TSM standby-less test Oct. 6-9

[Planogirl]

Indeed, but entitled to my opinion. I just think it's ridiculous that same posters go on and on when we know how they feel. Is anyone going to change anyone elses feelings on this ? I highly doubt it. That's all I was saying.

I agree. In fact I find some of the constant lecturing annoying instead of enlightening.

 

[Planogirl]

Oh well, it was great while it lasted; I was only able to change one day.



Hopefully it's a sign of things to come.

This looks nice but will only further accentuate how little there is to do in a few parks. All of the extra stuff is nice (and some of my favorites are in that category) but not necessarily the reasons why many people pay those high admission prices.

 

[OtherScott]

We're simply batting around theories about what the test could mean for the future.

If I was to guess where this might go (having not read 100+ pages), I'd say FP+ remains with limited number of passes for pre-booking and SB is converted to "day-of virtual queueing" that is available from multiple points within the park.

A guest who formerly chose to get in physical line for TSMM based on posted wait time will now "get in line" via kiosk - and may be able to be in multiple lines simultaneously.

Some people in virtual line will undoubtedly spend money - most likely those for whom return time is too short to ride something else but too long to stand outside building.

This will probably limit day-of changes to pre-book FPs, but water finds its own level.

 

[OtherScott]

Since this is the trip-planning board, maybe you can offer some advice on how to mitigate the negative effects for all the virtual foot-stompers.

Here's just one issue I have -- Like many in my part of the country, I have inlaws in Florida. My father-in-law likes to join us for occasional days at the park but doesn't like to be pinned down to a specific date. All he cared about last time was riding the headliners at Epcot and DHS repeatedly with DH and DD, which he was able to do with rope drop and paper fastpass. How can I make this work under FP+? Do I tell him that joining us for Disney trips just isn't for him?

You can't. He's a man, and we don't change for nothing.

 

[norybell]

I think guests who managed to book airline travel, who book hotels and who figure out how to stay fed have no problem with FP+. .

This is incredibly insulting. I am very computer savvy and have nearly 40 years of WDW trips under my belt. I am fully capable of feeding myself. Yet it took me a ridiculous number of hours to plan FPs for our recent trip, for a mixed-age and mixed-interest group of 10. I would probably be less irritated by it if I was planning for one, or two, or three. But with a large family group, it was a nightmare. And it had the practical effect of splitting our large group into smaller factions (the toddler team and the thrill ride team, essentially), with everyone having to decide 60 days out which group they might want to be a part of for that particular hour months in the future. It led to us all spending way less time together than on any prior trip, which was sad considering none of us live in the same area and only see each other once or twice a year.

The only way an all-FP system would ever remotely work for us would be if it could eventually be as flexible as the old system, so instead of planning in advance, we could walk up to a ride and easily get an FP for it for right away, or an hour later, or some other reasonable timeframe (yes, even for headliners), and then use another FP while we're waiting for the new one. (For example, pick up a BTMRR FP for an hour from now, then walk over to POTC and get an FP for right away, ride that while we wait for BTMRR.) But, sadly, I don't think the math of supply/demand will ever allow a truly flexible all-FP+ system to ever exist. Nor do I trust WDW IT to ever make the app glitch-free and user-friendly enough for it ever to be a smooth and reliable experience (changing FPs on the fly was more trouble than it was worth most of the time on our recent trip).

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[OtherScott]

This is incredibly insulting. I am very computer savvy and have nearly 40 years of WDW trips under my belt. I am fully capable of feeding myself. Yet it took me a ridiculous number of hours to plan FPs for our recent trip, for a mixed-age and mixed-interest group of 10. I would probably be less irritated by it if I was planning for one, or two, or three. But with a large family group, it was a nightmare. And it had the practical effect of splitting our large group into smaller factions (the toddler team and the thrill ride team, essentially), with everyone having to decide 60 days out which group they might want to be a part of for that particular hour months in the future. It led to us all spending way less time together than on any prior trip, which was sad considering none of us live in the same area and only see each other once or twice a year.

The only way an all-FP system would ever remotely work for us would be if it could eventually be as flexible as the old system, so instead of planning in advance, we could walk up to a ride and easily get an FP for it for right away, or an hour later, or some other reasonable timeframe (yes, even for headliners), and then use another FP while we're waiting for the new one. (For example, pick up a BTMRR FP for an hour from now, then walk over to POTC and get an FP for right away, ride that while we wait for BTMRR.) But, sadly, I don't think the math of supply/demand will ever allow a truly flexible all-FP+ system to ever exist. Nor do I trust WDW IT to ever make the app glitch-free and user-friendly enough for it ever to be a smooth and reliable experience (changing FPs on the fly was more trouble than it was worth most of the time on our recent trip).

