United Airlines Forces Man off of oversold flight

[MickeyMinnieMom]

no empathy for someone who made a conscious decision to not listen to authorities

Funny. My dad who was a cop for 28yrs (i.e. "the authorities") managed empathy for people who protested cops... while he worked those same protests.

Luckily, we have officers in this country who do have empathy. Perhaps we could use more of that.

 

[baildrk]

there is a big difference in what you just said and what happened here, apples and oranges, do I feel bad that an old guy who held onto a seat like a child throwing a tantrum got hurt because he didn't listen to authorities not one bit, again accountability something that is missing theses days. I have plenty of empathy for people who deserve it... not for someone throwing a fit because he didn't like what happened.

 

[monsterkitty]

When we took a bump, our luggage was waiting for us at our home airport. It stayed on the original flight we were supposed to be on. I am not sure if that is SOP or not, since we were only two hours behind our luggage.

Question (and you might know since you've been bumped): What happens to the checked luggage? If they are just looking for random volunteers to take a different flight, how huge a job is it to sort through all the luggage? Wouldn't that result in hours of delay?

I'm not sure. Since the bumped passengers have already been cleared to fly, maybe any checked luggage is allowed to stay on the plane. If not, I suppose there is indeed a flight delay due to retrieving it from the hold.

Both times I was bumped it was voluntary. One time I only had a carry-on. The other time was on the second leg of a connecting flight. My checked bag went to Philly without me and I picked it up the next day when I finally arrived.

We recently flew SWA and they were asking for volunteers to take a flight a few hours later. The final offer was $600 plus the value of our tickets so it was really tempting! We asked if they would pull our luggage if we took the later flight. They said no that they would just hold the bags at our final destination. We were in CA for an Ironman 70.3 so I had my race bike and DH had his golf clubs. We declined as they said they wouldn't even put them in the SWA baggage claims office.

 

[Squirlz]

no empathy for someone who made a conscious decision to not listen to authorities

Do you have empathy? Please share your experience.

 

[Westcoastwild]

Yes. Similar situation happened when I was packing my camping gear. If they could have gauranteed my luggage, I would have taken it. But they couldn't. I needed that camping gear. I get why they can't pull luggage. But because they can't, it just becomes one more reason to not volunteer.

 

[amberpi]

Technically, I don't think what he did was illegal. Airlines only have criminal legal action available to them if the safety of the flight is endangered, or that's what I've gathered from literally thousands of flights. I could certainly be wrong on this. Clearly, it looks like that during the course of this standoff, which should have NEVER been allowed to occur before boarding, the "authorities" here stooped to what is obviously assault. Period. They disagreed, and assaulted the man. I'm sorry, but I believe civilized adults darn near never need to resort to violence like children, and that's what happened. The airline had tons of options left to them and could have kept upping the price or DEALT with the problems they had instead of fobbing those issues that were not created by the passengers, off on them.

I've got a lot of miles with United, A LOT, and this is going to cost them money. I formerly would have picked them at a premium cost, I won't now and I'll be looking to see how I can turn my miles into hotel nights or gift cards whatever. I've heard a lot more senior, million milers on United, saying they're done today, and those are just my high strung colleagues.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

If they could have gauranteed my luggage, I would have taken it.

An airline guaranteeing your luggage?!?



I've not had great luck with that.

 

[amberpi]

Well I can't speak for her of course but my reaction would have probably been the same. I would have been saying in my head and it might have slipped out a few times as well. Actually what might have been running through my mind is not DIS approved words. I assure you I would not have been looking to make it worse or trying to do anything but rather an honest reaction to what I was seeing..as in disbelief, shock, surprise, never thought I'd see this reaction.

Agreed. I would have been very forcefully expressing my horror at witnessing violence in front of me. I've never even really seen a fight go down. I did have to watch football once or twice.

 

[baildrk]

Do you have empathy? Please share your experience.

unfortunately i dont have to prove myself to anyone, sorry. But respect to me is #1, obviously he didn't show the authorities proper respect. you can say this all you want, i have plenty of people that have thanked me in my time, with my many jobs. but i can see this board lives in a fantasy world, im out good day to you all.

 

[bcla]

Yup. European carriers actually enforce baggage rules. I saw no oversized bags over there at all. Here, I see violations on every flight. Last flight I took they tried to tell me that I'd have to check my laptop bag because the bins were almost full. I don't think so. If there are so many huge wheeled suitcases that I can't find space for my one carry on- a messenger bag- then someone is not doing their job.

The thing about the regional jets is that luggage only fits lengthwise w/ respect to the fuselage. I think it was at least an inch longer in everybody dimension than their sizer. Basically two pieces fit in each bin. We also had maybe 5 personal items among 3 passengers.

Years ago it really was the Wild West. I went to a trade show, although I didn't work the booth. My coworker asked me to bring home some delicate electronics, and don't check it in. The entire cabin had excess stuff everywhere.

