Unfathomable: Church Massacre

[Gumbo4x4]

I agree - but the second component has to be gun control. How can we continue to allow severely mentally disturbed individuals to own firearms? Hell you have to pass a test to drive a car - how about SOME restrictions as to who has a gun. Pass treatment, and a doctor signs off you can get a gun.

The way it works in this country is you are innocent unless proven guilty. BTW, there is no requirement for purchasing a car. You don't have to pass a test, show mental competency, prove that you're not an alcoholic, or even reveal that your license has been suspended. The only requirement for purchasing a car is to obtain the age of 18.

Now, to drive one legally, you have to pass a test, but you are not required to take a class. On the flip side, to legally purchase a new firearm from anyone, a used firearm from out of state, or an in-state used firearm from a dealer, you must submit to a background check. A face to face, in state purchase, from a non-dealer of a used firearm is the only exemption. That's just to BUY it. To carry it concealed or to hunt, you must take a class and pass it (different class & test for each).

 

[lauradis]

Are you aware that you're linking to a site that links to stormfront on its very first page?

Yep but all the rest of the what 56 links work

 

[Gumbo4x4]

Reallyy look at that site

I'm not sure I understand. As sane people, we have to wrap our heads around incidents like this. So we can find a way to explain them to our children, so we can keep them from happening again.

Mental illness shouldn't be used as shorthand for so evil we can't understand- that does a great disservice to the many, many nonviolent people with severe and debilitating mental illnesses.

A fair point, but that IS how it's being used. As in, "He is so evil, he must be nuts".

 

[delyrium]

Not clicking through to anything on that disgusting cesspool of a site. Sorry. I have no idea what worse filth I'll find.

 

[cabanafrau]

Those people didn't just die, they were killed by a racist.

You're damn right people are shouting about it. This **** needs to stop.

I find it sad that people are trying to down play the real reason this occurred.

I find it alarming that anybody thinks it's more important to prioritize one motivation for violence over another, discounting other threats to people's lives because they consider racism as the ultimate offense. No matter what motivates violence the end result isn't good for anybody.

 

[TLSnell1981]

That is NOT the point. The point is how the media and the blogosphere try to explain what happened. Just look at this thread. Poor young man. Must be mentally ill.

No, this poor young man was a racist. And, perhaps mentally ill. But, first and foremost, he was a racist with a racist message to deliver.

Who has said, "poor young man"? He is an evil, sick, twisted, piece of excrement, who was racially motivated. He WANTS to create hate and segregation. Why let him win?

Immediately, the chants began...white racist and gun control. If one doesn't join in, they MUST support this atrocity? Is this the way to change hearts and minds? Is this how we heal?

Nine innocents were brutally murdered, while they prayed. Skin color, religion, gender, etc....isn't important to me. It never entered my thoughts, when I heard this horrific and tragic news.

 

[delyrium]

You are linking to a Nazi site like it has good information.

 

[Mkrop]

Reallyy look at that site

I'm not sure I understand. As sane people, we have to wrap our heads around incidents like this. So we can find a way to explain them to our children, so we can keep them from happening again.

Mental illness shouldn't be used as shorthand for so evil we can't understand- that does a great disservice to the many, many nonviolent people with severe and debilitating mental illnesses.

And to ignore the role mental illness played or did not play in this murder or any others is a disservice as well. It is ignoring what could be a important piece of the puzzle.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

That is NOT the point. The point is how the media and the blogosphere try to explain what happened. Just look at this thread. Poor young man. Must be mentally ill.

No, this poor young man was a racist. And, perhaps mentally ill. But, first and foremost, he was a racist with a racist message to deliver.

NOBODY is saying "poor young man". In this case, "mentally ill"' used in place of "psychotic son of a *****".

And for the record, we had a recent case of a young black mom who murdered her child. On the news channel's FB page BY FAR the most common comment from posters of all races was "mentally ill" or "sick".

 

[lauradis]

You are linking to a Nazi site like it has good information.

Im sorry but that is what google comes up with when you enter black on white mass shootings.

I have no idea what sites are "nazi sites" or hate race site till i read through them.

 

[lauradis]

how about this one.
Not a nazi site its a news story.

 

[Minnesota!]

I struggle with my faith...Catholic. Because of the history, and the present, of what they stand for, cover up, battle against, take a stand against, etc. But, my church has been a source of comfort to me since I was a toddler. I might not agree with all the teachings, beliefs, and ways to go about doing/getting things done. But, I know that in my hour of need, my church is a place of solitude, reflection and safety.

To see this horrible massacre occur in a place where, I assume, these 9 individuals felt the same way....scares me to the core. It would shock me the same as someone doing it at Disney. Somewhere that love and happiness and peacefulness is the way, to have this hatred rear it's head. I just....am blown away.

