*** Updated to add spring break Data*** New Data, FP+ impacting wait times, discuss

[flicx]

Remember that when Disney says that most of their feedback has been positive.

We also need to remember Disney has already showed us an example of how they operate when it comes to feedback. They took down negative feedback on their facebook page. So I put little trust in a statement from Disney that most of their feedback has been positive!

 

[agavegirl1]

We also need to remember Disney has already showed us an example of how they operate when it comes to feedback. They took down negative feedback on their facebook page. So I put little trust in a statement from Disney that most of their feedback has been positive!

And, if their feedback has been so overwhelmingly positive, why the survey being sent out regarding changing FP+ to include more with day-of flexibility and the possibility of hopping and booking fewer than 3?

 

[DividedSky]

And, if their feedback has been so overwhelmingly positive, why the survey being sent out regarding changing FP+ to include more with day-of flexibility and the possibility of hopping and booking fewer than 3?

good question.

if the feedback for fp- was so positive, why did it get scrapped?

 

[Mad Hattered]

good question.

if the feedback for fp- was so positive, why did it get scrapped?

Do you REALLY want to go there?

 

[surferdave]

good question.

if the feedback for fp- was so positive, why did it get scrapped?

I've never wondered about that. It was an old system and probably major components were obsolete and couldn't be maintained without a design overhaul. FP+ (as a part of MDE) was selected rather than that overhaul.

 

[DividedSky]

Do you REALLY want to go there?

not with you I don't.

 

[mom2rtk]

major components were obsolete and couldn't be maintained without a design overhaul.

Isn't that what they said about the Lights of Winter?

 

[DividedSky]

I've never wondered about that. It was an old system and probably major components were obsolete and couldn't be maintained without a design overhaul. FP+ (as a part of MDE) was selected rather than that overhaul.

So the old system is changed because they were looking to improve on areas that need improvement, but the new survey is proof that the complaints vastly outnumber the positive responses.

Is that also your understanding? Before we look closer at the goal post this time, I want to make sure the goal post is going to stay in one spot.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Average observed wait times less in 2014. Reported wait times less in 2014.

But because a single point in time was worse for you personally, the entire system is horrific?

I’m not sure how to respond because I am not sure if your goal post is going to stay planted, or if you will keep moving it.

Instead, I’ll just remind everyone this entire thread is an analysis of reported wait times, but the minute I use those same times to prove presidents day wasn't worse, we start looking at a 30 minute window to evaluate the system.

It doesn't make the entire system horrific, no. But the point of Standby wait times increasing to normal "high" wait times earlier in the day is absolutely important to those who employ rope drop as a large part of their strategy.

It's been said a lot here, especially of the parks with tiers, to just arrive there at RD and do what you can't FP+ then, and that's part of what makes FP+ so awesome. Well, if RD becomes less effective of a strategy because lines are building earlier in the day than they did in the past, it would likely make FP+ a lot less awesome to a lot of people.

 

[redrosesix]

WOW
The facts that more people are using Fastpass overall combined with the data Josh provided that showed headliner STBY times are staying about the same while secondary attractions are seeing longer STBY times (due increase of FP use on secondary attractions) indicates the system is working as designed even if the Disney pro's like us aren't benefited by it.

This. It was in the literature for the original patent for FP+. It's what should be happening.

we were discussing presidents day weekend, so there is nothing funny about the dates, I compared a Saturday to a saturday.

And we were talking about the top attractions.

I guess you could fault me for leaving out splash mountain, but since it is closed, that would be a pretty silly critique as well.

We ie. the people discussing the report, were discussing the secondary attractions as well. That you could show wait times for Tier 1 rides went down is actually proving Josh's point, as per what Navy Dad posted -- it's the goal of the sytem. The fact that you showed that SB wait times for four Tier 1 rides doesn't refute the other data on SB times for rides throughout the park.

 

[agavegirl1]

Okay, are we on the same page?

I referred to Disney referencing an overwhelmingly positive response to FP+, then, shortly thereafter, soliciting feedback on major changes to the system.
The comment had nothing to do with FP- or it's obsolecence.

