Universal In, Disney Out.

[whiporee]

I just found everything about US crowded beyond description. I got there an hour before opening and the ticket line was huge. We hurried over to HP and not only were the lines long -- not only did they cram as many people into Olivanders so we could barely move -- the streets were crowded. You couldn't move very much. We waited 45 minutes for the Hippogriff ride, drank some butterbeer, bought our wands and were done. Everything about the place just felt small and tight. WDW feels like you've got room to breathe.

The other thing is -- and this is subjective, I know, but it feels a lot more transient, a lot more "right now" to me. The reason the Little Mermaid took 30 years to get built -- at least in my opinion -- is that Disney wanted to see if it had legs enough to be considered a classic years later. (Iknow they've been wrong a few times, too. Like the treehouse or the now departed 20,000 Leagues). And Disney doesn't put all it's eggs into a single basket -- there's no World of Toy Story over there. Harry Potter were pretty good movies and pretty good books, but will they resonate in 10 years like they do now? Maybe. I don't think it's a given. Same thing with things like Jurassic Park or the Simpsons or Transformers. They were hit movies or franchises, but those things all fade. I mean, would a Rambo ride catch any attention these days? Disney will spend the marketing money to keep their characters relevant -- I don't know whether US will do the same. About 10 yeas ago, the Six Flags franchise did a few things like that -- Looney Tunes themes everywhere. Those things don't register with kids anymore, but parents will always show their kids Snow White or Cinderella.

As for the princess-ification of WDW, I think that's true, but the reason is that it's something they can offer kids can't get anywhere else. I don't like it very much, but it makes sense. You can always find a thrill ride -- heck, add 3D to most video games now and you've practically got a thrill ride. But you can't hug Rapunzel anywhere else. That's what WDW offers -- something that feels like a lasting connection.

I'd love for WDW to shut down for a year and remake itself -- there are lots of things that could go away. But there's a permanence to WDW that Universal lacks.

Plus, like I said at the start. Very tight spaces and lots of people in them.

 

[Mad Hattered]

I just found everything about US crowded beyond description. I got there an hour before opening and the ticket line was huge. We hurried over to HP and not only were the lines long -- not only did they cram as many people into Olivanders so we could barely move -- the streets were crowded. You couldn't move very much. We waited 45 minutes for the Hippogriff ride, drank some butterbeer, bought our wands and were done. Everything about the place just felt small and tight. WDW feels like you've got room to breathe.

The other thing is -- and this is subjective, I know, but it feels a lot more transient, a lot more "right now" to me. The reason the Little Mermaid took 30 years to get built -- at least in my opinion -- is that Disney wanted to see if it had legs enough to be considered a classic years later. (Iknow they've been wrong a few times, too. Like the treehouse or the now departed 20,000 Leagues). And Disney doesn't put all it's eggs into a single basket -- there's no World of Toy Story over there. Harry Potter were pretty good movies and pretty good books, but will they resonate in 10 years like they do now? Maybe. I don't think it's a given. Same thing with things like Jurassic Park or the Simpsons or Transformers. They were hit movies or franchises, but those things all fade. I mean, would a Rambo ride catch any attention these days? Disney will spend the marketing money to keep their characters relevant -- I don't know whether US will do the same. About 10 yeas ago, the Six Flags franchise did a few things like that -- Looney Tunes themes everywhere. Those things don't register with kids anymore, but parents will always show their kids Snow White or Cinderella.

As for the princess-ification of WDW, I think that's true, but the reason is that it's something they can offer kids can't get anywhere else. I don't like it very much, but it makes sense. You can always find a thrill ride -- heck, add 3D to most video games now and you've practically got a thrill ride. But you can't hug Rapunzel anywhere else. That's what WDW offers -- something that feels like a lasting connection.

I'd love for WDW to shut down for a year and remake itself -- there are lots of things that could go away. But there's a permanence to WDW that Universal lacks.

Plus, like I said at the start. Very tight spaces and lots of people in them.

It's all about timing the season, just like WDW. Personally, I would always have my tickets in hand before showing up at the gate. We've walked out of there at 3 pm and still seen the huge line for tickets at the gate. If you waited 45 minutes for Hippo then the line for FJ must have been close to 2 hours. It's a really nice well-themed area if you are able to visit during less busy times and are able to take in the atmosphere on your own watch.