There are people in this world that I hate - Dylann Roof for one - but, I would never have the ability to equate my hate to taking his life. I do not understand how anyone can hate A RACE. A Race. A Race is a lot of people. How can you hate A RACE? Yes, there are bad black people. There are a hell of a lot of bad white, Asian, Hispanic, and Indian people, too! There are FAR MORE amazing people of every skin tone. How can one generalize so much that hatred for a skin color can take the lives of 9 people who were doing nothing more than showing their faith in their safe place?

I am sure there was some sort of mental snap in his head, but withholding that, the amount of hatred that somehow built up in this coward's heart and head for, what boils down to, skin tone darker than his....I just....I cannot, and will not, ever understand it.

People are people are people are people.

I am just rambling, sorry. I am just so at a loss for the hatred that this person exhibited, over a skin color.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I wonder if he's trying to cover up for his dad by saying he bought the gun himself?

Interesting what his uncle has to say here (and there are a lot of good pictures):

"On Friday, South Carolina Governor Nikki Haley told the Today show that 'we will absolutely will want him to have the death penalty'. His uncle added to ABC News that, if he does get the death penalty, he 'will push the button myself'.

'I'll be the one to push the button. If he's found guilty, I'll be the one to push the button myself,' Carson Cowles said. 'If what I am hearing is true, he needs to pay for it.'

As the search was underway, Roof's uncle, Carson Cowles, said the family was shocked by the killings at the hands of his 'quiet, soft spoken' nephew.

'Nobody in my family had seen anything like this coming,' Cowles said. 'I said, if it is him, and when they catch him, he's got to pay for this.'

He said he had told his sister, Roof's mother, several years ago that Roof was too introverted and worried he was cooped up in his room too much.

'I said he was like 19 years old, he still didn't have a job, a driver's license or anything like that and he just stayed in his room a lot of the time,' Cowles said.

A high school classmate of Roof's, John Mullins, told The Daily Beast that the accused white supremacist killer was 'kind of wild' and a big time prescription drug abuser.

'He used drugs heavily a lot,' Mullins said. 'It obviously harder than marijuana. He was like a pill popper, from what I understood. Like Xanax, and stuff like that.'

Court records reveal that a February drug charge cited Roof's possession of methamphetamine, cocaine and LSD, RadarOnline reports."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3130396/Dylann-Storm-Roof-21-glares-hauled-away-cuffs.html

 

[cabanafrau]

The reason mental illness needs attention isn't to absolve responsibility, far from it. In this case I suspect it is how he got to the point of slaughtering people. I'm not suggesting it means incompetence or lack of criminal responsibility. As a matter of fact, if the detail of hesitation and nearly failing to follow through are accurate I would suggest the prosecutor use that as clear and convincing evidence he understood his actions were wrong, was demonstrably aware of that fact at the time of the crime and acted anyway. Case closed.

Mental illness as a factor is important if the intention is to try to prevent future violence as much as is humanly possible. As I said on page one, I would welcome the day breaking news didn't mean tragedy. Sure would be nice to hear, this just in, researchers have discovered the cure for cancer, instead of the horror that comes with breaking news.

 

[lauradis]

if anyone thinks racism is a one way street your wrong.

This is a link of 10 mins speak that is was on cnn, he had me heart and soul till 2.5 mins in, till he started his rant on how white people are trying to kill all black people.

A professor at North Carolina State University since 2003.

The ending is better....

 

[delyrium]

If you think I'm listening to you like you're a part of any conversation worth having, you're wrong. I'm done with you.

 

[lauradis]

The reason mental illness needs attention isn't to absolve responsibility, far from it. In this case I suspect it is how he got to the point of slaughtering people. I'm not suggesting it means incompetence or lack of criminal responsibility. As a matter of fact, if the detail of hesitation and nearly failing to follow through are accurate I would suggest the prosecutor use that as clear and convincing evidence he understood his actions were wrong, was demonstrably aware of that fact at the time of the crime and acted anyway. Case closed.

Mental illness as a factor is important if the intention is to try to prevent future violence as much as is humanly possible. As I said on page one, I would welcome the day breaking news didn't mean tragedy. Sure would be nice to hear, this just in, researchers have discovered the cure for cancer, instead of the horror that comes with breaking news.

Turn the news off, i swear it does more harm then good...

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Sometimes the Ignore button is your friend on threads like these. (And yes, I use it!)

 

[lovemygoofy]

if anyone thinks racism is a one way street your wrong.

This is a link of 10 mins speak that is was on cnn, he had me heart and soul till 2.5 mins in, till he started his rant on how white people are trying to kill all black people.

A professor at North Carolina State University since 2003.

The ending is better....

Stop advertising hate sites! You aren't justifying your argument so much as you going to be sharing the hate message!

 

[Dizlvr]

Stop advertising hate sites! You aren't justifying your argument so much as you going to be sharing the hate message!

I disagree, people should see what is out there. If the mods feel its inappropriate then they can delete it, but lets get real, that poster isn't sharing hate to spread the message, she's sharing information for those who don't believe its out there.