Ughh.....my daughter was offensive.....

[gepetto]

No one has brought up the point that we only have the daughter's version of the story.

You are wrong. We have is the adult friend's version.

Thanks. Hubby called friend's mom to check on them and friend's mom relayed the incident.

Perhaps you might need a little reading remediation yourself.

 

[AC7179]

Oh, one more thing. The other things she has said that could be taken offensively this year is when one of her friends asked her if she could spend the night, my daughter said, "I have to see if my parents want you to." Meaning, of course, if she had permission. That one really wasn't even a snotty comment, more of her wording wasn't appropriate, but still, sounded pretty bad. I can't remember the other one but it was along those lines.

I was (am) very upset about the situation but have handled it the best way I knwo how and have hoped she learned a lesson.

 

[Sheree Bobbins]

I'm with those who say this was an "off-the-cuff" remark by a young person. There was no need to humiliate her in public. Your friend is in the wrong. You shouldn't worry about further outings with her if that's the way the friend acts. Instead concentrate on building back your daughter's self-worth. Stand-up for your daughter.

 

[momof2inPA]

I was thinking this, too... How can the OP even accept what her dd says, especially if this has happened twice or 3 times before?

True. This might have been the tenth or twentieth rude comment the daughter had made during the course of the day, and maybe the woman just had enough. The mom's friend had a point. The comment was rude, whether the worker heard it or not. Afterall, is it ok to make fun of blacks and hispanics when they aren't around or only poor/ uneducated people? I'm a little surprised at all the "Christian" DISer's who think comments like that are harmless and acceptable. I would never put up with my kids saying something like that.

I think it was a good lesson for the kid and one that she's better off learning now than when she's an adult. She should think before she speaks.

 

[robinb]

LOL, the snobbery thread.

Telling your kids that they'll end up flippng burgers if they don't go to college. Great parenting.

I "flipped burgers" when I was a teen. That experience made it abundantly clear that I needed to go to college. Working at McDonalds is a dead-end job. So were many of my pre-college and college jobs.

I think encouraging my child to go to college does make me a great parent. I would not hesitate to tell my DD that she needs to go to college or she might end up in a dead-end job. If using the specter of working fast food as an adult makes me "snobby", then so be it.

 

[O2BNWDW]

Off topic but wanted to post these stats. BTW I do not have a college degree but I wish I did!

Top number is yearly income
bottom number is monthly income

No High School Diploma
$14,349
$1,196

High School Diploma
$23,233
$1,936

Associate Degree
$31,684
$2,640

Bachelor's Degree
$45,648
$3,804

Master's Degree
$56,958
$4,747

Doctorate Degree
$87,644
$7,304


Info found on:
http://www.bls.gov/oco/home.htm

WOW!!!! Thanks for your input! I see that my DH and I (neither of us have degrees) are doing better than those with Bachelor's degrees and Master's degrees! And that is not even our combined income!

I am not knocking education in the least, it is very important. But, for those of you who feel that those without it cannot accomplish or attain an good living, well that is simply not true.

My DB who has two Master's makes less than my other DB who only has a high school diploma. I don't look down on either of them for what they have or don't have and very proud of what they have accomplished.

 

[Saffron]

Bwhahahaha! I have two degrees, an AS in Nursing, an AA in Elementary Education plus I'm one course and student teaching away from holding a duel BA in Early Childhood/Elementary Education and according to those statistics I'm somewhere between the "no high school diploma" and "high school diploma" level.

But ... I am very successful! I love my job (preschool teacher) and wouldn't change it for the world, my job loves me, I love my family and friends, my family and friends love me, life is grand, end of story.

Aww, I feel bad for your daughter. Somewhere along the way she heard someone say that and that person probably got someone to laugh at the remark, so she probably thought she could get a laugh with it too. Then it backfired. That alone, without being attacked for the comment, is embarrassing enough. Almost every moment in a young person's life is a teaching moment. The adult that treated her that way is just wrong, wrong, wrong. It always amazes me when adults think they can treat children any way they want to just because they are bigger or older than them. I treat everyone, whether they're three, thirteen, twenty three, sixty three or eighty three the same way. I treat others the way I want to be treated. Some adults just have some sort of authority trip hang up.

On the other hand, I do think your daughter's remark was insensitive. I can't stand it when anyone's feelings are hurt because they feel they've been mad a joke of. And hey, I went to college, three times now , and I mess up too! Things happen.

I think I would talk to your daughter about that, and I would also let her know that that other woman was way out of line for the way she treated her and she shouldn't have treated her that way. I wouldn't make your daughter apologize to the other woman unless the other woman apologized to her first. Adults are supposed to be the ones who take the high road in those type of situations. Adults need to be check their own behavior too.

Two wrongs don't make a right. That woman should never have reacted that way to your daughter. Your daughter's joke is understandable for her age and knowledge of the world (though insensitive to me), the woman's behavior is not.

 

[RitaZ.]

