TSM standby-less test Oct. 6-9

[Silock]

I suppose they've always imposed limits in certain ways. But there's a point where it becomes so restrictive, it no longer feels like a vacation. And I think they might be nearing that point.

Sent from my iPhone using DISBoards

They've already passed that point for us. It's just so stressful to have to plan out everything so far in advance, and now, they might spring stuff on us that completely screws up our plans at the last minute, with no hope of really rectifying it.

It doesn't feel like a vacation when you have to plan out every single step you're going to take in a day 60 days out, which may not even jive with ADRs you made even further out.

At least with the old system, if you showed up late and all the FPs were gone, you could just come back earlier the next day and get one. Good luck with that now.

 

[magicbob]

If my little Billly or Sally stand in WDW and ball their little eyes out after all the sacrifices and work it took to get them there because they can't ride one ride in all of WDW, my little Sally or Billy are going to get a nice ride back to the room where they'll discover just how much worse things can be than not getting to ride something.

Seriously, it's one ride. I didn't tolerate my children having fits when they didn't get what they want. I love my grandson more than life itself, and I don't tolerate it from him either- and he's 2.

I think there are two different sets of parameters being discussed... the testing at TSMM only affected one ride, true. But it's also been proposed in this thread that WDW should do away with stand-by lines and use a reservation-only system for ALL rides. It was that scenario I was referring to. A child (who certainly cannot understand why) being told they will not be able to ride ANY rides because their family did not make reservations ahead of time.

A crying child does not automatically equate to a spoiled child "throwing a fit." If an unsuspecting family arrived to WDW and was told they could not ride the rides because they had not made advance reservations, I think it would be a natural response for the child to cry. Doing this to families would just be cruel. I'd be surprised if every child subjected to it didn't cry.

Again, my comments refer to being shut out of ALL rides, not just TSMM.

 

[MaryKatesMom]

A crying child does not automatically equate to a spoiled child "throwing a fit." If an unsuspecting family arrived to WDW and was told they could not ride the rides because they had not made advance reservations, I think it would be a natural response for the child to cry. Doing this to families would just be cruel. I'd be surprised if every child subjected to it didn't cry.

Again, my comments refer to being shut out of ALL rides, not just TSMM.

Actually, bursting into tears because you can't ride any rides was me on my first trip with my DD's. I thought I planned but boy was I wrong. All the travel agent had reccomended was Birnbaum's in the Disney store. Two mistakes right there, an uneducated TA and large glossy "brochure".

I was completely taken aback by the crowd level the Wednesday after Easter. We get to the park around 3PM we had a 5:30 reservation at the Castle for dinner pre-Princess (King Stephen's Table?). The line for Dumbo was wrapped past the carousel almost to Snow White's Adventure. There was NOTHING in the park that day at that time for less than 2 hr wait.

I wandered around in a daze and although I didn't burst into tears I remember wiping them away under some sparking lit trees.

I was so dissapointed but I did not blame Disney for that at all but myself. Time for a little more Disney education. Joined the Dis and I still read "The Unofficial Guide" every couple of years. Changed the time of year I went (First Full Week in December!!! Did it for years, crowd level 1-2 some of the best vacations in my life.). Plus, we do RD, ride what we want and then leave the park while everyone is entering. The DD's to this day call it zigging when everyone is zagging.

FP+ has brought that feeling right back. We are back to going to during peak again but instead of being able to manage the crowd using lower excpectations, FP and RD, we are back to wandering around not being able to ride anything but our 3 FP+ and then out the park. THIS time I know who fault this in and it isn't mine.

 

[Sandy817]

I think there are two different sets of parameters being discussed... the testing at TSMM only affected one ride, true. But it's also been proposed in this thread that WDW should do away with stand-by lines and use a reservation-only system for ALL rides. It was that scenario I was referring to. A child (who certainly cannot understand why) being told they will not be able to ride ANY rides because their family did not make reservations ahead of time.

A crying child does not automatically equate to a spoiled child "throwing a fit." If an unsuspecting family arrived to WDW and was told they could not ride the rides because they had not made advance reservations, I think it would be a natural response for the child to cry. Doing this to families would just be cruel. I'd be surprised if every child subjected to it didn't cry.

Again, my comments refer to being shut out of ALL rides, not just TSMM.

Just got back from WDW last night. I haven't gone through all of these posts, however I agree. I don't think Disney could go with "reservation only" rides. I think it would turn people off to coming. I have read threads where the moment midnight hits on their 60 day window, not being able to get FP for some rides. I was on the Disney bus the other day heading for Epcot when I overheard a family say they had a fast pass for a specific ride (don't remember which one but it was one of the popular ones) for 3 days in a row. If you have a lot of people do this, it would block others from experiencing the attraction.

I think Disney is trying to find ways for everyone to have an opportunity to enjoy their attractions. There will always be someone trying to "game the system".

 

[cakebaker]

I think there are two different sets of parameters being discussed... the testing at TSMM only affected one ride, true. But it's also been proposed in this thread that WDW should do away with stand-by lines and use a reservation-only system for ALL rides. It was that scenario I was referring to. A child (who certainly cannot understand why) being told they will not be able to ride ANY rides because their family did not make reservations ahead of time.