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Great post. You hit the nail on head with the math about FP flexibility. Had legacy FP been used at any level approaching current FP+ usage, the system would have buckled under the weight.

 

[Laketravis]

I spend enough time as it is planning FP for just three of us with simple and shared interests; I can't imagine having to do it for a party of 10 with assorted ages and interests.

This is incredibly insulting. I am very computer savvy and have nearly 40 years of WDW trips under my belt. I am fully capable of feeding myself. Yet it took me a ridiculous number of hours to plan FPs for our recent trip, for a mixed-age and mixed-interest group of 10. I would probably be less irritated by it if I was planning for one, or two, or three. But with a large family group, it was a nightmare. And it had the practical effect of splitting our large group into smaller factions (the toddler team and the thrill ride team, essentially), with everyone having to decide 60 days out which group they might want to be a part of for that particular hour months in the future. It led to us all spending way less time together than on any prior trip, which was sad considering none of us live in the same area and only see each other once or twice a year.

The only way an all-FP system would ever remotely work for us would be if it could eventually be as flexible as the old system, so instead of planning in advance, we could walk up to a ride and easily get an FP for it for right away, or an hour later, or some other reasonable timeframe (yes, even for headliners), and then use another FP while we're waiting for the new one. (For example, pick up a BTMRR FP for an hour from now, then walk over to POTC and get an FP for right away, ride that while we wait for BTMRR.) But, sadly, I don't think the math of supply/demand will ever allow a truly flexible all-FP+ system to ever exist. Nor do I trust WDW IT to ever make the app glitch-free and user-friendly enough for it ever to be a smooth and reliable experience (changing FPs on the fly was more trouble than it was worth most of the time on our recent trip).

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[Jennasis]

This is incredibly insulting. I am very computer savvy and have nearly 40 years of WDW trips under my belt. I am fully capable of feeding myself. Yet it took me a ridiculous number of hours to plan FPs for our recent trip, for a mixed-age and mixed-interest group of 10. I would probably be less irritated by it if I was planning for one, or two, or three. But with a large family group, it was a nightmare. And it had the practical effect of splitting our large group into smaller factions (the toddler team and the thrill ride team, essentially), with everyone having to decide 60 days out which group they might want to be a part of for that particular hour months in the future. It led to us all spending way less time together than on any prior trip, which was sad considering none of us live in the same area and only see each other once or twice a year.

The only way an all-FP system would ever remotely work for us would be if it could eventually be as flexible as the old system, so instead of planning in advance, we could walk up to a ride and easily get an FP for it for right away, or an hour later, or some other reasonable timeframe (yes, even for headliners), and then use another FP while we're waiting for the new one. (For example, pick up a BTMRR FP for an hour from now, then walk over to POTC and get an FP for right away, ride that while we wait for BTMRR.) But, sadly, I don't think the math of supply/demand will ever allow a truly flexible all-FP+ system to ever exist. Nor do I trust WDW IT to ever make the app glitch-free and user-friendly enough for it ever to be a smooth and reliable experience (changing FPs on the fly was more trouble than it was worth most of the time on our recent trip).

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[mickeyluv'r]

The reason they won't do overlays at WDW is they would have to close down the ride for an extended period of time and a lot of the WDW guests are 1st time visitors who would be disappointed if the ride they were looking forward to was closed for an overlay.
At WDW, however, most of the changes lately been to replace things or remove things. They really haven't added anything new, just fluffed up the pillows on an old attraction

This is more where I was going. WDW visitors don't like when their favorite attractions are closed.

I was also kind if thinking of the Lincoln saying, "You can fool all of the people some of the time, and some of the people some of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time."

Any time WDW changes a classic experience, some will like it and some folks won't. Of the people who object, it is mostly repeat visitors who will be the ones who object. It would be stupid to suggest at folks hate every change WDW has ever made. Truth is, we probably don't even notice most of them. Like when Disney improves lighting, widens a pathway, or revamps a ride motor.

So maybe a majority of folks like the HM changes, I can play that game too - and list PLENTY that had strong mixed reactions:
the balloons in the Land,
Judy Dench vs. J Irons in Spaceship Earth,
adding JS to PotC (some loved, some hated),
no-show dining fees, the DDP,
the new Poly DVC.

Just a few off the top of my head.

The DIS wouldn't exist if folks didn't debate every noticed change made at WDW.

 

[mickeyluv'r]

I much prefer spending 20 minutes at home planning than waste 20 minutes in the park standing in a hot line.

All the hours I plan at home make for a much more pleasant vacation once I'm there.

What about spending 20minutes in the park in a hot line during your vacation at a kiosk with a slow interface, in order to exchange waiting an hour in line in the afternoon for a five hour (maybe?) wait to access the exclusive 15minute-wait-line for an attraction that wasn't one of your priority attractions?