I find that many kids in this age group have, as a friend puts it, diarrhea of the mouth. They are still learning, they need to be reminded to think before they speak.

College may not guarantee that you will be successful or make a decent salary, but it sure as heck improves your chances and opportunities.

I tell my kids that if they want to achieve or maintain a similar lifestyle to what we have given them, then college is the best way to get there.

 

[cstraub]

WOW!!!! Thanks for your input! I see that my DH and I (neither of us have degrees) are doing better than those with Bachelor's degrees and Master's degrees! And that is not even our combined income!

I am not knocking education in the least, it is very important. But, for those of you who feel that those without it cannot accomplish or attain an good living, well that is simply not true.

My DB who has two Master's makes less than my other DB who only has a high school diploma. I don't look down on either of them for what they have or don't have and very proud of what they have accomplished.

Your welcome! Wow! You're lucky to make such a great living!

 

[phorsenuf]

Sorry...have to chuckle too. I have heard that said before and yes, I have said it myself only its not college, its high school.
BTW, I've never said to directly to anyone, just a joke between my DH and I.

 

[crz4mm2]

Put me down as another parent who has used the flipping burgers vs college trump card. I have used this example more than once.
If it offends people that work fast food, I am sorry. But college DOES afford one much more options in life. Usually, a college grad makes more money than a person that didn't graduate college. Not always, but usually.
I worked for minimum wage for years in several different jobs. I know how hard it is to make a living on minimum wage (or darn near impossible). I went back to school as an adult with children. It was one of the hardest things I have ever done. So I KNOW it improves opportunities.

I bet the OPs DD didn't mean it to be offensive. I bet she thought it would be a funny comment (I thought it was funny myself and might have made the same comment!). It's too bad the friend was soooooo offended.

Sounds like the OP has it well under control.
Best of luck with your DD. I best she is a wonderful girl

Cathy

 

[MrsNick]

Just my 2 cents in regards to a couple of posts I've seen...

i.e. you don't know the person's circumstance, they might be working while going to school, etc.

It sounds to me like some posters were communicating that it's not okay to put down someone who works at McDonalds because they might be attending school. Does that imply that it's okay to put down someone who works at McDonalds if that's their lot in life and they happen not to be a student?

I just don't think it's right to put people down, period, for making a mistake (and the woman who chastised your dd shouldn't have done so for your dd making a mistake, since your dd's friend's mother already corrected her).

BTW, I am a college graduate, and work in a career with other college graduates, some of whom could stand to be knocked in the head to learn a little bit of common sense. A college degree is sort of like a calling card, and will get your foot in the door in terms of opening doors and opportunities. But once you have the opportunity, it's what you do with it that makes your career, not the lone fact that you have a college degree.

Before I get off my soapbox, I believe that many young people today don't have sympathy/empathy for people who are stuck in "dead end" jobs, perhaps because they take their own comfortable existence for granted. But it is our responsibility as adults to educate them to understand that all people deserve to be treated respectfully, or as we ourselves would want to be treated in a similar situation.

 

[Ronda93]

If you're old enough to poke fun at someone's lot in life, you're old enough to hear dissent.

 

[disneylizzy]

Honestly, I think it was a good lesson for your daughter to learn. The joke WAS funny, but inappropriate in company she didn't know well. She needs to learn that when in the company of people she's not close to, such jokes should be avoided. It's just the way the world is. I don't think you should punish her, but I do think a letter of apology would make HER feel better about it. She's a good kid and is learning what every child needs to learn. People have very different senses of humor. Some people will get hurt, and those people matter too. It's best to sooth it over and be a little more careful next time.

I can indeed see how the comment could be offensive to people who didn't go to college. Moreover, her comment isn't a correct assessment. Many people live great and productive lives without an education while others who are highly educated are total rejects. I think it is also important that she realize that those people work hard, and that she may herself end up working in such a place someday. It's good to teach her to be kind to people who screw up because she will make mistakes, too, regardless of what job she does. Really, all of this is just an afterthought because I don't think she meant it to be mean. She's 12, and like all 12 year olds, she wants the adults to think she is funny. She made the joke, probably because she heard somebody else make the very same joke. Unfortunately, she chose to make the joke around somebody who was a tad bit uptight. She'll grow from the experience.

ITA!

I think it comes down to kids learning what is ok to say and what could hurt someone's feelings. We all make mistakes, be kind to other people, think of other's feelings, don't look down on people - these are all things that we have to learn - she's learning, the lesson will probably be one that will stay with her. Kids say all kinds of things and don't think first - they're kids.


Also, fast food work does not have to be dead end. I work in the business office of a fast food franchisee (BK). The owner is always looking for crew members that work hard, see what needs to be done and do it, etc. Every General Manager he has is a former crew member. Most are minorities and women. I can tell you that they work very hard, but they are paid pretty well and get bonuses several times a year if their restaurants meet certain criteria for drive-thru speed, cleanliness, etc.