 

[Westcoastwild]

Technically, I don't think what he did was illegal. Airlines only have criminal legal action available to them if the safety of the flight is endangered, or that's what I've gathered from literally thousands of flights. I could certainly be wrong on this. Clearly, it looks like that during the course of this standoff, which should have NEVER been allowed to occur before boarding, the "authorities" here stooped to what is obviously assault. Period. They disagreed, and assaulted the man. I'm sorry, but I believe civilized adults darn near never need to resort to violence like children, and that's what happened. The airline had tons of options left to them and could have kept upping the price or DEALT with the problems they had instead of fobbing those issues that were not created by the passengers, off on them.

I've got a lot of miles with United, A LOT, and this is going to cost them money. I formerly would have picked them at a premium cost, I won't now and I'll be looking to see how I can turn my miles into hotel nights or gift cards whatever. I've heard a lot more senior, million milers on United, saying they're done today, and those are just my high strung colleagues.

So I agree that this should have happened at the gate (at least I think that's what you're saying). They didn't remove him because of criminal actions- they removed him because he refused to cooperate. What I want to know, though, is this: what would you have them do differently? Let's say they maxed out on what they could offer, and still no one budged. What then? They can involuntarily bump people. That's pretty much their only option at that point. And remember, this guy isn't the only person they bumped. The couple before him left peacefully. They didn't talk back to security, they didn't get removed, they didn't stall the whole flight for hours. Those are rational adults. This guy wasn't behaving rationally. People are removed from flights all the time for being disruptive or drunk. Say this guy refused to follow orders during take off or landing. You can get into trouble for that too. And that does make him a danger to the flight.

 

[Westcoastwild]

The thing about the regional jets is that luggage only fits lengthwise w/ respect to the fuselage. I think it was at least an inch longer in everybody dimension than their sizer. Basically two pieces fit in each bin. We also had maybe 5 personal items among 3 passengers.

Years ago it really was the Wild West. I went to a trade show, although I didn't work the booth. My coworker asked me to bring home some delicate electronics, and don't check it in. The entire cabin had excess stuff everywhere.

Lol. True about regional planes. The ones that fly out of my hometown make you gatecheck everything with wheels for that reason.

 

[Westcoastwild]

An airline guaranteeing your luggage?!?



I've not had great luck with that.

Well, if it takes off on the same flight as me, I feel like there's a good chance we'll end up in the same place. But when they said it would get to my destination either a day early OR a day late...well, I'm extra paranoid.

 

[Albort]

So I agree that this should have happened at the gate (at least I think that's what you're saying). They didn't remove him because of criminal actions- they removed him because he refused to cooperate. What I want to know, though, is this: what would you have them do differently? Let's say they maxed out on what they could offer, and still no one budged. What then? They can involuntarily bump people. That's pretty much their only option at that point. And remember, this guy isn't the only person they bumped. The couple before him left peacefully. They didn't talk back to security, they didn't get removed, they didn't stall the whole flight for hours. Those are rational adults. This guy wasn't behaving rationally. People are removed from flights all the time for being disruptive or drunk. Say this guy refused to follow orders during take off or landing. You can get into trouble for that too. And that does make him a danger to the flight.

United is a big company. They should have the resources to find another set of crew. I mean, have u ever seen Disneyland have a ride no operating because of lack of CMs? at least for the new flight, they could book everyone on other airlines hours in advanced. and actually deny them from checking in. Then again... that would mean less money... CEO no likie dikie...

 

[superme80]

Very interesting discussion. Normally I side with businesses. I personally have a strong dislike for how this man was treated. I see where both sides are wrong, but his injuries should not have happened period. Reminds me why I don't fly.

 

[Westcoastwild]

United is a big company. They should have the resources to find another set of crew. I mean, have u ever seen Disneyland have a ride no operating because of lack of CMs? at least for the new flight, they could book everyone on other airlines hours in advanced. and actually deny them from checking in. Then again... that would mean less money... CEO no likie dikie...

Oh, I'm pretty sure Disney has shut down rides temporarily for that reason. There is no way that every single one of my favorite rides breaks down due to "technical difficulties" that often.

But even so, I still would rather have an overworked ride operator than an exhausted and overworked flight crew. I don't think that's a valid comparison but thanks for the laugh

I don't think the later flight was an option, really. Either it didn't exist or it interefered with the rules governing staff work hours.

 

[bcla]

Technically, I don't think what he did was illegal. Airlines only have criminal legal action available to them if the safety of the flight is endangered, or that's what I've gathered from literally thousands of flights. I could certainly be wrong on this. Clearly, it looks like that during the course of this standoff, which should have NEVER been allowed to occur before boarding, the "authorities" here stooped to what is obviously assault. Period. They disagreed, and assaulted the man. I'm sorry, but I believe civilized adults darn near never need to resort to violence like children, and that's what happened. The airline had tons of options left to them and could have kept upping the price or DEALT with the problems they had instead of fobbing those issues that were not created by the passengers, off on them.

