Unsolicited school pictures that you have to pay for or return

[EMAW_KSU]

No joke!! I can't believe that anyone spends time worrying about such nonsense much less that they waste the time of local DA's and state AG's over it.

Worried enough about it to bump a four year old thread.

 

[bcla]

No joke!! I can't believe that anyone spends time worrying about such nonsense much less that they waste the time of local DA's and state AG's over it.

Because it's still illegal, and a lot of money is cumulatively made via seemingly small illegal actions. Would you be OK if the checkout scanners were programmed to charge slightly more than the tag price, with the hope of the seller that shoppers won't notice or don't know they have the right to have it checked? At least in my state, if there's an error at the checkout, it's illegal to charge more. Some retailers have policies that the product will be free if it rings up higher than the shelf tag (limit of one in most cases).

Consumer protection laws aren't trivial. If a company can't follow the law that's supposed to protect the public, they deserve every punishment they get. A lot of people are victimized through small transactions, but where they have no idea that they have someone who will intervene even if they can't afford their own attorney.

 

[undertheradar]

Because it's still illegal, and a lot of money is cumulatively made via seemingly small illegal actions. Would you be OK if the checkout scanners were programmed to charge slightly more than the tag price, with the hope of the seller that shoppers won't notice or don't know they have the right to have it checked? At least in my state, if there's an error at the checkout, it's illegal to charge more. Some retailers have policies that the product will be free if it rings up higher than the shelf tag (limit of one in most cases).

Consumer protection laws aren't trivial. If a company can't follow the law that's supposed to protect the public, they deserve every punishment they get. A lot of people are victimized through small transactions, but where they have no idea that they have someone who will intervene even if they can't afford their own attorney.

Don't you think it is a stretch comparing a school fundraiser to a for-profit corporation? Imagine the lineup for witness i.d.: Timmy, do you see the evil person who handed you the envelope of pictures? And 6 year old Timmy points to Mrs. Smith, his first grade teacher. Sentence: 6 months behind bars for passing along a PTA sponsored picture fundraiser envelope.

 

[*NikkiBell*]

This really has nothing to do with the school. The photo company, Lifetouch, does this, and it's their policy. This company does the majority of school photos throughout the country. I'd complain to them.

 

[bcla]

Don't you think it is a stretch comparing a school fundraiser to a for-profit corporation? Imagine the lineup for witness i.d.: Timmy, do you see the evil person who handed you the envelope of pictures? And 6 year old Timmy points to Mrs. Smith, his first grade teacher. Sentence: 6 months behind bars for passing along a PTA sponsored picture fundraiser envelope.

The law doesn't recognize the difference. There are supposed charities that send unsolicited return address labels all the time. Most follow the law and say that they can only solicit a voluntary donation. Some claim they have to be sent back.

If someone is going to do something, it's their responsibility to determine if they do so legally. I for one hate being beaten over the head for solicitations.

It would actually be pretty simple. If they want to collect, try small claims court.

Small claims judge: Did you secure an express written or oral agreement from Jimmy's parents that they would either pay for the photos or return them?

No. We didn't feel we had to.

The law says you must or it's considered an unsolicited gift. Case dismissed.

 

[undertheradar]

The law doesn't recognize the difference. There are supposed charities that send unsolicited return address labels all the time. Most follow the law and say that they can only solicit a voluntary donation. Some claim they have to be sent back.

If someone is going to do something, it's their responsibility to determine if they do so legally. I for one hate being beaten over the head for solicitations.

It would actually be pretty simple. If they want to collect, try small claims court.

Small claims judge: Did you secure an express written or oral agreement from Jimmy's parents that they would either pay for the photos or return them?

No. We didn't feel we had to.

The law says you must or it's considered an unsolicited gift. Case dismissed.

You are taking this way too seriously, which is exactly why the State of California is the train wreck that it is. Just the nearly 2 dozen warning stickers on the gasoline pump make it hard to take anything the State of California does seriously. Remember, 2 governors ago there was the bill in the state senate to place a warning label on Oreos.

Easiest solution for those who don't want the photos: send them back!

 

[nugov2]

Don't you think it is a stretch comparing a school fundraiser to a for-profit corporation? Imagine the lineup for witness i.d.: Timmy, do you see the evil person who handed you the envelope of pictures? And 6 year old Timmy points to Mrs. Smith, his first grade teacher. Sentence: 6 months behind bars for passing along a PTA sponsored picture fundraiser envelope.