 

[redrosesix]

It doesn't make the entire system horrific, no. But the point of Standby wait times increasing to normal "high" wait times earlier in the day is absolutely important to those who employ rope drop as a large part of their strategy.

It's been said a lot here, especially of the parks with tiers, to just arrive there at RD and do what you can't FP+ then, and that's part of what makes FP+ so awesome. Well, if RD becomes less effective of a strategy because lines are building earlier in the day than they did in the past, it would likely make FP+ a lot less awesome to a lot of people.

I think RD is still an effective strategy, but you have to go in knowing that you're not going to have walk-ons, whether in FP return or SB, simply because you got in there at 9 am. It's about being able to realistically budget your time. Being off by 20 minutes per ride in SB could mean you're off by a whole hour by lunch time.

IMO it's better to budget for the max time you could be in SB and if you aren't there as long eg. if no FP holders showed up to ride, know what you would do to fill in that time -- like the treehouse in MK, Innoventions in Epcot, etc.

 

[Angel Ariel]

good question.

if the feedback for fp- was so positive, why did it get scrapped?

It was scrapped because they want the data mining of MM+, and FP+ gets guests to "buy into" that program more easily. FP+ was not the end goal of this 1 billion dollar effort - MM+ and the data they will get from it was.

 

[Angel Ariel]

I think RD is still an effective strategy, but you have to go in knowing that you're not going to have walk-ons, whether in FP return or SB, simply because you got in there at 9 am. It's about being able to realistically budget your time. Being off by 20 minutes per ride in SB could mean you're off by a whole hour by lunch time.

IMO it's better to budget for the max time you could be in SB and if you aren't there as long eg. if no FP holders showed up to ride, know what you would do to fill in that time -- like the treehouse in MK, Innoventions in Epcot, etc.

I'm not saying RD won't continue to be an effective strategy - it might, but there are definitely changes to that strategy (as you noted ).

But at this point, we also have offsite guests hitting FP+ kiosks right at RD, since they have no earlier access. If/when they get earlier access, it could very well change (again) how the lines are building at RD.

 

[DividedSky]

We ie. the people discussing the report, were discussing the secondary attractions as well.

we (not you, me and the person I was in an exchange with) were discussing this question:

if Disney is issuing more passes, why didn't the most popular rides see a huge increase in stand by waits?

 

[DividedSky]

It was scrapped because they want the data mining of MM+, and FP+ gets guests to "buy into" that program more easily. FP+ was not the end goal of this 1 billion dollar effort - MM+ and the data they will get from it was.

your opinion is duly noted.

 

[Angel Ariel]

we (not you, me and the person I was in an exchange with) were discussing this question:

if Disney is issuing more passes, why didn't the most popular rides see a huge increase in stand by waits?

And the person you were discussing that with already made it clear that he was referencing the total # of FPs available in the park (which has gone up, as the number of rides that use FP has increased), not the # of FPs available per ride.

This is one of the main goals of the system. Offer more FP+s to more secondary rides to help spread out the crowds away from the headliners - thus keeping the headliner lines similar (or even slightly lower), but increasing the waits for the secondary attractions. Basic crowd control...too many people at too few attractions...let's see what we can do to spread them out more.

 

[Angel Ariel]

your opinion is duly noted.

Just as it is your opinion that FP- was scrapped because of negative feedback.

You asked the question, I gave my answer. I figured it was a given it was an opinion, since Disney hasn't released any official reasoning. One opinion isn't any better than another

 

[agavegirl1]

MM+ including FP+ was patented as both an information gathering tool and a crowd management tool. Disney fully expected the system to pay for itself through higher per guest spending, efficiencies in staffing, and increased attendance due to "locking" guests into onsite plans.

 

[DividedSky]

And the person you were discussing that with already made it clear that he was referencing the total # of FPs available in the park (which has gone up, as the number of rides that use FP has increased), not the # of FPs available per ride.

and I apologized for not understanding his point.

you think this person will apologize for not understanding I was specifically talking about popular rides on presidents day when he accused me of cherry picking data due to an agenda?