TSM standby-less test Oct. 6-9

[disrev]

Just so we're clear, Disney has been done with the TSM test for 8 days now, right? At this point, the length and direction of this thread makes the standby for A&E on July day seem bearable. Sing it with me everyone... "Let it go, let it go. Don't post here any more. Let it go, let it go. Can a Moderator please close the door?"

 

[surferdave]

Just so we're clear, Disney has been done with the TSM test for 8 days now, right? At this point, the length and direction of this thread makes the standby for A&E on July day. Sing it with me everyone...
"Let it go, let it go.
Don't post here any more.
Let it go, let it go.
Can a Moderator please close the door?"

Anyone who has a trip planned in the immediately foreseeable future should know everything they can about these unannounced tests because it will affect them if they find themselves to be lab rats who paid their own way into the lab when they get to WDW. I think that continuing to discuss it is just as applicable as any other planning topic.

 

[Jennasis]

Just so we're clear, Disney has been done with the TSM test for 8 days now, right? At this point, the length and direction of this thread makes the standby for A&E on July day. Sing it with me everyone...
"Let it go, let it go.
Don't post here any more.
Let it go, let it go.
Can a Moderator please close the door?"

Someone forcing you to read the thread? Have you been kidnapped and forced to participate in threads against your will?? Do need us to contact the authorities?? Tap once for yes and twice for no.

Don't worry, help is on the way!

 

[Laketravis]

Just so we're clear, Disney has been done with the TSM test for 8 days now, right? At this point, the length and direction of this thread makes the standby for A&E on July day seem bearable. Sing it with me everyone... "Let it go, let it go. Don't post here any more. Let it go, let it go. Can a Moderator please close the door?"

On that note, I can never resist the urge to sneak in a little Tom Petty:

Hey! Don't pontificate here no more
Don't pontificate here no more
Whatever you're looking for
Hey! Don't pontificate here no more

I've given up, stop, I've given up, stop
I've given up, stop, on reading any longer
I've given up, on this thread getting longer

Don't pontificate here no more
Don't pontificate here no more
Don't pontificate here no more
Don't pontificate here no more

I don't read you anymore
You darken my door
Whatever you argue for
Hey, don't pontificate here no more

 

[grimley1968]

On that note, I can never resist the urge to sneak in a little Tom Petty:

Hey! Don't pontificate here no more
Don't pontificate here no more
Whatever you're looking for
Hey! Don't pontificate here no more

I've given up, stop, I've given up, stop
I've given up, stop, on reading any longer
I've given up, on this thread getting longer

Don't pontificate here no more
Don't pontificate here no more
Don't pontificate here no more
Don't pontificate here no more

I don't read you anymore
You darken my door
Whatever you argue for
Hey, don't pontificate here no more

Awesome!

 

[mom2mickeyfan]

On that note, I can never resist the urge to sneak in a little Tom Petty:

Hey! Don't pontificate here no more
Don't pontificate here no more
Whatever you're looking for
Hey! Don't pontificate here no more

I've given up, stop, I've given up, stop
I've given up, stop, on reading any longer
I've given up, on this thread getting longer

Don't pontificate here no more
Don't pontificate here no more
Don't pontificate here no more
Don't pontificate here no more

I don't read you anymore
You darken my door
Whatever you argue for
Hey, don't pontificate here no more

Besides, you guys have been doing a good job changing the song in my head today!! Just like changing the radio station! So now it will be "HEY!! Don't come around here no more." Over and over and over.

 

[faneuil]

Besides, you guys have been doing a good job changing the song in my head today!! Just like changing the radio station! So now it will be "HEY!! Don't come around here no more." Over and over and over.

Now the video for that is playing in my head.
Trippy.

 

[FlipHipster]

Wow, long thread. How did the test go?

Depends on who you survey apparently

 

[Planogirl]

Did I hear singing?

This thread truly has it all.

 

[mom2mickeyfan]

Did I hear singing?

This thread truly has it all.

Not sure who was suppose to bring cookies but I'm still waiting.

 

[minnie-apple-mouse]

How about overlapping FP+ times so you could move seamlessly from one to another?

Like these you mean correct? I posted on the other thread as well.

You see things like this, even though a glitch-it's really possible to do the big 3 late in the day in ONE hour. While amazing compared to the past, at least that late in the day-it could lead to a pretty quick tour of that park.