I was just trying to raise money so the kids could have school supplies officer

I read the code the poster provided and I guarantee that the DA would still be laughing his/her butt off if they got a call about a school fundraiser. If that covers these fundraisers, then I bet the schools are not doing them in those states as the photographer would know the law.

You would hate my kids school...they actually send home notepads, pencils etc that you either buy or have to send back. Luckily we live in a community who supports their schools and our kids really benefit from it. I don't buy that stuff, but I do support other fundraisers. This is why they offer so many...some fit our needs, some don't. We have wonderful assemblies, family fun nights and tons of teacher grants get filled by our fundraisers each year. Our families help raise over 180,000(about 120,000 is for our district foundation and the other 40 is by the pta for the individual schools) for district schools each year for our kids. I wouldn't change a thing(even though I don't participate in them all). The things our kids have for resources and the experiences they get b/c of the fundraisers is well worth the 5 seconds it takes me to look at a picture(b/c they do that one too) or a packet of pencils and put it back in my child's folder is really no big deal. Our teachers also volunteer a lot of their own time b/c of the amazing grants they are able to get each year. It makes for a very close and supportive community

 

[bcla]

I was just trying to raise money so the kids could have school supplies officer

I read the code the poster provided and I guarantee that the DA would still be laughing his/her butt off if they got a call about a school fundraiser. If that covers these fundraisers, then I bet the schools are not doing them in those states as the photographer would know the law.

They have a business model that is dishonest and in many cases illegal according to state law. They are doing this all over in states that have unsolicited merchandise laws. Now I'm not quite sure that any DA or attorney general is going to expend a whole lot of effort prosecuting them for it, but I don't believe any court would rule in their favor if they tried to use the courts to collect for unsolicited photos.

I don't think a DA's office would blow it off or laugh it off. It's a matter of simply sending a cease and desist form letter that some low-paid staffer is going to compile. Now if they somehow sent "unpaid bills" to collection agencies (which I doubt) I could see a class action suit going their way if enough people talk about it.

As for Lifetouch......

http://eastcountytoday.net/lifetouc...-your-child-can-you-keep-them-without-paying/

There was a problem with this parents claimed they did not ask or give permission for the photographs to be taken. As the Mayor at Claycord pointed out today, you can technically keep these photographs free of charge as its deemed unsolicited and sent to you without your approval—it’s ultimately considered a “gift”.

Of course, this comes down to personal responsibility and sending back the photographs or encouraging your child not to participate in the spring photograph session. That being said, I am not sure why anyone would send back the photographs not knowing what the company will do with them (most likely dispose of them but how do we know?). As for the donation, if I want to donate to Orchard Park or the Antioch School District, I’ll just cut a check and do so.

This is a popular subject on both coasts:

http://www.fairfaxunderground.com/forum/read.php?2,248904,931031,page=2

When someone, unsolicited, takes pictures and then sends them to my house via my kids and demands payment - that is a scam. They are more than welcome to come by and pick them pictures, but I would not expend one second of effort to return something to them I never asked for or authorized.

http://www.mamapedia.com/article/advice-regarding-school-photos-being-harrassed-for-payment

My daughter's school uses lLifetouch for their school portraits. They take a Fall photo and a Spring photo. They sent a packet of photos home (unsolicited) after the Spring photo. We returned them to school, but it seems the school lost them and Lifetouch is harrassing us for payment of photos we never ordered. Any thoughts on how to handle this?

http://www.complaintsboard.com/comp...aphy-unsolicited-school-pictures-c606296.html

http://forum.freeadvice.com/consume...es-22/unsolicited-school-portraits-61174.html

An Open Letter to Lifetouch School Portraits
http://schmatjen.blogspot.com/2014/03/an-open-letter-to-lifetouch-school.html

In each unsolicited picture package, you also included a handy order form with instructions; I could either buy the whole exciting package for $47, or choose which of the enticing – yet, wholly unsolicited - sheets I so desire. Easy payment options abound for me, the proud parent, and if I found myself not wanting any one of the beautifully printed picture sheets, I was instructed to return them to the school.

That’s not going to happen.

I’m not going to send you any money, and I’m not going to send you any pictures back. Here are the reasons why:

Reason # 1: I’m not going to buy them because I didn’t want them in the first place. That is why I deliberately didn’t order them in the first place.

Reason #2: I’m not going to send them back to you because that would just cost me time, and I don’t have enough time each day as it is. (See evidence of the three children in question that you took unsolicited pictures of.)

