TSM standby-less test Oct. 6-9

Status
Not open for further replies.
If I say it often enough, maybe it will come true...

The best fix, the one that is the least complicated, will benefit ALL guests the most and is likely to make a vast majority happy is to ADD MORE RIDES/ATTRACTIONS. Give the crowds somewhere to go.
 
If I say it often enough, maybe it will come true...

The best fix, the one that is the least complicated, will benefit ALL guests the most and is likely to make a vast majority happy is to ADD MORE RIDES/ATTRACTIONS. Give the crowds somewhere to go.

:thumbsup2 There, I said it again for you. ;)

Disney got so wedded to what was originally a pretty good idea (a paperless FP system in this case), then made it so unwieldy to manage from an IT perspective with the unrealistic booking windows (I can't fathom what I'll be doing 60 days from now at 3:50 PM even though I'll most likely be at work, so I can't see figuring it out for vacations would be any easier), unfriendly for guests to operate, and unnecessarily expensive for what could have been simply the elimination of paper, that it's easier for them to tweak the system to make it less of a PITA than it would be to come up with something simpler, but better.

But if they'd simply build more stuff for guests to do and see, the problems with FP+ would have at least been masked, and much of our complaining on here would be moot. They could have even held a standby-less test of a popular ride without notice to its guests, and they quite likely would have been able to get FP's for it.
 
If I say it often enough, maybe it will come true... The best fix, the one that is the least complicated, will benefit ALL guests the most and is likely to make a vast majority happy is to ADD MORE RIDES/ATTRACTIONS. Give the crowds somewhere to go.

So, so true. And I think that most of the things they could do to make FP+ a more universally positive experience (adding availability, removing tiers, lengthening return windows, etc.) are logistically impossible until they increase ride capacity. They really dug themselves a hole, rolling this out before 3 out of 4 of their parks have the attraction density to sustain it.

Sent from my iPhone using DISBoards
 
Food for thought. I only fear that it remains complicated, and that is a problem they have and they are making worse.

One of the complaints we have about the new FP+ is that the rides are separated into individual hour windows.

How about some number of FPs, say 5, all good for any time during a 5 hour period.

No specific rides, you pick what you want. You can only ride a particular ride once during the 5 hour period. That's all the FPs you get for the day, and the 5 hour windows are rolling (your choice).

Simple. You can ride quickly or spread them out. You don't have to plan way in advance, you have some spontaneity left.

For a fee you can buy more FPs. No standby lines.

Hmmm...just thinking out loud here also. Two of the worst parts of the current state of the system are that it is complicated and requires advance commitment. This address both of those.

More thinking out loud....
What happens if 1000 riders all show up for Soarin' at the same time? I think this is a problem they have with the current implementation. If you allow 1500 riders to book a slot between 11-12. What do you do if they all show up at 11? Or even if they all show up between 11-11:30? A line will build. If they can load 1500 riders/hr for that ride, it will take an hour to clear the queue. They still served their 1500 riders but someone waited 30-60 mins for their "Fast" pass.

I can't imagine they will go to a reservation only system but its probably just some sad state of denial. On the other hand I can't see how they can continue to allow an open ended SB queue, merge it with the FP queue and have it result in shorter wait times for everyone. Something has to give.
 

No standby free solution will accomplish anything unless you figure out what to do with all the people in the park not filling seats on rides or in shows at any given moment.

If you fill the park with Disney's idea of maximum capacity (and they stated that they have increased that by thousands thanks to MDE) and then fill every attraction to capacity, you will still have a lot more people left milling about than you have any kind of activities like shopping and dining to occupy them. They may no longer be in the queue to ride Peter Pan but now they are just standing outside somewhere waiting for their time to come.
 
.....figure out what to do with all the people in the park not filling seats on rides or in shows at any given moment....

I've been told that besides rides there's all sorts of wonderful and exciting forms of entertainment available in the parks at any given moment.
 
This is pretty :offtopic:, but bear with me:

As a Kentucky basketball fan, the whole FP+ experience reminds me (a little) of a debate about what to do with UK's b-ball arena, Rupp Arena. It is aging, but still a great place to watch basketball. There was a proposal recently that the mayor of Lexington was behind, as well as a lot of Lexington builders, etc. Much to everyone's surprise :rolleyes:, it was an outrageously expensive proposal, and seemed likely to be filled with kickbacks, etc. that public works often involve.