Oh well, it was great while it lasted; I was only able to change one day.



Hopefully it's a sign of things to come.

DD did the same thing just Sunday the night before for the Monday holiday.

Was wonderful as she had to work the morning anyway-just blew her away.

Again-just one hour.

And while "currently" there are bad experiences and limitations of 3, tiers, hopping etc-certainly anyone can see with future expansion this could become quite amazing.

Take the 2 examples above and have one for the late AM, and one the way it is for example-2 different parks if you "purchase" hopping. Or even eventually allow 5 or 6 per day (or more-esp depending on seasons), or 3 for AM and 3 for PM-that will keep guests in the parks "IF" that's what they want.

Or a 4th at a MOD, or a 4th and 5th at a Deluxe or DVC on points. Or a 4th can be purchased on new expansion attractions.

The revenue is there-just need to work out kinks, expand (mostly) and bill smartly IMO.

 

[norybell]

At any given moment at the WDW parks there are probably more people in standby lines than there are actually enjoying attractions, dining, and shopping combined. If we're not in standby lines anymore when they eliminate them, where will we be? Meandering around eating Mickey Bars.

IMO increasing the FP return time window would make a huge difference. Legacy FP lost a lot of appeal for me when Disney started enforcing the return times. If they increased the return window to 2 hours instead of 1 hour I might like FP+ a little more. 1 ride per hour is not enough if they eliminate SB. But if they do go to a reservation only system, they will succeed in dramatically reducing theme park attendance!

I totally agree.

How long does it take to explain completely the current Disney system? What percent of the customers completely understand it? Every time they tweak it more people are confused, and it becomes a burden for so many. Many who do understand are happy, but it appears many more who do not understand, plus many of those who do, are unhappy. At least they have more time to shop and eat.

It is way too complicated. And I bet it gets even more complicated in the future.

By all accounts, the Dumbo "queue-less" queue has been a success. Not so long ago, Disney was touting this as the wave of the future. Expanding that concept would be a positive, you could do other things while waiting (to include shopping and eating as well as some interactive activities).

Best of all, no one would have to be turned away because they didn't have a reservation (I apologize in advance if the previous statement is interpreted as condescending or piling on). They get their virtual place in the line when they walk up and then entertain themselves with other things until it's time to ride instead of weaving back and forth through switchbacks.

At least on its surface, the Dumbo model would seem to be a good compromise between legacy FP and an all FP+ (With no standby option) model.

I think this is totally true...are there any murmurs out there that they might move in this direction? I'd probably prefer a virtual standby to a regular standby, assuming they build enough new spaces to hold all the people in the virtual queue (like the Dumbo tent).

Disney is first in our hearts. But, they aren't the whole world. Universal is stunning, the CMs are universally welcoming, Universal spends their money on the world's best rides, they don't squeeze every last penny out of your pockets, and their express pass system can be explained in 30 seconds.

Disney is wonderful, rich, and a vacation destination. But they are blatantly looking to empty your wallet, and their FP system is a Rube Goldberg machine. Luckily, we know how to not go broke visiting, and we understand the FP+ system, as do many here. So we love our many visits.

The TSMM experiment is just another step in trying to patch up this FP+ system that unfortunately, can't be put back in the box. More to come.

In your experience that was the case, but it wasn't ours.

We've always done DHS/AK as 1/2 days parks...morning at DHS (for TSMM), afternoon at AK. We never had an issue getting FPs at AK (even for KS/EE). Crowd levels decreased dramatically after the parade, and FPs were easily available and for times that were not far out.

Any other hopping we'd do, MK would be the afternoon park. With how many attraction options there are at MK, we never had issues getting FPs there as during our visits FPs rarely ran out for any attraction that we saw, and if it did it wasn't til pretty late anyway.

There would definitely be issues trying to hop TO DHS or Epcot in the afternoon and wanting rides like Soarin/TT - but depending on how you chose to arrange your hopping, legacy did work well

This was our experience, too.

How about overlapping FP+ times so you could move seamlessly from one to another?

The herky, jerky touring style was off putting to put it mildly.

 

[cakebaker]

cakebaker, you are not new here, and you know when you disparage Universal and state that FP+ is better for hopping that you are introducing other arguments into this thread.

