Union may file a greivance against an Eagle Scout for taking their jobs* WITH AUDIO

[Mrs.Toad]

( hopefully the mods will have mercy on me )

Not advocating BSA postion our disavowing it.

BSA has a standard of morals that it adheres to. If someone does not why would they want to join?

Should I expect the Catholic Church to administer me the sacrament when I am ( ed.)anti theist?
Should I sue them over that? Is it fair just because our morals differ?
Am I being discriminated against or should I go find an organization religous or otherwise that caters to my needs and education?
Should I expect them to change to suit my adgenda?

Apples to oranges. Churches are all about religion and sacraments. It's what they do. A person's religious beliefs are quite relevent to their participation in church sacraments. Boy Scouts, as you have pointed out, do not include anything related to sex or sexual orientation in their program. A person's sexual orientation is not relevent to his participation in community service projects, leadership training, campouts, woodworking, etc.

Why would they want to join? Well, maybe because it is a great organization (other than those two issues). There really aren't a lot of other places to get the same experience, probably none in many areas of the country. Perhaps a boy had been a Scout since 1st grade, had great experiences, been an upstanding member, who has displayed strong morals and earned numerous awards. In the middle of working on his Eagle project he realizes he's gay. Is he supposed to just suddenly forget about all he's learned and done over the previous years, throw it all away, quit his project and quit Scouts because "oh, well, they don't want me anymore, so I guess I don't want them, either"?

Should Rosa Parks have just stayed in the back of the bus because the people up front didn't want there?

We will never see eye to eye on this because we look at homosexuality differently. I do not see it as evidence of immorality, while the BSA clearly does. I am not gay (nor a male), but I can imagine if I were, I would not think of it as a matter of "we have different morals". I would know that I was "morally straight" (straight?), and would disagree with the BSA's assessment of my character based on that one little thing that isn't even relevent to the program.

It's discrimination, and it's wrong.

 

[shrubber]

Apples to oranges. Churches are all about religion and sacraments. It's what they do.
I don't believe many people would say that is a apples to oranges comparison at all. And any church is much more than just about religion an sacrament, however, that issue can become sticky especially here

A person's religious beliefs are quite relevent to their participation in church sacraments. Boy Scouts, as you have pointed out, do not include anything related to sex or sexual orientation in their program. A person's sexual orientation is not relevent to his participation in community service projects, leadership training, campouts, woodworking, etc.true

Why would they want to join? Well, maybe because it is a great organization (other than those two issues). There really aren't a lot of other places to get the same experience, probably none in many areas of the country. Perhaps a boy had been a Scout since 1st grade, had great experiences, been an upstanding member, who has displayed strong morals and earned numerous awards. In the middle of working on his Eagle project he realizes he's gay. Is he supposed to just suddenly forget about all he's learned and done over the previous years, throw it all away, quit his project and quit Scouts because "oh, well, they don't want me anymore, so I guess I don't want them, either"? well, yes, of course, perhaps they could join Learning for Life, sponsored by BSA, but does require adherance to Scout Laws

Should Rosa Parks have just stayed in the back of the bus because the people up front didn't want there?
hardly relevant, talk about apples and oranges, and that is sounds like very thinly veiled attempt at labeling me a racist
We will never see eye to eye on this because we look at homosexuality differently.
I never expressed such an opinion and did not plan to....
I do not see it as evidence of immorality, while the BSA clearly does. I am not gay (nor a male), but I can imagine if I were, I would not think of it as a matter of "we have different morals". I would know that I was "morally straight" (straight?), and would disagree with the BSA's assessment of my character based on that one little thing that isn't even relevent to the program.

It's discrimination, and it's wrong.

So, what your saying is that peoples morals and ethics should never differ?
People and organizations should always live the same moral code.
Just which one excatly?
Give me a break, that's not discrimination, that is a difference of opinion, and the Supreme Court has said so

 

[Mrs.Toad]

hardly relevant, talk about apples and oranges, and that is sounds like very thinly veiled attempt at labeling me a racist

For someone who has no qualms about calling other people liars, you sure take offense easily. My comment was in no way meant to label you. On the contrary, I am confident that you do NOT believe Rosa Parks should have stayed in the back of the bus.

I never expressed such an opinion and did not plan to....

You don’t have to.

So, what your saying is that peoples morals and ethics should never differ?
People and organizations should always live the same moral code.
Just which one excatly?
Give me a break, that's not discrimination, that is a difference of opinion, and the Supreme Court has said so

No, I’m not saying that at all. All I have said here is that I (and many others) find these two BSA policies to be discriminatory and we disagree. This is my opinion, and the constitution gives me the right to say it.

As far as the Supreme Court, do you agree with every one of their decisions? I highly doubt you do (nor any other person on this planet). Heck, even the justices themselves aren’t usually unanimous in their decisions. Should we all stop speaking out against the things we think are wrong just because the Supreme Court has rendered a decision which allows them to continue to occur?

I know you are trying very hard to avoid the real issue, but I don’t think we can. I do not think a person’s sexual orientation is an indicator of his/her morality. I think the BSA is wrong in excluding gay boys and men. I don’t care whether the Supreme Court gives them the right to do so, I can look at the issue and form my own conclusions. I am not suggesting the BSA be forced by the courts to accept gay men, I think they should do so on their own, because it’s the right thing to do. Do I expect that to happen? No, of course not, but I can still voice my opinion on the subject.

 

[shrubber]

For someone who has no qualms about calling other people liars, you sure take offense easily. My comment was in no way meant to label you. On the contrary, I am confident that you do NOT believe Rosa Parks should have stayed in the back of the bus.

You don’t have to.

No, I’m not saying that at all. All I have said here is that I (and many others) find these two BSA policies to be discriminatory and we disagree. This is my opinion, and the constitution gives me the right to say it.

As far as the Supreme Court, do you agree with every one of their decisions? I highly doubt you do (nor any other person on this planet). Heck, even the justices themselves aren’t usually unanimous in their decisions. Should we all stop speaking out against the things we think are wrong just because the Supreme Court has rendered a decision which allows them to continue to occur?

I know you are trying very hard to avoid the real issue, but I don’t think we can. I do not think a person’s sexual orientation is an indicator of his/her morality. I think the BSA is wrong in excluding gay boys and men. I don’t care whether the Supreme Court gives them the right to do so, I can look at the issue and form my own conclusions. I am not suggesting the BSA be forced by the courts to accept gay men, I think they should do so on their own, because it’s the right thing to do. Do I expect that to happen? No, of course not, but I can still voice my opinion on the subject.

Well, at that, I'd like to say that I enjoyed my conversation with you. While we do not agree, I thought that most of your points were well thought out and sincere.

 

[Mrs.Toad]

Well, at that, I'd like to say that I enjoyed my conversation with you. While we do not agree, I thought that most of your points were well thought out and sincere.

Thank you.