*** Updated to add spring break Data*** New Data, FP+ impacting wait times, discuss

[Planogirl]

That matters a ton. Because you got to go on significantly less, more other ppl got to go on a little more. It's not like the rides just started servicing fewer ppl. The same number of ppl are getting on the ride... it's just less you and more other ppl. It's a transition from a few ppl utilizing a big benefit to many ppl utilizing a smaller benefit.

I can't speak for the other DISer but I've never planned a vacation anywhere while at the same time wondering how my presence will affect others. I'm well-mannered and follow the rules and I do consider how much of a headache or not a destination is. If a place becomes less pleasurable that matters a great deal.

I still find it hard to believe that so many people were just blindly waiting in lines when they didn't have to. I seriously just don't get that all. The old system was not hard to figure out.

 

[WillAustin]

I can't speak for the other DISer but I've never planned a vacation anywhere while at the same time wondering how my presence will affect others. I'm well-mannered and follow the rules and I do consider how much of a headache or not a destination is. If a place becomes less pleasurable that matters a great deal.

Count me in on that. If my experience is significantly downgraded from past trips, I honestly couldn't care less if it's helping make others' better. Maybe if they were paying me to be there...

 

[Cyrano]

Folks this thread is slipping into arguements and egos are getting inflated.

This is a once only warning that the thread will be locked if the conversations do not stay respectful and relevant to this board.

Thank you for your support

 

[morethananyonex]

I don't care what kind of awful, immoral, sinful, person it makes me. I don't consider a system an improvement if my own experience is either kept the same or decreased. If you are happy to take a hit on your vacation experience so a family you've never met can have a better one, good for you.

I guess I don't see why people keep using that as a "gotcha" point. It's not news to me, and I assume it's not news to most of us. I really don't care if the collective experience is better, mines not.

 

[EMode]

Again - I just don't see that as a problem. Using a Fast Pass (virtual queue) for a ride you love and don't want to miss out on is part of the solution IMO.

I have never needed a FP for that ride, but now I do. I don't see that as a solution because now if I want to ride my favorite ride more than once (which I always do) I'll have to wait longer than I have ever before. Or if the other 4 people in my family really want FP+ for 3 other rides and I say okay because I want to ride with them then I'm stuck in longer SB lines each time I ride it.

FP+ may be a solution for some, but I never had a problem riding any rides multiple times without long waits using FP- so its a problem for me

I know this thread has moved past this, I had to run out earlier and I didn't want you to think I was avoiding your post.

 

[MrInfinity]

I still find it hard to believe that so many people were just blindly waiting in lines when they didn't have to. I seriously just don't get that all. The old system was not hard to figure out.

I know. It's really hard to grasp that most ppl would have toured so inefficiently. Yet. It's true. Most did not utilize FP-. They weren't interested, didn't care to dig in, didn't get beyond the awe of being at Disney World and just walked in, took pictures, and walked to a ride, or it just wasn't instinctive to them to first think...

"I shouldn't get in this line... I should go run across the park, grab a ticket, then cut in line to rejoin my family and I'll get to go on another ride right afterwards even tho many ppl will give me dirty looks as I do this. Then I should go on the internet and discover that several of the FP machines aren't linked, and I should run and grab one of those too. Then I should hoard these for later, since the times on them probably aren't even enforced and maybe I can pull more before I even use these"

Altho those kinds of thoughts are normal for you and I, they absolutely are not the way most ppl think while on vacation.

Now tho, the FP+'s are just there on your phone. Everyone has a phone or internet, MDE is easy to use and everyone plays w the app. It's just cool and fun and exciting. FP- wasn't to anyone but those out here who researched and mastered it. The market penetration w FP+ is so insanely better than with FP-.

 

[MrInfinity]

I don't care what kind of awful, immoral, sinful, person it makes me.

Come on none of us are immoral, sinful, or awful.

I don't consider a system an improvement if my own experience is either kept the same or decreased. If you are happy to take a hit on your vacation experience so a family you've never met can have a better one, good for you.

It's not an improvement for you. It's clearly worse for you.

But it's better for so many others. I know that's not a consolation, but that's the way it is. Disney is catering to the masses, not you and me.

 

[redrosesix]

Those are good points.

I'm sure the sytstem will and should be improved. Some of that stuff just needs to be worked thru. I have seen time and again where equipment tests out great in the lab and then when it's used in the field unforseen things happen. At some point you have to move from the testing phase to the transition phase. That's where I think we are right now.