 

[fairyprincess88]

The other thing is -- and this is subjective, I know, but it feels a lot more transient, a lot more "right now" to me. The reason the Little Mermaid took 30 years to get built -- at least in my opinion -- is that Disney wanted to see if it had legs enough to be considered a classic years later. (Iknow they've been wrong a few times, too. Like the treehouse or the now departed 20,000 Leagues). And Disney doesn't put all it's eggs into a single basket -- there's no World of Toy Story over there. Harry Potter were pretty good movies and pretty good books, but will they resonate in 10 years like they do now? Maybe. I don't think it's a given. Same thing with things like Jurassic Park or the Simpsons or Transformers. They were hit movies or franchises, but those things all fade. I mean, would a Rambo ride catch any attention these days? Disney will spend the marketing money to keep their characters relevant -- I don't know whether US will do the same. About 10 yeas ago, the Six Flags franchise did a few things like that -- Looney Tunes themes everywhere. Those things don't register with kids anymore, but parents will always show their kids Snow White or Cinderella.

You do realize that The Simpsons is 26 years old and still running strong right? Or that Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone was released 17 years ago? Transformers has also been around for 30 years. None of these have "faded" yet.

I don't see why people seem to think Disney owns the patent on nostalgia. While yes I fondly remember and love the Little Mermaid, Toy Story and the like from my childhood. I also grew up in the Potter Generation. I also grew up with the Simpsons and Transformers. Just I as I happily remember seeing the Lion King for the first time, I also remember seeing Diagon Alley come to life. My dad always dreamed of being on Mickey Mouse Club, I just wanted to go to Hogwarts. So while Disney has nostalgia, they are not the only ones who do.

So yes, I am attached to Disney but no more or less than I am to other "classics" of my childhood. I will probably teach my kids about Harry and Hogwarts before I will about a movie princess that was made 40 years before I was born. Because while I've seen Snow White, I did not grow up with her or go to school with her for 7 years, but I did with Harry and I want my kids to know him too.

 

[Kelly014]

You do realize that The Simpsons is 26 years old and still running strong right? Or that Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone was released 17 years ago? Transformers has also been around for 30 years. None of these have "faded" yet. I don't see why people seem to think Disney owns the patent on nostalgia. While yes I fondly remember and love the Little Mermaid, Toy Story and the like from my childhood. I also grew up in the Potter Generation. I also grew up with the Simpsons and Transformers. Just I as I happily remember seeing the Lion King for the first time, I also remember seeing Diagon Alley come to life. My dad always dreamed of being on Mickey Mouse Club, I just wanted to go to Hogwarts. So while Disney has nostalgia, they are not the only ones who do. So yes, I am attached to Disney but no more or less than I am to other "classics" of my childhood. I will probably teach my kids about Harry and Hogwarts before I will about a movie princess that was made 40 years before I was born. Because while I've seen Snow White, I did not grow up with her or go to school with her for 7 years, but I did with Harry and I want my kids to know him too.

I completely agree with this. We have a FP for 7DMT and I just dug out an old tape of Snow White for DD4 to watch. She's never seen it. But she most definitely knows who Harry Potter is!

Also, the Harry Potter books being 17 years old makes me feel old. I'm in my late 20s, but holy crap. Has it really been that long?

 

[Mad Hattered]

I completely agree with this. We have a FP for 7DMT and I just dug out an old tape of Snow White for DD4 to watch. She's never seen it. But she most definitely knows who Harry Potter is!

Also, the Harry Potter books being 17 years old makes me feel old. I'm in my late 20s, but holy crap. Has it really been that long?

And we are late 40's (damn you, Kelly!!!!) and my wife has read them all twice. There is a big age difference there....but that is the point, isn't it?

 

[Bluegrrl]

Since I live in the Orlando-ish area, naturally a lot of my good friends work for Disney and for Uni. Several are "good friends" with the Disney characters. We were all having a similar talk: Universal is taking advantage of building brand nostalgia with kids and teens so that they will get them when they are older with the same nostalgia that Disney has. Halloween Horror Nights is a HUGE deal down here, several local radio stations host local events at CityWalk, the local Rocky Horror Picture show is held at CityWalk, etc. In some ways, Uni Orlando is like Disneyland in California. It's a day park which is friendly to both locals and out of state guests. And they are gearing towards the anti-princess/magic crowd while providing better customer service.

Plus, things like Harry Potter are an international phenomena vs Avatar which was a fairly good movie that may have 1 or 2 sequels. When Potter opened, Uni had no idea how many people and on what a global scale they would attract. My friend works at Harry Potter (he's a Slytherin!) and even he was amazed at how many people came to see HP. He loves working for them, but mainly b/c he gets to play with the Hippogriff. Now, one of my other friends was both friends with the Beast at Disney and friends with Shrek, and he liked Disney better. So, to each their own. But I think that Uni has a real "Day Guest" feel with their guests, similar to Disneyland. So maybe that's where the "magic" issue comes in?

