United Airlines Forces Man off of oversold flight

[amberpi]

I see! I understand your POV a lot better. Yes, I agree. It was handled poorly. And I do think the whole situation was likely a result of the staff trying to deal with poor planning that trickled down from their supervisers. I still hold the guy responsible, ultimately. But the whole thing doesn't reflect well on the airline or their staff. Wrong fight to pick in front of a plane of customers.

This particular guy was an idiot, but you encapsulated it perfectly. They shouldn't have put their issues on the passengers and they should not have let it get to the point of violence. I should really use powerpoint for all my communications. I'm great at it. Personal, long form communications? Not so much.

 

[Pacolovestacos]

Funny. My dad who was a cop for 28yrs (i.e. "the authorities") managed empathy for people who protested cops... while he worked those same protests.

Luckily, we have officers in this country who do have empathy. Perhaps we could use more of that.

What we could use more of are people who listen to and follow instructions.

 

[bcla]

This particular guy was an idiot, but you encapsulated it perfectly. They shouldn't have put their issues on the passengers and they should not have let it get to the point of violence. I should really use powerpoint for all my communications. I'm great at it. Personal, long form communications? Not so much.

Why is United being blamed for the violence though? Once they call security, it's their call on how to proceed and not the airline.

 

[amberpi]

Why is United being blamed for the violence though? Once they call security, it's their call on how to proceed and not the airline.

Because they let it get to that place. They didn't deal with it before boarding, and its their business to have appropriate staffing. Its simple. If it can happen to an elderly doc, I'm sure they give even less of a poop if some consultant gets pulled off a boarded aircraft. I liked United well enough, but not the way I'd whisper dirty things in the ear of Southwest that really takes care of its Alist Preferred people. Its troubling to know how much they're overbooking if you depend on flights every week of your life, ya know?

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I am worried for the well-being of this elderly passenger. The blow to his brain after his head hit the armrest appeared to be severe enough to cause him to pass out. He will no doubt have sustained a concussion, at least, and his injuries could well be career-ending, if not worse. (We shall see over the next days and months.) I think the security agents could've found a way to be less violent with this passenger, despite his being unruly. This is what they train for, and I'm sure they've encountered way worse. The head of the security dept as much as said that the level of violence in this situation was unacceptable:

"An airport cop who allegedly body-slammed the passenger was put on leave today - as his bosses condemned his actions amid mounting outrage over video of the incident.

The Chicago Department of Aviation said it 'obviously' did not condone the behavior of the security officer who was filmed slamming the man into an arm rest, knocking him unconscious and dragging him away by his arms as he bled from the mouth at O'Hare."

 

[Pacolovestacos]

I find it curious all these organizations saying they don't condone what the security officers did but they don't say what the security officers should have done.

Should they have asked the man to leave 50 more times? 100?

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I find it curious all these organizations saying they don't condone what the security officers did but they don't say what the security officers should have done.

Should they have asked the man to leave 50 more times? 100?

It's a fair question. But there were three of them, to one of him. We don't know the officers' ages, but it's probably safe to say they were all younger than him and likely quite a bit stronger. They also have training for these situations and tools at their disposal. Sometimes just the presence of three officers is enough to get one person to comply. I'd hope, for all our sakes, that they could find a way between them to de-escalate the situation and safely remove the passenger from the plane without incident. But it doesn't seem to be what we've seen here.

 

[bcla]

I find it curious all these organizations saying they don't condone what the security officers did but they don't say what the security officers should have done.

Should they have asked the man to leave 50 more times? 100?

They were apparently unarmed officers, which is somewhat unusual. However, I don't know if armed police would have made a difference.

 

[Pacolovestacos]

They were apparently unarmed officers, which is somewhat unusual. However, I don't know if armed police would have made a difference.

I doubt it. I think the man had already made his mind up that he wasn't leaving that plane and nobody was going to tell him otherwise. Unfortunately, that's not how society works. At some point, the bucks gotta stop somewhere and it stopped once 3 security guards tell you it's time to leave.

 

[bcla]

I doubt it. I think the man had already made his mind up that he wasn't leaving that plane and nobody was going to tell him otherwise. Unfortunately, that's not how society works. At some point, the bucks gotta stop somewhere and it stopped once 3 security guards tell you it's time to leave.

It also sounds like he was released in the terminal with the idea that he'd accept his fate, but then bullrushed his way back on. A bit unclear on the concept I'd think.

 

[Pacolovestacos]

It also sounds like he was released in the terminal with the idea that he'd accept his fate, but then bullrushed his way back on. A bit unclear on the concept I'd think.

