Uh oh...who heard Sherri Shepherd on the View today?

[kaytieeldr]

I'll trade your disabilities this second for my cancer so please don't talk to me about walking in THAT shoes.

I'm totally
Trade disabilities? "My disability is worse than yours"? I know your English isn't great, but I have NO idea how you got this out of what I posted! My point was, when I do 'skip the line' at the direction of a Cast Member - NOT EVER at my request - I miss most, if not all, the theming of the attraction. I WANT to go through the mainstream queue!!!

Pirates of the Caribbean: I can't. As I said, and again, NOT in any way seeking sympathy, I can't maneuver myself any great distance in a wheelchair - especially on any kind of incline - and PotC can't accommodate an ECV. I've ridden it once in six years at WDW, and only because I was (slightly) injured elsewhere in the park and two managers there arranged for an Adventureland manager to accompany me.

Rock 'N Roller Coaster: Once, the CM said I needed to transfer to a wheelchair; I explained again about being alone and was directed to go through the exit. I don't recall what there is about the mainstream queue that prevents an ECV from fitting. I ALSO don't remember anything about the queue theming, or the preshow... The other time, I was approaching the FastPass machines and the CM told me not to bother, just to go through the exit.

Tower of Terror: First time, I did go through the regular queue. All the way through. It was an EMH night, and I was on an ECV. Nobody stopped me. I got to see the hotel lobby, got to experience the preshow, right along with everyone else just as I expected Two days later, no go. I was escorted to the exit (ToT opened late that day). Again, I NEVER asked to skip the 'line', not that there was one that day
Second time, different trip: when I couldn't take the ECV through the mainstream queue, I went - nicely - to Guest Services. Nobody would allow me to do what I wanted, but they arranged for a Cast Member to wheel me with the rest of the Guests - yes, I know, VERY unusual.
Third time, again not allowed to use the ECV in the queue, another polite trip to Guest Services... honestly, I'm not asking for a lot. I'm asking for what almost everybody else gets - mainstream access, but using an ECV. Why can't I use an ECV in lines where it either seems to me that I could? After all, I've done it at ToT, and surely the queues at Test Track and Buzz Lightyear are much harder to navigate. Well, WDW can't say 'yes' to some ECV users and 'no' to others - primarily those using the larger, bulkier, WDW-owned ones!

 

[starstruck93]

I have'nt read through this entire thread but I have a friend whose child has asthma and get's a "special" pass (I'm not sure what they're called, sorry) but she never has to wait in line. She told me that Disney did not require her to show proof of his illness from the Dr., she just went to the CS counter and they gave it to her; very willingly she added.... this was in Disneyland. She contacted me on Facebook and told me about it because my son has asthma too..... However, DS's asthma is cold/flu/virus induced....he only gets it when he's sick... DH said we will NOT be getting a pass... there's nothing wrong with DS waiting in line.

 

[kaytieeldr]

As soon as you can answer me in perfect Fench,German or Dutch. My spell checker did find also spelling errors in you perfect writing.

The language used on this board is English; it's not necessary for anybody to respond in any other language except when posting on the Spanish subforum. You may want to have your spell checker updated; mine found no spelling errors, and only one possible punctuation omission.

Just a fresh view from an outsider to this total rotten ADA system

Not even close.

 

[kaytieeldr]

While I don't disagree with any of your sentiments, the ADA was not created to make citizens equal, but rather to protect those with disabilities from discrimination. It's semantics, and I'm sure you knew this already,

I do, but I haven't slept well lately - and coming home to read what I did got me upset. Thank you VERY much for the clarification. Feel free to follow me around and correct me ANY time! (I can't pay you, though )

 

[melancholywings]

Just a fresh view from an outsider to this total rotten ADA system

It's not a 'fresh' view it's an ignorant and uneducated view point. And it makes me feel sorry for you because I can't imagine being so visibly bitter, or getting off on trolling parents and persons who are disabled.

And I'm sorry you have(or had?) cancer but it doesn't excuse your mistreatment (and lack of compassion) for others.

 

[SueM in MN]

It's not a 'fresh' view it's an ignorant and uneducated view point. And it makes me feel sorry for you because I can't imagine being so visibly bitter, or getting off on trolling parents and persons who are disabled.

