United Airlines Forces Man off of oversold flight

[Julie's Haircut]

So question,

how much does it take to get u off the plane? i think if it reached $1000 + free night + free flight next day...

I've settled for much less. And a few times I wanted to volunteer but others practically ran me over to reach the desk first.

Don't forget, after the police assaulted him and dragged him off, he was allowed back on the plane! I hope he sues United and Republic and wins HUGE money. I don't believe in frivolous lawsuits, but he's definitely got a case.

Then he should sue the Chicago Airport Police, where he might prevail. Suing Delta and Republic isn't likely to work, although the airlines would probably offer a settlement.

Maybe, but it's a losing battle. The instructions of a flight crew aboard an aircraft must be followed. I absolutely 100% agree that United handled this poorly and the Airport Police did too, but resisting them is only going to lead to escalation and potentially very severe consequences for the passenger.

1. Ask the passenger to leave.
2. Tell him to leave.
3. MAKE him leave.

What did expect would happen when he refused to cooperate?
.

 

[bellebud]

didn't read the whole thread, so sorry if it's been talked about.

someone said early in the thread "airlines overbook because people don't show up and it costs the airline money". How?? I pay for my tickets online when I book them. If I don't show up, the airline still gets all my money. I'm obviously missing something here... what?

 

[baildrk]

I see a grown man acting like a child when the company that owns the plane tells him to get off, this shows the sickness that is rampant these days. Everyone is owed something and you cannot tell me what to do, if he simply would have listened and gotten off the plane im sure he would have been given maximum restitution that is allowed by law maybe more.
This is no different than someone walking into a store being told to leave then having to be escorted out, and if you are going to throw a hissy fit like a child and not act like a grown man well that's your problem.
Its a private business people, they can refuse you for no reason if they wanted to or state something that is in their policy, once you buy the ticket you agree to THEIR terms and you have no right to believe that you cannot be inconvenienced because you bought a ticket, always read the fine print.

Oh come on!!! You can't be serious. He was dragged off. I don't have to do anything I don't want to. No one has the right to put their hands on me. I can't see how anyone can defend united on this one.

If he would have acted like an adult he wouldn't have been dragged off like a whiny child, he would have walked by himself like a grown man. When you do not obey a lawful order, yes yes they do have the right to puts hands on someone.

 

[mummabear]

United has the right to bump people from oversold flights. Please read the terms of your ticket purchase.

Again:I understand it is there, the question is should they be legally allowed to contract out of providing services for overbooking?

If they don't make it to Louisville with the required rest, they would have to cancel or delay their next flight which would inconvenience a lot more people

So these 4 staff are the only 4 United staff that could possibly staff the flight the next day? And they couldn't a) take another flight either within Inited or with another airline or b) drive the 5 hours?

 

[mummabear]

Everyone is owed something

It's funny right? How I think that when I pay someone for a service that I think I'm owed that service. Crazy!

 

[baildrk]

It's funny right? How I think that when I pay someone for a service that I think I'm owed that service. Crazy!

unfortunately you entered into a contract for service when you buy those tickets, so you agree to all terms and conditions of United or whatever other airline. So you must do what they say, adulting is hard for some people who are over entitled or think they should never be inconvenienced.

 

[Westcoastwild]

Again:I understand it is there, the question is should they be legally allowed to contract out of providing services for overbooking?



So these 4 staff are the only 4 United staff that could possibly staff the flight the next day? And they couldn't a) take another flight either within Inited or with another airline or b) drive the 5 hours?

Probably, knowing the state of the airline industry, they were the only ones that could work that flight. Remember, the employees have rights too- rules about how much rest they get, for instance. Rules about how long one shift can last. And no, I doubt they could get another flight. There are sometimes only a few flights a day between certain destinations. Chances this was the last flight or all flights were full, and they would be involuntarily bumping there too. (The fact they didn't get more volunteers is fairly good indicator that it would be a while until those people could catch the next flight).

And people keep bringing up the driving thing but 1) it would cost them more money that the flights they are always running and 2) it probably intereferes with the above regulations. The employees are their first priority. And I agree with that. No one wants a sleep deprived crew.

I get that customer service is important to people, but jeez, you will have no service at all if the staff can't work. You won't have a business if you abuse your staff. I wouldn't work for a company that prioritized customer satisfaction over my well being.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

So many things United could have done...

