Unfathomable: Church Massacre

[Dizlvr]

Thanks for all the explanations.

 

[Rhombus]

I don't want to start anything but I'm curious if there has been an explanation why the confederate flag wasn't lowered with the others? Is it on the same building?

Something I read somewhere said the South Carolina governor doesn't have the authority to order the state flag lowered. She said the order would have to come from the state legislature, or something similar to that.

 

[christineann]

Something I read somewhere said the South Carolina governor doesn't have the authority to order the state flag lowered. She said the order would have to come from the state legislature, or something similar to that.

That is true, but that flag is actually not our state flag. The flag used to be on the statehouse and was removed to an area on the statehouse grounds several years ago. The relocation but not total removal of the flag was spearheaded by Senator Robert Ford, an African American senator who served many years and was considered by many to be very racist. I know him and like him very much, and though I may not always agree with him, I feel that he represented his constituents well. Many in his own party didn't like him because he spoke his mind instead of always going along party lines. He stated many times that the Confederate flag is part of history, and if it reminds people of the Civil War, that is fine with him because the Civil War led to the emancipation of slaves and should be remembered.

 

[CPT Tripss]

They said it would take an act of the legislature to bring it to half mast. I say, then go ahead and act.

To lower it would elevate its status as an official flag.

It's part of a memorial, near the Confederate Soldier Monument. The flag is fixed, not on pulleys.

If it isn't official, and it isn't on a pulley, just take it down.

 

[TwoCortWort]

The flag has been used by racist groups and has more or less been adopted as a symbol by some. I can understand why many are offended by it, and I agree with your post, MarcW.


The suspect has a Constitutional right to a bond hearing, which was before a magistrate judge, who is only authorized to consider bond for a non-capital charge (possession of the weapon during the crime). The bond on that charge was set at $1 million, which is unheard of just about anywhere on that charge alone (which as I noted earlier, is the only charge subject of this bond hearing). The bond hearing was essentially a formality but one that is part of due process afforded to suspects under the Constitution.

FWIW, I have friends who have lived in different parts of the country and would be the object of the racism you note, and they said they choose to live in the South because it is so friendly.

My parents lived in the south part of their childhoods, my mom lived in Memphis during the worst time in history for segagration, but they were both raised very much differently than their friends around them. People in the south are yes very warm and welcoming for the most part, there are a few you will meet that are very much rude and who will try to turn you to the other side. I live outside of Pinehurst, NC which has more transplants from up north and other places, but where I am right now it's a reality of racism is still around.

 

[christineann]

My parents lived in the south part of their childhoods, my mom lived in Memphis during the worst time in history for segagration, but they were both raised very much differently than their friends around them. People in the south are yes very warm and welcoming for the most part, there are a few you will meet that are very much rude and who will try to turn you to the other side. I live outside of Pinehurst, NC which has more transplants from up north and other places, but where I am right now it's a reality of racism is still around.

Are those who you describe the transplants or those born in the South? I agree that it is all about how you were raised, and that is true wherever you are. There is racism everywhere, unfortunately, but we find that in our area, we are all neighbors, no matter what.

 

[luvsJack]

If it isn't official, and it isn't on a pulley, just take it down.

For the reasons in the post above yours. Its part of a memorial. And it has nothing to do with this tragedy.

 

[luvsJack]

My parents lived in the south part of their childhoods, my mom lived in Memphis during the worst time in history for segagration, but they were both raised very much differently than their friends around them. People in the south are yes very warm and welcoming for the most part, there are a few you will meet that are very much rude and who will try to turn you to the other side. I live outside of Pinehurst, NC which has more transplants from up north and other places, but where I am right now it's a reality of racism is still around.

The reality of racism still being around is not, in any way, limited to the south or any other region.

 

[TLSnell1981]

Prayer meetings and peaceful vigils...seems to be the way the community has chosen to mourn and honor the victims. Thankfully, I haven't heard anything about burning buildings or looting.

