Unfathomable: Church Massacre

[Muushka]

Arizona sheriff sending armed posse into black churches

Go Sheriff Joe!

 

[luvsJack]

The same rhetoric that appears in threads like this one certainly helped to shape his web searching that developed into his present world view and drove his actions.

Rhetoric like support and prayers for his victims? No one here has said anything racist.

There was a legal reason why the flag wasn't lowered. If that reason didn't exist, it should have been. They cannot just take it down

There are plenty of white supremacy goups in regions where there is no cofederate flag flown. To blame a flag at a memorial for what this idiot did doesn't make sense.

 

[Muushka]

Focusing on the Confederate flag, to me, is a cop out. As is focusing on guns. Neither the flag nor the guns are the problem.

Mental illness, poor parenting and just plain evil is the problem.

 

[smadath]

You guys are probably too young to remember but churchs especially AA churches are often targets.

I remember when the bomb 16th street baptist in Birmingham. Killed 4 little girls. It was the first time the entire nation got an idea of what was going on in the south. That was in 1963 or 64 can't remember the exact year, I remember folks where stunned that they would attack a church.
My parents darn near put my siblings and me on lockdown.

I read a book called While the World Watched: A Birmingham Bombing Survivor Comes of Age during the Civil Rights Movement about the Birmingham Church Bombing. It was written by Carolyn Muall, who was in the Church when the bomb went off. For those of us who weren't around in those days, it paints a clear picture of what African Americans had to endure during the Civil Rights movement, as seen through the eyes of a young girl. It was an eye-opening, highly recommended read.

 

[JoeA]

Here's the thing, there is no racism against white people. Of course, someone can be a bigot against a white person but racist? No.

Dear Lord please tell me I missed the sarcasm in this post.

To say only white people can be racist is...never mind. If I finished this sentence I would be banned for life from this site.

 

[CPT Tripss]

In the Phoenix area, indications are that not all of the churches involved want posse members patrolling near their pulpits. When told of one pastor's concerns, Arpaio said at a press conference, "But I'll tell you, he's going to get them whether he likes them or not."

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/06/19/sheriff-church-protection/28996519/

Joe is an idiot and an adjudicated violator of constitutional rights.

 

[JoeA]

It's part of a memorial, near the Confederate Soldier Monument. The flag is fixed, not on pulleys.

Please stop using facts on this thread. It is very distracting to several posters.

 

[JPPT1974]

Thoughts and prayers are with those who lost loved ones in this tragedy.

 

[TwoCortWort]

Why don't you have anything against racists? I do.

As far as the trash in the grocery store, did you say anything to them? I would have. I don't think I would even repeat the quote.

To each their own on their beliefs and how they see people. I can't force some one to see things my way. I can only be thankful my parents raised me not to judge people by the color of their skin etc.

No I didn't. I wasn't the only person nearby that heard it said. As I said, around here, you hear that stuff....its just a proven fact around here. I have only ever said something to my aunt's mother in law about using that word, luckily she's finally stopped using it

 

[Uncle Remus]

To each their own on their beliefs and how they see people. I can't force some one to see things my way. I can only be thankful my parents raised me not to judge people by the color of their skin etc.

No I didn't. I wasn't the only person nearby that heard it said. As I said, around here, you hear that stuff....its just a proven fact around here. I have only ever said something to my aunt's mother in law about using that word, luckily she's finally stopped using it

Ever hear this?: All that needs to be done for evil to prevail is that good men do nothing.

 

[luvsJack]

To each their own on their beliefs and how they see people. I can't force some one to see things my way. I can only be thankful my parents raised me not to judge people by the color of their skin etc.

No I didn't. I wasn't the only person nearby that heard it said. As I said, around here, you hear that stuff....its just a proven fact around here. I have only ever said something to my aunt's mother in law about using that word, luckily she's finally stopped using it

Where in the south are you?

I live in the deep south where racism is supposedly rampant and you won't hear things like that here at all. Even those that may still use that word would not be sick enough to say anyone deserved anything.

 

[DebbieB]

I know some white people who I think are racist but would be deeply offended if you said you thought that. For example, there's a woman I see on facebook who "likes" news posts involving criminals, mostly black. She will make comments like "thug" or other names. Then when the story came out about this shooting she posts "he's a sick man, you can't blame a whole race for one person". Then today there's a story about a black woman who hurt her baby niece. She posts "what a piece of s***". Just confirms my opinion of her. And she doesn't live in the south.

 

[JoeA]

I know some white people who I think are racist but would be deeply offended if you said you thought that. For example, there's a woman I see on facebook who "likes" news posts involving criminals, mostly black. She will make comments like "thug" or other names. Then when the story came out about this shooting she posts "he's a sick man, you can't blame a whole race for one person". Then today there's a story about a black woman who hurt her baby niece. She posts "what a piece of s***". Just confirms my opinion of her. And she doesn't live in the south.

I believe people tend to delineate mass murder which is harder for us to grasp v. a single victim crime. Pulling a trigger again, and again, and again, and...is harder to accept then pulling it once.

Simply put, we react differently when the body count is higher.

IMO, people who are saying we're a nation of racists because we call one person a thug and another mentally ill are trying to use the same labels for vastly different scenarios.

If you look back just about all of our mass murders were committed by young white males and mental illness, to a large degree, was/is deeply rooted.

Yes, racism was prevalent in this case, but to deny that mental illness wasn't a prime contributing factor is disingenuous. at best.

 

[kimblebee]

Focusing on the Confederate flag, to me, is a cop out. As is focusing on guns. Neither the flag nor the guns are the problem.