I actually think he should be arrested for that but perhaps someone can convince me otherwise.

 

[baildrk]

What we could use more of are people who listen to and follow instructions.

Faith in humanity coming back a little.......just a little so far

 

[baildrk]

and faith leaving once again....honestly how can anyone think that this type of behavior of the passenger is ok. Read your tickets and agreements people its a private business they can tell you your not flying and thats that they were well within their right. How would anyone here that said it was wrong get him off the plane without touching him... the answer is you wouldnt have, then what a standoff in aisle 12.
I just dont get how someone can condone his actions, if he would have acted like an adult this never wuold have happened period.

 

[Pacolovestacos]

They were apparently unarmed officers, which is somewhat unusual. However, I don't know if armed police would have made a difference.

I do

and faith leaving once again....honestly how can anyone think that this type of behavior of the passenger is ok. Read your tickets and agreements people its a private business they can tell you your not flying and thats that they were well within their right. How would anyone here that said it was wrong get him off the plane without touching him... the answer is you wouldnt have, then what a standoff in aisle 12.
I just dont get how someone can condone his actions, if he would have acted like an adult this never wuold have happened period.

Pretty much agree. I do acknowledge that putting your hands on someone should be an absolute last resort but this guy just buckled down and he had already decided he wasn't going to leave no matter what. Didn't leave the security guards many options.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

and faith leaving once again....honestly how can anyone think that this type of behavior of the passenger is ok. Read your tickets and agreements people its a private business they can tell you your not flying and thats that they were well within their right. How would anyone here that said it was wrong get him off the plane without touching him... the answer is you wouldnt have, then what a standoff in aisle 12.
I just dont get how someone can condone his actions, if he would have acted like an adult this never wuold have happened period.

I don't think anyone said he shouldn't have been touched. But there's a difference between touching and excessive force. Does anyone really think it was necessary to slam his head into an armrest?

At any rate, some info seems to be filtering out now about who he is and it appears he could have a bit of an interesting background. So the plot thickens....

 

[Westcoastwild]

and faith leaving once again....honestly how can anyone think that this type of behavior of the passenger is ok. Read your tickets and agreements people its a private business they can tell you your not flying and thats that they were well within their right. How would anyone here that said it was wrong get him off the plane without touching him... the answer is you wouldnt have, then what a standoff in aisle 12.
I just dont get how someone can condone his actions, if he would have acted like an adult this never wuold have happened period.

Sure. But even private businesses are subject to oversight and laws. I wasn't there and can't say for sure if there were other ways to handle it. But I don't think there was much of an excuse for a strong young security guard- who has plenty of back up- to body slam an unarmed man in his 60s. Handcuff and subdue him? Sure. But actually bodily injure him? It's a little like the shoplifters who get shot in the parking lot by other customers. Sure. The shoplifter broke the law. But that doesn't mean the customer who shot them is let off the hook. Reasonable force. Legal means. The guy was an idiot but security screwed up. If the guy was a danger, how did he get loose to return to the plane? If he wasn't a danger, then why did the security guy think it was acceptable to cause him bodily harm?

I tend to agree with you that the guy caused his own problems. But I also think the security guys need either reprimands on their files or a LOT more training or both. I've worked with loss prevention folks, first responders, and with special ed teachers. That sort of misjudgement would end in suspension if not firing. And given how stressful air travel is these days- professionalism and de-escalation are two major aspects of their jobs. Or at least should be.

 

[Westcoastwild]

I don't think anyone said he shouldn't have been touched. But there's a difference between touching and excessive force. Does anyone really think it was necessary to slam his head into an armrest?

At any rate, some info seems to be filtering out now about who he is and it appears he could have a bit of an interesting background. So the plot thickens....

Oooh...links?

 

[Westcoastwild]

My powers of google-fu are weakening. But if y'all want to ponder what is really wrong with the airline industry today...here's a real good start

http://www.cnbc.com/2017/04/10/unit...rmer-continental-ceo-gordon-bethune-says.html

 

[Albort]

Oooh...links?

it basically states that he has a limited medical license due to his past. i think its meant to make the passenger look bad. honestly his past doesnt really have anything to do with the situation.

 

[Westcoastwild]

it basically states that he has a limited medical license due to his past. i think its meant to make the passenger look bad. honestly his past doesnt really have anything to do with the situation.

Huh. No, it doesn't. Reliable source? I'm just curious because they're starting to recycle the story a lot now, and things are starting to get a bit jumbled. Although it might just be getting jumbled because Munoz seems to be....let's see, what won't get me banned...a believer in alternative truths.