I think the goal is to have the kinks worked out before more capacity comes on line at the two under-performing parks: AK and then DHS.

We'll see....

Yup, there were already issues with the POS scanners and resort room locks last year -- and that was using cards. And the cards seem to work better than the bands (just a swipe, not Mickey to Mickey). If, for example, one scanner out of a hundred has issues, that isn't a big deal when you're just trying the system out -- but in reality that would be 2500 door locks alone having issues. It's a huge, huge system and there isn't much room for error.

When I looked the other day, I think there were only 2 headliners that had shorter median waits. As I posted in a different thread, based on those numbers, waits for the headliners generally are still long, and the waits for secondary attractions are longer than they were before.

I'm not buying into the idea that because FP+ is spread among more people the median overall total wait in a day(FP+ or not) per rider is significantly less than before.

I'm not either, but if the system was working perfectly there would be a lot less waiting than there is now. But I also don't have much faith in them being able to perfect it. At best, I think they will guarantee that you ride some of your must-do's without waiting much more in total than you did before.

 

[Angel Ariel]

I know. It's really hard to grasp that most ppl would have toured so inefficiently. Yet. It's true. Most did not utilize FP-. They weren't interested, didn't care to dig in, didn't get beyond the awe of being at Disney World and just walked in, took pictures, and walked to a ride, or it just wasn't instinctive to them to first think...

"I shouldn't get in this line... I should go run across the park, grab a ticket, then cut in line to rejoin my family and I'll get to go on another ride right afterwards even tho many ppl will give me dirty looks as I do this. Then I should go on the internet and discover that several of the FP machines aren't linked, and I should run and grab one of those too. Then I should hoard these for later, since the times on them probably aren't even enforced and maybe I can pull more before I even use these"

Altho those kinds of thoughts are normal for you and I, they absolutely are not the way most ppl think while on vacation.

Now tho, the FP+'s are just there on your phone. Everyone has a phone or internet, MDE is easy to use and everyone plays w the app. It's just cool and fun and exciting. FP- wasn't to anyone but those out here who researched and mastered it. The market penetration w FP+ is so insanely better than with FP-.

I can't speak for anyone else, but that is in no way how we thought on vacation. We used fp and got 5-7/day, yes. We did not, however, have fp runners, have anyone cut in line to join family, etc. We didn't hoard fps til late in the day, either. We gathered them organically as we went through the park, and used them within their windows.

 

[Planogirl]

I know. It's really hard to grasp that most ppl would have toured so inefficiently. Yet. It's true. Most did not utilize FP-. They weren't interested, didn't care to dig in, didn't get beyond the awe of being at Disney World and just walked in, took pictures, and walked to a ride, or it just wasn't instinctive to them to first think...

"I shouldn't get in this line... I should go run across the park, grab a ticket, then cut in line to rejoin my family and I'll get to go on another ride right afterwards even tho many ppl will give me dirty looks as I do this. Then I should go on the internet and discover that several of the FP machines aren't linked, and I should run and grab one of those too. Then I should hoard these for later, since the times on them probably aren't even enforced and maybe I can pull more before I even use these"

Altho those kinds of thoughts are normal for you and I, they absolutely are not the way most ppl think while on vacation.

Now tho, the FP+'s are just there on your phone. Everyone has a phone or internet, MDE is easy to use and everyone plays w the app. It's just cool and fun and exciting. FP- wasn't to anyone but those out here who researched and mastered it. The market penetration w FP+ is so insanely better than with FP-.

I don't have the right kind of phone. That might be changing soon though.

As for the rest of your post, we always picked up fastpasses together and we returned during the window even when we didn't have to. It suited our touring style. But then we only grabbed four or five fastpasses most days at MK (3 is not and never will be enough!) and probably less at the other parks. I realize that many people went for more and in the interest of fairness maybe that should bother me. It doesn't though.

 

[EMode]

I can't speak for anyone else, but that is in no way how we thought on vacation. We used fp and got 5-7/day, yes. We did not, however, have fp runners, have anyone cut in line to join family, etc. We didn't hoard fps til late in the day, either. We gathered them organically as we went through the park, and used them within their windows.

Us too. We moved through the park together getting our FPs as we went along. We used them within the window and got another when we were allowed.

 

[morethananyonex]

Come on none of us are immoral, sinful, or awful.



It's not an improvement for you. It's clearly worse for you.

But it's better for so many others. I know that's not a consolation, but that's the way it is. Disney is catering to the masses, not you and me.