I've got a lot of miles with United, A LOT, and this is going to cost them money. I formerly would have picked them at a premium cost, I won't now and I'll be looking to see how I can turn my miles into hotel nights or gift cards whatever. I've heard a lot more senior, million milers on United, saying they're done today, and those are just my high strung colleagues.

I don't fault United. They maxed their offer and followed procedures by the book. Bringing in police is standard to remove someone off a plane. If the police overrreacted its not United's fault.

 

[amberpi]

So I agree that this should have happened at the gate (at least I think that's what you're saying). They didn't remove him because of criminal actions- they removed him because he refused to cooperate. What I want to know, though, is this: what would you have them do differently? Let's say they maxed out on what they could offer, and still no one budged. What then? They can involuntarily bump people. That's pretty much their only option at that point. And remember, this guy isn't the only person they bumped. The couple before him left peacefully. They didn't talk back to security, they didn't get removed, they didn't stall the whole flight for hours. Those are rational adults. This guy wasn't behaving rationally. People are removed from flights all the time for being disruptive or drunk. Say this guy refused to follow orders during take off or landing. You can get into trouble for that too. And that does make him a danger to the flight.

That post was a bit disjointed as I was trying to tie a view thoughts from other posters together. And, as usual, I have crazy cat aggro right now.

There are clearly reasons for someone being removed from a flight and there can be criminal consequences for such, but I *think* they can only remove someone, that has already been boarded, for disorderly conduct - and hell, yes, I want them too! But...I have a great idea for United, and where I fault them to the point that I wrote the corp's travel office I'm working for now to get me off of United preferred when I can't take Southwest or British Air, that was DEAL with their flight crew issues without impacting a flight to this degree. They could have gotten another flight crew from somewhere. I think that is the biggest pile of poop excuse I've ever heard. That's the airline not being prepared, and I fly enough I don't want to be put in this position. I do a lot of expert testimony, what if I had to miss that? I'm sure it'd be fine, but yikes! I've been bumped when I was young and didn't have status with the airlines yet, but as a frequent passenger, that they allowed the flight to be boarded and it came to this? TOTALLY unacceptable. I get that the others passengers left when asked, and I think he was being kinda petty, but violence is pretty much never going to be something I think we as a society should EVER shrug off as "they had it coming" "what else could they do." I idealistically bop through places like Mexico City and think things will be ok, and they are, even though there are a lot of machine guns around, and I want to believe that in the US we can deal with this kind of petty stuff without hauling an elderly doctor off a commercial flight. I didn't care when they removed Alec Baldwin, and I love him, but they weren't physical with him. That's the defining difference for ME. No one has to agree with me. For my own part, I'm taking my money and the crazy money my employers spend on super last minute tickets for me and going home on American or Delta

 

[bcla]

United is a big company. They should have the resources to find another set of crew. I mean, have u ever seen Disneyland have a ride no operating because of lack of CMs? at least for the new flight, they could book everyone on other airlines hours in advanced. and actually deny them from checking in. Then again... that would mean less money... CEO no likie dikie...

Aircraft and crew dispatch is like herding cats.

 

[Westcoastwild]

That post was a bit disjointed as I was trying to tie a view thoughts from other posters together. And, as usual, I have crazy cat aggro right now.

There are clearly reasons for someone being removed from a flight and there can be criminal consequences for such, but I *think* they can only remove someone, that has already been boarded, for disorderly conduct - and hell, yes, I want them too! But...I have a great idea for United, and where I fault them to the point that I wrote the corp's travel office I'm working for now to get me off of United preferred when I can't take Southwest or British Air, that was DEAL with their flight crew issues without impacting a flight to this degree. They could have gotten another flight crew from somewhere. I think that is the biggest pile of poop excuse I've ever heard. That's the airline not being prepared, and I fly enough I don't want to be put in this position. I do a lot of expert testimony, what if I had to miss that? I'm sure it'd be fine, but yikes! I've been bumped when I was young and didn't have status with the airlines yet, but as a frequent passenger, that they allowed the flight to be boarded and it came to this? TOTALLY unacceptable. I get that the others passengers left when asked, and I think he was being kinda petty, but violence is pretty much never going to be something I think we as a society should EVER shrug off as "they had it coming" "what else could they do." I idealistically bop through places like Mexico City and think things will be ok, and they are, even though there are a lot of machine guns around, and I want to believe that in the US we can deal with this kind of petty stuff without hauling an elderly doctor off a commercial flight. I didn't care when they removed Alec Baldwin, and I love him, but they weren't physical with him. That's the defining difference for ME. No one has to agree with me. For my own part, I'm taking my money and the crazy money my employers spend on super last minute tickets for me and going home on American or Delta

I see! I understand your POV a lot better. Yes, I agree. It was handled poorly. And I do think the whole situation was likely a result of the staff trying to deal with poor planning that trickled down from their supervisers. I still hold the guy responsible, ultimately. But the whole thing doesn't reflect well on the airline or their staff. Wrong fight to pick in front of a plane of customers.