TSM standby-less test Oct. 6-9

[Angel Ariel]

Thank you for recognizing this. When your family includes students and then schoolteachers, there is really no choice but to visit at those busy times. Taking advantage of as many AM EMH as possible, and then booking 3 major attractions at a different park later in the day makes it a lot easier to deal with the crowds.

I've always recognized that it works well for some people/touring styles...especially when taking crowds into consideration.

I just hope that it is equally understandable why some of those who don't visit during those times and never had to plan that much find the level of planning FP+ now requires to be much more than what we enjoy.

 

[over50visits]

More thinking out loud....
What happens if 1000 riders all show up for Soarin' at the same time? I think this is a problem they have with the current implementation. If you allow 1500 riders to book a slot between 11-12. What do you do if they all show up at 11? Or even if they all show up between 11-11:30? A line will build. If they can load 1500 riders/hr for that ride, it will take an hour to clear the queue. They still served their 1500 riders but someone waited 30-60 mins for their "Fast" pass.

I can't imagine they will go to a reservation only system but its probably just some sad state of denial. On the other hand I can't see how they can continue to allow an open ended SB queue, merge it with the FP queue and have it result in shorter wait times for everyone. Something has to give.

First, they shouldn't call if a "fast" pass. How about Priority Seating

It is unlikely crowds will unexpectedly spike. Large groups act predictably, and the tracking system they are trying to get everyone to wear will provide wonderful guest behavior data that will allow them to properly dole out these passes.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Yeah, that's it, blame us TofT 10 miler folk. (Honestly, kidding - there were 10,000+ runners).

DH ran the TOT 10 miler last year, so we were part of that crowd

 

[johde]

That's what I'm curious to see - if maybe the tests at Soarin' and then TSMM where in preparation for the upcoming holiday crowds.

Sort of like a Level 1 (Standby is given a paper pass to come back later) and Level 2 (no standby at all) ride closure that only be used on certain days or when the SB line wait time exceeded a certain value.

It's an interesting thought. If you look at worst park/worst day for trying to ride rides in my opinion it would be EPCOT/NYE. Looking Touringplan.com for last year Soarin had a standby wait that fluxuated between 180-255 minutes from 10:00 a.m. - 10:30 p.m. Test Track fluctuated between 140-240 minutes. Mission space Fluctuated between 80-140 minutes with a spike of 210 right around noon. And this is with paper FP. At some point, the question needs to be asked if the combined SB wait times of 3 attraction is over 10 hours is it worth having a SB line. Ramp up the FP% so the guests that do get to enjoy the attraction can do it with minimal wait.

On the other hand, if all those people aren't in the standby lines they will need to be somewhere. Of course on NYE EPCOT pulls out the stops on the extra entertainment to cope with the crowds. But as it is, WS is packed with CM directing traffic around the circle so you can more.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Our family always travels in June. The past 2 years it has been the 2nd week of June. Maybe not high peak time but no where close to lower crowds. I think our days for the past 2 years have been 8 and 9s. We much prefer the old paper FPs.

I went and looked up my post from June 2013. There was talk on the DIS boards at that time of FP+ coming so I kept close tabs on our FPs our MK day. This is my exact post copied from the thread.

This was for the date of June 12, 2013.

And this was from our morning at MK on June 15, 2013.

And just so I'm not accused of making it up. Here is a link to the thread I started on 6-13-13. http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=3126295

I'm sorry..I should have clarified that I understand why *some* who travel at higher crowd level times would prefer FP+. I completely know that not everyone who travels at more crowded times does and I should have made that clear

 

[mom2mickeyfan]

I'm sorry..I should have clarified that I understand why *some* who travel at higher crowd level times would prefer FP+. I completely know that not everyone who travels at more crowded times does and I should have made that clear

Oh, I understand! It is all good. I just wanted to put out there that for some, even during peak times, we were able to get much more done with paper FPs than with FP+.

On our full MK day in 2013, we rode over 20 rides. We were no where close to that number this past June.

 

[cakebaker]

Thank you for recognizing this. When your family includes students and then schoolteachers, there is really no choice but to visit at those busy times. Taking advantage of as many AM EMH as possible, and then booking 3 major attractions at a different park later in the day makes it a lot easier to deal with the crowds.

In our group that goes, 3 of the 4 are teachers. We have no choice but to go in the summer. We did get to do an early fall this year, first time ever and probably the last when 2 of the 4 were able to beg time out of class for a few days.

It was busier in early August than late September, but September was crowded enough that FP+ still worked really well.

 

[mom2mickeyfan]

In our group that goes, 3 of the 4 are teachers. We have no choice but to go in the summer. We did get to do an early fall this year, first time ever and probably the last when 2 of the 4 were able to beg time out of class for a few days.