Phew! I was trying to say that simply, but it just isn't simple. Well, simply absurd, yes.

 

[Tarheel girl 1975]

What about spending 20minutes in the park in a hot line during your vacation at a kiosk with a slow interface, in order to exchange waiting an hour in line in the afternoon for a five hour (maybe?) wait to access the exclusive 15minute-wait-line for an attraction that wasn't one of your priority attractions?

Phew! I was trying to say that simply, but it just isn't simple. Well, simply absurd, yes.

Plus, you have no idea what kind FP+ you'll even have once you get to the kiosk. What if your only choices are minor attractions that never even had FP before.

 

[norybell]

Great post. You hit the nail on head with the math about FP flexibility. Had legacy FP been used at any level approaching current FP+ usage, the system would have buckled under the weight.

Thanks. (Though I have to admit I would love nothing more than a mathematician coming on here and proving that a truly flexible all-FP system would, in fact, be possible. But I'm not holding my breath.)

I spend enough time as it is planning FP for just three of us with simple and shared interests; I can't imagine having to do it for a party of 10 with assorted ages and interests.

And despite all the planning, we skipped a whole lot of FPs because they just didn't make sense at the time (even, GASP!, an Anna & Elsa).

We still had a wonderful trip, thankfully, it was just a lot more fragmented than it's been in past years -- I had a wonderful time with my son, my sister had a great time with her daughter, etc. -- FP+ just made it way harder to stick together the way we could in the past.

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[MaryKatesMom]

Plus, you have no idea what kind FP+ you'll even have once you get to the kiosk. What if your only choices are minor attractions that never even had FP before.

Everytime I waited for a 4th FP+ there were only secondary ones and I waited 15 to get a immediate POTC and had to race from Buzz to POTC

And despite all the planning, we skipped a whole lot of FPs because they just didn't make sense at the time (even, GASP!, an Anna & Elsa).



We still had a wonderful trip, thankfully, it was just a lot more fragmented than it's been in past years -- I had a wonderful time with my son, my sister had a great time with her daughter, etc. -- FP+ just made it way harder to stick together the way we could in the past.

We skipped a few ourselves. Hard to know 60 days out it was going to be a beautiful day and we wanted to go the water parks. Those are impossible to plan ahead.

Yes, all of our trips were wonderful too. We were together and not at work, but we saw and did less.

I just cancelled our Christmas trip. We'll go back again when it isn't peak season.

 

[mickeyluv'r]

Since this is the trip-planning board, maybe you can offer some advice on how to mitigate the negative effects for all the virtual foot-stompers.

Here's just one issue I have -- Like many in my part of the country, I have inlaws in Florida. My father-in-law likes to join us for occasional days at the park but doesn't like to be pinned down to a specific date. All he cared about last time was riding the headliners at Epcot and DHS repeatedly with DH and DD, which he was able to do with rope drop and paper fastpass. How can I make this work under FP+? Do I tell him that joining us for Disney trips just isn't for him?

We've had a similar issue. My Dad, who is older now, doesn't have the endurance he once had. He loves knowing everyone else is having fun, and loves enjoying us for dinner. He also remembers when he could zip around the Magic Kingdom all day.

Now he has to play everything half-day by half-day.

It's no longer possible to accommodate his needs at WDW.

Items like: the monorail not running all day all week, computers being "frequently down" (like when we waited 3o+min to get our dinner bill), waiting over an hour past our ADR time twice in one week, and half an hour past our ADR at least twice, and more make trips with him heartbreaking.

A few years back, if he didn't feel up for a given meal, it was no deal at all. We didn't make ADR's, so there was nothing to modify.

Our last trip in 2013 was an exercise in disappointment for him.

 

[mickeyluv'r]

I agree. In fact I find some of the constant lecturing annoying instead of enlightening.

Um, seriously? ...

 

[JennaDeeDooDah]

I agree. I think guests who managed to book airline travel, who book hotels and who figure out how to stay fed have no problem with FP+.

We teach our kids to let others take "firsts" before they take "seconds". Maybe going standby-less can help make sure that more people can get their "firsts" instead of having those people in the same line with people going back for seconds.

To the first part... wow. Personally. I manage to book airline and hotels and am also able to stay fed, yet I do not like FP+. What a rather insulting and completely unnecessary and unfounded thing to say.

As to the second part, I'm looking for clarification. Are you saying it is wrong that some people will ride Soarin' (for example) multiple times before other people get to ride it once? What's wrong with that? Every single visitor at WDW with a park ticket has the same opportunity to ride rides (exceptions, of course, for those who don't meet height requirements). What is wrong with a person getting to the park at rope drop and riding Soarin' first thing, getting in line again, and then having a fast pass for later in the day, all before another person rides? The other person had the same opportunity to get to the park at rope drop and head straight to Soarin'. Maybe he chose to go to Test Track instead. Maybe he chose to sleep in. No matter, though, he had the same opportunity but had different priorities. I don't know where we got the idea that equal opportunity means equal results. That's just not the case.