 

[disneyjunkie]

For the reasons in the post above yours. Its part of a memorial. And it has nothing to do with this tragedy.

A symbol of racism, that had been used across the south to terrorize black people, has nothing to do with a racist committing an act of terror in a souther state???????

 

[MIGrandma]

The world is just getting worse and worse all the time. It is a very sad thing when people aren't even safe in their own church. And I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm so sick of racism, any kind of racism. Racism against black people, against Asians, against Americans, etc. etc. We are all human beings. I don't care what race you are, what religion, man or woman, whatever. It's what's inside a person that counts. It's what's in your heart that matters, not the color of your skin. I just don't understand the hatred, I really don't.

 

[luvsJack]

A symbol of racism, that had been used across the south to terrorize black people, has nothing to do with a racist committing an act of terror in a souther state???????

Are you suggesting that if that flag wasn't there, he wouldn't have done this?

That flag nor any other made him what he is. Where this tragedy took place does not change that.

 

[dinolounger]

If it isn't official, and it isn't on a pulley, just take it down.

It isn't that simple. We are a nation of laws, not mob rule. Per SC law, the legislature has to approve any change to the display of the flag. If a majority of the voting public in SC want a change, they can use the political process to effect that. If people outside SC want to influence that process, they have the constitutional right to lobby/attempt to organize boycotts/etc. But they cannot dictate "just take it down."

BTW, I strongly suspect a majority of those here and the nation at large don't even realize that the flag in discussion is not "the Confederate flag." In fact, I can almost guarantee a majority of Americans can't even identify or describe the actual Confederate flag. Unfortunately, that's what happens when revisionist historians" are allowed to steam clean history textbooks to dilute detail on the antebellum south. It isn't just the existence of the Confederacy they are trying to obliterate, it's the entire history of a huge swath of our nation.

 

[TwoCortWort]

Are those who you describe the transplants or those born in the South? I agree that it is all about how you were raised, and that is true wherever you are. There is racism everywhere, unfortunately, but we find that in our area, we are all neighbors, no matter what.

My dad was born in W. Virginia and my mom N. Dakota, so transplant on one side. But Pinehurst is a resort/retirement area and most are from various places up north....I have only met a few who are from that area. I grew up in Ohio, so I am a transplant. Transplant I mean they weren't born and raised here. I am not trying to say that it's only in the south, because it depends too on how the person was raised, but they may have been raised one way and turned the other. It's all too real to me when I grew up where you only heard the term "racism" in school history books, now I hear racist slurs way too often. I heard some one say that "Those N***** got what they deserved" at the grocery store when talking about the tragedy. It's stuff like that, that makes me sick to my stomach. I have nothing against people who are racist, but when you are raised not to judge a person by the color of their skin, religion, who they are etc it's hard to stomach that people can be that way.

 

[Rhombus]

That is true, but that flag is actually not our state flag. The flag used to be on the statehouse and was removed to an area on the statehouse grounds several years ago. The relocation but not total removal of the flag was spearheaded by Senator Robert Ford, an African American senator who served many years and was considered by many to be very racist. I know him and like him very much, and though I may not always agree with him, I feel that he represented his constituents well. Many in his own party didn't like him because he spoke his mind instead of always going along party lines. He stated many times that the Confederate flag is part of history, and if it reminds people of the Civil War, that is fine with him because the Civil War led to the emancipation of slaves and should be remembered.

Sorry, I misspoke. I should have said the "Confederate flag" could only be lowered by approval of the SC legislature. I know the SC state flag was lowered, and has an image of a palmetto tree on it. Along with what is either a crescent moon or a partial eclipse of the sun.