That is passive aggressive.

1) Stating that fp+ is better for park hopping is in no way being passive aggressive. That's ludicrous.

2) I don't like Universal. I said so. That's not passive aggressive either.

Perhaps we have a different definition of passive aggressive. If people are so sensitive about Universal that everyone has to like it, then they have the problem not me. I adore WDW. There are people that hate it. I in no way have a problem with them for that. To each their own.

 

[Tarheel girl 1975]

If the goal was to help first-timers figure things out, they could have done that with paper FP. Things they could have done...sent out DVDs explaining how to use it, glossy instruction booklets, magnets for the frig which say "Don't forget about Fastpass or you'll make Dumbo sad!," sent emails, etc.

I would have been ok with that, even if it meant I got less or they ran out earlier.

Because the biggest loss to me is that each day isn't a clean slate anymore.

Back to the standby lines, which is the point of this thread, I wonder if getting rid of standby is necessary at this point for FP+ to work with all of the prebooking going on. Or turning standby into true standby, as someone quoted already on this thread, with no pressure to keep the standby lines at reasonable levels. So this might be something they have to do now to keep up with the prebooking rates. Pandora's box and all that.

I think the bolded sums yup how I feel very well. This is even more so if attractions become FP+ only

You keep posting sarcastic and condescending comments while I have been very polite and still claim that you're being respectful? Maybe you might want to go back and read what I wrote and what you've written back to me and the others who support the standby-less idea throughout this thread.

I think part of the problem with that is that the rides themselves when they are fully staffed can support a certain number of guests per hour. Having FPs spaced out helps motivate guests to arrive earlier so that some of the capacity that a ride can offer can get used instead of being wasted. Either way flexibility is going to be lost. The benefit we get from going more standby-less is the ability to more FP experiences in a day but that has to come at a cost and the cost is flexibility.

I think that is a trade that lot of us are not willing to make. You might be, but I think you are willing to schedule your trip to a degree most people would not like.

By all accounts, the Dumbo "queue-less" queue has been a success. Not so long ago, Disney was touting this as the wave of the future. Expanding that concept would be a positive, you could do other things while waiting (to include shopping and eating as well as some interactive activities).

Best of all, no one would have to be turned away because they didn't have a reservation (I apologize in advance if the previous statement is interpreted as condescending or piling on). They get their virtual place in the line when they walk up and then entertain themselves with other things until it's time to ride instead of weaving back and forth through switchbacks.

At least on its surface, the Dumbo model would seem to be a good compromise between legacy FP and an all FP+ (With no standby option) model.

When we were there, Dumbo only had a 5 minute wait and my kids still want to spend time playing, and theyw eren't the only ones in there.

Park hopping?

That's exactly our main problem with legacy, it didn't allow for park hopping.

Does FP+ work any better for that though? You're still at the mercy of FP+ being available in park #2.

That's why I wish you could pick from two parks straight out of the gate. Like, "I want Soarin' in the morning, but I know I'm going to MK in the evening, so I want Splash then."

No system will be perfect, but for park hopping, I think that may help some guests at least.

On our last trip, we went to MK in the morning and planned to park hop to Epcot in the afternoon. We made FP+ choices for Epcot, but the only thing we really needed a FP+ for was Soarin because of the tiers. We regretted being unable to use FP in MK that morning and felt rushed because we knew we had to make it to Epcot by a certain time. Really made us question the value of park hoppers for our next trip. The only reason we are even considering them is because we will probably want to add the WP&M option anyway.

 

[cakebaker]

On our last trip, we went to MK in the morning and planned to park hop to Epcot in the afternoon. We made FP+ choices for Epcot, but the only thing we really needed a FP+ for was Soarin because of the tiers. We regretted being unable to use FP in MK that morning and felt rushed because we knew we had to make it to Epcot by a certain time. Really made us question the value of park hoppers for our next trip. The only reason we are even considering them is because we will probably want to add the WP&M option anyway.

Understandable- some people just don't like park hopping. Us, on the other hand, won't tour any other way. We leave a morning park either right before or right after lunch. If there are things we miss, we'll catch them when we go back for an afternoon at that park. We don't feel rushed because we don't make a laundry list of have to do things in the mornings.