1. Keep upping the payout until you have 4 volunteers
2. Not board until you had 4 to give up seats
3. Failing to get volunteers, at least don't board until you randomly picked your 4 poor, unlucky passengers
4. Failing all 3 of the above, once you have everyone on the plane, AND one is refusing to deplane, maybe THINK... engage in some CUSTOMER SERVICE... try to DEFUSE the situation. Maybe even make an announcement that the gentleman randomly selected is a doctor who needs to get back (assuming that's right). Appeal to people to volunteer, offering more $$. You will eventually get someone.
5. Security/officers -- my dad was a cop for 28yrs -- he always talked about how important deescalation is. Always said the most important weapon he had was his problem-solving skills, reasoning, empathy, etc. Seems like perhaps some of this was lacking? Need investigation to determine what happened BEFORE cell video.
6. When/if the person does have to be removed, seems hard to believe that could not have been done more safely.

I really wish the rules/laws around this would change. Increase the cost for the airlines of getting these things so wrong, so routinely (constant overbooking, mismanaging employee movements, etc.) -- i.e. Increase what they need to pay per bump. Problem is they'd pass that cost on to customers... marginally increase the price of tickets for all in order to prevent this (bumping) from happening to a "few".

Ugh.

 

[bcla]

Funny how two little words could have prevented this... "MARKET PRICE"... Increase amount offered until you have a taker. Or 4 takers in this case.

Never mind a $1,350/domestic flight limit (and they didn't even try that high here). http://airport.blog.ajc.com/2017/04/10/airline-bumping-what-are-your-rights/

If they want to overbook and kick people off when they mismanage their crew movements, they should pay whatever the market (the customers on that plane) demand. At some point, they'd SOMEHOW get better at managing all of this...

Most bumping has to do with revenue passengers. Overbooking works most of the time.

I just flew last weekend, and the first thing that popped up when checking in was a request for volunteers to be bumped. I might have taken them up on the offer, although we were traveling on two reservations (one using cancellation credit and another using credit card points).

 

[DebbieB]

So these 4 staff are the only 4 United staff that could possibly staff the flight the next day? And they couldn't a) take another flight either within Inited or with another airline or b) drive the 5 hours?

From what I read, it was the last flight of the day. If they drive the 5 hours, they would likely not meet the rules for crew rest. Louisville is a small airport, they probably do not have extra crew there.

It was handled poorly, they shouldn't have boarded everyone in the first place, but from what I read they had asked his man twice to leave the plane. They tried to talk to him, he refused. The third time they dragged him off. It really came down to a standoff. I don't know the whole story but the bottom line is it's illegal to disobey a flight crew.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

Most bumping has to do with revenue passengers. Overbooking works most of the time.

I just flew last weekend, and the first thing that popped up when checking in was a request for volunteers to be bumped. I might have taken them up on the offer, although we were traveling on two reservations (one using cancellation credit and another using credit card points).

Ok. What I said still stands. In this situation, if they kept upping the price, eventually they would have had 4 takers.

And no video plastered around the world.

 

[bcla]

didn't read the whole thread, so sorry if it's been talked about.

someone said early in the thread "airlines overbook because people don't show up and it costs the airline money". How?? I pay for my tickets online when I book them. If I don't show up, the airline still gets all my money. I'm obviously missing something here... what?

Unrestricted fare or possibly changes/cancellations, although there are change fees.

 

[Pacolovestacos]

So many things United could have done...

1. Keep upping the payout until you have 4 volunteers
2. Not board until you had 4 to give up seats
3. Failing to get volunteers, at least don't board until you randomly picked your 4 poor, unlucky passengers
4. Failing all 3 of the above, once you have everyone on the plane, AND one is refusing to deplane, maybe THINK... engage in some CUSTOMER SERVICE... try to DEFUSE the situation. Maybe even make an announcement that the gentleman randomly selected is a doctor who needs to get back (assuming that's right). Appeal to people to volunteer, offering more $$. You will eventually get someone.
5. Security/officers -- my dad was a cop for 28yrs -- he always talked about how important deescalation is. Always said the most important weapon he had was his problem-solving skills, reasoning, empathy, etc. Seems like perhaps some of this was lacking.
6. When/if the person does have to be removed, seems hard to believe that could not have been done more safely.

I really wish the rules/laws around this would change. Increase the cost for the airlines of getting these things so wrong, so routinely (constant overbooking, mismanaging employee movements, etc.) -- i.e. Increase what they need to pay per bump. Problem is they'd pass that cost on to customers... marginally increase the price of tickets for all in order to prevent this (bumping) from happening to a "few".

Ugh.

How high would you have United go on comp? $2,000? $5,000? $10,000? They offered $800 and a hotel voucher which is more than adequate. The terms of purchase state that the airline will offer compensation to get volunteers. If, after offering compensation, the airline still can't get volunteers, they will bump people. I'm sure nobody wanted to physically remove him but the man left them no choice.

 

[Julie's Haircut]

Totally insane! So many problems with that situation. I hope United pays dearly, not only to/for the victim, but also the others who had to witness such a thing...unreal.