Mental illness, poor parenting and just plain evil is the problem.

I'm going to say my piece and then just keep reading..

I'm not singling you out, but this post caught my eye..

Saying guns are not the problem, IMO, is burying your (collective your) head in the sand. Canada has mental illness, bad parenting, pure evil as well yet has NOWHERE NEAR the gun violence that the U.S. does. Yes, the populations are different (we are roughly 1/10th) but even taking that into consideration the numbers wouldn't match up.

I read somewhere that this was the 140th mass shooting (more than 4 victims) of 2015!

If having someone kill kindergarteners wasn't enough to make you realize there is a real problem, nothing will.

Like I said, this is just my opinion and I'll go back to just reading now. Feel free to ignore this if you want to keep this thread friendly as it should be.

 

[MarcW]

I know some white people who I think are racist but would be deeply offended if you said you thought that. For example, there's a woman I see on facebook who "likes" news posts involving criminals, mostly black. She will make comments like "thug" or other names. Then when the story came out about this shooting she posts "he's a sick man, you can't blame a whole race for one person". Then today there's a story about a black woman who hurt her baby niece. She posts "what a piece of s***". Just confirms my opinion of her. And she doesn't live in the south.

You know after the media pushed the "white Hispanic" Zimmerman thing and then started inflaming the race issues the last few years I've seen many people on Facebook do this, including ex Congressman Allen West who is black.

I don't think it is a race thing as much as it is a "see, the media is lying to you" thing. The media has encouraged the idea that black Americans are in constant mortal danger from white Americans. This had stirred up tensions and is one thing which led to the rioting we have had the last year or so. This is almost completely false. The majority of black murders are caused by other blacks. The majority of black murders perpetrated by whites has to do with drug dealing and domestic violence in multi racial families (so not racism). Front going into a church and killing innocent people *because* of race is actually incredibly rare. If you don't believe me look at FBI crime stats.

I sometimes think there is a faction of American society that likes keeping black people ignorant, fearful and dependent. Like those women who poison their own children, they use what they perceive as marginalized people to get attention for themselves. These people look for any possible imagined micro aggression that they can point to and shriek racism! (Or sexism! Homophobia!) to show everyone else how tolerant and aware of the suffering of others they are. It boosts their ego and gives them status among their own social group. Economists and sociologists call this using a positional good for social signaling.

It's pretty sick that there are people out there that would divide Americans and cause fear and encourage racism on both sides just to give themselves a warm fuzzy feeling whenever they can point to someone and say "Oh, look at them, they aren't as tolerant as I am, they are just a bunch of h8ers!". If the things which divide us are ever resolved whatever would these people do to show others their worth?

 

[JaneBanks]

Dear Lord please tell me I missed the sarcasm in this post.

To say only white people can be racist is...never mind. If I finished this sentence I would be banned for life from this site.

Wow. That's interesting. I don't see anywhere in my statement saying only white people can be racist. Try reading it again.

 

[MarcW]

I'm going to say my piece and then just keep reading..

I'm not singling you out, but this post caught my eye..

Saying guns are not the problem, IMO, is burying your (collective your) head in the sand. Canada has mental illness, bad parenting, pure evil as well yet has NOWHERE NEAR the gun violence that the U.S. does. Yes, the populations are different (we are roughly 1/10th) but even taking that into consideration the numbers wouldn't match up.

I read somewhere that this was the 140th mass shooting (more than 4 victims) of 2015!

If having someone kill kindergarteners wasn't enough to make you realize there is a real problem, nothing will.

Like I said, this is just my opinion and I'll go back to just reading now. Feel free to ignore this if you want to keep this thread friendly as it should be.

Using those stats is disingenuous. The majority of those shootings involved criminal gangs not innocents.

Why do so many Canadians try to push their ideologies on America? I'm happy your happy with your laws. Good for you. I promise never to try smuggling guns, tax cuts, or private health care into Canada, ok?

 

[kimblebee]

Using those stats is disingenuous. The majority of those shootings involved criminal gangs not innocents.

Why do so many Canadians try to push their ideologies on America? I'm happy your happy with your laws. Good for you. I promise never to try smuggling guns, tax cuts, or private health care into Canada, ok?

Canada has gangs too...

 

[JoeA]

Wow. That's interesting. I don't see anywhere in my statement saying only white people can be racist. Try reading it again.

I read it again. You didn't say racism CANT exist against white people. You said there isn't ANY racism against white people.

"There is no racism against white people".

A distinction without a difference, no?

 

[DebbieB]

I believe people tend to delineate mass murder which is harder for us to grasp v. a single victim crime. Pulling a trigger again, and again, and again, and...is harder to accept then pulling it once.

Simply put, we react differently when the body count is higher.

IMO, people who are saying we're a nation of racists because we call one person a thug and another mentally ill are trying to use the same labels for vastly different scenarios.

If you look back just about all of our mass murders were committed by young white males and mental illness, to a large degree, was/is deeply rooted.

Yes, racism was prevalent in this case, but to deny that mental illness wasn't a prime contributing factor is disingenuous. at best.

I'm not denying mental illness was involved, of course it was. I'm not speaking of a nation of racists, I'm speaking about this one particular person. I think she's racist but doesn't even realize that she comes off that way, that's the point I was trying to make. I just don't understand why she feels the need to post these criminal stories and then name call. Of course, these posts are filled with racist comments from others and she jumps on the band wagon. The fact that she joins in these comments is why I think she's a racist. There's also a political side to the origination of these posts, but I can't get into that here. But then this happens, she doesn't name call this guy, saying he's mentally ill and it's not really race related.