Disneyland and Disneyland Toyko are where it's at, apparently.

 

[Dvc808]

As I read this thread, I envy all of you that have enough experience with both parks to have a say in which is better or not. I for one have never been to WDW or US/IoA. I will be going early January with my family. But no matter, I bet we will enjoy both!
I have been to disneyland several times and love it! Universal Hollywood couple times and it is OK. Not since transformers opened and would like to see that as I am a fan of the movies as well as my boys.

 

[Brad Bishop]

For us (and me specifically), Universal just seems to be trying harder than WDW is now. They are investing in exciting new attractions that open relatively frequently. And the imagination involved with those attractions just seems, at the moment, better (even though I do think they rely a bit too much on the motion-theater idea....but it works well, especially as it's integrated with better overall show presentation).

I keep seeing people post that and I'm not getting it.

MK is just finishing up large expansion to Fantasyland.

While some people don't like it, the migration over to the magic bands is a huge project and a big step. It'll be good, going forward.

MK is reworking the hub (not an attraction, but a nice change)

Avatar (not my favorite) has broken ground at Animal Kingdom.

They've been making a lot of nice, small improvements on various rides with queue line activities, things like in the Haunted Mansion with the ghosts bouncing around at the end instead of the old mirror trick - stuff like that.

To me, the competition between USF/IOA & WDW & even Busch Gardens is working well for all visitors.

 

[mom2rtk]

I keep seeing people post that and I'm not getting it.

MK is just finishing up large expansion to Fantasyland.

While some people don't like it, the migration over to the magic bands is a huge project and a big step. It'll be good, going forward.

MK is reworking the hub (not an attraction, but a nice change)

Avatar (not my favorite) has broken ground at Animal Kingdom.

They've been making a lot of nice, small improvements on various rides with queue line activities, things like in the Haunted Mansion with the ghosts bouncing around at the end instead of the old mirror trick - stuff like that.

To me, the competition between USF/IOA & WDW & even Busch Gardens is working well for all visitors.

I think the fact that you have to include a reworking of the hub in your list is very telling.

Disney HAS been busy. But it all seems to be on the periphery.

If you're not an Avatar fan, or not of the right demographic to be wowed by New Fantasyland, then there's not a lot of "new" to get excited about. And unfortunately that description includes a LOT of people. A LOT.

 

[Brad Bishop]

And speaking of themes....it looks like Universal has come a long way in the animatronic world. And stay for the very end of the following video....it's part of the actual ride. Tell me there is no themeing in the first set of this ride...and if that doesn't look like Bellatrix and the goblin are there live and in person then nothing will. For a projection in an extremely large themed set I find it pretty amazing.

Just a quick note:
For those of you who are nervous about these screen-based rides and the fear of vomiting on them, you should give them a shot. I'm one of those people, too. Give me a first-person 3D game or one of those early simulators and I come out white and pasty trying to hold down my nausea. I still hedge my bets with some Dramamine but I really don't think I need it. These rides and their effects have come a long way in the last 25 years.

As to whether things are animatronics or not: I think that's the wrong question to ask. Does the ride/attraction/illusion made me feel like something is there and real? That's key to me.

The Pirates walk-through a DHS. The first time I was in there and I saw Capt. Jack Sparrow come out from the back of that ship I thought, "Wow - they really made that CM look like Johnny Depp." It took me a few minutes to realize: "Oh, crap - that's just a projected image." That is a good illusion and it was done better than animatronics.

The same holds true for The Simpsons Ride, Spiderman, and Harry Potter - they get you so into it that it just feels real. If you're paying attention it takes your brain a min to think, "Oh, wow - I'm just looking at a projection screen." That's pretty amazing to me.

Poseidon, on the other hand, left me thinking: "Wow, that was a really cool water tunnel thing I just went through.." and then inside the made area, "Oh, it's just a bunch of projections on the wall.." - not so great. The water tunnel, to me, was the coolest part. That should have, instead, been a really cool intro to something even more amazing. All that being said, it's an older attraction so I don't mean to ding it too much.

I hope USF/IOA stop at this for Harry Potter, though. It would suck if they slowly transformed into Harry Potter parks. It'd be like all of Adventureland becoming Pirates of the Caribbean based.