It was busier in early August than late September, but September was crowded enough that FP+ still worked really well.

We also have no choice but to go in the summer. My DH is a high school teacher and football coach.

 

[magicbob]

Did I hear singing?

This thread truly has it all.

Singing, turtles, AND piling on. Now all it needs are singing turtles piling on.

I suppose a lot of it depends on the crowd levels, so that might explain our different experiences. Our trips are rarely during lower levels.

I'm going to bet that if fp+ were in effect, if we went in the afternoon there would be no fp available for SDMT or A&E- should we ever be chained and forced to need A&E that is.

Could we get some fp's at MK? Sure, but not the headliners at the time. It's the same complaint you hear about fp+- only I can actually get them now if I book in advance. With legacy, I was in the park, couldn't get it, couldn't wait for it to pop up- if it was gone, it was gone.

At AK, Everest was consistently sold out by afternoon. Epcot- anything and everything with a FP was gone- Same with HS.

I can absolutely understand how park hopping during busy times would result in arriving to EPCOT and having no FPs left (or no TSMM FPs at DHS). I have long agreed that the ability to arrive late in the day and have a FP for Soarin' or TSMM is one of the best features of FP+.

Although not at WDW, we recently experienced a similar phenomenon at DLRP (which still uses legacy FP, with no late returns allowed). We went to the studio park at RD to ride Ratatouille (first SB then with FP), then rode other favorites at that park before hopping to MK. Note that FPs for Ratatouille are all distributed in the first 30 minutes (much like TSMM on busy days) because it's brand new and HOT!

It was around 2pm when we hopped and we went straight to BTMRR on the off-chance that there would be some late evening FPs left. They were all gone (which wasn't a surprise... BTMRR is possibly the most popular ride in Paris). So my son and I waited the 45 or so minutes in SB. If there was no SB option, we would have been shut out from riding that. So I think a true standby-less model would be worse for park hopping except for the few rides you are able to reserve in advance. BTW, we were able to get FPs for Space Mountain, Star Tours, and Buzz even with the late arrival. It was only a moderate crowd at MK that day however.

I think the strategy you outlined of flip flopping which park is a morning and which is an afternoon park is a good way to hit all the headliners with FP+. I'm certain there are a lot of people who are put out by having to make multiple visits to that park in order to ride everything. But if you look at it like just splitting your day at that park into two half days (one morning with RD/SB and one afternoon with FP+), you're basically investing the same amount of time (seeing two parks in two days, but split into AM1/PM2 and AM2/PM1).

But if they went to a standby-less system, that would eliminate the benefit of your AM RD, would it not? If your FPs are reserved at the other park for PM and there is no SB option, then what are you going to do at your AM park?

 

[minnie-apple-mouse]

Those look like back to back FP+ not overlapping. Which is what we did, leaving us with 20 minutes of dead time between FP+.

I like the 3/3hr or 5/5hr idea.

What I had in mind was something like the following:
9:00-10:30 Space
10:00-11:30 BTMRR
11:00-12:30 Buzz

With the 4th being able to add at the end of the 3 hr, in this case Noon.

Making the return window longer would add flexibility and prevent that race across a park.

We had to pick in advance which days we might want to do a water park and then pick FP+ for the evening.

True-I just meant you could do all 3 in an hour-so back to back is not really 3 hours unless you want it to be. Seems like enough room to do what you want-but and hour and a half for each that do overlap is fine with me to.

They may need a tighter window though-I'm not sure. Certainly the bigger the return window-the more room for congestion I would think.

 

[cakebaker]

I think the strategy you outlined of flip flopping which park is a morning and which is an afternoon park is a good way to hit all the headliners with FP+. I'm certain there are a lot of people who are put out by having to make multiple visits to that park in order to ride everything. But if you look at it like just splitting your day at that park into two half days (one morning with RD/SB and one afternoon with FP+), you're basically investing the same amount of time (seeing two parks in two days, but split into AM1/PM2 and AM2/PM1).

But if they went to a standby-less system, that would eliminate the benefit of your AM RD, would it not? If your FPs are reserved at the other park for PM and there is no SB option, then what are you going to do at your AM park?

Well first, we never look at as having to visit in order to ride everything. That's a totally foreign notion to me. We love being in the parks and we love visiting each park multiple times during a trip, but yes, you're not investing any more time than if you did a rope drop to close for 1 park. Again, we don't just do rides- and I do think Disney is trying to curtail back to back riding of rides, so I understand the frustration if that's the kind of touring one likes to do.