Sorry, I should have put some sort of smiley in that post. I don't think any of us are immoral, sinful or awful, rather that's what many of us have been called over the course of these FP+ discussions. Selfish for not caring about other people's vacations, greedy for wanting more than 3 FP+, entitled for wanting what we were getting before, etc. It's silly to me that people are getting crapped on for caring about their own experiences. Why wouldn't we? It's a resort we're paying to visit.

I get that it's better for others, and I get that's the way things are. I don't see anything wrong with that. Disney should cater to the masses, why wouldn't they? If this is truly better for them, I don't begrudge them for doing it. What I don't understand is why people (not you) think I should be happy with the system when my experience is lessened so that other people can have a better experience.

 

[redrosesix]

That matters a ton. Because you got to go on significantly less, more other ppl got to go on a little more. It's not like the rides just started servicing fewer ppl. The same number of ppl are getting on the ride... it's just less you and more other ppl. It's a transition from a few ppl utilizing a big benefit to many ppl utilizing a smaller benefit.

I don't think this is true... yet. It's the way the system is supposed to work, but it clearly isn't working properly. So right now I think more people are waiting longer. And doing less rides because there are only so many hours in the day.

 

[MrInfinity]

Sorry, I should have put some sort of smiley in that post. I don't think any of us are immoral, sinful or awful, rather that's what many of us have been called over the course of these FP+ discussions. Selfish for not caring about other people's vacations, greedy for wanting more than 3 FP+, entitled for wanting what we were getting before, etc. It's silly to me that people are getting crapped on for caring about their own experiences. Why wouldn't we? It's a resort we're paying to visit.

I get that it's better for others, and I get that's the way things are. I don't see anything wrong with that. Disney should cater to the masses, why wouldn't they? If this is truly better for them, I don't begrudge them for doing it. What I don't understand is why people (not you) think I should be happy with the system when my experience is lessened so that other people can have a better experience.

That's fair. We all care about our own experiences, and that's what matters. If you used to be a FP- optimizer, yes, FP+ is going to be worse for you. I know I will probably get on a few less rides than in past trips, but it doesn't bother me as much as it seems to bother others, cuz I really see what Disney is going for in this system, and I think it's ultimately good for them and it will lead to higher profits, more throughput in the parks, etc. And I acknowledge many other benefits like not splitting up as much, getting to use FP+ at evening parks, not having to criss-cross, getting to cherry pick my FP+ times, and so on. I see enough benefits in it that the one drawback of getting a few less rides is a wash to me, or even that I'm excited for FP+ being better than before. I'm still going to utilize Rope Drop, and I really don't see myself getting on all that much less.

 

[Angel Ariel]

That's fair. We all care about our own experiences, and that's what matters. If you used to be a FP- optimizer, yes, FP+ is going to be worse for you. I know I will probably get on a few less rides than in past trips, but it doesn't bother me as much as it seems to bother others, cuz I really see what Disney is going for in this system, and I think it's ultimately good for them and it will lead to higher profits, more throughput in the parks, etc. And I acknowledge many other benefits like not splitting up as much, getting to use FP+ at evening parks, not having to criss-cross, getting to cherry pick my FP+ times, and so on. I see enough benefits in it that the one drawback of getting a few less rides is a wash to me, or even that I'm excited for FP+ being better than before. I'm still going to utilize Rope Drop, and I really don't see myself getting on all that much less.

I see where it's going too, and IF Disney pulls it off, I will think "good for them." With their IT history, I'm not convinced they can handle the IT demands that system is going to have. I hope they prove me wrong.

As for the other benefits you acknowledge - I'm happy that those are benefits for you. We were able to "optimize" (for ourselves...certainly not completely optimal by any unbiased measure) our use of FP without splitting up. We didn't generally park hop to Epcot or DHS when we did park hop, so getting FPs in the evening was never an issue for us. There were always FPs available in the afternoon/evenings at AK and MK. So those particular things, while benefits for you, are things we were able to do with legacy FP too.

I do recognize the benefit of choosing FP+ all from one location (be it phone or kiosk), and getting to choose the times (though we also never had issues with FP times conflicting with ADRs, so that's not a huge benefit to us). I'm just not convinced that those few benefits will outweigh potentially getting to experience less. I'm open to FP+ proving me wrong in November. I truly hope it does. I'm just skeptical.