However, though I don't like the greedy aspects of it, what really made me oppose it from almost the beginning was the pie-in-the-sky overpromising and certain under-delivering that would have certainly occurred, much like FP+ for Disney. The architects were claiming that they were going to: a) keep Rupp Arena within the same footprint that it already occupies, b) not have any seats be any further away from the b-ball floor than they already are, c) convert all bleacher seats in the steep upper deck to individual seats with backs and cupholders, d) put in corporate suites somewhere, and e) not lose a single seat of its approximately 24,000 seat capacity. Doing all of these things is literally impossible without moving walls back, changing the footprint, sacrificing some seating capacity, etc. Something must give.

It was so expensive, and so unrealistic sounding (though the artist renderings were extremely cool), that even UK itself wanted no part of it, and the taxpayers in the rest of the state (who all love their UK basketball) let it be known they wanted no part of it, since it would have certainly required a state bailout eventually.

I wish whoever the decision makers at Disney who approved the FP+ implementation had had a similar skepticism as the skeptics of the Rupp Arena revamp. As has been said, something has to give, but it seems like whoever approved the FP+ implementation forgot this simple fact.
 
/
I suppose a lot of it depends on the crowd levels, so that might explain our different experiences. Our trips are rarely during lower levels. .

I completely agree that lower crowd levels are a part of it. I'd say crowds probably averaged a 6 on our trips in 2013 - with a high of probably 8 and a low of maybe 4. March's trip was at the start of spring break season..so not crazy busy, but not dead either. October's trip was for the Tower of Terror 10 milers, which bumped up crowds over the last 3 days of the trip, but the beginning of the trip was lower.

I think one's satisfaction with legacy is pretty directly tied to when you visited. On our trips, headliners at MK were available in the evenings. Now, if it were now would I expect Anna and Elsa and SDMT to be available in the evenings? No..I put those on the level of TSMM, which I never expected in the evening either - that's why we made DHS the morning park and AK the afternoon one. Space/Thunder/Splash, however, were all readily available when we hopped to MK on those visits.

I can absolutely understand why those who go at higher crowd level times prefer FP+. The planning, in that case, is quite helpful and helps avoid long waits.

I can also understand why some of those who don't like FP+ and who travel at lower crowd level times find that FP+ causes them to put more effort into planning than they previously had to do.
 
No standby free solution will accomplish anything unless you figure out what to do with all the people in the park not filling seats on rides or in shows at any given moment. If you fill the park with Disney's idea of maximum capacity (and they stated that they have increased that by thousands thanks to MDE) and then fill every attraction to capacity, you will still have a lot more people left milling about than you have any kind of activities like shopping and dining to occupy them. They may no longer be in the queue to ride Peter Pan but now they are just standing outside somewhere waiting for their time to come.
Another reason why an FP-only system would pretty much require the ability to hold more than one FP at a time. I mean, the MK walkways were bad enough on slow afternoons three years ago, when the majority of guests were stuck queuing in standby!

I've been told that besides rides there's all sorts of wonderful and exciting forms of entertainment available in the parks at any given moment.
No way, really?! Who knew? ;)

I completely agree that lower crowd levels are a part of it. I'd say crowds probably averaged a 6 on our trips in 2013 - with a high of probably 8 and a low of maybe 4. March's trip was at the start of spring break season..so not crazy busy, but not dead either. October's trip was for the Tower of Terror 10 milers, which bumped up crowds over the last 3 days of the trip, but the beginning of the trip was lower. I think one's satisfaction with legacy is pretty directly tied to when you visited. On our trips, headliners at MK were available in the evenings. Now, if it were now would I expect Anna and Elsa and SDMT to be available in the evenings? No..I put those on the level of TSMM, which I never expected in the evening either - that's why we made DHS the morning park and AK the afternoon one. Space/Thunder/Splash, however, were all readily available when we hopped to MK on those visits. I can absolutely understand why those who go at higher crowd level times prefer FP+. The planning, in that case, is quite helpful and helps avoid long waits. I can also understand why some of those who don't like FP+ and who travel at lower crowd level times find that FP+ causes them to put more effort into planning than they previously had to do.
I agree, FP+ seems a lot less awful to me in the context of a 10-level crowd day. And for 1- or 2-level days, lines are short enough it doesn't hugely matter, except for the major headliners. It's the 3- to 7-level days that really suffer with it.