 

[christineann]

My dad was born in W. Virginia and my mom N. Dakota, so transplant on one side. But Pinehurst is a resort/retirement area and most are from various places up north....I have only met a few who are from that area. I grew up in Ohio, so I am a transplant. Transplant I mean they weren't born and raised here. I am not trying to say that it's only in the south, because it depends too on how the person was raised, but they may have been raised one way and turned the other. It's all too real to me when I grew up where you only heard the term "racism" in school history books, now I hear racist slurs way too often. I heard some one say that "Those N***** got what they deserved" at the grocery store when talking about the tragedy. It's stuff like that, that makes me sick to my stomach. I have nothing against people who are racist, but when you are raised not to judge a person by the color of their skin, religion, who they are etc it's hard to stomach that people can be that way.

We rarely hear the N word around here, and anyone around here that would use it would be called out on it by others who heard it, and deservedly so (I've done so myself when I saw a jerk being ugly to a young cashier). The person who said that statement about this horrifying crime is almost as bad as the murderer. We are all grieving here, and the grace and dignity of the families is an example for all of us. Tomorrow, the regularly scheduled services at Emanuel will go forward. Most of the downtown churches, including mine, will ring their bells in solidarity with Emanuel and in memory of the nine at 10:00 a.m. There are, of course, many other things being done in support of Emanuel, and there are many local fundraisers and funds to benefit the church and the families if anyone is interested. Praying for Emanuel would be appreciated.

 

[Muushka]

My dad was born in W. Virginia and my mom N. Dakota, so transplant on one side. But Pinehurst is a resort/retirement area and most are from various places up north....I have only met a few who are from that area. I grew up in Ohio, so I am a transplant. Transplant I mean they weren't born and raised here. I am not trying to say that it's only in the south, because it depends too on how the person was raised, but they may have been raised one way and turned the other. It's all too real to me when I grew up where you only heard the term "racism" in school history books, now I hear racist slurs way too often. I heard some one say that "Those N***** got what they deserved" at the grocery store when talking about the tragedy. It's stuff like that, that makes me sick to my stomach. I have nothing against people who are racist, but when you are raised not to judge a person by the color of their skin, religion, who they are etc it's hard to stomach that people can be that way.

Why don't you have anything against racists? I do.

As far as the trash in the grocery store, did you say anything to them? I would have. I don't think I would even repeat the quote.

 

[CPT Tripss]

A symbol of racism, that had been used across the south to terrorize black people, has nothing to do with a racist committing an act of terror in a souther state???????

Good point.

It isn't that simple. We are a nation of laws, not mob rule. Per SC law, the legislature has to approve any change to the display of the flag. If a majority of the voting public in SC want a change, they can use the political process to effect that. If people outside SC want to influence that process, they have the constitutional right to lobby/attempt to organize boycotts/etc. But they cannot dictate "just take it down."

BTW, I strongly suspect a majority of those here and the nation at large don't even realize that the flag in discussion is not "the Confederate flag." In fact, I can almost guarantee a majority of Americans can't even identify or describe the actual Confederate flag. Unfortunately, that's what happens when revisionist historians" are allowed to steam clean history textbooks to dilute detail on the antebellum south. It isn't just the existence of the Confederacy they are trying to obliterate, it's the entire history of a huge swath of our nation.

Do you realize how offensive it is for a symbol of the Confederacy to be flying high while other flags are at half staff? How tone deaf that is? And how insensitive the officials defending that appear?
First off, no one is trying to obliterate history by decrying what certain symbols have come to represent.
The action by the SC legislature, just a few years ago, that changed the State's flag and establishe the rules you reference doesn't allow a majority of legislators to change the rules. Nope, a super majority is required - 3/4s.

 

[CPT Tripss]

Are you suggesting that if that flag wasn't there, he wouldn't have done this?

That flag nor any other made him what he is. Where this tragedy took place does not change that.

The same rhetoric that appears in threads like this one certainly helped to shape his web searching that developed into his present world view and drove his actions.

 

[luvsJack]

Why don't you have anything against racists? I do.

As far as the trash in the grocery store, did you say anything to them? I would have. I don't think I would even repeat the quote.

I agree. I have a lot against racists and will call them out on it.