If they went to a totally reserved only system, we'd have to re-think how we tour. I don't think they ever will, but if they do, we'll work around it and change to be able to enjoy our vacation just as we always have. I'm assuming there will always be a standby of some sort- so it may not change at all. If there is no standby, I'm assuming the fp+ availability would increase. But we could adjust to doing non-ride activities in 1 park, rides in the other, then switch. It's impossible to say without knowing exactly what the system would be.

We'd still take a midday break, we'd most likely still park hop because we like breaking up our time in the parks. We don't have a laundry list that we check off the rides, then move on. We enjoy the slower pace that Disney allows you to have. No other park I know of gives you such a varied experience. Great rides, great entertainment and very nice resorts. So, we'll adjust if we need to.

 

[Laketravis]

Count me among the crowd that doesn't believe WDW will go to an all-reserved ride system. There are simply too many people who show up in the parks each day that don't have a clue what FP is or how it works, let alone plan for it several days in advance.

I'll be curious to see if any aspect of that concept is introduced next month over Thanksgiving week; if it is then we'll just have to adapt and armed with the knowledge that one acquires from these forums, we'll figure out a way to make it work for us.

 

[crazycatlady]

Really I always have had park hoppers and left parks and got fast passes at the other parks under the legacy system. I used to go to the studios from open til noon then to epcot and never once got shut out! Always did the headliners and it worked super for us!

This is what my family always did, too. We may not have been able to get FPs for TSMM when we hopped to DHS in the afternoon, but we could almost always score them for everything else, even RNR. The times may have been a few hours away, but we did other things until our time came around.

 

[cakebaker]

This is what my family always did, too. We may not have been able to get FPs for TSMM when we hopped to DHS in the afternoon, but we could almost always score them for everything else, even RNR. The times may have been a few hours away, but we did other things until our time came around.

To be clear, we don't leave 1 park and hop directly to another. We usually don't get to the 2nd park of the day until very late in the afternoon/early evening- usually somewhere between 5 and 6.

TOT was always, always out. RNR was always out as was TSMM. In Epcot, no Soarin', no TT and at AK it was Everest. It was a rare event for any of these to have FP available in the evening. Plus the problem of the morning parks and having to get to the popular fp's before the times were so late that we'd want to leave before our time was up added to the frustration.

We don't like running from ride to ride and that's what we were having to do. With fp+, the ride fits out schedule instead of the other way around.

 

[Sydnerella]

The potential implications of the no stand by testing should be the focus of people's energy - not rehashing old arguments of why one system is better than another for their family. The next moves scare (relative of course) me - at some point will they New Coke something or just plow forward....can only hope testing screens out the really bad stuff.

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[smidgy]

Well of course he didn't, how foolish of me......


Epcot days are nothing but a series of TT, Mission Space, Figment. TT, Mission Space, Figment.

HS days are nothing but a series of TSM, RnRC, Star Tours. TSM, RnRC, Star Tours.

MK days are nothing but a series of SM, BTMR, SDMT. SM, BTMR, SDMT.

AK is, well.... not even worth the effort. We'll just get there early, ride EE and leave

Just wanted to point that out- sorry to interrupt your back to back posting-

I believe he meant that, because of FP+.. NOW "epcot days are nothing but... etc etc etc. "

 

[vacationer1954]

The potential implications of the no stand by testing should be the focus of people's energy

Improving smartphone apps for starters, I hope.

 

[magicbob]

Count me among the crowd that doesn't believe WDW will go to an all-reserved ride system. There are simply too many people who show up in the parks each day that don't have a clue what FP is or how it works, let alone plan for it several days in advance.

I'll be curious to see if any aspect of that concept is introduced next month over Thanksgiving week; if it is then we'll just have to adapt and armed with the knowledge that one acquires from these forums, we'll figure out a way to make it work for us.

I also don't think they will go exclusively standby-less. Think of the negative PR. The marketing campaign for FP+ touts the ability to pre-reserve rides, but how do you spin things for the thousands of guests who show up and are told "sorry, you didn't make reservations in advance, you cannot ride anything." ?????

 

[cakebaker]

I believe he meant that, because of FP+.. NOW "epcot days are nothing but... etc etc etc. "

ok

 

[norybell]

I also don't think they will go exclusively standby-less. Think of the negative PR. The marketing campaign for FP+ touts the ability to pre-reserve rides, but how do you spin things for the thousands of guests who show up and are told "sorry, you didn't make reservations in advance, you cannot ride anything." ?????

I think you're probably right. The only way they could maybe pull it off would be if immediate or near-immediate FPs remained available for the non-headliners, and same-day FPs remained for the not-super-hot headliners...so you could walk into the park and immediately get a FP to ride Jungle Cruise in 5 minutes and Space in 3 hours, or something...then they could trumpet, "No more lines!"

They'd have to find a way to fix the complexity and congestion problems, though, and I'm not convinced they're fixable.

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