 

[2Tiggies]

I get that it's better for others, and I get that's the way things are. I don't see anything wrong with that. Disney should cater to the masses, why wouldn't they? If this is truly better for them, I don't begrudge them for doing it. What I don't understand is why people (not you) think I should be happy with the system when my experience is lessened so that other people can have a better experience.

I could not agree more!

 

[AndreaA]

I could not agree more!

Yeah, I don't get it. I should be happy that someone who slept in all morning is now able to waltz in at three and ride what they want? That people who don't do the smallest amount of research while planning their trips are now going to cause longer standby lines even early in the morning? I don't know about anyone else, but if I'm going to spend thousands and thousands of dollars for a vacation, then I'm going to plan and research and know what the heck I'm doing. If someone else chooses to spend that money and then wander around clueless, well frankly I don't have a whole lot of sympathy for them. For their kids, sure, but not for them.

We didn't even use fast passes on previous trips. Maybe 2-3 total for a family of four (as in I rode BTMRR and SM and my husband rode BTMRR), per trip? If that! But what we did do was get up early, make rope drop, ride everything when the lines were short and get the heck out when it got hotter, more crowded and our toddlers started to get cranky. See we didn't have the option to come back later at night - our kiddos needed to SLEEP. So now, from what I'm hearing, even making rope drop won't guarantee us 5-10min standby lines for things like Pooh, PeterPan, Speedway, Dumbo and Goofy's Barnstormer, because some Joe Schmos who don't know any better are going to have FP+ for 9-10am and cut us off in every line. Yippee.

 

[MrInfinity]

We didn't even use fast passes on previous trips. Maybe 2-3 total for a family of four (as in I rode BTMRR and SM and my husband rode BTMRR), per trip? If that! But what we did do was get up early, make rope drop, ride everything when the lines were short and get the heck out when it got hotter, more crowded and our toddlers started to get cranky. See we didn't have the option to come back later at night - our kiddos needed to SLEEP. So now, from what I'm hearing, even making rope drop won't guarantee us 5-10min standby lines for things like Pooh, PeterPan, Speedway, Dumbo and Goofy's Barnstormer, because some Joe Schmos who don't know any better are going to have FP+ for 9-10am and cut us off in every line. Yippee.

I don't think you'll see this ill effect. Rope drop is rope drop. Casual tourists that would rather come in at 10 or 11 are not going to be picking 9am slots, and power-tourers that want to rope drop at 9am are going to take midday slots and use the rope drop time standby. Thus, you have everyone pretty much wanting midday and early evening slots. If anything I think the longest standby lines will continue to be midday, and they might be longer than before, because so many ppl are going fastpass during this time. Getting there early to beat the crowds will still be just as useful as it always was.

Based on what you describe above, I think FP+ would work very well for you. You'll arrive early, ride quickly from 9-11, take FPs for 11, 12, and 1, and be out of there by 2.

 

[Shaden]

I don't think you'll see this ill effect. Rope drop is rope drop. Casual tourists that would rather come in at 10 or 11 are not going to be picking 9am slots, and power-tourers that want to rope drop at 9am are going to take midday slots and use the rope drop time standby. Thus, you have everyone pretty much wanting midday and early evening slots. If anything I think the longest standby lines will continue to be midday, and they might be longer than before, because so many ppl are going fastpass during this time. Getting there early to beat the crowds will still be just as useful as it always was.

Based on what you describe above, I think FP+ would work very well for you. You'll arrive early, ride quickly from 9-11, take FPs for 11, 12, and 1, and be out of there by 2.

There have already been several reports of significantly larger SB lines at a significantly earlier time.

 

[*disgal*]

I know. It's really hard to grasp that most ppl would have toured so inefficiently. Yet. It's true. Most did not utilize FP-. They weren't interested, didn't care to dig in, didn't get beyond the awe of being at Disney World and just walked in, took pictures, and walked to a ride, or it just wasn't instinctive to them to first think...

"I shouldn't get in this line... I should go run across the park, grab a ticket, then cut in line to rejoin my family and I'll get to go on another ride right afterwards even tho many ppl will give me dirty looks as I do this. Then I should go on the internet and discover that several of the FP machines aren't linked, and I should run and grab one of those too. Then I should hoard these for later, since the times on them probably aren't even enforced and maybe I can pull more before I even use these"

You forgot the part about how we give the sb line people the finger as we pass them in our fp lane. Because I pulled lots of fps that means that I....??, nevermind.

There have already been several reports of significantly larger SB lines at a significantly earlier time.

Yes, I thought I read that was because people could schedule a fp for park opening now. THat's true, right?