And I'm sorry you have(or had?) cancer but it doesn't excuse your mistreatment (and lack of compassion) for others.

I am typing on my tiny iPod screen, so please forgive any typos.

I was to Disneyland Paris in Nov of 2007 and when I returned (with a copy of their Guidebook for Guests with Disabilities), I made the observation that the older part of the park, which is similar to MK or Disneyland, had very few attractions which were wheelchair accessible through the regular line and did require guests with wheelchairs to skip the entire line and go through the exit to board. There was no way for wheelchairs to fit through the lines.

This is similar to how all of WDW was when we first started going there in 1988 with a child using a wheelchair.
Over the years, the 2 older WDW parks and Disneyland had accessibility added with wider lines and 'Mainstream Access' to new or renovated attractions.

• In some attractions, the whole line was accessible from beginining to end (think of Soarin' and Alladin as examples where guests with wheelchairs and ECVs can wait in the same line with other guests thru the whole line, boarding and exit).
• Some attractions have lines that are accessible until boarding. In those guests with wheelchairs, and in some cases ECVs, can wait in the regular line until the point of boarding where they are routed to another place for boarding (think Buzz Lightyear, Imagination, Dinosaur, Haunted Mansion, Small World, Safari, Splash Mountain, among many others ). This is because the ADA does set guidelines for what is necessary for accessibility. These attractions were able to meet the guidelines for the lines being accessible, but not the boarding or unload area. There is something that makes it not all accessible, such as stairs in Dinosaur and Splash Mountain. Guests with wheelchairs get to a point where they can't physically go any farther and that is when the separate route begins. This access is also used by people without wheelchairs when the obstacle for wheelchairs is also an obstacle for them (such as stairs or moving walkways).
• Other attractions have a separate, but parralel line for guests with wheelchairs and ECVs. This is sometimes because there are very limited number of wheelchair spots (think Tiki Room, Mickey's Philharmagic and Laugh Factory) and CMs need to know how many guests needing those spots they have left in so they don't have more waiting than spots in the show. This has happened to us in some shows where they did not count correctly and had to send a group straight thru the show theater and out the exit without seeing the show. Sometimes some guests are able to transfer to a regular seat and leave one of the wheelchair spots for someone who is not able to, but if the show is full of guests already sitting in seats, they will not be able to. These parallel lines are also used as a ‘quieter waiting area’ for some guests who need separation from other guests (like people with autism, for example). Using these for shows doesn’t get the guest in any faster since everyone is waiting for the same show.
• some attractions were not able to be made accessible in either the line or boarding and have a separate access for guests with wheelchairs/ecvs. In these cases, there is a separate waiting area. My family personally has had to wait approximately as long in these as we would have if we had been in the regular line - think the Teacups and Dumbo. In the 'way past' guests were taken quickly to board from those areas, but that has not been our experience ( or that of frequent visitors who post on the disABILITIES Board and some who have posted on this thread. The largest number of these attractions are in Fantasyland at WDW and in older attractions at Disneyland. This is mostly because there was not space or it was possible from an engineering standpoint to change those attractions.
• The changes to the 'regular' access method are not 'perks' to being disabled, as certain posters seem to think, but are the only way people with disabilities are able to get in. In some cases, this means an extra wait for guests with disabilities ( such as the Safari).
  [*]ADA construction and access guidelines set minimum requirements for what is considered accessible. The GOAL is mainstream accessibility as much as possible, and mainstream to the point of an obstacle if full mainstream is not possible.

The Studio and AK at WDW and Disney's California Adventure at Disneyland were built with almost all Mainstresm access.
Although Disneyland Paris is not subject to the American ADA, is was built to similar guidelines and has almost all Mainstream access.

The ADA is a civil rights law. The US is huge and each county in each state did things a little differently. The ADA was an attempt to make sure people with disabilities had a minimum idea of what to expect. Before the ADA, here are some things my own family experienced.

