks. That is where the big payoff lies. Disney is encouraging us to spend a lot of half days in the parks.

Exactly!! We definitely spent less time at DHS this year. Booked our FP for the afternoon and showed up for a late lunch. Without Osborne Lights it would have been < 1/2 a day. If they open up offsite booking consider the family that wants to *gasp* visit the park that shall not be named. You could stay onsite, get FOTL passes AND still book FP+ for your Disney days. Sleep in, hang out by the pool or do 1/2 the other park and 1/2 WDW. Best of both worlds.

More FP and park hopping would probably solve this though if they can make it happen.

I guess that frees up capacity. Much easier than building a ton of new attractions.

I was going there earlier in the process. Sounds borderline nefarious.
But honestly I can't imagine Disney wants to drive anyone out of the parks, superuser, one timer, lifer whatever. Especially if you aren't trying to control where they go when they leave. Someone outside the gates is doing you no good unless you can keep them onsite. Guests inside the parks represent opportunity. They just have to figure out how to get those people out of lines.

Not sure I see the hook though. The opportunity to shop has always been there, yet those dang guests keep getting in line to ride rides. Even when those lines are really, really, really long. Maybe one day you will get a txt that says, spend $50 at Mouse Gears in the next 20 mins and get a FP for Soarin'. Spend $100 and one for TT as well. That might do it.

And yes it should be and is pretty interesting to see it unfold.

 

[Shaden]

They do. Therein lies the breakdown. Many think they're in the 80 and Disney should be creating a system for them, yet are actually in the 20. Everyone out here "supporting" you and going "you're right man, I just went and it sucked I got on so much less than before -- you're not in the minority here" really *is* in the minority.

Think about it. The reason you get on so much less is cuz Disney is having the other 80% go ahead of you by handing them FP's they never used before.

Don't know what else to add. This thread has degraded to "FP+ sucks". Oh well.

I really don't think it has "degraded" to anything, actually I think the conversations in here are pretty awesome.

As for the 80/20 rule. I don't think you understand it.

The 80/20 rule is that 20% of clients account for 80% of revenue.

Now, I am not sure what the ratio is, but I am relatively sure that that there is a portion of Disney guests, who account for a larger portion of Disney revenue than their "portion". Ie: 10 or 20 or 30% of return guests account for 20, 30, 40% of Disney revenue.

That's why it is so important to make sure these guests are happy, and these guests are likely the guests "in the know" and those who would be most upset about FP+ ...

 

[Shaden]

Agreed. Any many of us in the 80% really don't mind the 20% complaining because FP+ has much more to offer than it's current form even for us 80%.

Simply dropping FP and going back to FP- would be bad for us 80%, but that seems like a sailed ship. So the only option for WDW is expansion (or charging) IMO and getting this running the way it was designed.

Plus I think FP- would just have the same rules applied anyway now, tiers, one park and a FP- every 4 hours.

Really, you guys don't understand the 80/20 rule ... Its Called Pareto's Principle, you should google it.

 

[leebee]

The AVERAGE wait is the same... The average wait across all guests is unchanged.
Take these two number sets:

A) 10, 10, 10, 40, 40, 40, 50, 60, 60, 60 Total 380, Average 38
B) 30, 30, 30, 30, 30, 40, 40, 50, 50, 50 Total 380, Average 38

If those are wait times, and you are a park operator, and you can choose for every 10 guests to experience Set A or Set B, which would you choose?

A) First 3 ppl averaged 10 min. Last 7 ppl averaged 50 min.
B) First 3 ppl averaged 30 min. Last 7 ppl averaged 41 min.

You are looking at averaged numbers, but overall averages aren't the experiences that are shared by the Average Joe who goes home and tells his friends about his Disney trip. The actual, individual experiences are what make up the "word of mouth" advertising that encourages so many "new" visitors.

Look at the data for each group A and B in FuzzyLogicLLC's post. 30% of the people in group A go home and say, "It was amazing. We hardly waited in line at all!" The other 70% are saying, "We had to wait over half an hour (or an hour) just to get on a ride!" In group B, they are all complaining about having to wait over half an hour (yes, I know 30 mins IS a half-hour but you know how people remember it!). Nobody in either group is going home excited about only having an average wait time of 38 minutes, because individuals don't experience the overall wait time- they only experience what THEY perceive. At least in group A, 30% of the people had an amazing time; in group B, 100% are grumbling about long lines.

Even when you compare cross-set data, guest's perception will skew the averages. Looking at the last 7 in each group, I don't think it's going to matter if A waited 9 minutes longer than B; what's going to matter is that 70% of people in BOTH groups are going to remember that they waited well over half an hour (or even think of it as almost an hour, because although 40mins is closer to 30 than to 60, almost an hour is how it'll be remembered). Even looking at the first 3 wait times in both groups, only those with the 10 minute wait are going to think it was a "good deal;" those with a 30 minute wait are going to grumble, even if not vociferously complain… and in reality, those in the first 30% of group B waited three times longer than those in the first 30% of group A.