Our main reason for park hopping is to get a break in the middle of the day. If one doesn't feel the need for that, I can see where park hopping might be a waste of time.

 

[norybell]

Bear with me here, I'm thinking out loud. Would a FP-only, no-more-SB system work if it was something like:

1. A day was divided into chunks of time, maybe 6-hour chunks (9-3 and 3-9)? Or 3-hour chunks if they wanted to be stingier and really spread people out throughout the day.

2. When your FP window opened, you could choose a time slot and a park for a particular day. Let's say I choose the MK from 9-12.

3. You then have the option of selecting from an array of park-specific FP packages. The number of FPs you get depend on the package you choose. So, for a 3-hour chunk of time, maybe the MK Mountain package gives you 3 e-ticket FPs. The MK Family Package gives you 2 e-tickets and 2 d-tickets. The MK Toddler package gives you 1 e-ticket, 2 d-tickets, and 3 c-tickets. The Character Package gives you 3 meet-and-greets. Maybe at DHS there's a Show Package, and Epcot there's a Headliner package with just Soarin' and TT. I'm kind of arbitrarily dividing them up and giving them themes here, but the general point would be that the more e-tickets in your package, the fewer FPs you get.

4. The packages would be included in your ticket price (couldn't charge extra, because I'm not sure they could guarantee availability; it'd still be on the guest to book far enough in advance). But instead of having a specific hour for each FP, you'd be able to use any of your pre-booked FPs in that one three-hour period.

5. In addition to your pre-booked FP package, as soon as you step into a park you're allotted two rolling FPs, valid for anything with availability, similar to the 4th FP now but bookable by app. These rolling FPs could be used outside of your window. (So even after my pre-booked 9:00-12:00 FPs were used up, we could stay in the park and keep booking FPs for whatever was available.)

I have absolutely no idea if anything like this would work out capacity-wise. And it wouldn't necessarily streamline the process. But it's the only thing I can think of that might make me personally be able to deal with an FP-only park.

 

[over50visits]

Food for thought. I only fear that it remains complicated, and that is a problem they have and they are making worse.

One of the complaints we have about the new FP+ is that the rides are separated into individual hour windows.

How about some number of FPs, say 5, all good for any time during a 5 hour period.

No specific rides, you pick what you want. You can only ride a particular ride once during the 5 hour period. That's all the FPs you get for the day, and the 5 hour windows are rolling (your choice).

Simple. You can ride quickly or spread them out. You don't have to plan way in advance, you have some spontaneity left.

For a fee you can buy more FPs. No standby lines.

Hmmm...just thinking out loud here also. Two of the worst parts of the current state of the system are that it is complicated and requires advance commitment. This address both of those.

 

[minnie-apple-mouse]

-it's really possible to do the big 3 late in the day in ONE hour. While amazing compared to the past, at least that late in the day-it could lead to a pretty quick tour of that park.



DD did the same thing just Sunday the night before for the Monday holiday.

Was wonderful as she had to work the morning anyway-just blew her away.

Again-just one hour.

Take the 2 examples above and have one for the late AM, and one the way it is for example-2 different parks if you "purchase" hopping. Or even eventually allow 5 or 6 per day (or more-esp depending on seasons), or 3 for AM and 3 for PM-that will keep guests in the parks "IF" that's what they want.

Or a 4th at a MOD, or a 4th and 5th at a Deluxe or DVC on points. Or a 4th can be purchased on new expansion attractions.

The revenue is there-just need to work out kinks, expand (mostly) and bill smartly IMO.

Bear with me here, I'm thinking out loud. Would a FP-only, no-more-SB system work if it was something like:

1. A day was divided into chunks of time, maybe 6-hour chunks (9-3 and 3-9)? Or 3-hour chunks if they wanted to be stingier and really spread people out throughout the day.

2. When your FP window opened, you could choose a time slot and a park for a particular day. Let's say I choose the MK from 9-12.

3. You then have the option of selecting from an array of park-specific FP packages. The number of FPs you get depend on the package you choose. So, for a 3-hour chunk of time, maybe the MK Mountain package gives you 3 e-ticket FPs. The MK Family Package gives you 2 e-tickets and 2 d-tickets. The MK Toddler package gives you 1 e-ticket, 2 d-tickets, and 3 c-tickets. The Character Package gives you 3 meet-and-greets. Maybe at DHS there's a Show Package, and Epcot there's a Headliner package with just Soarin' and TT. I'm kind of arbitrarily dividing them up and giving them themes here, but the general point would be that the more e-tickets in your package, the fewer FPs you get.