• a museum in South Dakota where the main entrance (and most accessible) was outside and had a fligth of stairs. DH and I carried DD in her wheelchair up the flight of stairs to get in and down to get out.
• Restaurants where tables had to be moved to let us in and we were trapped unless the guests sitting at those tables agreed to get up.
• Restrooms where a wheelchair did not fit through the door, or once we got in, there was no stall that a wheelchair fit into (or even close enough to the toilet so DD could use it). Since DD can't walk at all, this was a problem for us.
• A school where DD was told she was not welcome because 3rd graders had classrooms upstairs and it would "hurt their feelings" to have one classroom of 3rd graders downstairs so DD could be included ( and keep in mind that she was in Kindergarten then, so there would be plenty of time for these kids to prepare to stay downstairs for the good of all)
• a local theme park where we paid our money and then had to go to Guest Relations with a list of attractions checked that she would be able to ride. We were told that even though others might be accessible, they would be checking our list and would not allow DD on them. DD spent the whole day watching her sister and friends in line ( from outside the line, since the lines were not accessible).
• A swimming pool where we went to the changing area and found it was up 2 steps. I maybe could have gotten the wheelchair up the steps, but when I walked up to check, none of the changing areas would fit a wheelchair, so DD would have had to undress in the open area. In view of everyone and possibly in view of people outside, since there was no door to the room. When I went to the desk to ask nicely if there was somewhere else DD could undress and get into her swim suit, the response I got was "those people don't swim.”

Those are just some examples of things (besides job discrimination) the ADA was meant to address. So, unless you know these things, you know nothing about the ADA.
Some things included in rhe ADA benefit others as well making things accessible.

• Have you ever used a curb cut with a stroller? Thank the ADA.
• Have you noticed wider aisles in your local stores? Thank the ADA.
• Have you ever used a handicapped accessible toilet stall or Companion Restroom for any reason ( like a child in a stroller or because you like a wider stall)? Thank the ADA.

Most people with disabilities are not looking for special treatment, just what we need to help meet our needs related to a disability met.
I know this is not the same system as in Europe (I have in the past gotten PMs from European guests asking if they should bring their 'certified disability card' with them so they can get a discount or get special treatment. When I explain this is not how it works in the US and that we don't have 'certified disabled' most are fine with it they uderstand that different places do things different ways and don't berate us because the US is not the same as Europe.

 

[princessmom29]

Do you think it's possible, based on what people like ireland nicole and SueM have posted, that the people with whom you've spoken THINK they bypassed the wait because they physically bypassed the line? I've described my own 'bypass the line' experience at KS (as has SueM); the next-to-last night Pleasure Island was open, I physically bypassed the line at Adventurers Club and sat just outside the door, waiting for my friends in line to reach the same spot so we could enter the club.

I also regularly get split off from the line at Dinosaur, only to be forced to wait on the upper level... and wait... and wait... while Guests pour down the stairs and board immediately, because there are too many wheelchair Guests on the attraction already.

Re: the bolded section. Respectfully, your experiences are conversations; ours are our actual lives.

Not just conversations. I actually waited in line up to a certain point with many of these parties. They were finished with the ride before us more often than not. The earlier they were pulled from the regular line the faster they were finished typically. So while they may be pulled somewhere else to wait, that wait is still shorter than if they had waited with everyone else. Again, this is not true of all rides, and not every time but in general my observation seemed to be that on the whole wheelchair parties waited less than the regular line. It is more pronounced in the older areas where wheelchair access is more limited. I don't understand why my observations continue to be discarded because I am not actually in a WC or with a person that is. Just because I didn't ride with them doesn't mean I didn't see them join the line with us and come out of the ride 10 min before I boarded, which is what I saw many times, especially on the fantasyland rides. I don't know how not being physically with them changes the fact that I saw them go in and I saw them come out, all while I was waiting in line. The vast majority of the lines for fantasyland are outdoor, so it is really easy to observe this kind of thing.

 

[bumbershoot]

I don't understand why my observations continue to be discarded because I am not actually in a WC or with a person that is.

Because you are only noticing the people you notice.

And because telling people out there in cyberspace or IRL that this is fact, not just what you've noticed at certain times on certain rides on certain days is harmful to the GAC system, and could also cause bad feelings from those that you say it to. I mean, someone who is going to scam the system doesn't get much sympathy from me, but they would have an expectation, and if the expectation isn't met, they might end up mad at you, if they have the experience the cards are supposed to give people (vs what you noticed when you noticed it).