 

[metzgardesign]

I keep seeing people post that and I'm not getting it.

MK is just finishing up large expansion to Fantasyland.

While some people don't like it, the migration over to the magic bands is a huge project and a big step. It'll be good, going forward.

MK is reworking the hub (not an attraction, but a nice change)

Avatar (not my favorite) has broken ground at Animal Kingdom.

They've been making a lot of nice, small improvements on various rides with queue line activities, things like in the Haunted Mansion with the ghosts bouncing around at the end instead of the old mirror trick - stuff like that.

To me, the competition between USF/IOA & WDW & even Busch Gardens is working well for all visitors.

I agree....competition is good for the consumer.

But I disagree that that WDW is even remotely keeping up in that regard.

The Fantasyland expansion is not really that impressive (comparably). We get a good new restaurant; a new, tame rollie-coaster; a Little Mermaid dark ride; some princess meet-n-greets; and some new atmospheric visuals. While, yes, new.....it's not really that impressive.

And the MagicBands? Really? I guess I fall into the the camp of not really caring how I am ticketed (actually, I would prefer the carrying of a card in the pocket of my cargo shorts over wearing a rubber bracelet, truth be told). Come on......While it's a neat idea, I suppose and relatively innovative in terms of crowd management and universal access.....it's not too exciting to the end user (well except for the fact that you can customize it I guess).

And the queue improvements reek of "We realize that we have WAY too few attractions for the number of people we are letting in, and that will result in them being in line a LONG time, possibly. Let's add some relatively inexpensive distractions in some of those lines to counteract that fact. That'll be cheaper than REAL attractions."

As I said, I get this is a Disney fan site.....but I do believe they are dropping the ball on many fronts. Universal landed a major coup hitching their wagon the the Potter franchise. And have maximized their opportunities there. Disney is relying on the Avatar franchise. And I simply do not think it has nearly the multi-generational interest that HP does, and that Land's offerings will not have the same pull that HP does. Maybe I will be proven wrong.

WDW is still the default "I'm going to Disney World" standard for THE family vacation....but for how long?

 

[mom2rtk]

And the queue improvements reek of "We realize that we have WAY too few attractions for the number of people we are letting in, and that will result in them being in line a LONG time, possibly. Let's add some relatively inexpensive distractions in some of those lines to counteract that fact. That'll be cheaper than REAL attractions."

That about covers is.

Queue enhancements do absolutely nothing for me. I be most people have their heads buried in their phones these days anyway. I really have no interest in a few preschool-like interactive elements.

 

[Seeker615]

Ever been to DisneyLAND? Same thing. Three hotels, Downtown Disney, and two theme parks all within walking distance.

I would love to go to Disneyland! I really need to plan that trip!

 

[Brad Bishop]

I think the fact that you have to include a reworking of the hub in your list is very telling.

Disney HAS been busy. But it all seems to be on the periphery.

If you're not an Avatar fan, or not of the right demographic to be wowed by New Fantasyland, then there's not a lot of "new" to get excited about. And unfortunately that description includes a LOT of people. A LOT.

Well, I didn't have to include it but only did because it's a fairly sizable project. Maybe not a sexy project, but still sizable.

As to your second comment, you're completely ignoring a major park expansion, with money invested in the park which is what folks are complaining about, just because it's not targeting you. That doesn't seem quite fair.

For me, I really wish Avatar would have been scrapped and something more in line with AK added such as the mythical beasts area or a new continent or something. You may as well put a Star Trek themed area in AK because that's been rebooted and there are plenty of Trek fans (no, I don't want a Star Trek area, but if you can make an argument for Avatar then you can make an argument for Star Trek).

 

[ArwenMarie]

I keep seeing people post that and I'm not getting it.

MK is just finishing up large expansion to Fantasyland.

While some people don't like it, the migration over to the magic bands is a huge project and a big step. It'll be good, going forward.

MK is reworking the hub (not an attraction, but a nice change)

Avatar (not my favorite) has broken ground at Animal Kingdom.

They've been making a lot of nice, small improvements on various rides with queue line activities, things like in the Haunted Mansion with the ghosts bouncing around at the end instead of the old mirror trick - stuff like that.

To me, the competition between USF/IOA & WDW & even Busch Gardens is working well for all visitors.

The Hub and My Magic are projects for Disney...not projects that add to the wow factor for customers.