Sent from my iPhone using DISBoards
 
I can absolutely understand why those who go at higher crowd level times prefer FP+. The planning, in that case, is quite helpful and helps avoid long waits.

Thank you for recognizing this. When your family includes students and then schoolteachers, there is really no choice but to visit at those busy times. Taking advantage of as many AM EMH as possible, and then booking 3 major attractions at a different park later in the day makes it a lot easier to deal with the crowds.
 
Space/Thunder/Splash, however, were all readily available when we hopped to MK on those visits.

:thumbsup2

As recently as last year over Thanksgiving week, we were able to get paper FP's for Space Mountain as late as 7:30pm. Haunted Mansion never seemed to be more than a 10 minute wait. So like you, we would go to HS or even EP in the mornings (where we could pull multiple FP's), knowing we could still get FP's in MK later that afternoon and early evening.
 
They may no longer be in the queue to ride Peter Pan but now they are just standing outside somewhere waiting for their time to come.

Which I see already. While some do take advantage of other things in the parks, I do see many people sitting around, staring at their phones or watches, just waiting for their next FP+.


I agree, FP+ seems a lot less awful to me in the context of a 10-level crowd day. And for 1- or 2-level days, lines are short enough it doesn't hugely matter, except for the major headliners. It's the 3- to 7-level days that really suffer with it.

Which makes me wonder, if they went to a reservation only, would that be every day, or just the days they expect the crowds to be super high?

My head is spinning.
 
Which makes me wonder, if they went to a reservation only, would that be every day, or just the days they expect the crowds to be super high?

My head is spinning.

That's what I'm curious to see - if maybe the tests at Soarin' and then TSMM where in preparation for the upcoming holiday crowds.

Sort of like a Level 1 (Standby is given a paper pass to come back later) and Level 2 (no standby at all) ride closure that only be used on certain days or when the SB line wait time exceeded a certain value.
 
I completely agree that lower crowd levels are a part of it. I'd say crowds probably averaged a 6 on our trips in 2013 - with a high of probably 8 and a low of maybe 4. March's trip was at the start of spring break season..so not crazy busy, but not dead either. October's trip was for the Tower of Terror 10 milers, which bumped up crowds over the last 3 days of the trip, but the beginning of the trip was lower.

I think one's satisfaction with legacy is pretty directly tied to when you visited. On our trips, headliners at MK were available in the evenings. Now, if it were now would I expect Anna and Elsa and SDMT to be available in the evenings? No..I put those on the level of TSMM, which I never expected in the evening either - that's why we made DHS the morning park and AK the afternoon one. Space/Thunder/Splash, however, were all readily available when we hopped to MK on those visits.

I can absolutely understand why those who go at higher crowd level times prefer FP+. The planning, in that case, is quite helpful and helps avoid long waits.

I can also understand why some of those who don't like FP+ and who travel at lower crowd level times find that FP+ causes them to put more effort into planning than they previously had to do.

Yeah, that's it, blame us TofT 10 miler folk. ;) (Honestly, kidding - there were 10,000+ runners).

I used legacy Christmas week, several years in a row, and never had an issue. Got all the headliners, went at rope drop, and didn't miss a thing I wanted to see or do. I'd bet dollars to donuts that wouldn't happen this Christmas week, because by October 26th, FP+ will be gone for many things. Now for me, it doesn't matter anymore. But for some family staying off-site to have the ultimate Xmas vacation, it just might.
 
I've been told that besides rides there's all sorts of wonderful and exciting forms of entertainment available in the parks at any given moment.

It's an awful lot of people, but I suppose that in World Showcase you could at least get close enough to Canada to hear a chainsaw.
 
Which makes me wonder, if they went to a reservation only, would that be every day, or just the days they expect the crowds to be super high?

My head is spinning.

As I've said before, I think that if there is ever an elimination of standby lines, it will come first at an extremely busy attraction (like TSMM or Soarin) and only at the busiest times of the year. I don't think they really care about standby lines in the 30-60 minute range, but they're looking to do something about the ones that stretch out to 90 minutes and longer.
 
I completely agree that lower crowd levels are a part of it. I'd say crowds probably averaged a 6 on our trips in 2013 - with a high of probably 8 and a low of maybe 4. March's trip was at the start of spring break season..so not crazy busy, but not dead either. October's trip was for the Tower of Terror 10 milers, which bumped up crowds over the last 3 days of the trip, but the beginning of the trip was lower.