So just stop noticing those people, and look at other things instead. I mean, the one time I noticed a stranger at Disneyland waiting for the Nemo ride, I noticed that the grandma in a wheelchair was waiting just outside the loading area, and her daughter and grandson were right near me, and when they got to the approximate spot of the grandma, the CM let grandma in, and they were in the EXACT spot they would have been, in relation to me, as if grandma had gone through the line with them. It was very very cool, fair, equitable, and none of them seemed to feel angry OR like they'd gotten one over. So that was my ONE observation. I'm sure others have seen different. I know the way it's supposed to work, and i'm never going ot tell others that it might work better, b/c that's all up to the exact conditions happening on that ride, that moment, that day...

 

[SueM in MN]

And the things that you don’t notice - like in May at Nemo at the Seas in Epcot, we were in the same line as everyone else up to the actual boarding walkway. At that point, we were pulled up into a small area just in front of the boarding area to wait.
After a few minutes, I decided to count people who passed us by to board while we were waiting there. It was not particularly busy, but over 100 people passed us as we sat there waiting to board.
There are quite a few like that, where the pull off point is close to the regular boarding area. Buzz Lightyear is on example and Imagination is another.

You MAY see guests waiting a shorter time at some of the older attractions, mostly at MK. No one has denied that. I can tell you that people assume we get right on without waiting at MK and that has not been our experience.

But, there have been lots of people over the years who have posted that they thought guests with wheelchairs got on a lot sooner UNTIL they had to use a wheelchair themselves because of a temporary injury.
Their estimate, pretty consistently over the past 5 years, was that on about 20-25% of attractions, they got on sooner, but often not by much. In about 40-50% of attractions, they got on in the same time. And in the rest, they had to wait longer, sometimes much longer - a 30-40 minute wait for the Safari, after the pull off point, after having waited in line is not unusual.

So, if you see a shorter wait, you are generally seeing one of the older attractions that are not accessible.
For some, like Small World, where the pull off point is early in the line, they can’t pull off guests with wheelchairs any later because of needing to cross the water. I have heard that when they renovated Small World the last time, they did plan a different access that would have allowed guests with wheelchairs to stay in the regular line, but it was not allowed by the Fire Marshall on one of the last inspections because it was not safe.
When pulled off for Small World, the guest with a wheelchair may be lucky and have no one waiting in the accessible waiting area; if they are able to get out of the wheelchair to board a boat, they may get on quickly. But, they may also find a long line, past the turn and will have a long wait - we do need the accessible boat and have already waited there for 25 minutes because there was only one accessible boat running and many other guests in front of us. This was when the ‘regular’ line was getting on as fast as they could walk and quite a few boats were being sent out with empty seats.
Those are the times you are not noticing, as bumbershoot pointed out.

Sometimes it can work the way that bumbershoot mentioned, but often those older attractions do not have a place (or space to make a place) where part of the party can wait while the rest goes through the line.

 

[tjmw2727]

Not just conversations. I actually waited in line up to a certain point with many of these parties. They were finished with the ride before us more often than not. The earlier they were pulled from the regular line the faster they were finished typically. So while they may be pulled somewhere else to wait, that wait is still shorter than if they had waited with everyone else. Again, this is not true of all rides, and not every time but in general my observation seemed to be that on the whole wheelchair parties waited less than the regular line. It is more pronounced in the older areas where wheelchair access is more limited. I don't understand why my observations continue to be discarded because I am not actually in a WC or with a person that is. Just because I didn't ride with them doesn't mean I didn't see them join the line with us and come out of the ride 10 min before I boarded, which is what I saw many times, especially on the fantasyland rides. I don't know how not being physically with them changes the fact that I saw them go in and I saw them come out, all while I was waiting in line. The vast majority of the lines for fantasyland are outdoor, so it is really easy to observe this kind of thing.

I think the difference is that if you saw that same exact same party over and over again or spent the day with them as opposed to just watching them once you would often see them wait as long or longer.

Yes some of the fantasyland lines are shorter with a WC but some of the other lines are as long or longer. You also have to sit at the rear of some shows or wait for the next show even as other guests enter as the wc accessable area is smaller.

If you saw me when my neice was having a meltdown over something silly you may assume that we are horrible family or she is a brat while neither is the truth. That may be her only meltdown over 5 days of a fabulous vacation.

What people are saying is that YES you really do have to spend at least a day with someone who needs a GAC or WC to see what it is really like.