A crying child does not automatically equate to a spoiled child "throwing a fit." If an unsuspecting family arrived to WDW and was told they could not ride the rides because they had not made advance reservations, I think it would be a natural response for the child to cry. Doing this to families would just be cruel. I'd be surprised if every child subjected to it didn't cry.

Again, my comments refer to being shut out of ALL rides, not just TSMM.

I agree. I see lots of crying children over the course of a vacation- I don't assume they're crying because their spoiled. And yes, I imagine everyone would be crying if they were told they couldn't ride any rides- that's a lot different than not being able to ride 1 single ride and that's what my comments were directed at.

 

[Laketravis]

Ever seen a caveman cry?

It's not a pretty sight.

 

[cakebaker]

If you have a lot of people do this, it would block others from experiencing the attraction.

I think Disney is trying to find ways for everyone to have an opportunity to enjoy their attractions. There will always be someone trying to "game the system".

I think you're exactly right. With legacy, the hoarding of fp's was great for those who managed to do it. Not so great for people who couldn't get one due to whatever reason it was that got them to the park late.

I don't under estimate the effects that the current practice of collecting extra bands to get extra fp+'s has on they system. For every guest who uses 3-4 extra bands, there are 3-4 guests who don't get to ride at all. Hopefully, Disney will crack down on the practice. It seems a simple fix to me and I assume I'm either wrong and it's not significant or they have bigger fish to fry and will get to it in time.

So even if you personally like to ride back to back, obviously Disney does not want this to happen. I don't think they were ever set up to do what I call amusement park riding and I don't think they want to be- and that's perfectly fine with me.

 

[vacationer1954]

And there are people for whom Disney can do no wrong.

What information do you posess that leave you in "little doubt" that the number of people turned off will be outweighed by the number of people that it will draw in?

No one in this thread has said that Disney can do no wrong. A few of us have said that this is good for us. Repeatedly trying to make it sound like we're not as discriminating as you are is insulting and rude.

We have been saying over and over again that we respect the fact that some guests won't like these changes and over and over again in replies people keep claiming that we don't recognize their complaints. That's also very rude.

We've been visiting Disney for many years. I've seen changes come and seen people's reactions to them. There is nothing about standby-less that makes it different from MDE just like there was nothing about MDE that made it different from FastPass and there was nothing about FastPass that made it different from a long line of changes over the years. Some people will like the changes some people won't and Disney will still be more and more popular every year.

So tell us...what has Disney done wrong?

Job #1 for Disney now is to make MDE work better, faster and more reliably both at kiosks and the parks and on our smartphones. Another thing I want to see Disney do is add information displays at every bus stop showing when the next bus will arrive for each route served and have it automatically change when they add a bus. I would also like to see several other changes that probably would upset many other guests so I'll not post them here until the rudeness stops.

I think you're exactly right. With legacy, the hoarding of fp's was great for those who managed to do it. Not so great for people who couldn't get one due to whatever reason it was that got them to the park late.

I don't under estimate the effects that the current practice of collecting extra bands to get extra fp+'s has on they system. For every guest who uses 3-4 extra bands, there are 3-4 guests who don't get to ride at all. Hopefully, Disney will crack down on the practice. It seems a simple fix to me and I assume I'm either wrong and it's not significant or they have bigger fish to fry and will get to it in time.

So even if you personally like to ride back to back, obviously Disney does not want this to happen. I don't think they were ever set up to do what I call amusement park riding and I don't think they want to be- and that's perfectly fine with me.

Us as well. It's a different formula for the guest experience and a better one for us and so it is natural to hope Disney makes these changes.

 

[flicx]

If my little Billly or Sally stand in WDW and ball their little eyes out after all the sacrifices and work it took to get them there because they can't ride one ride in all of WDW, my little Sally or Billy are going to get a nice ride back to the room where they'll discover just how much worse things can be than not getting to ride something.

Seriously, it's one ride. I didn't tolerate my children having fits when they didn't get what they want. I love my grandson more than life itself, and I don't tolerate it from him either- and he's 2.

Is it just one ride? Disney has tested this on multiple things already. The lack of certain rides will affect how many rides a small child can go on. When they ran this crappy test Disney took away one of the few rides that already exist for smaller children at the studios. I am quite sure there were a few upset small children that day.

 

[flicx]

I really want to know how people hoarded legacy fastpasses? There was a time parameter on them till you could get another one. That's always the way it was when we went.

 

[Suvadoo]

I really want to know how people hoarded legacy fastpasses? There was a time parameter on them till you could get another one. That's always the way it was when we went.

That was my question also. When I obtained a legacy FP, I could not obtain another one for 2 hours. Unless the return time on the current FP was less than 2 hours. There was no way I could "hoard FP's"

 

[cakebaker]

Is it just one ride? Disney has tested this on multiple things already. The lack of certain rides will affect how many rides a small child can go on. When they ran this crappy test Disney took away one of the few rides that already exist for smaller children at the studios. I am quite sure there were a few upset small children that day.