4. The packages would be included in your ticket price (couldn't charge extra, because I'm not sure they could guarantee availability; it'd still be on the guest to book far enough in advance). But instead of having a specific hour for each FP, you'd be able to use any of your pre-booked FPs in that one three-hour period.

5. In addition to your pre-booked FP package, as soon as you step into a park you're allotted two rolling FPs, valid for anything with availability, similar to the 4th FP now but bookable by app. These rolling FPs could be used outside of your window. (So even after my pre-booked 9:00-12:00 FPs were used up, we could stay in the park and keep booking FPs for whatever was available.)

I have absolutely no idea if anything like this would work out capacity-wise. And it wouldn't necessarily streamline the process. But it's the only thing I can think of that might make me personally be able to deal with an FP-only park.

Food for thought. I only fear that it remains complicated, and that is a problem they have and they are making worse.

One of the complaints we have about the new FP+ is that the rides are separated into individual hour windows.

How about some number of FPs, say 5, all good for any time during a 5 hour period.

No specific rides, you pick what you want. You can only ride a particular ride once during the 5 hour period. That's all the FPs you get for the day, and the 5 hour windows are rolling (your choice).

Simple. You can ride quickly or spread them out. You don't have to plan way in advance, you have some spontaneity left.

For a fee you can buy more FPs. No standby lines.

Hmmm...just thinking out loud here also. Two of the worst parts of the current state of the system are that it is complicated and requires advance commitment. This address both of those.

Great conversation. All similar suggestions/expansions off my comments above.

Seeing what the system "could" do.

Still need expansion IMO=or some pretty expensive "add-ons / packages" to accomplish, but why not?

 

[ArwenMarie]

Disney is first in our hearts. But, they aren't the whole world. Universal is stunning, the CMs are universally welcoming, Universal spends their money on the world's best rides, they don't squeeze every last penny out of your pockets, and their express pass system can be explained in 30 seconds.

Disney is wonderful, rich, and a vacation destination. But they are blatantly looking to empty your wallet, and their FP system is a Rube Goldberg machine. Luckily, we know how to not go broke visiting, and we understand the FP+ system, as do many here. So we love our many visits.

The TSMM experiment is just another step in trying to patch up this FP+ system that unfortunately, can't be put back in the box. More to come.

Great comment

As to your last paragraph...you nailed it. Getting rid of standby for some rides might not be something they want to do, but something they find themselves needing to do...

 

[MaryKatesMom]

Like these you mean correct? I posted on the other thread as well.

You see things like this, even though a glitch-it's really possible to do the big 3 late in the day in ONE hour. While amazing compared to the past, at least that late in the day-it could lead to a pretty quick tour of that park.



DD did the same thing just Sunday the night before for the Monday holiday.

Was wonderful as she had to work the morning anyway-just blew her away.

Again-just one hour.

And while "currently" there are bad experiences and limitations of 3, tiers, hopping etc-certainly anyone can see with future expansion this could become quite amazing.

Take the 2 examples above and have one for the late AM, and one the way it is for example-2 different parks if you "purchase" hopping. Or even eventually allow 5 or 6 per day (or more-esp depending on seasons), or 3 for AM and 3 for PM-that will keep guests in the parks "IF" that's what they want.

Or a 4th at a MOD, or a 4th and 5th at a Deluxe or DVC on points. Or a 4th can be purchased on new expansion attractions.

The revenue is there-just need to work out kinks, expand (mostly) and bill smartly IMO.

Those look like back to back FP+ not overlapping. Which is what we did, leaving us with 20 minutes of dead time between FP+.

I like the 3/3hr or 5/5hr idea.

What I had in mind was something like the following:
9:00-10:30 Space
10:00-11:30 BTMRR
11:00-12:30 Buzz

With the 4th being able to add at the end of the 3 hr, in this case Noon.

Making the return window longer would add flexibility and prevent that race across a park.

We had to pick in advance which days we might want to do a water park and then pick FP+ for the evening.