 

[kaytieeldr]

I don't understand why my observations continue to be discarded because I am not actually in a WC or with a person that is. Just because I didn't ride with them doesn't mean I didn't see them join the line with us and come out of the ride 10 min before I boarded, which is what I saw many times, especially on the fantasyland rides. I don't know how not being physically with them changes the fact that I saw them go in and I saw them come out, all while I was waiting in line. The vast majority of the lines for fantasyland are outdoor, so it is really easy to observe this kind of thing.

We understand you saw what you saw. By now, we hope from what you've read here that you understand that's done NOT AT ALL for the convenience of the Guest in the wheelchair, but because of the way the line is designed.

I'll say it again - when I've been directed to alternate entrances, it's NOT because that's what I want. I WANT TO USE THE MAINSTREAM QUEUE. I WANT to see the attraction theming. I WANT to know the backstory. I WANT to see the preshow. Walt Disney World won't let me, because I travel alone in an ECV and don't have enough upper body strength to handle inclines in a wheelchair.

Even when I've been able to take the ECV all the way to a loading area - i.e. Splash Mountain - I was told I had to board a log RIGHT THEN, that the Cast Member didn't have time for me to decide when I was ready to ride

If wheelchair Guests wait elsewhere, and there's ONE vehicle on an attraction that's designated for disabled Guests - let's say there's a single Doom Buggy used as the one the CMs stop for Guests who need additional time to board and debark, say number eight - well, if number eight comes along the tracking just after a Guest who needs everything stopped to transfer shows up... doesn't it make sense to put that person in that Doom Buggy, even if there are a hundred and fifty other Guests in line?

 

[Jessica14]

My DH has cerebral palsy. It does not effect his mental capacity in any way, but it effects his mobility. For WDW and other places where there is a lot of walking involved, he uses crutches. He occassionally loses his balance and crashes onto the street, floor, pavement, wherever he is. At the time of our last trip, I looked into the GAC and talked to a CM. She sent out pamphlets that described the ways the boarding worked on every ride. It was most helpful and my husband did not want the GAC. The reason I thought it might be necessary is because over the years, many people seem offended that he is using crutches or moving a bit too slow for them. He has been shoved and pushed in crowds (on purpose) and gotten the stink eye from those who felt he was not entitled to a handicapped parking pass because apparently he "looks" able bodied. Even upon seeing the crutches and the unusual way he walks, he still gets dirty looks. The only "preferential" treatment we got was from a CM at Festival of the Lion King, where we were placed in the front row. We never asked for this, but it was quite helpful as stairs in a crowd can be trecherous.

Before the ADA, my husband had been in a WC at one point and could not use the bathroom on his college campus (an 8 hour day) because there were no bathrooms that would accomodate a WC.

I'm continuely amazed at how some people can't get past themselves and say "Hey, I'm glad that person can see/do what I do." My DH issues are minimal compared to some, yet why people feel it necessary to decide that he is not handicapped enough to get a something that might make the experience safer is beyond me. I have seen parents at theme parks with their teen/young adult profoundly mentally disabled children meeting the characters. Can you imagine that your 18 year old is still thrilled to be meeting Cookie Monster because that is all they are mentally capable of? The ADA had made these experiences possible by creating ways for the WC to get in and out of places. It has also let these children be more visible so that we can all learn that every human is valued, not just those who can walk and talk in a "typical" way. Sorry to all of those who see otherwise-and I know some of you might say "Well, I don't mean those who are "truly" disabled. It's not up to you to make that determination. Be happy that you have the capability to wait 90 minutes to ride TSM.
Jessica

 

[Indiana Rose Lee]

The last time I was in DL in an ecv I was on my own. I didn't get to ride several rides because while I could have transferred into a wc, I could not go up the ramp. My arms were not strong enough.

The people who think it is a perk haven't lived it. I think they should. Miss "i should rent a chair to get fotl access" should give it her best shot and see how it goes. I suspect that she wouldn't last 3 hours. She isn't worth the frustration, and is just trolling around. If you read old posts you will see that she or he (whatever) pops up on these threads often.

 

[princessmom29]

Because you are only noticing the people you notice.

And because telling people out there in cyberspace or IRL that this is fact, not just what you've noticed at certain times on certain rides on certain days is harmful to the GAC system, and could also cause bad feelings from those that you say it to. I mean, someone who is going to scam the system doesn't get much sympathy from me, but they would have an expectation, and if the expectation isn't met, they might end up mad at you, if they have the experience the cards are supposed to give people (vs what you noticed when you noticed it).