Reason #3: Sending the pictures back would also cost my school time, and they have less time in the day than I do. (See evidence of all the children in the whole school that you took pictures of.) They eat lunch standing up in front of a copy machine, for goodness sake.

Reason #4: Sending them back will also cost you money. I know I am saving you quite a bit of money since you will no doubt need to treat these three unsolicited picture packets like any other incredibly precious returned product bound for secure destruction; hiring a secure courier service to transport them to a secure facility to have them shredded and destroyed, documenting their pick-up, transportation, arrival, and destruction at every step of the process.

 

[MSLRAC]

They have a business model that is dishonest and in many cases illegal according to state law. They are doing this all over in states that have unsolicited merchandise laws. Now I'm not quite sure that any DA or attorney general is going to expend a whole lot of effort prosecuting them for it, but I don't believe any court would rule in their favor if they tried to use the courts to collect for unsolicited photos.

I don't think a DA's office would blow it off or laugh it off. It's a matter of simply sending a cease and desist form letter that some low-paid staffer is going to compile. Now if they somehow sent "unpaid bills" to collection agencies (which I doubt) I could see a class action suit going their way if enough people talk about it.

As for Lifetouch......



This is a popular subject on both coasts:





http://www.complaintsboard.com/comp...aphy-unsolicited-school-pictures-c606296.html

http://forum.freeadvice.com/consume...es-22/unsolicited-school-portraits-61174.html

I see nothing at all dishonest about what Lifetouch is doing. They just did spring pictures for my kid's school. They sent home a flyer the week before so I knew they were going to do them. If your undies are in such a bunch over this, then why not call the school when the flyer goes out and tell them you don't want your kid's picture taken? Because honestly, if you keep the pictures and don't pay for them, I see that as stealing and you as a thief.

 

[nugov2]

Here is the blog you posted:



That’s not going to happen.

I’m not going to send you any money, and I’m not going to send you any pictures back. Here are the reasons why:

Reason # 1: I’m not going to buy them because I didn’t want them in the first place. That is why I deliberately didn’t order them in the first place.The school sends a note home that pictures are coming up on such and such date...write a note saying you do not want your child to participate.

Reason #2: I’m not going to send them back to you because that would just cost me time, and I don’t have enough time each day as it is. (See evidence of the three children in question that you took unsolicited pictures of.)
You don't have enough time to spend 5 seconds putting an envelope into a child's folder, but have time to complain on a blog
Reason #3: Sending the pictures back would also cost my school time, and they have less time in the day than I do. (See evidence of all the children in the whole school that you took pictures of.) They eat lunch standing up in front of a copy machine, for goodness sake.Pretty sure the school is OK spending their time sending it back as they allowed the photographer to come in and take photos. Maybe you should spend the time you spent complaining on a blog to go in and volunteer to help the people eating lunch in front of the copier if you care about their valuable time so much.

Reason #4: Sending them back will also cost you money. I know I am saving you quite a bit of money since you will no doubt need to treat these three unsolicited picture packets like any other incredibly precious returned product bound for secure destruction; hiring a secure courier service to transport them to a secure facility to have them shredded and destroyed, documenting their pick-up, transportation, arrival, and destruction at every step of the process.
I am sure they know the cost to them and stealing from them by not sending the pictures back is wrong no matter what you tell yourself. You can actually just shred them, you do not have to hire a company to do it. Any shredder will do as long as you do shred them. Unless that varies by state, but here you can shred documents yourself and dispose of them yourself. No company needs to be hired. The law only states they be properly destroyed...shredded and disposed of


I will say to you what I say to any other parents who complain about fundraisers...volunteer your time and come up with something better. Spend the time you use complaining to do something productive for your child's school. The school and parents who put these fundraisers out there have a lot of things better to do with their time, but they care about the faculty and kids and do it so they can have the best opportunities. Nobody is sitting in a room twisting their mustache trying to do all that they can to make the parents lives miserable

 

[Luvchefmic]

You are taking this way too seriously, which is exactly why the State of California is the train wreck that it is. Just the nearly 2 dozen warning stickers on the gasoline pump make it hard to take anything the State of California does seriously. Remember, 2 governors ago there was the bill in the state senate to place a warning label on Oreos.

Easiest solution for those who don't want the photos: send them back!

 

[akcire]

Ok. Clearly people get fired up about this issue.