I think Disney is just looking at numbers, like fuzzylogicllc, and ignoring the psychological factor in all this, which could become a real problem. At least 30% of group A went home "happy"- which I put in quotes, because I think most guests go home happy; the question is whether the experience was a good-enough value for them to return, and to encourage their friends to go to Disney World. I'll always wonder if Disney should have put more effort into marketing Legacy FP (like they are now with FP+) AND building more headliners as a way to increase their bottom line, instead of instituting MM+/FP+ and pi$$ing off their 20%.

 

[jade1]

Apparently, you gain a lot if you wander into the park after 3:00 pm and only want to ride three rides and enjoy a parade and fireworks. That is where the big payoff lies. Disney is encouraging us to spend a lot of half days in the parks.

Although 12 hours is an actual 1/2 day.

 

[jade1]

Really, you guys don't understand the 80/20 rule ... Its Called Pareto's Principle, you should google it.

No I get it, it was just being used (80% of a company's complaints come from 20% of its customers) to show a percentage against FP+ can be loud enough to demand change-don't care if it's 50 50, 75 25, 60 40-keep complaining so they improve it even further for those of us already happy.

 

[2Tiggies]

No I get it, it was just being used (80% of a company's complaints come from 20% of its customers) to show a percentage against FP+ can be loud enough to demand change-don't care if it's 50 50, 75 25, 60 40-keep complaining so they improve it even further for those of us already happy.

Of course, those who don't speak, can't expect to be heard; those who do, can and will. I argue that a vocal 20% is just as powerful as the silent 80%

It does not take a majority to initiate change.

 

[jade1]

(80% of a company's complaints come from 20% of its customers) to show a percentage against FP+ can be loud enough to demand change-.

Of course, those who don't speak, can't expect to be heard; those who do, can and will. I argue that a vocal 20% is just as powerful as the silent 80%

It does not take a majority to initiate change.

No argument there, exact same.

 

[DougEMG]

Apparently, you gain a lot if you wander into the park after 3:00 pm and only want to ride three rides and enjoy a parade and fireworks. That is where the big payoff lies. Disney is encouraging us to spend a lot of half days in the parks.

It does seem like that is what they are doing. What will be interesting to see is will that kind of person be a repeat visitor. Personally I think the tickets are too over priced to make that kind of park visit of any value to me.

I've got 4 weeks booked for Sept so i'll have plenty of changes to put FP+ to use. If all the secondary rides have 20+ minute waits I'll have to serious evaluate if it is worth the time and money to go to WDW.

 

[bcrook]

It does seem like that is what they are doing. What will be interesting to see is will that kind of person be a repeat visitor. Personally I think the tickets are too over priced to make that kind of park visit of any value to me.

I've got 4 weeks booked for Sept so i'll have plenty of changes to put FP+ to use. If all the secondary rides have 20+ minute waits I'll have to serious evaluate if it is worth the time and money to go to WDW.

Hopefully for you, September won't be a problem. It could be great at that time. But I agree overall, I am not sure 4-5 hours is worth full admission.

 

[Laketravis]

Hopefully for you, September won't be a problem. It could be great at that time. But I agree overall, I am not sure 4-5 hours is worth full admission.

I think it could be if you park hop and take in 2-3 parks per day for a total of 12 hours or more; for example one park for what is still a rope-drop advantage (depending on how long THAT will last), one for mid-day FP+, and another for evening dinner/parade/fireworks/entertainment.

But then, that may not be a touring strategy for the majority.

 

[Mad Hattered]

Although 12 hours is an actual 1/2 day.

Yeah. Remember when Disney used to stay open until 3am with EMHs?! Those were the days.

 

[jade1]

Yeah. Remember when Disney used to stay open until 3am with EMHs?! Those were the days.

Yea' although I think MK was Sunday.

 

[I M Fearless]

Instead of having rides exiting into the shops like on POTC and Splash...

Maybe they should just build all the lines for the rides so that they snake through shops for most of their length.

That way guests would have to visit shops while they wait to board rides!

 

[mom2rtk]

Instead of having rides exiting into the shops like on POTC and Splash...

Maybe they should just build all the lines for the rides so that they snake through shops for most of their length.

That way guests would have to visit shops while they wait to board rides!

This may be just the perfect solution!

And maybe they can offer concierge snack and drink service. Pop onto the app, select and purchase what you want......... and Disney delivers your order to where they track your magic band.

Yes, the possibilities are endless..........

 

[2Tiggies]

Yea' although I think MK was Sunday.

And on a Friday as well during very busy times and the peak of summer. I miss the third hour on the evening EMH. That was the one hour that made it worth staying late. So they removed it. Go figure.