So just stop noticing those people, and look at other things instead. I mean, the one time I noticed a stranger at Disneyland waiting for the Nemo ride, I noticed that the grandma in a wheelchair was waiting just outside the loading area, and her daughter and grandson were right near me, and when they got to the approximate spot of the grandma, the CM let grandma in, and they were in the EXACT spot they would have been, in relation to me, as if grandma had gone through the line with them. It was very very cool, fair, equitable, and none of them seemed to feel angry OR like they'd gotten one over. So that was my ONE observation. I'm sure others have seen different. I know the way it's supposed to work, and i'm never going ot tell others that it might work better, b/c that's all up to the exact conditions happening on that ride, that moment, that day...

I think you missed the point of WHY I was watching, and I never said ti was anything other than my observation over the course of a week. I never claimed that it was the case at all times or on all rides, ever. I was asked by several families I know with disabled members to observe the disabled access and report back. There was a purpose to watching what was going on and talking to parties with a disabled member. By and large the report I got was that they did not wait as long as the regualar line on most rides, but waited longer on some. It depended on how the que was structured, most rides had a shorter wait time in the WC line. Shows were little different, and some rides were significantly longer wait because there are few disabled access vehicles. I talked to multiple families over the course of a week as my own sort of survey to take back to my friends. I don't know why multiple familes would all have cause to lie to me??? My argument is ONLY that Disney needs to clarify their policy about FOTL access that WC parties are getting on some rides. They state that there is never FOTL access for WC. They state that they are to board according to their place in the regular line, but obviously that is not the case on many rides. In observing the familes of WC gusets I also saw a fair amount of nastiness directed thier way by people who were put out by them being given preferred access. I think that if Disney outright stated that it was their policy to do this then mabye, just mabye, there would be less ugliness for those in need of a WC to have to deal with. I think Disney may be creating part of the backlash by denying that they are aking those in a WC to board ahead of the line.
At the beginnig of the thread someone stated that there was NEVER FOTL acess for WC's and I simply reported that I have observed otherwise and th discussion continued from there.

 

[seashoreCM]

I My argument is ONLY that Disney needs to clarify their policy about FOTL access that WC parties are getting on some rides. They state that there is never FOTL access for WC. They state that they are to board according to their place in the regular line, but obviously that is not the case on many rides. In observing the familes of WC gusets I also saw a fair amount of nastiness directed thier way by people who were put out by them being given preferred access. I think that if Disney outright stated that it was their policy to do this then mabye, just mabye, there would be less ugliness for those in need of a WC to have to deal with. I think Disney may be creating part of the backlash by denying that they are aking those in a WC to board ahead of the line.here.

Disney can't overtly confess it is giving disabled folks preferential treatment without being more conscientious about actually doing so as opposed to the current hit or miss method.

Perhaps if Disney Security pulled aside those folks exhibiting nasty behavior and interrogated them and had them explain themselves orally, that may get them thinking about not behaving that way.

 

[Indiana Rose Lee]

You spent your vacation quizzing others? WTH? Why would anyone ever do that? What a busybody, and what a waste of precious vacation time!

As for anything changing the ugliness of people, this thread and those like it are proof that some people are just looking for an excuse to be ugly.

 

[princessmom29]

You spent your vacation quizzing others? WTH? Why would anyone ever do that? What a busybody, and what a waste of precious vacation time!

As for anything changing the ugliness of people, this thread and those like it are proof that some people are just looking for an excuse to be ugly.

Ok, one more time. As I have said now on 3 occasions I was asked by a couple of families to check out the disabled access while we were there and report back. 5 min out of my vacation to do a favor for a friend was no big deal to me. I don't mind helping soemone who asks me. My time is never that precious, even on vacation. When we encounted a family with a member in a WC and were otherwise making ocnversation I asked aobut access to rides. I watched when I could how loading and unloading of WC's worked. It was not hard, did not take a lot of time and was not overly intrusive to anyone.

 

[kaytieeldr]

My argument is ONLY that Disney needs to clarify their policy about FOTL access that WC parties are getting on some rides. They state that there is never FOTL access for WC. They state that they are to board according to their place in the regular line, but obviously that is not the case on many rides.