I'm not defending United. They are as far as I'm concerned the worst of the worst when it comes to customer service. But involuntary bumping is standard with every airline, and the guy caused his own injuries when he refused to deplane- and then tried to reboard. It's weird, entitled behavior.

His playing the "I'm a doctor" and "They picked me because I'm Chinese" cards definitely indicated entitled behavior.

They knew they had four crew members who needed to be on that plane. So they knew that they'd have to remove four people from the plane after boarding. They claimed in an announcement to the seated passengers that they were letting the computer choose "randomly" after no one volunteered.

Every time I've seen people bumped (which does happen a lot, you're right), it's happened at the gate, before boarding. I've never seen anyone be seated and then asked to leave the plane. Although now that I've learned it's possible, I won't relax until I'm actually in the air!
)

Hmmmm, Involuntarily Denied Boarding is not SUPPOSED to be randomly chosen. There's supposed to be some criteria, available to passengers upon request, about how IDB will be determined. Such as lowest fare paid, latest to check in, etc

Sometimes IDB does happen after people are on the plane. Usually on small planes due to weather and weight and balance requirements. But in THIS situation, the process should have been completed before boarding.

 

[baildrk]

So many things United could have done...

1. Keep upping the payout until you have 4 volunteers
2. Not board until you had 4 to give up seats
3. Failing to get volunteers, at least don't board until you randomly picked your 4 poor, unlucky passengers
4. Failing all 3 of the above, once you have everyone on the plane, AND one is refusing to deplane, maybe THINK... engage in some CUSTOMER SERVICE... try to DIFFUSE the situation. Maybe even make an announcement that the gentleman randomly selected is a doctor who needs to get back (assuming that's right). Appeal to people to volunteer, offering more $$. You will eventually get someone.
5. Security/officers -- my dad was a cop for 28yrs -- he always talked about how important deescalation is. Always said the most important weapon he had was his problem-solving skills, reasoning, empathy, etc. Seems like perhaps some of this was lacking.
6. When/if the person does have to be removed, seems hard to believe that could not have been done more safely.

I really wish the rules/laws around this would change. Increase the cost for the airlines of getting these things so wrong, so routinely (constant overbooking, mismanaging employee movements, etc.). Problem is they'd pass that cost on to customers... marginally increase the price of tickets for all in order to prevent this (bumping) from happening to a "few".

Ugh.

numbers 1-4 are in a perfect world which this world is far from plus are you going to want to sit on that plane for hours while they try to bribe someone, number 5 I have much experience in this, you dont always have the time you need to get the outcome you want, you ask you tell you make them do what you want, as he seemed to be a functioning adult he said he was a doctor, he should have know the consequences of not listening to authorities, 6 you have been on a plane right, if someone is fighting against you being on a plane would make that exponentially worse, why does everyone have to pandering to, if everyone just acted like adults 90 percent of the time there would be alot less problems in this world.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

How high would you have United go on comp? $2,000? $5,000? $10,000? They offered $800 and a hotel voucher which is more than adequate. The terms of purchase state that the airline will offer compensation to get volunteers. If, after offering compensation, the airline still can't get volunteers, they will bump people. I'm sure nobody wanted to physically remove him but the man left them no choice.

Way higher than $800!!!

First of all, the supposed max is $1,350, and they opted to DRAG A PASSENGER OUT RATHER THAN EVEN OFFER $1,350. Already ludicrous.

To me, having to stay overnight and only leave the following day/afternoon would be worth way more than $1,350.

I can't even remember the last time I flew where they didn't say the flight was "full so check your carry-on bag" or "overbooked so we need volunteers". They are routinely doing this these days to maximize profits.

This is now Greyhound in the sky.

Customer service is at a new low -- and now United is opting to drag passengers out before even hitting the $1,350 max?? Moronic business decision.

Now, if a passenger is violent, dangerous, disruptive and must be removed, different ballgame.

United created this situation. Now they are stuck dealing with it.

 

[Pacolovestacos]

I want to also add that the woman screaming "Oh My God" over and over and over wasn't helping the situation. Not sure what she was trying to do there.

 

[Pacolovestacos]

To me, having to stay overnight and only leave the following day/afternoon would be worth way more than $1,350.

Good for you but you're not the one calling the shots on comp.

United created the situation and now they are stuck dealing with it.

Something tells me they'll survive.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

Good for you but you're not the one calling the shots on comp.

Uh... I know?

 

[baildrk]

Now, if a passenger is violent, dangerous, disruptive and must be removed, different ballgame.

This person was being disruptive to their business, and was told to leave the plane and didn't..... so 2 of the 3 criteria you just said for a different ballgame were met by this incident??????