I really like the New Fantasyland, I think it's looks really good and I'm excited to ride the Mine Train and see the new daytime parade, so I agree with you there. I think part of the reason Disney didn't get the buzz they should have out of that expansion was because they took too long to build it and they opened it in stages and left a gigantic construction site in the middle of it. I really think they dropped the ball on that.

Another place where I think they dropped the ball in New Fantasyland was not upgrading the facades of Peter Pan, Philharmagic and IASW as well. That whole corridor still looks cheesy to me and doesn't fit in with the New Fantasyland.

I think Avatarland will be good but it's so far off in the future that it's hard to get excited about it.

I agree that the competition is good for fans on both sides.

 

[ArwenMarie]

That about covers is.

Queue enhancements do absolutely nothing for me. I be most people have their heads buried in their phones these days anyway. I really have no interest in a few preschool-like interactive elements.

I agree. You'll see kids with gadgets too.

 

[KatieCharlotte]

WDW is still the default "I'm going to Disney World" standard for THE family vacation....but for how long?

I think it will continue to depend on the age of the kids, but there's definitely been a shift. We live far enough away that a trip to Florida is a big deal, but our community includes quite a few people with more disposable income than us. My middle school son says his friends have stopped going to Disney because it's for little kids -- if they visit a theme park in Florida, it's Universal or Busch Gardens. Back when I was a middle schooler, Disney was still the trip to take.

My DS doesn't ride coasters and simulators, so MK is still the best park for him, but he's an exception to the general rule. My 9-year-old DD fell in love with IoA's theming -- Harry Potter, Lost Continent, super heroes, Jurassic. That's the stuff that appeals to her, and IoA really did it well.

I love MK for the nostalgia and the appeal for kids of all ages who need tamer rides. Where I'm disappointed in Disney is the lack of development at the three other parks, which have sadly been left in the dust by US/IoA. I used to scorn Universal and truly meant it when I called it the darkside, but Disney loyalty only goes so far, especially with HP fanatics in my house. I would love if Disney would win back my family with a Star Wars land.

 

[Brad Bishop]

Another place where I think they dropped the ball in New Fantasyland was not upgrading the facades of Peter Pan, Philharmagic and IASW as well. That whole corridor still looks cheesy to me and doesn't fit in with the New Fantasyland.

I hadn't considered that, but I think you're right there. At the end, where the old Skyway station was, has been improved, but that little corridor really could use a little more theming than what feels like (mostly) plywood with paint.

Disneyland had the same issue with Fantasyland up until their 1983 (I think) overall. It was plywood and paint. Then they completely redid it and it looks quite nice. There are some sites with before and after shots and it's a really nice transformation.

Oh, just to clarify: I'm not knocking USF/IOA in any of this. They have a huge budget, from what I've read, for the next 10 years. I expect them to really top out on attractions/additions. I think that the Harry Potter stuff is just the beginning.

 

[KatieCharlotte]

That about covers is.

Queue enhancements do absolutely nothing for me. I be most people have their heads buried in their phones these days anyway. I really have no interest in a few preschool-like interactive elements.

To be fair, my five-year-old liked the queue enhancements and even the older kids were entertained enough. Although I would have preferred not to wait twenty minutes for Pooh, the time at least went fast. I'm mean and don't let my family members bury their heads in their phones on vacation (part of the reason I don't like FP+). But the queue entertainment could not compare to Hogwarts Castle, where we were reluctant to move ahead in line because we'd miss something.

 

[Brad Bishop]

To be fair, my five-year-old liked the queue enhancements and even the older kids were entertained enough. Although I would have preferred not to wait twenty minutes for Pooh, the time at least went fast. I'm mean and don't let my family members bury their heads in their phones on vacation (part of the reason I don't like FP+). But the queue entertainment could not compare to Hogwarts Castle, where we were reluctant to move ahead in line because we'd miss something.

I like them. One of the worst queues was BTMRR. They didn't even do a lot to it in terms of functionality/interactive stuff, but it's so much better since they reworked it. It's got a few things in there but before it was just "pack them in as tight as possible".

I like that there's interactive stuff to play with or even interesting things to look at in line instead of just a standard back and forth boring queue. Harry Potter is a good example of that. You walk around Hogwart's, the pictures move/interact. It's cool. That's SO much better than the old style of, "well, I'll stare at the back of this guy's head for 20min to an hour+..." It also helps pull you into the ride a bit, I think.

The first queue I remember being intestine was Pirates way back when I first rode it in the 1970s. I thought, "Wow - we're going into this pirates cave/dungeon things.. How cool is that?" Nothing to do in there but look at stuff and it was a neat experience for me.