My friends son does commercial catalogue work. He is contracted with a national agency that "controls" his image. At the beginning if the school year the parents send a letter to the school explaining that he can be photographed for an art project, but his image can not be used to promote the school any commercial enterprise or put on line. I know for a fact that they received a settlement after some issues regarding school pictures.

Now here's another question. Since the photographers business model involves using children to deliver the product are the children then agents or employees of the photographer? If not paid employees how is their labor accounted for and paid or are they I violation of labor laws?

Personally I'd just pay for or return what I did not want, but I find the unpaid child labor concept a more compelling argument.

 

[bcla]

Ok. Clearly people get fired up about this issue.

My friends son does commercial catalogue work. He is contracted with a national agency that "controls" his image. At the beginning if the school year the parents send a letter to the school explaining that he can be photographed for an art project, but his image can not be used to promote the school any commercial enterprise or put on line. I know for a fact that they received a settlement after some issues regarding school pictures.

Now here's another question. Since the photographers business model involves using children to deliver the product are the children then agents or employees of the photographer? If not paid employees how is their labor accounted for and paid or are they I violation of labor laws?

Personally I'd just pay for or return what I did not want, but I find the unpaid child labor concept a more compelling argument.

In a way, I'm just having fun with the arguments. However, I am serious that a parent receiving such an unsolicited packet would not be legally required to pay or return the photos in many states as a matter of law. It doesn't matter if something was sent. No contract, implied or otherwise is established simply by sending a notice via a child (who may never even deliver it).

 

[mom2rtk]

In a way, I'm just having fun with the arguments. However, I am serious that a parent receiving such an unsolicited packet would not be legally required to pay or return the photos in many states as a matter of law. It doesn't matter if something was sent. No contract, implied or otherwise is established simply by sending a notice via a child (who may never even deliver it).

I'm guessing the school has some sort of contract with the company though and would likely be penalized for the ones not returned (provided any of them even do this any more). And maybe the school could penalize the student in some way?

 

[bcla]

I'm guessing the school has some sort of contract with the company though and would likely be penalized for the ones not returned (provided any of them even do this any more). And maybe the school could penalize the student in some way?

A school doing so could open itself up to legal action. Schools know these things don't get returned. Penalizing a student would be a big can of worms they won't want to open.

Lifetouch gets some well deserved criticism for their business model.

 

[mom2rtk]

A school doing so could open itself up to legal action. Schools know these things don't get returned. Penalizing a student would be a big can of worms they won't want to open.

Lifetouch gets some well deserved criticism for their business model.

I'm curious.

Does anyone reading along actually still get an unsolicited package of finished pictures sent home any more?

Or are we arguing over something completely moot?

 

[alicat8]

I didn't read all the comments, but I'm a teacher and my school does this as a fundraiser and I find it infuriating. Such a waste of paper-i get so angry!!

 

[nugov2]

I'm curious.

Does anyone reading along actually still get an unsolicited package of finished pictures sent home any more?

Or are we arguing over something completely moot?

We still get them every spring. With a note telling us it is coming. Like I said before....we also get an unsolicited packet of paper, pencils and erasers that you either send back or purchase(if you keep) for $5. I personally don't like either so I send them both back, but our schools make a lot of money from them. I choose to participate in many of our fundraisers...I even spend a lot of my time helping, but those are not of interest to me. I take the 5 seconds per kid to stick it back in the folder and have lived to tell about it. If it is lost they will not hold you accountable...our school district assumes their parents are responsible, honest people and will send it back or pay...not keep it to try to stick it to the man or prove any other silly point.

 

[bcla]

I'm curious.

Does anyone reading along actually still get an unsolicited package of finished pictures sent home any more?

Or are we arguing over something completely moot?

One of the articles (or at least the article reprinted with permission in a blog) was dated April 9, 2013. Maybe not right now, but recent enough. It was actually a year older, but the publisher got tons of emails about it enough to issue an update a year later.

 

[MSLRAC]

A school doing so could open itself up to legal action. Schools know these things don't get returned. Penalizing a student would be a big can of worms they won't want to open.

Lifetouch gets some well deserved criticism for their business model.

My kid's old school would hold report cards and not allow kids to go on the last field trips of the year if the packets weren't returned.

I'm curious.

Does anyone reading along actually still get an unsolicited package of finished pictures sent home any more?

Or are we arguing over something completely moot?

Yep, my kids brought them home a couple of weeks ago. We bought the laminate page from each and sent the rest back. For yearbook pictures, we just get proofs sent home and can order from there.