 

[crz4mm2]

I never meant that I thought it was "OK" to hurt someone's feelings. I do NOT think it is ever ok to hurt someone.
I also don't think that everyone that works fast food is stupid or lazy. And being a "general manager" is not flipping burgers.
I just happen to believe that people who go to college and graduate have more opportunity than those that do not.

Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Dakota_Lynn]

Have not read all the posts but just wanted to post an observation.

"This, my friends, is why you go to college." (what your daughter said)

"Stay in school kids or you'll end up with my job." (Jungle cruise boat driver)

Your daughter has a great sense of humor and it sounds like your friend needs to get a new friend.

I would never make a 12 year feel uncomfortable about a comment they made especially in public. We are the adults and we should be teaching kids how to act, not embarrassing them and making them feel bad! Sounds like the friend's friend has a major chip on her shoulder.

The difference is that the Jungle Cruise fellow is making fun of himself. The OP's daughter is making fun of other people.

I've thought a lot about this since I posted my original comments and I really have to stand by what I said even though I'm in the minority. Un PC jokes are fine in the privacy of close friends and family, but this girl was in the company of somebody she didn't know. She, according to the OP, has put her foot in her mouth more than once lately. She was obviously in need of hearing it like it is from somebody. And I agree with those who have suggested that the child may have exaggerated the response a bit. Most kids DO exaggerate. It sounds like somebody told the kid that she was out of line, and she was.

I have raised my daughter to not look down on other people. When her friends come to my home and make unpleasant comments about others, I correct them. There was an incident about a month ago where my daughter's 13 year old friend make a comment in a tone of disgust about not wanting to ride the bus with retarded kids. I snapped at her; I told her it was appaling that she would want to discriminate against retarded children given the fact that she herself, being Native American, knows what it is like to be treated differently! This was the fifth time in a month this same child made judgmental comments about other people while in my home. So yes, I came down on her. I'm sure I wounded her feelings, but not nearly as bad as she would have hurt the feelings of retarded children had she made that ugly comment around them or around people who loved them! I do not like to see adults or children with that "I'm better than you" bull. If I'm in a position to mold a young person who is in danger of growing up to be a snob, then I will definitely take the oppertunity and have my say.

Another way to look at it; I allow my daughter to cuss at home. She has been instructed to not cuss outside the home. She once did and got chewed out by the adult that she cussed in front of. She felt bad and has been more careful since. She didn't die and her self-esteem hasn't been injured. She is one step closer to realizing that there is a time and place for certain behaviors. In front of her friend's parents isn't the place for cussing. In front of strangers isn't the place for UN-PC jokes. No big deal. Just kids learning lessons. When I was 12, it was the norm for people to correct other people's children; frankly, I miss those days.

 

[Dakota_Lynn]

LOL, the snobbery thread.

Telling your kids that they'll end up flippng burgers if they don't go to college. Great parenting.

I hear ya!

I've got eight years of college behind me, but my 14 year old daughter is learning disabled and I seriously doubt she will attend college. Perhaps a trade school, perhaps not. I can't imagine implying to a child that they are somehow worth less of they don't go to college. It is sad that people really do that.

 

[DisneyPhD]

I have made that same joke with my nieces and nephews. (not to anyone's face.) It does give them a relaity check as far as educaiton goes. I was also just joking with my neighbors daughter who just graduated from HS and is off to college now. She was working at an ice cream places and we were talking about how hard the job was. I said, "that is why you are going to college, so you don't have to do that for the rest of your life." She laughed. It is true. Many of the jobs that you don't need higher education are darn hard, and pay very little. Fact of life.

That doesn't mean college degrees promise money, especailly depending on what you go for. I have a masters in social work and 2 undergrad degrees. I am a SAHM currently, but mostly because I was laid off from hosptial work (decent pay) and most other jobs offered me money that it really wasn't worth working for (after childcare expenses.) I loved my old job (as a clinical thearpsit) but I love being at home now. When I go back to work, money won't be the major motovationg factor (but it does mater.) DH has a PhD and I have friends whos husbands have bachelors degrees who make a lot more then DH does teaching college. Depends on what you are going into. However he makes more teaching then people with a masters degree.

I wouldn't be too hard on her. I think she figured it out. It wasn't the worst thing she could of said, and wasn't that far from the truth. She will learn from the experince and be a more senstive person because of it. After all she is a kid.

 

[Beth76]

I think encouraging my child to go to college does make me a great parent. I would not hesitate to tell my DD that she needs to go to college or she might end up in a dead-end job. If using the specter of working fast food as an adult makes me "snobby", then so be it.

Oh I totally agree with this. My husband and I (and my parents too) value higher education right up near health. We will do everything in our power to see that our kids go to and graduate college. And we will pay for it entirely. If I have to use the "flipping burger" comparison, then I will. If it makes me snobby, great! I went to college. I earned the right to be snobby about it.

 

[Dare2Wish]

Your daughter is young. 12 year olds are not "hip" to the PC world we all live in. She was not trying to be offensive. The other mom's friend did not need to belittle your daughter.