This is incredibly insulting. I am very computer savvy and have nearly 40 years of WDW trips under my belt. I am fully capable of feeding myself. Yet it took me a ridiculous number of hours to plan FPs for our recent trip, for a mixed-age and mixed-interest group of 10. I would probably be less irritated by it if I was planning for one, or two, or three. But with a large family group, it was a nightmare. And it had the practical effect of splitting our large group into smaller factions (the toddler team and the thrill ride team, essentially), with everyone having to decide 60 days out which group they might want to be a part of for that particular hour months in the future. It led to us all spending way less time together than on any prior trip, which was sad considering none of us live in the same area and only see each other once or twice a year.

The only way an all-FP system would ever remotely work for us would be if it could eventually be as flexible as the old system, so instead of planning in advance, we could walk up to a ride and easily get an FP for it for right away, or an hour later, or some other reasonable timeframe (yes, even for headliners), and then use another FP while we're waiting for the new one. (For example, pick up a BTMRR FP for an hour from now, then walk over to POTC and get an FP for right away, ride that while we wait for BTMRR.) But, sadly, I don't think the math of supply/demand will ever allow a truly flexible all-FP+ system to ever exist. Nor do I trust WDW IT to ever make the app glitch-free and user-friendly enough for it ever to be a smooth and reliable experience (changing FPs on the fly was more trouble than it was worth most of the time on our recent trip).

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Well said.

 

[cabanafrau]

Yes good point. But I think people get wedded to an idea that they cannot move past and they end up ruining their own enjoyment because they place so much stake in getting something specific.

For us, it is the live entertainment we've been enjoying more and more. During our last trip we spent a good bit of time enjoying the British rock band, the band that plays on the streets in the studios, and the African band that plays in Harambe.

I think others have mentioned how a lot of this has to do with what kind of guest you are. I know a lot of guests just buzz through the Oasis at Animal Kingdom instead of seeing it as one of the three main attractions in the park (the other two being the safari and the Asia walk through).

I agree. I think guests who managed to book airline travel, who book hotels and who figure out how to stay fed have no problem with FP+.

We teach our kids to let others take "firsts" before they take "seconds". Maybe going standby-less can help make sure that more people can get their "firsts" instead of having those people in the same line with people going back for seconds.

Following this line of thought to its absurd conclusion one might deem it beyond the bounds to visit a park more than once on a visit to WDW . . . or even return to WDW at all after making a single visit. I realize I didn't major in marketing, but I would think that's gonna make DVC a tough sale.

 

[vacationer1954]

When I use "maybe WDW isn't the place for you", it's generally directed at those who refuse to do anything to mitigate the negative effects they feel fp+ has. Virtually stomping your feet and demanding it change won't solve a thing.

That's true. As long as we're still going to Disney we're still telling them they're doing it right.

Do I tell him that joining us for Disney trips just isn't for him?

I remember telling my mother that. When I invited to come with us, my brothers and all the kids, she jumped at the idea and then started placing conditions on Disney. No long lines. No expensive food. No burning sunshine. No very loud movie presentations. We eventually decided together that she would have a great time sharing breakfast and dinner with us, which we cooked together as a family in our timeshare, and then relaxing by the pool at the resort while the rest of us went to the parks and struggled through all these terrible things. It was great. The little ones would be so happy to rush back to the timeshare to tell Grandma about all the wonderful things they did during the day.

The only way an all-FP system would ever remotely work for us would be if it could eventually be as flexible as the old system

I'm confused. Was the comment insulting because it was in favor of changes that you didn't like or were you replying to some other comment?

To the first part... wow. Personally. I manage to book airline and hotels and am also able to stay fed, yet I do not like FP+.

We were talking about the ability to do it not whether people liked it. I think it is clear who doesn't like the standby-less idea. Some of us like it. Some of us don't. I think people who don't like the idea are trying to find insult in what people who do like the idea are saying, and are posting things that can be taken as insulting in return like mickeyluv'r's comment to cakebaker a while back. I don't think anyone is insulting anyone. We're discussing what we like or don't like about this standby-less idea.

Are you saying it is wrong that some people will ride Soarin' (for example) multiple times before other people get to ride it once?

I'm saying it is fair and good to change things to allow more people to get FP+ for attractions in advance.

 

[mom2rtk]

I was merely saying that Disney does a great job providing easy to use user interfaces that anyone can easily navigate.

You keep saying that. But it doesn't make it so.

 

[lugnut33]

You keep saying that. But it doesn't make it so.

That is the first time I've ever seen a compliment for Disney IT on these boards. Bravo Disney IT, you are turning it around.