Disney DOES clarify their policy. As with any policy, it's necessary for there to be exceptions. Walt Disney World (ditto for Disneyland) isn't going to advertise an attraction by attraction list*. It's NOT front of the line access. It's convenience access for Walt Disney World/Disneyland.

Disney treats all Guests as equally as possible. When a Guest is directed to an alternate entrance (not 'pulled from the line') it's because they can't fit or maneuver through the mainstream queue due to ITS design. Period.

A great example is Living with the Land. When there's a long line for that, a Cast Member will hand out written Fast Passes to Guests in ecvs, to come back at a time about equal to what the wait would be. When they return, they're directed through the former FastPass lane - a pretty straight shot (two ninety degree turns) to the loading platform. Why? Well, it's too hard (dangerous for some) to snake around all the turns in the mainstream queue. So this may LOOK like FOTL access - but no. It's somebody waiting 45 minutes like everyone else, just somewhere else.

I also saw a fair amount of nastiness directed thier way by people who were put out by them being given preferred access.

Ah, so it's not enough to be disabled and need to be in, or at least need to tour theme parks in, a wheelchair or ECV; but disabled Guests also need to deal with nastiness from other Guests over what those Guests percieve as preferred access - and that's fair HOW? While I, and probably others, still disagree over this so-called 'preferred' treatment - don't you think the one MORE than balances the other?

*They do publish such a list, by the way - it's the Guide for Guests with Disabilities, and it indicates, for the most part, how such Guests board each attraction. There are even exceptions to these, which some of us have tried explaining several times, based on personal experience.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Ok, one more time. As I have said now on 3 occasions I was asked by a couple of families to check out the disabled access while we were there and report back. 5 min out of my vacation to do a favor for a friend was no big deal to me.

Respectfully, everything you discovered sounds like it took a lot more than five minutes. Truly. Observing how wheelchair GUESTS - not wheelchairs, but the PEOPLE IN THEM - were directed through or around the lines and how those Guests were boarded and unloaded from the attractions would have been, frankly, very difficult unless the parks were very slow. If business were light enough that it was possible to observe the SAME Guest from entry into the line to being unloaded from that attraction, in most cases, well, they and their party DIDN'T AFFECT the wait of the others in line.

Yes, I realize FantasyLand and certain other attractions would be exception. MOST of Walt Disney World, however, would not.

 

[melancholywings]

The ADA is a civil rights law. The US is huge and each county in each state did things a little differently. The ADA was an attempt to make sure people with disabilities had a minimum idea of what to expect. Before the ADA, here are some things my own family experienced.

• a museum in South Dakota where the main entrance (and most accessible) was outside and had a fligth of stairs. DH and I carried DD in her wheelchair up the flight of stairs to get in and down to get out.
• Restaurants where tables had to be moved to let us in and we were trapped unless the guests sitting at those tables agreed to get up.
• Restrooms where a wheelchair did not fit through the door, or once we got in, there was no stall that a wheelchair fit into (or even close enough to the toilet so DD could use it). Since DD can't walk at all, this was a problem for us.
• A school where DD was told she was not welcome because 3rd graders had classrooms upstairs and it would "hurt their feelings" to have one classroom of 3rd graders downstairs so DD could be included ( and keep in mind that she was in Kindergarten then, so there would be plenty of time for these kids to prepare to stay downstairs for the good of all)
• a local theme park where we paid our money and then had to go to Guest Relations with a list of attractions checked that she would be able to ride. We were told that even though others might be accessible, they would be checking our list and would not allow DD on them. DD spent the whole day watching her sister and friends in line ( from outside the line, since the lines were not accessible).
• A swimming pool where we went to the changing area and found it was up 2 steps. I maybe could have gotten the wheelchair up the steps, but when I walked up to check, none of the changing areas would fit a wheelchair, so DD would have had to undress in the open area. In view of everyone and possibly in view of people outside, since there was no door to the room. When I went to the desk to ask nicely if there was somewhere else DD could undress and get into her swim suit, the response I got was "those people don't swim.”

Those are just some examples of things (besides job discrimination) the ADA was meant to address. So, unless you know these things, you know nothing about the ADA.
Some things included in rhe ADA benefit others as well making things accessible.
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I just wanted to say your post will forever stick with me.