It was just one in this case, there were no other tests that day. The younger the child, the easier it is to distract them. If they're past the easily distracted age- 7? 8?, in my book of parenting that's old enough to not stand and cry your eyes out. I'm sure they were disappointed, but I was addressing the notion of crying their eyes out- which is a totally different thing from being disappointed and moving on-

 

[wilkeliza]

That was my question also. When I obtained a legacy FP, I could not obtain another one for 2 hours. Unless the return time on the current FP was less than 2 hours. There was no way I could "hoard FP's"

You could only really hoard then when FP windows were not being enforced. Also for a while any card would work so some would bring old KTTW cards and get multiple FP with out having to wait.

 

[cakebaker]

That was my question also. When I obtained a legacy FP, I could not obtain another one for 2 hours. Unless the return time on the current FP was less than 2 hours. There was no way I could "hoard FP's"

Hoarding was probably not the best word to use- using a method of collecting them as fast as possible is better. We didn't do it much, so I'm no expert. Most of my information on collecting multiple fp's comes from posts from those who complain they can't do it anymore. There was nothing wrong with doing it as far as I'm concerned, but it was possible to get them in such a way that you could ride multiple times.

My understanding is it goes something like this:

Go in at rope drop- get a fp- return time would be well less than 2 hours away- most likely under 30 minutes. Ride standby.Get another fp in 30 minutes- wait time would probably still be under 2 hrs, let's say an hour.
Wait the hour, grab another. That, just by itself, is 4 rides with 3 fp's - all collected within 1.5 hrs of park opening.

This is not possible with fp+. You could continue to do this throughout the day- at some point of course, the return times would keep getting longer and they'd sell out of the most popular at least by late afternoon- some earlier. But it was not hard, especially in low crowds to collect multiple fastpasses for the same ride.

When you factor in that period of time they let you ride with expired times, it was even easier.

 

[Suvadoo]

You could only really hoard then when FP windows were not being enforced. Also for a while any card would work so some would bring old KTTW cards and get multiple FP with out having to wait.

But over the past several years, in anticipation of FP+, legacy return times were strictly enforced. Also, I'm reading some posts where guests are using multiple magic bands from previous trips and getting lots of FP+'s. For every system, I guess there's always going to be people who game the system.

 

[wilkeliza]

But over the past several years, in anticipation of FP+, legacy return times were strictly enforced. Also, I'm reading some posts where guests are using multiple magic bands from previous trips and getting lots of FP+'s. For every system, I guess there's always going to be people who game the system.

True but I imagine the loop hole in the new system will end as soon as CMs get their personal magic bands. Then there will be no need to continue to allow unlinked MBs to book FP.

 

[cakebaker]

But over the past several years, in anticipation of FP+, legacy return times were strictly enforced. Also, I'm reading some posts where guests are using multiple magic bands from previous trips and getting lots of FP+'s. For every system, I guess there's always going to be people who game the system.

Not only that, they're booking throwaway rooms ( some cancel, some pay for it) to get free bands. Some of them book the campsites and put in fictitious names to hit the 10 person limit when there might be only a couple of people going to get the extra bands.

There seems to be multiple ways to game the system, as I said, hopefully Disney will stop this without costing those who don't do this crap.

Again, I don't think using fp as effectively as you could to gain as many rides as you could to be gaming the system. It was legitimate and within any rules Disney had. But I do think it was costing ride availability to others- one reason I like fp+. And one reason others hate it so much.

 

[robinb]

I really want to know how people hoarded legacy fastpasses? There was a time parameter on them till you could get another one. That's always the way it was when we went.

That was my question also. When I obtained a legacy FP, I could not obtain another one for 2 hours. Unless the return time on the current FP was less than 2 hours. There was no way I could "hoard FP's"

The return times were not enforced prior to 2012 so you could use your FP any time during the day. The rules for collection were still the same. You could get a new FP either when your FP window started or 2 hours after you pulled the FP whichever was sooner. However, you could pull a FP first thing in the morning and use it later in the day, even in the evening when you returned to the park after a break.

In any case, I don't see how FP Hoarding had any effect on the number of FPs available for a family who arrived later. You are either in the park to pull a FP or you are not. In addition, I go at very busy times and I did not see any difference in return times once the FP window was enforced.

 

[cakebaker]

In any case, I don't see how FP Hoarding had any effect on the number of FPs available for a family who arrived later. You are either in the park to pull a FP or you are not.

In that there were a limited number available, for every guest who got multiple fp's, it cut the availability for others.

Some think it's dog eat dog, every man for himself and I don't honestly have an objection to that. You get there first, you follow the rules and you get what you get.

But I think Disney has more incentive to make the availability of rides spread over as many guests as possible than guests do- and I don't have a problem with that either.

 

[robinb]

In that there were a limited number available, for every guest who got multiple fp's, it cut the availability for others.

Remember, FP return times marched forward whether people pull FPs or not. It's not like FPs that were not pulled were added on for later use.