I think one's satisfaction with legacy is pretty directly tied to when you visited. On our trips, headliners at MK were available in the evenings. Now, if it were now would I expect Anna and Elsa and SDMT to be available in the evenings? No..I put those on the level of TSMM, which I never expected in the evening either - that's why we made DHS the morning park and AK the afternoon one. Space/Thunder/Splash, however, were all readily available when we hopped to MK on those visits.

I can absolutely understand why those who go at higher crowd level times prefer FP+. The planning, in that case, is quite helpful and helps avoid long waits.

I can also understand why some of those who don't like FP+ and who travel at lower crowd level times find that FP+ causes them to put more effort into planning than they previously had to do.

Our family always travels in June. The past 2 years it has been the 2nd week of June. Maybe not high peak time but no where close to lower crowds. I think our days for the past 2 years have been 8 and 9s. We much prefer the old paper FPs.

I went and looked up my post from June 2013. There was talk on the DIS boards at that time of FP+ coming so I kept close tabs on our FPs our MK day. This is my exact post copied from the thread.

This was for the date of June 12, 2013.
Our family was at MK yesterday and it was pretty crowded and VERY hot!! We were able to get 9 sets of FP and that included 3 for Splash and 3 for BTM. Neither of these rides ran out of FPs until well into the evening. We wondered out loud several times if with the new FP+ we would be able to do the same.

And this was from our morning at MK on June 15, 2013.
Back at mk this morning and had 3 fp by 10:30. Will be able to get a 4th at 11:10.

And just so I'm not accused of making it up. Here is a link to the thread I started on 6-13-13. http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=3126295
 
Yeah, that's it, blame us TofT 10 miler folk. ;) (Honestly, kidding - there were 10,000+ runners). I used legacy Christmas week, several years in a row, and never had an issue. Got all the headliners, went at rope drop, and didn't miss a thing I wanted to see or do. I'd bet dollars to donuts that wouldn't happen this Christmas week, because by October 26th, FP+ will be gone for many things.
Yeah, I'd choose a RD/legacy combo over FP+ in its current form on even the busiest days (sigh). But I can see how some people would prefer FP+ over RD and legacy collecting.

It's an awful lot of people, but I suppose that in World Showcase you could at least get close enough to Canada to hear a chainsaw.
Thank goodness, cuz chainsaws will really ease my FP- and crowd-related stress! :rofl:

Sent from my iPhone using DISBoards
 
Our family always travels in June. The past 2 years it has been the 2nd week of June. Maybe not high peak time but no where close to lower crowds. I think our days for the past 2 years have been 8 and 9s. We much prefer the old paper FPs.

I went and looked up my post from June 2013. There was talk on the DIS boards at that time of FP+ coming so I kept close tabs on our FPs our MK day. This is my exact post copied from the thread.

This was for the date of June 12, 2013.

And this was from our morning at MK on June 15, 2013.

And just so I'm not accused of making it up. Here is a link to the thread I started on 6-13-13. http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=3126295
So your got 9 legacy FP's and got 4 FP+'s a year later? I can't understand what you're complaining about. You had extra time for Hall of Presidents and Country Bear Jamboree!;)
 
So your got 9 legacy FP's and got 4 FP+'s a year later? I can't understand what you're complaining about. You had extra time for Hall of Presidents and Country Bear Jamboree!;)

The 2nd quote in my post was from our 2013 trip also. That morning in MK, we had our 4th paper FP by 11:10 that morning. And all 4 were for Splash or BTMR. Then we hopped to Epcot and got one for TT, had late lunch and then rode. Then hopped to got a FP for ST, saw Muppets (DS loves it), rode ST then hopped back to MK to finish our night. Got on many rides after returning to MK with very short waits, like 15 to 20. Rides like Dumbo, POTC, HM, COP (I just have to COP every year) and was even able to pull a Buzz FP. It was our last day and we were hitting favorites.

You can imagine my DS's excitement when I told him about the new system!!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

PixFuture Display Ad Tag












Receive up to $1,000 in Onboard Credit and a Gift Basket!
That’s right — when you book your Disney Cruise with Dreams Unlimited Travel, you’ll receive incredible shipboard credits to spend during your vacation!
CLICK HERE








New Posts







DIS Facebook DIS youtube DIS Instagram DIS Pinterest DIS Tiktok DIS Twitter

Back
Top